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Post by arcuna on Oct 19, 2015 17:25:19 GMT
Is it just me, or is Annie's hair sticking out a bit more like it used to? EDIT: Come to think of it, did this maybe already start in the third panel of last Wednesday's post? |
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Post by The Anarch on Oct 19, 2015 18:05:28 GMT
We are still right in the middle of Annie's emotional issues. It just takes some time. Little Annie, she's in the middle of the ride. Everything . . . everything will be just fine. Everything . . . everything will be all right. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Oct 19, 2015 18:11:03 GMT
Also I see a bit of mirroring here. Anthony cut off his own hand to get a chance to get Surma back. Ysengrin let Annie char his arm so that she could get herself back. Point to Ysengrin. Oh, that's beautiful. I didn't realize that, nicely spotted. |
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Post by stevecharb on Oct 19, 2015 18:13:07 GMT
It will be a gradual process, yes, but this is definitely the page that shows How Antimony Got Her Groove Back
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Post by setrain on Oct 19, 2015 19:37:54 GMT
I'm getting distracted wondering what pronouns to use for rabbit kid. Like I don't really have an easy time believing something like that could change gender identity but I guess they could be a trans boy rabbit in the first place and that was part of the motivation. Alternatively they could turn out not to have known what they were bargaining for and eventually transition to female as a human. I bet Court technology would really help with the physical aspects. Or just use Andrew somehow.
I really want one of these things to be true.
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Post by aline on Oct 19, 2015 19:48:27 GMT
I'm getting distracted wondering what pronouns to use for rabbit kid. I'm going with "he". Mainly because the rabbit's answer to Annie when she mentioned the sex-change obligation was "I don't care".
I think all this gender stuff is most constraining when you have all those social expectations associated to it (wear skirts or do not, play with dolls or with cars, and so on). And social expectations in general is something the forest people seem to be blissfully unaware of. On top of that, the Court itself is a subculture that isn't all that conservative either, as Reynard explained to Kat when she started going out with Paz. So all in all, I think our rabbit friend keeps not caring about being a boy now. And if it ever bothers him, I'm pretty sure he'll let people know without as much as an afterthought. With a cute smile on top.
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Post by setrain on Oct 19, 2015 19:59:02 GMT
I'm getting distracted wondering what pronouns to use for rabbit kid. I'm going with "he". Mainly because the rabbit's answer to Annie when she mentioned the sex-change obligation was "I don't care".
I think all this gender stuff is most constraining when you have all those social expectations associated to it (wear skirts or do not, play with dolls or with cars, and so on). And social expectations in general is something the forest people seem to be blissfully unaware of. On top of that, the Court itself is a subculture that isn't all that conservative either, as Reynard explained to Kat when she started going out with Paz. So all in all, I think our rabbit friend keeps not caring about being a boy now. And if it ever bothers him, I'm pretty sure he'll let people know without as much as an afterthought. With a cute smile on top.
There's a lot more than gender roles and presentation there. It's hard to explain what but it's there. Lots of trans people don't even change those sorts of behaviors much. I can't explain what the difference is, but it matters and I'm kind of wary of media that adds to the impression that social expectations are all there is. That said, the argument that rabbit kid would declare their gender like it was no big deal because of forest upbringing does make sense. I'm just not sure how realistic it is if they really don't care and I trust Gunnerkrigg Court to be realistic about that sort of thing. I'm not really sure what I expect. |
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corvis
Junior Member
"I like this place and could gladly waste my time in it."
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Post by corvis on Oct 19, 2015 20:23:02 GMT
Sure, Annie probably doesn't need her stone anymore, but I'm wondering what Ysengrin meant to do by crushing it? I'm also remembering that it was one of the last things we had to remember Mort by....sigh....
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Post by l33tninja on Oct 19, 2015 20:46:00 GMT
Sure, Annie probably doesn't need her stone anymore, but I'm wondering what Ysengrin meant to do by crushing it? I'm also remembering that it was one of the last things we had to remember Mort by....sigh.... I think Ysengrin was using a little shock therapy to try to snap Annie out of her self wallowing and get her moving in a positive direction.
Plus, we can always remember Mort whenever you do this (quadruple guns, aw yeah).
