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Post by chrisjenl on Oct 7, 2015 12:59:41 GMT
So interesting that Coyote immediately think that Anna "look" different is bi-case of the court and Ysengrin think its her on doing. I was thinks normally the other way around Ysengrin always think the court is the big problem and responsible for all the bad thinks and Coyote see that is is or not!
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Post by The Anarch on Oct 7, 2015 13:30:52 GMT
For Annie, the day Anthony returned to the court was the most important day of her life.
But for the denizens of the forest . . . it was Tuesday.
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Post by gunnerwf on Oct 7, 2015 13:39:27 GMT
Not very sensitive Ysengrin.
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Post by Rasselas on Oct 7, 2015 13:52:08 GMT
Ysengrin, therapist to the fire elemental.
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Post by fwip on Oct 7, 2015 13:56:40 GMT
The ellipses...
Wondering whether the "so" is rhetorical. It could be designed to make Annie think, yes, but it could also be that he doesn't understand why Annie would have to cope this way with her father's reappearance. IDK if this contradicts what we've learned in an earlier comic though.
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Post by pxc on Oct 7, 2015 14:50:30 GMT
This could provoke anger from Annie. Which is good. It means re-attaching that part of herself.
I've sympathized w/her and felt bad for her. But it is time for her to stop using Tony as an excuse for doing nothing. Her father is in the wrong, but she is old enough and experienced enough to have recovered from the initial punches and fight back. Ysengrin is right if he tells her she's being weak. Pick yourself up Annie. You're in a safe and empowering place, away from your father and the court. Now is the time.
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Post by atteSmythe on Oct 7, 2015 14:54:23 GMT
It's probably been a while since Ysengrin was not the alpha. Or was an adolescent. And he probably wasn't ever in school. That aside, he's got a point. One day, Coyote will give him his memories back. On that day, we'll see how proud he is of self-control. |
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Post by jda on Oct 7, 2015 15:13:52 GMT
"How can you possibly understand, Ysengrin? It's not like you've ever had a father." "Neither have you." |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Oct 7, 2015 15:26:11 GMT
So interesting that Coyote immediately think that Anna "look" different is bi-case of the court and Ysengrin think its her on doing. I was thinks normally the other way around Ysengrin always think the court is the big problem and responsible for all the bad thinks and Coyote see that is is or not! By the end of the meeting, Coyote may have discerned that Annie cut herself and told Ysengrin. Maybe when Coyote smelled all of the Broken Man, Coyote could telll that Anthony didn't know what Annie had done. |
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Sadie
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I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
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Post by Sadie on Oct 7, 2015 16:41:01 GMT
"My father... has returned."
All the Court people in Annie's life have agreed that Anthony being gone was a big deal and him returning in such an abrasive way is an even bigger deal. She's been surround by people expecting her to be angry and upset (whether she understands why they think she would be is another subject). She doesn't have to voice her anger... in fact, I think this is the first time she's even hinted that her anger exists. Previously, she's just insisted that she's fine and nothing is wrong. She has people she can open up about her feelings to, but no one that's really put her on the spot, which I don't really fault any of them for.
Ysengrin is the first friend she's talked to in a while that isn't showing immediate understanding of the context and presuming her feelings based on that.
Not to say that his "So?" isn't still dismissive. There are more compassionate ways to convey the same sentiment --"what does that have to do with your current feelings?" -- but you can't fault Ysengrin for his brevity.
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Post by l33tninja on Oct 7, 2015 16:44:17 GMT
Ysengrin saying "So?" just might force Annie to confront her feelings and explain why she's feeling them. Yes Ysengrin! Also note Rabbit holding his arm up to stop Smitty from walking forward nice catch on that, I missed it the first time. Rabbit +2 |
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Post by l33tninja on Oct 7, 2015 16:46:23 GMT
Ysengrin might be the most helpful to Annie right now because he cares about her a lot and he's not into worrying about hurting her feelings just to let her keep hurting herself. Blunt might be what she needs right now.
