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Post by rafk on Oct 10, 2016 8:53:16 GMT
In desperation, Blue creates a vision of Boxbot and even Jeanne recoils at its terribleness, giving the gang an opening. It is now the perfect time for this to come true. Come on, Tom! |
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Post by Daedalus on Oct 11, 2016 17:08:48 GMT
In desperation, Blue creates a vision of Boxbot and even Jeanne recoils at its terribleness, giving the gang an opening. It is now the perfect time for this to come true. Come on, Tom! Hey, we've finally reached page 100 on this thread! PARTY PARTY PARTY!! |
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Post by Nepycros on Oct 12, 2016 14:27:58 GMT
Mostly unrelated, but has there been any discussion on Smitty's training or lack thereof?
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Oct 12, 2016 15:45:52 GMT
Mostly unrelated, but has there been any discussion on Smitty's training or lack thereof? Smitty went through Jones' medium training, but I think is all we've seen in comic. Who needs training when you've got luck? |
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Post by Daedalus on Oct 12, 2016 15:55:39 GMT
Mostly unrelated, but has there been any discussion on Smitty's training or lack thereof? Smitty went through Jones' medium training, but I think is all we've seen in comic. Who needs training when you've got luck? We've learned something valuable here, though. His luck does not (it seems) protect against rage-ghosts with swords. |
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Post by jda on Oct 12, 2016 16:23:05 GMT
Smitty went through Jones' medium training, but I think is all we've seen in comic. Who needs training when you've got luck? We've learned something valuable here, though. His luck does not (it seems) protect against rage-ghosts with swords. Doesnt protect OTHERS. It would be immensely depressing, but there's an scenario where Smitty walks away unharmed over the bodies of all his fallen friends. |
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Post by Daedalus on Oct 12, 2016 16:23:41 GMT
We've learned something valuable here, though. His luck does not (it seems) protect against rage-ghosts with swords. Doesnt protect OTHERS. It would be immensely depressing, but there's an scenario where Smitty walks away unharmed over the bodies of all his fallen friends. Why you do this, brother? |
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Post by jda on Oct 12, 2016 16:49:32 GMT
Doesnt protect OTHERS. It would be immensely depressing, but there's an scenario where Smitty walks away unharmed over the bodies of all his fallen friends. Why you do this, brother? To show HIS true colors: All this charade has been Smitty's plan to get rid of all the young competition for Power. His affinity to Order makes him the perfect Court ruler. (TA DA DAAAAAAAAAAA) |
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Post by jda on Oct 12, 2016 16:52:04 GMT
Dune, anyone?
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Post by TBeholder on Oct 12, 2016 17:53:11 GMT
All this charade has been Smitty's plan to get rid of all the young competition for Power. His affinity to Order makes him the perfect Court ruler. (TA DA DAAAAAAAAAAA) Alas, he won't need to. |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Oct 13, 2016 14:12:28 GMT
Has it ever been proven that Smitty's powers actually manipulate events in his favor rather than just manipulating them towards unlikely results?
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Post by dramastix on Oct 21, 2016 20:22:39 GMT
New wildspec: Jeanne notices when the green light comes out, stops fighting Parley, pulls a knife out of her robes and throws it at Kat, who doesn't die, but finally ascends to become the Angel (who can yank Annie and Green Dude out of the arrow as easily as she likes).