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Post by csj on Oct 19, 2015 22:55:21 GMT
:3
:3 :3 :3 :3
:3
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Post by Daedalus on Oct 19, 2015 23:06:16 GMT
Sure, Annie probably doesn't need her stone anymore, but I'm wondering what Ysengrin meant to do by crushing it? I'm also remembering that it was one of the last things we had to remember Mort by....sigh.... Yeah, he's not a very subtle wolf. Annie may have needed a shock to snap her out of her current state, but it would have been better for the stone to survive. However, it's possible that the physical destruction of the stone was etherically necessary for this to happen (since the elemental seemed to have been formed around it)... |
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Post by Daedalus on Oct 19, 2015 23:06:56 GMT
I'm getting distracted wondering what pronouns to use for rabbit kid. I'm going with "he". Mainly because the rabbit's answer to Annie when she mentioned the sex-change obligation was "I don't care". I'm going with "he" until Tom gives us an indication either way. |
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Post by mithrandir on Oct 19, 2015 23:26:43 GMT
Sure, Annie probably doesn't need her stone anymore, but I'm wondering what Ysengrin meant to do by crushing it? I'm also remembering that it was one of the last things we had to remember Mort by....sigh.... Yeah, he's not a very subtle wolf. Annie may have needed a shock to snap her out of her current state, but it would have been better for the stone to survive. However, it's possible that the physical destruction of the stone was etherically necessary for this to happen (since the elemental seemed to have been formed around it)... Anja Donlan once said that "some people can develop their psychic abilities to the point where they don't need the stone". There's no question that Antimony is such a person, at least when whole, and Ysengrin may have decided that she should graduate beyond the blinker stone as well (note his reference to it as a "child's toy"). |
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Post by arf on Oct 20, 2015 1:28:19 GMT
Sure, Annie probably doesn't need her stone anymore, but I'm wondering what Ysengrin meant to do by crushing it? I'm also remembering that it was one of the last things we had to remember Mort by....sigh.... I think Annie was using it to contain her more flamboyant side, as suggested here. Hmm. Looking at panel 2, I wonder if young Bun is able to dampen Annie's fire; somewhat like Gamma does with Zimmy. See what happens when he lets go of her. |
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Post by nero on Oct 20, 2015 2:31:57 GMT
It looks like Smitty is puzzled that the rabbit kid was able to snap Annie out of it. Then he seems to be silently thanking Ysengrin in the next panel.
Perhaps the reason Eglamore and Parley weren't invited was because they would interfere before Annie could face this test.
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Post by TBeholder on Oct 20, 2015 3:14:31 GMT
I like how Smitty doesn't even shrug, just exchanges looks with 'Grin. So... Annie is not in a shape to resist being dragged away by cute kid.  Ysengrin that must sting like heck, dude. Not sure about that - it's not his real appendage, after all. Also I see a bit of mirroring here. Anthony cut off his own hand to get a chance to get Surma back. Ysengrin let Annie char his arm so that she could get herself back. Point to Ysengrin. Ha, he did. Subtle. Speaking of cookies... It doesn't even look like he's getting burned at all, except where Annie tries to claw away his wooden hand Anyone else feeling all warm and fuzzy inside because of the bunny No. I ate fish today (sorry).  |
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Post by darththulhu on Oct 20, 2015 4:28:58 GMT
I'm getting distracted wondering what pronouns to use for rabbit kid. Like I don't really have an easy time believing something like that could change gender identityWhy not? They change species identity and no one bats an eyelash. However much ethereal imprint they retain of their animal life, they are now permanently biological humans, with Zero identity confusion about that fact. Their chromosome count is different, their sensory systems are different, their skeleton is different, their musculature is different, their skin growth is different, and their entire genome is different. Heck, every aspect of their sexual cycle is also different (goodbye estrus and mating-season-only male desire and utter disinterest the rest of the time, hello constant capacity for romantic interest). Literally everything about their biology is different, too-cute hairstyles and ethereal echoes notwithstanding. They are now expected to identify as ethereally-gifted human students, not residents of Gillitie. They outright Lose Their Names and will eventually receive New Names. They are firmly creatures of the Court, such that people like Ysengrin consider them outright traitors to their prior animal identity. Compared to all of that impossible stuff before breakfast, magically having an entirely new set of (not-yet-)sexual urges and understandings of one's gender is The Smallest of Small Potatoes. Their entire cortex and every aspect of their body is now completely different. Their