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Post by antiyonder on Aug 21, 2015 10:11:19 GMT
He has acted in ways that if things were as they seemed could only be justified as a means of preventing something worse. His behaviour since he returned is looking like he could be trying to protect her from the Court and could be partially an act. We do not yet have the information that will put everything into context. We will know soon. Disagreed: 1. As some would say, the ones you love/trust have the potential to do more harm to you than any villain on the planet ever could.* 2. Well if The Court is so smart that one has to consider acting cold to their child, then wouldn't it be worth considering that The Court is genre savvy? As such, Anthony's attempt at Annie not only is futile, but does her more harm than they do.* *But that depends on whether or not you share the belief that emotional/mental harm can be more potent than physical harm. |
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Post by carasanathema on Aug 21, 2015 10:27:59 GMT
I also wonder if this is behind his vicious reaction to Annie wearing makeup similar to Surma's. Seeing his dead wife transforming into his daughter as it killed her can't have improved Tony's ability to handle Annie's desire to look like her mother in any way.
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Post by luxanima on Aug 21, 2015 10:28:11 GMT
Did we already see this from Zimmy's point of view? Which chapter was that?
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Post by sherni on Aug 21, 2015 10:38:54 GMT
Yes!! Zimmy's the best! And she's got one hell of a punch as well! Well, at least he's a good sport about it. Although I do wonder what he would've thought to see Surma turn into Annie, then turn into, well... Zimmy. "Thank God I hadn't gone for the kiss yet." Thank god indeed. Not something anyone wants to think about. Zimmy included. I would have liked this page more if she morphed while Anthony was sloppily slipping her the tongue. [edit]And copping a handful.[/edit] Damn it all!!! What did I just say?!?! Not sure if Anthony would have survived that experience, though. At the best, he would have showed up looking worse than Mad-Eye Moody. Now excuse me while I borrow Daedalus' brain bleach... I really, really want to see his face when he encounters Zimmy here, though. And see what Zimmy has to say. Which still leaves us with the question of why he's being such an utter jerk to his daughter, instead of pretty much spoiling her rotten after almost getting her killed. |
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Post by justcurious on Aug 21, 2015 10:39:38 GMT
He has acted in ways that if things were as they seemed could only be justified as a means of preventing something worse. His behaviour since he returned is looking like he could be trying to protect her from the Court and could be partially an act. We do not yet have the information that will put everything into context. We will know soon. Disagreed: 1. As some would say, the ones you love/trust have the potential to do more harm to you than any villain on the planet ever could.* 2. Well if The Court is so smart that one has to consider acting cold to their child, then wouldn't it be worth considering that The Court is genre savvy? As such, Anthony's attempt at Annie not only is futile, but does her more harm than they do.* *But that depends on whether or not you share the belief that emotional/mental harm can be more potent than physical harm. That was one speculation that I offered and it's not the most likely one. It is however the only one I can think of that would justify his actions. Believing that he needs to be distant is more likely and is culpable. More likely still it is something unrevealed or a combination of these. And Anthony is quite naive. He might do such a foolish thing. |
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Post by justcurious on Aug 21, 2015 10:50:14 GMT
One thing I noticed on this page. Zimmy's hands are rather large for a girl's especially one her size.
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Post by antiyonder on Aug 21, 2015 10:52:18 GMT
It is however the only one I can think of that would justify his actions. Even if that is the reason, I'd say at best it's understandable, but not justifiable. I mean if you harm someone emotionally and mentally, I'd argue that physical protection is pointless. The former two afterall are at times harder to recover from than physical pain. |
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Post by gwydion on Aug 21, 2015 11:02:38 GMT
Huh would have though the might of an eldritch girl manipulating the ether itself to bend space....would have given him a lot more damage.
Um still trying to work out whether "That Thing" is a term of endearment or just because tony didn't know who Zimmy was.
With all the things being shown about Tony apparently caring for Annie and his show of emotions to Donald, i'm thinking he may have a psychological or at least behavioural disorder. We've seen him show extreme stress over social interactions and social graces. Maybe he's harsh on Annie just because he doesn't know how to deal and react around her, but again I'm not remotely an expert on the various psychological and behavioural disorders out there so I could be mistaken.