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Post by matoyak on Oct 7, 2015 16:49:55 GMT
This has the same feel as "You are weak". I think it is more like, what has that got to do with any thing? Ysengrin is being very unambiguously. Yes, it very well could mean that. But I wasn't talking about what he meant with it. I was talking about the feel of it. This is Ys being his normal brutally blunt self that rips Annie out of the safe zone she's built for herself in order to face her problems head on. This has the same feel as "You are weak". Feels like the exact opposite to me. The implication seems to be (whether or not Ysengrin knows it) that her father can't get in the way of her life, so there's no reason for her to act like he can. How is that the opposite? Seems exactly the same to me. Ys being blunt about her problems to get her to face them and overcome them, rather than letting them rule her. Same feel as back then. Yeah, this came to my mind as well, after my initial post. It's probably an even better example of what Ys is doing, but they both have a similar feel to what is going on here. A couple of other previous comics that I feel have influences on this one: Panels 5 & 6 in particular here. This entire page. Unrelated to the Annie stuff: Hmm. So I know this has been brought up before,, (Mostly because his hair, it goes up!), but with the Rabbit storyline coming back around again, I begin to wonder if that last panel is hinting at something. (Granted, he's not in Foley soooo... Eh). |
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Post by Trillium on Oct 7, 2015 17:03:06 GMT
In the panel where Annie says, "My father...has returned," she has put on that mask-like face. The face she puts on when she is divorcing herself from her emotions and Ysengrin isn't having any of it. Good for him. Hopefully it will also be good for Annie.
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Post by nero on Oct 7, 2015 18:18:48 GMT
Good, I hope Annie confronts and sorts out her own feelings about Anthony's return. Maybe she can have a real conversation with him.
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Post by Nitro~Nina on Oct 7, 2015 18:26:14 GMT
"My father... has returned." All the Court people in Annie's life have agreed that Anthony being gone was a big deal and him returning in such an abrasive way is an even bigger deal. She's been surround by people expecting her to be angry and upset (whether she understands why they think she would be is another subject). She doesn't have to voice her anger... in fact, I think this is the first time she's even hinted that her anger exists. Previously, she's just insisted that she's fine and nothing is wrong. She has people she can open up about her feelings to, but no one that's really put her on the spot, which I don't really fault any of them for. Ysengrin is the first friend she's talked to in a while that isn't showing immediate understanding of the context and presuming her feelings based on that. Not to say that his "So?" isn't still dismissive. There are more compassionate ways to convey the same sentiment --"what does that have to do with your current feelings?" -- but you can't fault Ysengrin for his brevity. This is definitely what I'm thinking here. I admire Ysengrin for taking that step to help... Annie isn't being "weak" as such,; she's been the subject of (as unwitting as it may have been) emotional abuse and a lot of turmoil, so I think we need to give her a break on the whole weakness thing and focus on helping, as Ysengrin seems to be trying to do. |
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madragoran
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"If he trully does hurt you, I will rend the flesh from his bones on your word"
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Post by madragoran on Oct 7, 2015 19:09:45 GMT
I love Ysengrin! Yes. I admit to loving the homocidal psycopathic wolf/tree that occasionally tries to kill Annie. I read the posts above and I think his "So...?" is his way of saying "Why would you be distressed? You can handle wild forest spirits and Coyote" or something like that. Ysengrin is like that, candid friend some of us have, who will cut straight to the chase asking the difficult questions other "friends" delicately avoid. He is pragmatic, down to earth and to borrow one of my friends expressions "Not afraid to put the boot in" if a kick is what is needed. He will do good by her (if Coyote stops messing with his memories). The straight forward friends are the best ones.
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elebenty
Junior Member
Better than bubble wrap.
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Post by elebenty on Oct 7, 2015 19:45:24 GMT
Look at how sunken and dark her eyes are in the ether (panel 2). We aren't quite defcon Zimmy, but we are getting close.
No wonder it pains Ysengrin to see her like this. For the first time we can see what the separation is doing to her. Perhaps she could waste away like her mother.