brain structures, their whole endocrine system, their gonads, their every biological detail, are all vat-grown over years to the Court's pre-desired and exactingly-pre-specified specifications, and whatever magic went into having a Name is also scoured down to a blank slate. If the Court can somehow ultra-tech and magic it up to drive "doesn't actually feel human" failure rates down to 0%, and drive "doesn't actually feel Nameless" failure rates down to 0%, then driving "doesn't actually feel male" failure rates down to 0% shouldn't be hard at all. The Court tech for all this is supposed to feel horrifying and creepily-utopian and fundamentally transgressive, not comforting and wholesome and natural. Arbitrarily coercing a permanent gender-identity swap is truly the least of it. Why are you trying to make the process somehow more comforting? Are any of them going to transition back to a mating-season dependent sex drive? Are any of them going to transition back to self-adopting their old Name? Are any of the fish and reptiles and birds going to transition back to scales and fertilizing already-laid eggs? Are any of them going to transition back to their previous sensory suite? Since the answer to all of that is almost certainly "Nope", why would any of them hold their previous conception of gender? Again: why? This makes no logical sense, given the extreme and excessively totalizing nature of the Court transformation process. Don't want every single aspect of your biology and self-conception permanently warped as part of becoming a young human student of the Court? Then don't ask for access to the Court's process to become a vat-grown human on the Court's terms. |
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zirka
Full Member
I have become one with my anime and appear in backgrounds looking confused
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Post by zirka on Oct 20, 2015 4:57:17 GMT
darththulhu - Slow clap for you because of how impressed I am that you stated what I feel so clearly. The experience of being a female bunny is so alien to being any kind of human, that it really wouldn't matter if that human is male or female. Serious things aside, I kinda ship Bunny with Annie now, and feel mildly guilty about it, cause Bunny turned out way younger than I thought he'd be. But look how sweet he is and what a nice effect on Annie he has. I guess that just shows - us humans just enjoy discussing others' romantic interests wayyy tooo much.
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Post by warrl on Oct 20, 2015 4:59:52 GMT
Some people with a strong sense of gender identity think that almost everyone is like them in that regard. Which is perfectly natural (if I'm not exceptional then most people must be like me, right?) but it isn't necessarily true. Even among humans, where mating is almost entirely a choice, the importance of gender as a part of one's sense of identity varies wildly and all the way down to indiscernible-from-zero.
For lots of animal species, mating is entirely or almost-entirely instinct-driven. There's no particular reason to think that gender would be a significant part of their identity. (Although there's also no particular evidence that it isn't.)
If bunny-boy was agender before, which I suspect is the norm for rabbits, either remaining agender or acquiring a male gender identity along with his male body would not be emotionally traumatic. Nothing as compared to the change of species identity.
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Post by setrain on Oct 20, 2015 6:08:17 GMT
darththulhu: I understand the rabbit to have been more similar to human than that. It certainly isn't an ordinary rabbit with ordinary rabbit intelligence. I'm curious what you think stays the same. Like what parts remain that make them meaningfully the same entity. Do you see them as two entirely separate characters? Because it's hard to see another way to read your post. And um I want this to be true because I like to see stuff like that represented in media I consume? Is that so weird?
warrl: okay you're right. That's totally plausible and yeah I know some people have weak gender identities, sorry for leaving them out, (although I think most cis people have stronger gender identities than they realize. It's hard to notice your stomach when it isn't hurting. Rabbits being default agender totally makes sense. Honestly I just wish the question gets resolved some way or another because I don't like the implications of most stories where this happens and gender identity changes with the body. Like I want the question to be acknowledged because the default narrative is really harmful.
I hope people can understand why I seem to care more about real world parallels than causes internal to the story. Tom Siddell is one of the few writers I trust to do a trans story well and you almost never see that. When the rabbit plot happened I was excited and scared about how it would be handled. Maybe I'm reading too much into things because it's important to me. But I really don't think my question is as unfounded as people seem to think it is.
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Post by speedwell on Oct 20, 2015 7:18:03 GMT
To me, the transition from adult to prepubescent child is much more horrifying than a simple switch in gender identity.