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Post by justcurious on Aug 21, 2015 11:17:19 GMT
With all the things being shown about Tony apparently caring for Annie and his show of emotions to Donald, i'm thinking he may have a psychological or at least behavioural disorder. We've seen him show extreme stress over social interactions and social graces. Maybe he's harsh on Annie just because he doesn't know how to deal and react around her, but again I'm not remotely an expert on the various psychological and behavioural disorders out there so I could be mistaken. I'm not the only one who has suggested Asperger's Syndrome or Autism with Annie having a more moderate and better dealt with case. It does not explain all his behaviour, nor would one expect it to but it fits what we know of him. |
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Post by elcheeso on Aug 21, 2015 11:49:24 GMT
Zimmy seems to have some serious yaoi hands going on in the 2nd panel. Not surprising that those monsters hit Tony hard enough to scar.
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Post by diantris on Aug 21, 2015 11:55:04 GMT
I feel Anthony's an introvert. Probably the type that needs to have everything in order and thought out and logical. If it's not, he is lost. He's set up firmly in the world, not understanding feelings. Not understanding etheric stuff. He is like the Court, dabbling in things he cannot grasp. He was so sure there had to be a scientific explanation and a method to save Surma, but there is none. There cannot be. What if.. due to his ignorance he went on a wild chase and coyote caught up with him and tried to make him extract the elemental? Coyote tries so hard to get back all that is etheric from the Court. We still have no idea about his motives, true, but his actions? Dividing the worlds. Trying to steal Rey. Trying to convince Annie to stay in the forest and making her medium. Being mad at her grounding in the Court by Anthony. Who knows, maybe he gave the powers to Rey in an attempt to steal Surma? But it failed. So he tries another trick years later and it backfires again. Anthony is back and is not letting Annie go to the forest anymore. If Anthony was shaken enough by the event, he could get back to his old ways. To calm down, calculate and quantify. He discovered Antimony has been cheating. He realised he neglected her, but he still knows next to nothing about being a father. About caring, loving, etc. He does, what he does best - gets back and tries to fix everything in a cold, logical way. But he still has Donny, the only person, to whom, in a 1:1 conversation, he can confess. We've seen the reflection of this from the past events. Not that I'm trying to excuse him, being myself (that is the introvert favoring feeling, harmony and understanding  ), but I'm nevertheless trying to understand the situation. Perhaps he knows no other way. |
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Post by sable0aria on Aug 21, 2015 12:46:29 GMT
Here's what I don't understand. How can Tony be this ignorant about Annie and Surma? Didn't he spend years researching how to keep Surma's spirit from being drained into Annie and killing her (Surma?) In one of the flashbacks he's glaring at Annie after kneeling by Surma's bed, apparently after realizing that he wasn't going to save her, and Surma says, "He still loves you" to Annie. He also clearly knew that Surma was a psychopomp, since it seems like she wasn't hiding it from anyone, so it would've made sense that he'd know that Annie was one, too. I don't see a reason why Surma would have hidden the info from him. So he had to know that pulling Surma's spirit back was going to do *something* to Annie, given their strong connection, even if he didn't know it could kill her (though that risk seems pretty obvious). How could he have thought that this wouldn't involve Annie at all? He made no provisions and sent no messages in his contact for Donnie to take care of Annie in case she was affected. Not to mention that he heard Annie's voice through the ether, so he knew she was connected in some way before he made the antenna (though I guess at this point he was probably crazy to see Surma again and wasn't likely to stop and think about what Annie's presence meant). So basically we've got a guy who is supposed to be a super smart scientist, who spent years studying everything he could about the nature of Surma's fire spirit and death curse, knew she was a psychopomp, and failed to put any of this together at all. He apparently knew less than almost everyone else who knew about Surma. Then he ditched his heartbroken daughter after her mother died (And she was forced to walk her mom into whatever afterlife that last remnant had), without noticing...oh...anything at all. Or thinking that maybe Annie had a closer connection to Surma than anyone else. She could have told him some crucial pieces of info right at the beginning even without her knowing about the fire spirit, if he'd only actually created a space for her to do so (including before Surma's death crowded everything out of his mind). So, again, what was he doing all those years while Surma was alive? Because it sure as hell doesn't sound like he was aware of much. My guess is it has to do with his skepticism of all things etheric we were told about. I'm wondering if he just never really listened to what Surma was trying to tell him until it was too late, and even then most likely did not understand what he was being told. |