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Post by darththulhu on Oct 7, 2015 20:02:36 GMT
I just hope that Annie's wode-eyed shocked expression indicates the light of reason dawning between her ears, and not a displaced rant against safe and protective father-figure Ysengrin that should better be directed to dangerous father Anthony Calling Ysengrin "safe and protective" in direct contrast to calling Anthony "dangerous" is misguided. The two of them directly mirror one another in myriad ways: 1) Strongly dislike the Court 2) Trust the Court only as far as they can throw it (which is significantly less far than Coyote can throw it) 3) Intervene roughly to stop Antimony's behavior from further wrecking her own life (her weepy refusal to face her reality as a fire elemental, her unrepentant cheating and arrogant insubordination headed directly for Expulsion) 4) Suck at expressing their thoughts when strong emotions are in play (Tony goes ice-cold and shuts down, Ysengrin goes red-hot and vents on digressions) 5) Become oblivious to others when in the grip of passionate feeling 6) Directly (and obliviously) put Antimony's life into immediate peril That One Time of extra-passionate feeling 7) Quite possibly would have killed Antimony at That One Time if a third party Knight Errant had not intervened to save her life How, exactly, is Anthony not precisely as much "the safe and protective" demigod in her life as Ysengrin? How, exactly, is Ysengrin not precisely as much "the dangerous" demigod in her life as Anthony? |
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Post by warrl on Oct 7, 2015 20:22:37 GMT
I continue to not believe that the Court actually intended to expel Annie, either now or (even more so) just before she graduates. That would be too stupid and counter-productive even for them. However, that wouldn't stop them from CLAIMING to have that intent, as a tool to manipulate either her or her father (or Kat, or Kat's parents, or...)
As for Ysengrin's "So?", I kinda read that as "Why should that change who you are - or who gets to decide who you are?"
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Post by Gotolei on Oct 7, 2015 20:27:03 GMT
This could provoke anger from Annie. Which is good. It means re-attaching that part of herself I wonder if Annie actually knew what she was doing when she 'cut off the anger.' Was it the anger, per se? Or did she cut off the fire elemental, and the human that's leftover is borderline emotionless, as per her father's influence?Should be interesting to see where this goes. |
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Post by darththulhu on Oct 7, 2015 21:00:09 GMT
So interesting that Coyote immediately think that Anna "look" different is bi-case of the court and Ysengrin think its her on doing. I was thinks normally the other way around Ysengrin always think the court is the big problem and responsible for all the bad thinks and Coyote see that is is or not! It is an interesting reversal for Ysengrin to be detached about assigning responsibility to the Court, while Coyote goes off on a rant about the Court. Some of that is because Coyote went in first, so Ysengrin is caught up on the details of what's going on already. Apart from that, your skill at English is far superior to mine with any other second language, and I hope you will appreciate guidance in improving it even more. With so many borrowed words, the vocabulary and irregular verbs can be difficult to master. In that spirit: 1) "Coyote immediately think" and "Ysengrin think" ... If you wish to say these in the present tense, these would be "Coyote immediately thinks" and "Ysengrin thinks" ... if you wish to say these in the past tense, these woukd be "Coyote immediately thought" and "Ysengrin thought" 2) "Anna "look" different" ... in the present tense, this would be "Annie "looks" different" ... in the past tense, this would be "Annie "looked" different" 3) "is bi-case" ... in either present or past tense, this would just be one word, spelled "because" 4) "its her on doing" ... the first word would be the contraction "it's" (meaning "it is") and the third word would be spelled "own" 5) "I was thinks normally the other way around Ysengrin" ... The first eight words are a complete set-up sentence, and would have a ";" or a ":" at the end of them before comparing Ysengrin and Coyote ... "was thinks" would be just "think" in the present tense, or "was thinking" in the past participle ... and either before or after the word "normally" one would say "that is" or "it is" or "the situation is" or "the reaction is" to confirm exactly what is "normally the other way around" 6) "Ysengrin always think" and "Coyote see that" ... in the present tense, these would be "Ysengrin always thinks" and "Coyote sees that" ... or in the past tense, these would be "Ysengrin always thought" and "Coyote saw that" 7) "responsible for all the bad thinks" would be "responsible for all the bad things" 8) "that is is or not!" would be "that it is not!" 9) As a proper noun Name, "the court" should be capitalized as "the Court" 10) Anytime there is a pause in a long sentence after expressing a sub-thought, there should be a "," comma. Altogether, the present-tense version of the paragraph would be: The past-tense version of the paragraph would be: Either way, a solid insight into the reversal of roles of these two during this chapter. |