Yeah, I don't actually think that's how it's going to play out either, but it'd be one hell of a scene.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 22:38:16 GMT
Has it ever been proven that Smitty's powers actually manipulate events in his favor rather than just manipulating them towards unlikely results? Smitty's powers are not described in enough detail to prove much of anything. Parley says they make everything "boring," and Jones says they allow him to "subconsciously create order where there was none." As they're "subconscious," we do see a number of instances where Smitty doesn't use them intentionally and doesn't seem to actually benefit from the result (such as putting the deck of cards in order, putting the puzzle sphere together). However, there are also indications that he has some level of control over them, such as when he describes to Annie why he doesn't try to bring Parley back early from training. That explanation also seems to indicate that the powers do actually manipulate events towards a specific goal, not just towards unlikely results, but that goal won't always be what Smitty would consciously evaluate as a good outcome. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Oct 21, 2016 22:49:11 GMT
New wildspec: Jeanne notices when the green light comes out, stops fighting Parley, pulls a knife out of her robes and throws it at Kat, who doesn't die, but finally ascends to become the Angel (who can yank Annie and Green Dude out of the arrow as easily as she likes). Yeah, I don't actually think that's how it's going to play out either, but it'd be one hell of a scene. Something fractures the Mecha Angel's skull ( as seen by Zimmy), and Jeanne seems to be the most likely candidate to make it happen, but it doesn't fit Jeanne's fighting style. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Oct 22, 2016 0:53:15 GMT
Topic shifted to Wildspec thread. Side note: Since Jeanne's sword cut those threads then yes, the Tooth can also almost certainly cut them, maybe in more interesting ways. I wonder if the user has to be able to visualize, or at least conceive of the strings in order to cut them. If it were just a matter of slicing through all physical and etheric entities, then aren't there millions of invisible pixies dying every time Coyote's Tooth is swung? They might not even exist YET, but become real because a human thought of them in the future. Pixiecide is a very real concern. I had to think about that one for a while. If the Gunnerverse has a story-based reality, not quite subjective or objective but leaning towards subjective, and depends on observers (even if they are distant from each other in time) then the key factor is if there are millions of invisible/microscopic pixies that can be interacted with. You may know that bacteria exist but can't see them or the effects of cutting them; they can infect you or grow on surfaces and they leave endotoxins when they expire, so they can be part of a story therefore you can cut them. However, motion of air and water will probably carry most of them away from the cutting edge, which is probably veeeeeeeery tiny. Add magnification and a reducing machine to make your movements with the knife subtle enough and you can even surgically alter a micro-organism. So, the key point becomes if the millions of invisible pixies exist or no. If they interact with anyone or anything at any point in the Gunnerverse then yes, you may be killing a few any time you draw the Tooth or wave it around. If they remain intangible and invisible for all time then they may have some existence among themselves but you can never know about them or their fate and in the non-objective Gunnerverse they only exist in the most limited of senses if at all, and nobody will ever know about them anyway. Since the objective/subjective thing seems to operate on a continuum depending on how close to the ether you are then a "yes" to that question of existence becomes more or less affirmative based on where you are when you swing the Tooth around. But I am unsure that these hypothetical pixies would be any more or less dead from the Tooth than from accidents with any other sort of magic blade. Or anything else that moves, really. My main concern with pixiecide is that it should be completely safe for home and garden use. Regarding Smitty: He knows about his powers even if he doesn't know he has "threads." Thought experiment: Suppose that you travel back in time before Smitty's powers were in the comic and before they even manifested in the Gunnerverse story. Then you gave the Tooth to a beautician and paid him/her to give young Smitty a full-body shave/taper plus mani-pete. Assuming you could roofie Smitty enough to undergo this procedure, didn't tell him the Tooth would be used, erased your existence from the Gunnerverse irreversibly before the procedure started but leaving those "uncaused causes" intact, and that Smitty survives without anything horrible happening, the Tooth should still cut all his "threads" because he and other people WILL know about his powers. Since that wouldn't remove his powers it appears that unless you can also manipulate the threads (thus channeling Smitface's powers into something they weren't going to do) I believe they would heal or otherwise come back. He would still be remotely manipulating reality so that order can be spontaneously created at some exciting point in the future story... though the things might not be ordered as soon or in the exact same way if the threads had been left uncut. It is possible that Smitty's powers could be "detached" in the same way Antimony's fire did but I think you'd have to do more with the Tooth than cut his threads. The same principle would apply to a thread getting severed accidentally. However, the readers only know what appears in the story, unless it so happens that the severing of a thread, say, by Jeanne, leads to some sort of encounter never happening and the resulting order not being created and that is hinted at in the comic. Or in other words, since the author of the comic knows about Smitty's powers the same thing would still happen. |