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Post by todd on Aug 21, 2015 12:46:58 GMT
His behaviour since he returned is looking like he could be trying to protect her from the Court Maybe protect her from something - but I'm not sure it's the Court. The logical step for that would be to transfer Annie out of Gunnerkrigg to another, more ordinary school. (Though that would make it harder to continue the story.) He could even claim (assuming that this really is about Annie cheating and that his displeasure over it isn't a veil for some other motive) that enrolling her in a place where nothing weird's going on to investigate would ensure fewer distractions from her studies. (Though, while I've been tempted in the past to assume that Annie was cheating because all of those adventures and snoopings were eating into her study time, there's one problem with that theory; Annie was doing well in two of her classes - history and biology - and was apparently not cheating in them. So a more likely explanation is that Annie's simply not that good at most of the subjects the Court covers.) |
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Post by Per on Aug 21, 2015 12:53:14 GMT
I'm so happy that people have now completely rationalized Zimmy's years-long psychological abuse of Gamma and are heralding her as the best thing. Chances that Anthony will similarly and retroactively transition to best thing once he's settled in as part of Antimony's magical girl support squad and done something useful for her: very high.
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Post by justcurious on Aug 21, 2015 12:54:53 GMT
I feel Anthony's an introvert. Probably the type that needs to have everything in order and thought out and logical. If it's not, he is lost. He's set up firmly in the world, not understanding feelings. Not understanding etheric stuff. He is like the Court, dabbling in things he cannot grasp. He was so sure there had to be a scientific explanation and a method to save Surma, but there is none. There cannot be. What if.. due to his ignorance he went on a wild chase and coyote caught up with him and tried to make him extract the elemental? Coyote tries so hard to get back all that is etheric from the Court. We still have no idea about his motives, true, but his actions? Dividing the worlds. Trying to steal Rey. Trying to convince Annie to stay in the forest and making her medium. Being mad at her grounding in the Court by Anthony. Who knows, maybe he gave the powers to Rey in an attempt to steal Surma? But it failed. So he tries another trick years later and it backfires again. Anthony is back and is not letting Annie go to the forest anymore. If Anthony was shaken enough by the event, he could get back to his old ways. To calm down, calculate and quantify. He discovered Antimony has been cheating. He realised he neglected her, but he still knows next to nothing about being a father. About caring, loving, etc. He does, what he does best - gets back and tries to fix everything in a cold, logical way. But he still has Donny, the only person, to whom, in a 1:1 conversation, he can confess. We've seen the reflection of this from the past events. Not that I'm trying to excuse him, being myself (that is the introvert favoring feeling, harmony and understanding ), but I'm nevertheless trying to understand the situation. Perhaps he knows no other way. He's an obvious introvert. That merely means that he is more motivated by internal mind states than by outside interactions. But that would not explain much of his behaviour beyond his quietness. What he has are serious problems understanding and interacting with others, something quite different. Most likely it's Aspergers but only Tom knows. And yes he does want far too much order in his life, probably a consequence of the same psychological problems that give him difficulty understanding and interacting with others. |
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Post by lunaleaf on Aug 21, 2015 12:55:34 GMT
Um, no, I don't think he's exactly expressing admiration for Zimmy by calling her a "thing". While fumbling around some strange space inhabited solely by creatures that dance on the edge of humanities comprehension, would you be quick to assume that some "thing" thats capable of popping up in the middle of some magical vision, that manifests through the image of your dead wife, with its immediate definable features being the shark-like teeth and perpetual eldritch gunk covering their eyes, is, in fact, actually just a person? Its also already well established at this point that Anthony is a complete moron when it comes towards etheric matters. His usage of "thing" isn't out of a heightened sense of disgust for "this being in particular above the others", its out of sheer confusion, ignorance and incompetence. I have to agree on this point. I think it's more likely that he isn't aware of what Zimmy actually is. Neither are we, for that matter- I've always accepted that she's human with some rather strange and/or unfortunate abilities, but it's quite possible that she's not entirely human. And for Tony, who's only met her by etheric means, it might be a little confusing. Besides that, his expression seems to be one of mixed relief and shame on this page. I think he is actually grateful for Zimmy's interference, but he doesn't know enough to actually be grateful to Zimmy herself. |