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Post by aline on Oct 20, 2015 7:21:51 GMT
There's a lot more than gender roles and presentation there. Of course, but our tabus regarding gender have a lot to do with gender roles and socially accepted behavior. For some societies, changing one's gender is something unthinkable. For others, it can happen under a given set of socially accepted rules. Those rules may be good or bad. None of that is something I expect our rabbit to be worried about. I don't think the probability that he feels female is 0% as darththulhu said (because he's a human now and humans are complicated). But I believe even if he does, there is no need for it to be a big deal. And as darththulhu said, our rabbit right now is dealing with a great deal of changes. Things look different, sound different. He has HANDS. etc. And let's not forget, he's still a kid. So it might be a year or two before his gender identity becomes something he explores t all, among all the new stuff that needs exploring. After all, he has many reasons to feel a bit strange in that new body of his even with no gender change. I get why that's important to you. But I don't think it's going to be so much of a big focus in our rabbit's story, nor do I believe that it needs to be. Gender identty in this context and in the context of a normal social context are simply two very different pair of shoes. |
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Post by keef on Oct 20, 2015 9:38:53 GMT
To me, the transition from adult to prepubescent child is much more horrifying than a simple switch in gender identity. To me, a lifelong human male, both are equally terrifying, but for a being that started life as a female jackalope (a species known mainly for the fact they do not exist) things are probably different. You just hop along and wait how your author writes you. On the other hand: to wake up one morning and find yourself on the start of life again... It would be at least interesting. |
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Post by darththulhu on Oct 21, 2015 1:20:08 GMT
I don't think the probability that he feels female is 0% as darththulhu said (because he's a human now and humans are complicated). 0% is probably not achieved in reality, since the Court isn't cranking out clones, but the Court goal would be 0% divergence from the Plan baseline. The standard range of human percentage outcomes might be considered acceptible divergence, but tolerating some marginal variation is vastly different from accepting large-double-digit-percentages awry from the Plan. Humans seem to have a 3.5% same-sex-attraction rate (exclusive and overlapping interest combined), a 0.3% rate for intersexuality and transsexuality (combined), and a less than 0.1% rate for "doesn't feel human" and "doesn't feel like their actual age" (combined). The Court shrugging at such percentages is vastly different from tolerating an Unplanned 30% same-sex-attraction rate, an Unplanned 50% intersex rate, and an Unplanned 100% "doesn't feel like a human child" rate. The Court would prefer perfect predictability with 0% deviation from whatever their Plan is. Maybe their Plan is 0% same-sex romance, 5% same-sex romance, or 100% same-sex romance, but whatever the target number is, the Court wants that outcome to be achieved and has the creepy tools to achieve and enforce that outcome over successive cohorts. Same for skin-color diversity, lactose tolerance, malaria resistance, spatial memory talent, and feels-like-a-human-child metrics. Whatever the Plan of the moment is (and it is entirely possible that the various Foley Cohort Plans have evolved a great deal over the decades and centuries), the Court wants that Plan for each Foley Student to be achieved far more often than not. The Court reasonably can be expected to want 0% rates of "doesn't feel human". The Court outright expects a 0% rate of "old Name still applies" and expects the Totem process to scour the old Name clear. The Court flat out wants sex parity for some reason, and to want gonad-lacking hollow fairies to all become human girls (and only human girls) for some reason, and to want magical animals of whatever gonads to all become human boys (and only human boys) for some reason. Whatever those weird reasons end up being, 50+% divergence rates on any category from the desired outcome would likely be both Unacceptable and Preventable ... at the most grotesque extreme, cram the kid's spirit back into a Totem and crank out another body. Most likely, there would be serious side-eye if any given vat-grown Foley class had multiple students with extreme dismorphias ("I still feel like a bull!", "I still feel like a genital-lacking hollow shell!", "I still feel like a lactating mother of piglets!", "I somehow feel like a male wolf despite having been a fairy before and not having the relevant gonads nor a canine body now!"). Given that the Foley students don't come in for even 10% of the serious side-eye that the Chester students routinely get, we can presume that the vast majority of Foley students actually feel like (ethereally-gifted, learning their new bodies) human boys and girls. The rich ethereal life and the retained magical perks and the ability to put the body on autopilot and the love of fights and up-pointy hair and the loss of Name are all interesting commonalities, but "feels like a human girl rather than a hollow magical-shell" and "feels like a human boy rather than a magical animal" are also, thus far, equally-demonstrated interesting commonalities. (And the changes going the other way are probably equally extreme. Alistair has possibly mated by now, and would be raising near-adult kids if he did so that first year, and heaven alone knows what life as an antlered-bird in Gillitie is like ... maybe antlered-birds are all obligate hermaphrodites?) |