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 6, 2016 7:02:51 GMT
My interpretation of Annie's nature: - elemental + human is a symbiotic relationship, two beings fused into one - elemental part is siphoned/transferred off to the child when the time comes - replaces/overwrites part of the human soul or something - what's left of the human soul after the transfer isn't enough to survive, parent dies shortly after process completes - elemental entity can apparently act autonomously when separated from host And adding on to that, another theory about the Omega Device, not sure if it's been thought up yet since this site's search is beyond clumsy: - it apparently has something to do with Surma's pregnancy- Anthony, normally stoic, was apparently desperate to find a scientific explanation of what was happening / had happened to Surma - while not even remotely caring about her when he was younger - seriously how long was she dating James for - upon failure, did not return to the court and instead was sent to "research" said device, as if the court had nothing else useful for him to do for the time being - Annie was encouraged to go to the court by Surma (was "her wish") - the court really really wants to keep Annie on a leash, to the point of bringing back some loser failure from the brink of death and nursing him back to health The Omega Device is intended to intercept the transfer of the elemental entity from parent to child. Once the power of the elemental is harnessed, it can be used and abused for humanly things. Sounds like something the court would cook up. What I'm not too sure of is how they could have gotten Tony+Surma aboard. That and if Anthony's story in that chapter has cover woven into it or not and/or leaves many things out. |
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Post by keef on Nov 6, 2016 14:26:57 GMT
My interpretation of Annie's nature: - elemental + human is a symbiotic relationship, two beings fused into one - elemental part is siphoned/transferred off to the child when the time comes - replaces/overwrites part of the human soul or something - what's left of the human soul after the transfer isn't enough to survive, parent dies shortly after process completes - elemental entity can apparently act autonomously when separated from host I agree 100% with your description of Annie's nature, butI don't think that is what Anthony says. He researched both the device, and Surma's pregnancy. The only thing you can conclude from that, is that apparently the device is something that can be of interest to a surgeon, or at least something that can be researched by a M.D.He fell in love with her, that can happen pretty quickly. She was a beautiful woman. And she asked him for help, maybe awakening his chivalrous nature  My interpretation: He kept researching the device, we don't know how successful he was with that. But he also researched the Guides, and when he couldn't find them with his normal means, tried to escape the Court's eye and went awol. Absolutely, and the most interesting thing is the threat they used: "to banish her from the court and the program". What program? Why is this so important to Anthony? For the moment I guess the omega device is something the Court needs to " become god", or just a red herring. |
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Post by bgb16999 on Nov 10, 2016 4:31:19 GMT
The following is some spitballing about Anthony's motivations. More specifically, what leverage is the Court using to keep Anthony in place?
When I first read chapter 53 (just last week for me, since I read the whole thing for the first time last week), my first impression was that the Court had withheld a lot of information from Tony about what they were supposedly going to do to Antimony. In particular, I think he did not realize that Annie was the forest medium. They told him she was going into the forest (which Anthony knows is normally against school rules), but not that she was actually allowed to go. Had the Court expelled Annie right before graduation, then, as far as Anthony knew, Annie would have been forced out into the muggle world as a homeless high school dropout with an uncertain future. If that were the case, I could see Anthony's decision to return as a genuine act of love for his daughter.
However, we know, and the Court knows, that expelling Annie is an empty threat. Were the Court to expel her, it would be a loss for them on pretty much every level. Annie would go live in the forest full time, and the Court would lose what control over her they still have. Annie would still get to see Kat and the others by virtue of being the forest medium. Also, Reynardine might decide to go live in the forest with Annie instead of staying in the Court with Kat. The Court seems particularly afraid of Rey "escaping" to the forest. They could try to physically stop him, but whether they could stop Reynard from escaping when he is aided by both Annie and Kat is a crapshoot, and the Court knows it. If Coyote ever decides to retire Annie from the position of Forest Medium, she can still find work as an afterlife guide, and visit Kat and co every time someone steps on a bug.
Hence, there is a flaw in my conjecture that Anthony was just looking out for Annie's well-being: now that he is back at the Court, Anthony knows the threat was empty too. Okay, maybe he doesn't know about Annie's potential career as an afterlife guide. But he knows she has a place in the world outside the Court. Which brings us back to the original question. Now that Anthony is back at the Court and knows more about Annie's situation, what incentive does Anthony have to remain?