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Post by justcurious on Aug 21, 2015 13:06:02 GMT
My guess is it has to do with his skepticism of all things etheric we were told about. I'm wondering if he just never really listened to what Surma was trying to tell him until it was too late, and even then most likely did not understand what he was being told. Which is a funny sort of belief in that universe where etheric effects are demonstrable. Not scientific at all in the circumstances. |
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Post by Per on Aug 21, 2015 13:20:49 GMT
My guess is it has to do with his skepticism of all things etheric we were told about. I'm wondering if he just never really listened to what Surma was trying to tell him until it was too late, and even then most likely did not understand what he was being told. Which is a funny sort of belief in that universe where etheric effects are demonstrable. Not scientific at all in the circumstances. Kat's had similar reactions, so maybe it's just some sort of widespread convenient genre blindness. (And now I had to go see if there's a page named "genre blindness" on TV Tropes and had to read a half-dozen pages as punishment.) |
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Post by Deepbluediver on Aug 21, 2015 13:36:13 GMT
And the forum goes wild! Finally something happened in the way we predicted! Well, so now we know he doesn't mistakenly believe Annie cleaned his clock or otherwise caused any of his woes on this misadventure. SO WHY IS HE STILL BEING SUCH A BAG OF SUCK TO ANNIE LIKE THIS? Tony could just be a strict disciplinarian or even simply bad at parenting. I've known people who could be fantastic in every other sense, but had absolutely zero idea how to empathize with or relate to their children. |
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Post by pxc on Aug 21, 2015 14:00:07 GMT
I'm so happy that people have now completely rationalized Zimmy's years-long psychological abuse of Gamma and are heralding her as the best thing. Chances that Anthony will similarly and retroactively transition to best thing once he's settled in as part of Antimony's magical girl support squad and done something useful for her: very high. Oh this should be good. Please explain. |
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Post by AluK on Aug 21, 2015 14:07:44 GMT
I'm so happy that people have now completely rationalized Zimmy's years-long psychological abuse of Gamma and are heralding her as the best thing. Chances that Anthony will similarly and retroactively transition to best thing once he's settled in as part of Antimony's magical girl support squad and done something useful for her: very high. But but but, Zimmy's cool... and Anthony is a jerkface!  |
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Post by ctso74 on Aug 21, 2015 14:10:31 GMT
Girl got some bite. *We would like to apologize for this very unfortunate tangent and we promise that it will not happen again* - The Gunnerkrigg Forum Management There is a scene in Sandman: Season of Mists, involving a pair of amorous demons... and spiders. Where's that brain bleach? Brain Bleach? Depends on how much you like spiders... I'm curious about what happened next. Deerletor and his crew may have just abandoned him, after Zimmy showed up. I imagine she's a bit startling when not expected. "Whoa! Dude. Whoa... You're supposed to be the one dealing in things beyond him. I think it's time to blow this scene. Get everybody and the stuff together." |
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Post by eyemyself on Aug 21, 2015 14:24:38 GMT
I'm so happy that people have now completely rationalized Zimmy's years-long psychological abuse of Gamma and are heralding her as the best thing. Chances that Anthony will similarly and retroactively transition to best thing once he's settled in as part of Antimony's magical girl support squad and done something useful for her: very high. Actually, there's as strong a parallel to be drawn between Gamma's utter devotion to Zimmy despite the fact that she knows Zimmy's habit of gaslighting her to undermine her relationships with other people and Annie's kneejerk defense of her dad no matter what he does as there is with Ys and Coyote. On the flip side we've seen shadow express reservations about Robot's zealot tendencies despite their close connection. It will be interesting to see how that relationship evolves when we shift to a wider world view again. There is a pretty strong theme of the dangers of blind devotion running through GKC. |
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Post by Fishy on Aug 21, 2015 14:43:26 GMT
I recall it being said that the black eyes are a visual metaphor and everyone in the comic actually sees them properly. So even worse than this, seeing your wife turn into your daughter turn into a red eyed burning demon girl with spiked teeth.