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Post by darththulhu on Oct 7, 2015 21:14:44 GMT
Look at how sunken and dark her eyes are in the ether (panel 2). We aren't quite defcon Zimmy, but we are getting close. No wonder it pains Ysengrin to see her like this. For the first time we can see what the separation is doing to her. Perhaps she could waste away like her mother. I think DefCon Zimmy is significantly worse. Remember, what we see of Zimmy is not what Zimmy looks like in the Ether, but what little leaks through to influence the real world. Etherial Annie does not yet look even close to as bad as Material Zimmy ... and Etherial Zimmy is probably a completely different order of Nightmare Horror. |
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Post by darththulhu on Oct 7, 2015 21:27:32 GMT
I continue to not believe that the Court actually intended to expel Annie, either now or (even more so) just before she graduates. That would be too stupid and counter-productive even for them Like refusing to make Annie the Court Medium? Like refusing to allow Annie to go into the Forest prior to Coyote making her the Forest Medium? Like arranging for Anthony to cut off her visits to the Forest anyway? The Court excels at stupid and counter-productive things, especially when it comes to throwing its weight around in displays of authority. It's very much like Coyote that way. And let's not forget that Annie wasn't just flagrantly cheating her way through the majority of her classes for two full years. She was also arrogantly blowing off an entire year of detentions after her little jaunt into the Forest the previous Summer. Despite multiple warnings from people like Jones and Eglamore that the Court was rapidly losing patience with her, she kept blowing those detentions off. Four more years of that kind of insubordinate misbehavior and I can quite easily see the Court taking joy and delight in dressing her down as viciously as possible in front of everyone, just before banning her from ever returning to the Court. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Oct 7, 2015 22:59:25 GMT
Unrelated to the Annie stuff: Hmm. So I know this has been brought up before,, (Mostly because his hair, it goes up!), but with the Rabbit storyline coming back around again, I begin to wonder if that last panel is hinting at something. (Granted, he's not in Foley soooo... Eh). That is my cue... William is second generation Forest Folk, or so I like to think until proven otherwise. His hair goes up and Llanwellyn would go crazy if the knew that he is Janet boyfriend. Clearly his mother, father, or both are Foley alumni. Sorry for the distraction from today's page |
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Post by todd on Oct 7, 2015 23:59:27 GMT
I continue to not believe that the Court actually intended to expel Annie, either now or (even more so) just before she graduates. That would be too stupid and counter-productive even for them. I certainly think it would have had many problems. For one thing, if she took Reynardine with her, the Court would be unable to keep watch over him - and they couldn't take him away from her without freeing him. Furthermore, you'd then have a half-fire elemental wandering somewhere out there, doing who knows what - would the Court really feel safe about that prospect? Imprisoning her in a fire-proof cell would be a much more advisable approach. Though as I've mentioned before, this is the same Court that: a) seems to think that meddling with the ether and performing experiments on it is a good idea. b) persists in living next door to a forest filled with powerful beings who aren't too keen on those experiments or other activities. (Did it ever occur to the "lords of the Court" that they wouldn't have to worry about Coyote, Ysengrin, Reynardine, and the rest if they weren't so close to Gilltie Wood? Though I suspect that those aforesaid experiments can only be done in that area - maybe thanks to the proximity of the Bismuth Seed - which would argue against them moving somewhere safer.) |
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quark
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Posts: 137
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Post by quark on Oct 8, 2015 0:19:23 GMT
I continue to not believe that the Court actually intended to expel Annie, either now or (even more so) just before she graduates. That would be too stupid and counter-productive even for them Like refusing to make Annie the Court Medium? Like refusing to allow Annie to go into the Forest prior to Coyote making her the Forest Medium? Like arranging for Anthony to cut off her visits to the Forest anyway? The Court excels at stupid and counter-productive things, especially when it comes to throwing its weight around in displays of authority. It's very much like Coyote that way. And let's not forget that Annie wasn't just flagrantly cheating her way through the majority of her classes for two full years. She was also arrogantly blowing off an entire year of detentions after her little jaunt into the Forest the previous Summer. Despite multiple warnings from people like Jones and Eglamore that the Court was rapidly losing patience with her, she kept blowing those detentions off. Four more years of that kind of insubordinate misbehavior