One possibility is that they can threaten to expel someone else Tony cares about. I don't think this scenario is all that likely, though. The only other people at the Court Anthony has been shown to care about at all are Anja and Donald. If Anthony were only concerned about their well-being, he might not be compelled by the threat of the Donlans getting kicked out. If forced into the muggle world, Anja could easily support her family with a career in computer science. As could Kat, for that matter. They might even be happier without being constantly manipulated by the Court.
Also, the Court's primary means of influencing Annie is by manipulating other people she cares about. Removing two of the people closest to Annie from the picture would reduce the Court's ability to control Annie. And they know it.
Hence, I believe that there are two main reasons Anthony might still be in the Court, and either or both could be true. The first of these reasons is mental inertia. When he was away, he felt like he didn't want to come back. But now that he is at the Court, leaving requires more mental energy than staying in the same situation he is already in.
The second reason is that he wants more than merely keeping Annie and himself safe. Whatever Coyote meant by "Man's effort to become God," Tony wants in on it. And he wants Annie in on it with him. This possibility is one in which I would have considerably less sympathy for Tony than I would otherwise.
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Post by warrl on Nov 10, 2016 7:01:30 GMT
He might not have figured that out immediately.
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Post by todd on Nov 10, 2016 12:37:09 GMT
I've read one theory that the reason why Anthony surrendered Reynardine so quickly to Annie (just a few panels) was because he'd realized he'd been used by the Court (especially after Coyote's visit).
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Post by bgb16999 on Nov 10, 2016 13:57:36 GMT
He might not have figured that out immediately. He might not have known immediately (and he probably didn't IMO), but by now he probably knows she is welcome in the forest. He doesn't necessarily know about everything else, though. By the way, anyone else find it suspicious that Anthony could disable all the surveillance in his house? Given that Tony and his friends were able to launch spaceships when they were kids, it seems perfectly plausible (likely, even) that he is fully capable of finding and disabling any technological devices the Court has put in his house. But it seems equally likely that the Court would know about Anthony's technical skills. So why would they put a tracking device in his house if they knew he could disable it? One possibility is that they were counting on Anthony's loyalty to not disable it, or they were counting on his fear of repercussions. There is another possibility, however. I conjecture that Anthony's house contained both a technological surveillance device and an etheric surveillance device/spell. The non-etheric devices were decoys which the Court expected Anthony to find and disable. With the surveillance that Tony knows about gone, he will feel free to speak and act in ways he wouldn't if he thought the Court were watching him. The Court also knows that Anthony is largely ignorant of how etheric power works, so they can count on him not finding it. If my conjecture is true, then Reynard may already know from the time he spent in Tony's house. I'm imagining a scenario in which Anthony tries to have a "private" conversation with Annie. Tony: Annie, I need to speak with you about something important, in my house. Don't worry, I disabled all surveillence devices here. Annie: Um, dad? There's an active scrying spell right next to your head. How do you not see it? |
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 16, 2016 21:34:15 GMT
That's in character. This oh so humble hubris of oh so clever Tony. He was just as confident that the boss was negotiating with him seriously - at least until being literally thrown to the dogs. I conjecture that Anthony's house contained both a technological surveillance device and an etheric surveillance device/spell. Which Annie wouldn't immediately notice during that blinker peeking foray? |
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Post by bedinsis on Nov 17, 2016 20:02:09 GMT
I have some speculation that I don't really believe in, but the title of the thread is WILD speculation so:
The court intended to pick Annie as their medium. They fully intended to mention her name as their intended medium, despite how unruly she had become, though they were hesitant in this choice. Then Smitty's luck interfered, the part of him that wanted the position made the principal state the biggest arguments against her getting the position of medium, and giving it to the person next in line, which would be Smitty.
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Post by bgb16999 on Nov 17, 2016 23:59:27 GMT
That's in character. This oh so humble hubris of oh so clever Tony. He was just as confident that the boss was negotiating with him seriously - at least until being literally thrown to the dogs. I conjecture that Anthony's house contained both a technological surveillance device and an etheric surveillance device/spell. Which Annie wouldn't immediately notice during that blinker peeking foray? When Annie was watching Tony and Donald, her etheric powers were at their weakest point, and she wasn't actually present, so she might not have noticed an etheric surveillance device, particularly a hidden one. Alternatively, maybe Annie did notice, and just hasn't told Anthony. Or, ya know, I could be totally wrong. |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Nov 18, 2016 10:45:56 GMT
the part of him that wanted the position made the principal state the biggest arguments against her getting the position of medium, and giving it to the person next in line, which would be Smitty. Why do you think Smitty's powers care about what Smitty wants? |
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Post by bgb16999 on Nov 19, 2016 2:16:52 GMT
It wouldn't be very lucky otherwise, I suspect.