Who sucker punches you.
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Post by eyemyself on Aug 21, 2015 15:04:40 GMT
I recall it being said that the black eyes are a visual metaphor and everyone in the comic actually sees them properly. So even worse than this, seeing your wife turn into your daughter turn into a red eyed burning demon girl with spiked teeth. Who sucker punches you. Any chance you have the link to that info? I believe you, but I'd be curious to see the context/source. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 21, 2015 16:23:20 GMT
That Zimmy, always trying to keep the means of productions out of the hands of the workers! She is quite the etheric capitalist, isn't she? I had to google that, sometimes I feel so innocent  Ever google yourself? [edit]And copping a handful.[/edit] Don't think Zimbo even has a handful... Basic anatomy is a requirement for surgeons. I'm sure he could find something somewhere, possibly south of Lichtenstein. Yes!! Zimmy's the best! And she's got one hell of a punch as well! I would have liked this page more if she morphed while Anthony was sloppily slipping her the tongue. [edit]And copping a handful.[/edit] Damn it all!!! What did I just say?!?! Not sure if Anthony would have survived that experience, though. At the best, he would have showed up looking worse than Mad-Eye Moody. Now excuse me while I borrow Daedalus' brain bleach... Nah, Anthony's survival odds for the completed ritual (retrieval/reanimation of undead wife) are what's low. Traditionally, living-Surma morphs into corpse-Surma and tears into the living if not bound with the proper spells. In some fiction that happens quickly but often it's post-2nd-honeymoon. Morphing into a Zimmy that bites off his tongue mid-smoocheroo, punches him in the face, and kicks him a few times is a good medium (heh) between getting off too easy and having his brains eaten. I really, really want to see his face when he encounters Zimmy here, though. And see what Zimmy has to say. Zimmy would probably say "huh" out of mixed feelings because her own parents don't remember her and then give Anthony the finger when he tries to question her about what happened. Which is why it would have been much more interesting if she'd bitten off his tongue in the middle of a snog. Which still leaves us with the question of why he's being such an utter jerk to his daughter, instead of pretty much spoiling her rotten after almost getting her killed. Maybe this is him nice. Here's what I don't understand. How can Tony be this ignorant about Annie and Surma? A lifetime's worth of practice. |
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Post by jombra on Aug 21, 2015 16:33:05 GMT
I have been waiting for this page for like my whole life.
Nah but at least since the start of The Tree.
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Post by stef1987 on Aug 21, 2015 16:39:59 GMT
I'm curious to see how he escaped from the creatures that tricked him,
they don't seem like the kind that would let him live
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Post by Trillium on Aug 21, 2015 16:52:44 GMT
"That thing" isn't a very nice thing to call Zimy I don't know, Zimmy is probably the scariest entity in the Court. The title of 'scariest entity in the Court' depends on your point of view. If you asked Zimmy who the scariest entity is she might say Kat is hands down. Someone else might nominate Reynard and then there's Jones. There are plenty of candidates and we don't even know all the players. Zimmy is just so unique. Her ability to distort reality allowed her to not only tap into a private etheric call, Tony referred to it as a vision, she also manifested in the middle of it physically enough to give Tony a message he could hear and a punch so solid it broke the connection and left a physical scar. Yes, she's scary but she is one of the heroes of this section of the story. The other is Gamma for getting her to help Annie. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 21, 2015 16:55:43 GMT
I'm curious to see how he escaped from the creatures that tricked him, they don't seem like the kind that would let him live I'll speculate they either were never holding him in the first place (they beat him up on general principles on arrival but he refused to leave, or maybe that was just a projection of his own desire to punish himself for his failures) or once the ritual was a flop they had no more use for him. I think #1.2 is most likely. |
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), but I'm nevertheless trying to understand the situation. Perhaps he knows no other way.