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Post by speedwell on Oct 21, 2015 1:46:03 GMT
I don't think the probability that he feels female is 0% as darththulhu said (because he's a human now and humans are complicated). 0% is probably not achieved in reality, since the Court isn't cranking out clones, but the Court goal would be 0% divergence from the Plan baseline. The standard range of human percentage outcomes might be considered acceptible divergence, but tolerating some marginal variation is vastly different from accepting large-double-digit-percentages awry from the Plan. Humans seem to have a 3.5% same-sex-attraction rate (exclusive and overlapping interest combined), a 0.3% rate for intersexuality and transsexuality (combined), and a less than 0.1% rate for "doesn't feel human" and "doesn't feel like their actual age" (combined). The Court shrugging at such percentages is vastly different from tolerating an Unplanned 30% same-sex-attraction rate, an Unplanned 50% intersex rate, and an Unplanned 100% "doesn't feel like a human child" rate. The Court would prefer perfect predictability with 0% deviation from whatever their Plan is. Maybe their Plan is 0% same-sex romance, 5% same-sex romance, or 100% same-sex romance, but whatever the target number is, the Court wants that outcome to be achieved and has the creepy tools to achieve and enforce that outcome over successive cohorts. Same for skin-color diversity, lactose tolerance, malaria resistance, spatial memory talent, and feels-like-a-human-child metrics. Whatever the Plan of the moment is (and it is entirely possible that the various Foley Cohort Plans have evolved a great deal over the decades and centuries), the Court wants that Plan for each Foley Student to be achieved far more often than not. The Court reasonably can be expected to want 0% rates of "doesn't feel human". The Court outright expects a 0% rate of "old Name still applies" and expects the Totem process to scour the old Name clear. The Court flat out wants sex parity for some reason, and to want gonad-lacking hollow fairies to all become human girls (and only human girls) for some reason, and to want magical animals of whatever gonads to all become human boys (and only human boys) for some reason. Whatever those weird reasons end up being, 50+% divergence rates on any category from the desired outcome would likely be both Unacceptable and Preventable ... at the most grotesque extreme, cram the kid's spirit back into a Totem and crank out another body. Most likely, there would be serious side-eye if any given vat-grown Foley class had multiple students with extreme dismorphias ("I still feel like a bull!", "I still feel like a genital-lacking hollow shell!", "I still feel like a lactating mother of piglets!", "I somehow feel like a male wolf despite having been a fairy before and not having the relevant gonads nor a canine body now!"). Given that the Foley students don't come in for even 10% of the serious side-eye that the Chester students routinely get, we can presume that the vast majority of Foley students actually feel like (ethereally-gifted, learning their new bodies) human boys and girls. The rich ethereal life and the retained magical perks and the ability to put the body on autopilot and the love of fights and up-pointy hair and the loss of Name are all interesting commonalities, but "feels like a human girl rather than a hollow magical-shell" and "feels like a human boy rather than a magical animal" are also, thus far, equally-demonstrated interesting commonalities. (And the changes going the other way are probably equally extreme. Alistair has possibly mated by now, and would be raising near-adult kids if he did so that first year, and heaven alone knows what life as an antlered-bird in Gillitie is like ... maybe antlered-birds are all obligate hermaphrodites?) I think this is a very good practical exploration of the theoretical implications I discuss in this post: gunnerkrigg.proboards.com/post/125919 The tl;dr point that I wanted to make being that we don't absolutely know whether the Court engineered this state of affairs or were constrained by (etheric?) circumstances beyond their control, or some combination. |
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Post by darththulhu on Oct 21, 2015 2:23:02 GMT