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Post by Druplesnubb on Nov 19, 2016 10:58:14 GMT
Smitty's power isn't really "luck", though. It's more like causing extremely improbable things to happen.
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Post by keef on Nov 20, 2016 22:42:59 GMT
I wonder if William Winsbury is second-generation forest folk? I suspect that his mother was a fairy who became human, like Red. Maybe his father was an animal who became human, or both his parents were first-generation forest folk. - From the beginning Winsbury’s hair, sometimes his teeth, and definitely his personality, reminds me of Red. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=18 www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=325- Although Winsbury has mellowed (thanks to Janet, getting older, and Janet), his hair and basic personality have remained consistent from Chapter 2. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1387- Everyone in Queslet has a talent, but I don’t recall Winsbury’s talent being revealed yet. Maybe second-generation forest folk are automatically accepted into the school and go to Queslett or Thornhill if they are mostly normal. - Maybe Janet is interested in Winsbury partially because her father would hate him for being second-generation forest folk. Not sure if anyone else has made this observation (my Google-fu is not very strong). This hit me during a reread, but it seems to fit better under speculation. I also don’t want to necro this thread. gunnerkrigg.proboards.com/thread/1719/william-margo-johnI just noticed Tom's comment here: "Winsbury spent a lot of time camping with his folks." Just another confirmation of your theory. |
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Post by calpal on Nov 21, 2016 1:53:49 GMT
New wildspec: Jeanne notices when the green light comes out, stops fighting Parley, pulls a knife out of her robes and throws it at Kat, who doesn't die, but finally ascends to become the Angel (who can yank Annie and Green Dude out of the arrow as easily as she likes). Yeah, I don't actually think that's how it's going to play out either, but it'd be one hell of a scene. Something fractures the Mecha Angel's skull ( as seen by Zimmy), and Jeanne seems to be the most likely candidate to make it happen, but it doesn't fit Jeanne's fighting style. Huh, something else I've noticed - and not entirely sure that it'll lead anywhere in particular, but I digress... Kat's etheric appearance keeps changing in slight ways, anyone else notice this? First it was Zimmy's sighting (as linked by Jelly Jellybean), then there was the ship appearance, then there's the first Annie appearance in the Jeanne and The Other Shore chapters going on now. Couldn't help but notice that the appearance alters slightly from one time to the next, mostly in regards to the piece that is on top of (what I assume is) her forehead. In fact, the latest appearance of hers seems to have what looks like a syringe needle on her head. Part of me wants to question whether Tom has a hard time consistently drawing Etheric Kat's appearance consistently - which given the complexity of the design, I wouldn't blame him - or if we're being given hints or some other symbolism in the changes of her design? |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Nov 21, 2016 2:09:37 GMT
I just noticed Tom's comment here: "Winsbury spent a lot of time camping with his folks." Just another confirmation of your theory. Raised by jerks, it is a wonder that Winsbury turned out so well. Huh, something else I've noticed - and not entirely sure that it'll lead anywhere in particular, but I digress... Kat's etheric appearance keeps changing in slight ways, anyone else notice this? First it was Zimmy's sighting (as linked by Jelly Jellybean), then there was the ship appearance, then there's the first Annie appearance in the Jeanne and The Other Shore chapters going on now. Couldn't help but notice that the appearance alters slightly from one time to the next, mostly in regards to the piece that is on top of (what I assume is) her forehead. In fact, the latest appearance of hers seems to have what looks like a syringe needle on her head. Part of me wants to question whether Tom has a hard time consistently drawing Etheric Kat's appearance consistently - which given the complexity of the design, I wouldn't blame him - or if we're being given hints or some other symbolism in the changes of her design? Maybe it reflects Kat's uncertainty about herself, and when she understands what she is becoming, her final form may be more consistent. |
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