and I can quite easily see the Court taking joy and delight in dressing her down as viciously as possible in front of everyone, just before banning her from ever returning to the Court. To be completely honest, I don't think the Court arranged for Anthony to cut of Annie from the Forest. They contacted him before Annie became Forest Medium (presumably) - I just think they wanted him to reign her in (that stuff with the cheating/detention etc.) I think the Court wants and needs peaceful contact to the Forest - they wouldn't have trained several mediums otherwise. They regularly exchange citizens who cross the border out of their own free will - the Foley students are just one example, Aly's parent's are, too. They are.. a machine, kind of. Bureaucracy. They must keep their own rules - they respected Smitty's decision to support Annie, even though they could have just used a different medium or even bullied him. They would have protected and educated her until graduation - if she continued cheating, she might not have passed the tests and would have needed to repeat them or wouldn't have had a diploma. The headmaster is but one cog in that machine - he tried to dress down Annie by not making her medium, but when that backfired, he couldn't stop the things that happened. He might not like Annie because she's annoying, but he doesn't have the power or viciousness to make her life harder. I think a lot of what happened recently was Anthony taking everything too far, again - he does that. He is blind to the needs and wants of others - it would be very much in character for him to take something like 'please reign in your daughter, she's a danger to herself and the court' (which she was, running away into the forest) and do what he did. They obviously didn't want Annie to stop her duties as forest medium. They didn't want her to stop being her, actually. They gave her a lot of freedom, and just watched - that's way more interesting and productive than bullying her into submission. Now, Ysengrin: I love that. I love that question. And it's obvious. He saw Annie stand up to gods, fight demons... he just can't believe that Annie would harm herself because she can't deal with one puny man. From his perspective, it's even more extreme - she dares to do things he won't do (standing up to coyote) but is incapable of dealing with a human, not even part fire elemental or magic? Something is wrong, there, and the answer 'my father... has returned' is absolutely not satisfying to him. It was, to all her friends and people at the court, but here? She neglected her duties as Forest medium because she couldn't stand up to her father. There is a lot we don't know about the Forest and medium duties, but what we do know - forest mediums are supposed to be negotiators, neutral parties that are safe to approach for all citizens of the forest. Maybe they even solve conflicts inside the Forest. That's a huge responsibility - Ysengrin had it many years, and Annie thinks the return of her father is enough reason to neglect them. |
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Post by arf on Oct 8, 2015 0:33:09 GMT
Thankyou for putting my reaction to a snappy 'burn' so succinctly. |
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Post by arf on Oct 8, 2015 0:40:32 GMT
Now wondering if Ys' strategy is to get Annie mad so the healing can begin. Ah, but she cannot. What's with keeping her anger separate. That's the beauty of it. It's difficult but, to judge from her reaction to Kat's upset, not impossible. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Oct 8, 2015 1:10:49 GMT
Feels like the exact opposite to me. The implication seems to be (whether or not Ysengrin knows it) that her father can't get in the way of her life, so there's no reason for her to act like he can. How is that the opposite? Seems exactly the same to me. Ys being blunt about her problems to get her to face them and overcome them, rather than letting them rule her. Same feel as back then. For one, he took that back to a degree at the time, saying her reaction was justified given what she learned that day. For another, 'You are weak' implies she's not doing something because she can't. His 'So?' seems to imply she's not doing something but there's no reason for her not to, because she can do it. See, Annie's always used her father's actions as a form of excuse. Hopefully, that last panel is a revelation that she shouldn't define herself exclusively by her father's expectations. This could provoke anger from Annie. Which is good. It means re-attaching that part of herself. I've sympathized w/her and felt bad for her. But it is time for her to stop using Tony as an excuse for doing nothing. Her father is in the wrong, but she is old enough and experienced enough to have recovered from the initial punches and fight back. Ysengrin is right if he tells her she's being weak. Pick yourself up Annie. You're in a safe and empowering place, away from your father and the court. Now is the time. Ah, victim blaming. Always good to see. Annie's problem is not that she's using Tony as an excuse, it's that disconnecting and dissociating has been her coping mechanism all her life, so she doesn't even know she has any other option. Tony certainly hasn't shown her any other way of dealing with her problems. |
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