darththulhu: I understand the rabbit to have been more similar to human than that. It certainly isn't an ordinary rabbit with ordinary rabbit intelligence. I'm curious what you think stays the same. Like what parts remain that make them meaningfully the same entity. Do you see them as two entirely separate characters? I don't understand the rabbit's life to have been similar to human before, no matter how sapient it might have been. Green-elf lives aren't remotely human, and they're by far the most relatable thing in the Forest. Magical animals and wisps and fairies and shadow-people are all significantly less human. Jack of Lope wasn't human, but rather a magical horned rabbit female living a magical horned rabbit female life, a life dominated by jaw strength and hopping speed, and a life seeing the ether as much (or more than) seeing the material world. Likewise, I do not understand the soulless hollow-shells of the regional fairies (who can't even cut their hair because it is an integral part of their shell-body!) to have been similar to human, before. Their life is even more ethereal still, in an incredibly rough-and-tumble live-in-the-moment way that most material creatures could not pursue without multiple extreme injuries. The only commonality and continuance I see between their existences are 1) memory, 2) Naming as a Thing that Happens to them, and 3) their extreme ethereal sensitivity and talent and awareness ... but let's be clear that their Naming Thing and their extreme ethereal talent are Not Remotely Animal-Normal nor Human-Normal. Those are the two big parts of why Foley is segregated far away as a House, after all. The process of becoming a Foley Student is, to such beings, a literal Death followed by a literal Reincarnation into a completely alien body. It is as extreme a shift as you and I dying and magically waking up as young Xenomorph Queens from the Alien series ... an element of "us" would remain, and we might be significantly more tool-skilled and literate than all the other Xenomorph Queens, but expecting us to keep "identifying" as humans-of-whatever-gender is a real stretch, especially given how matter-of-fact and all-consuming Xenomorph-Queen-Egglaying becomes as a mature adult. It's not necessarily weird, but it is at extreme odds with the actual world being depicted in this comic. On one level, Gunnerkrigg Court and everyone associated with it and the Forest are all absurdly open-minded and laid-back about countless bizarre realities. Kat may well be a manufactured child-program spawned of an ethereal supercomputer. Foley kids are resurrected magical Forest creatures. Zimmy is one small example of a Chester Girl. Renard is a bound demigod in a kid's toy. Ysengrin became a Tree-Wolf a couple years ago. Robot thinks Kat is RoboMessiah. Shadow and Robot have an intimate but Inherently Not Sexual relationship. The LCs are Laser-Cows. Doctor Disaster is Doctor Disaster. Jones is Jones. Lindsey and Bud are Lindsey and Bud. After a moment of initial shock, no one bats an eye at any of this. In that context, yes, of course the Foley kids feel like girls and boys. Just like Bud and Lindsey feel like husband and wife in a way we all understand. Ethereal Tenent means "it just works, OK?" and thus no one bats an eye, because why would they? If any of Foley kids do feel a gender identity or a species identity different from their vat-grown bodies, literally nobody else would care anymore than they cared about the Cruise Ship Wanting To Become Flesh (except to the degree that a large batch of such differences implies bad quality control in the Foley Student vat-growth process). It's just never going to be a point of conflict at Gunnerkrigg. I mean: Maybe Llanwellyn had sex-reassignment surgery a decade ago. Maybe Robot and Shadow will become Pigeons. Maybe Anthony Carver and Ysengrin will have a formal Victorian courtship and a Big Fat Gillitie Wedding, complete with stunning formal evening gowns and breakdancing cotillions. No one cares, in the best possible way. |
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Post by arf on Oct 21, 2015 5:30:43 GMT
All I can think about right now is that seeing Ysengrin's trunk-arm burnt to a smoldering husk gives me the strangest urge to roast marshmallows. This needs fanart. And I need marshmallows. Time is of the essence! Here we go. Hopefully time is still essential... |
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Post by matoyak on Oct 21, 2015 6:24:42 GMT
This needs fanart. And I need marshmallows. Time is of the essence! Here we go. Hopefully time is still essential... Uhh. Sommat got borked. (I tried fixing when quoting, but to no avail) |
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Post by intotheether on Oct 21, 2015 6:24:19 GMT
Ah, Gunnerkrigg.
Possibly the only forum where we have debates over the nuanced repercussions of magical transgenderism, interspecies transitions and temporal displacement, fawning over cute rabbit children and fanart of a character roasting marshmallows on the smoldering husk of his own charred former limb all in a single thread.
God I love this place.
All this thread needs is a "Smitty is kinda ok with this" stamp of approval to be complete.
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Post by arf on Oct 21, 2015 6:53:33 GMT
Here we go. Hopefully time is still essential... Uhh. Sommat got borked. (I tried fixing when quoting, but to no avail) What the...!?? (it worked for me before.) Oh well, it seems fixed now (?) |
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