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Post by zbeeblebrox on Aug 14, 2015 7:31:38 GMT
I'm hoping we get a page where Don explains everything that's been happening with Antimony and Kat since she got there. I deeply want Tony to know everything we currently know. Except Don doesn't know what happened re: Annie passing out. In fact, Zimmy is the only person who actually knows what really happened that day. Everyone else forgot. So basically, without going to her, Tony will never know what we currently know. |
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Post by Daedalus on Aug 14, 2015 7:32:35 GMT
I'm hoping we get a page where Don explains everything that's been happening with Antimony and Kat since she got there. I deeply want Tony to know everything we currently know. Except Don doesn't know what happened re: Annie passing out. In fact, Zimmy is the only person who actually knows what really happened that day. Everyone else forgot. So basically, without going to her, Tony will never know what we currently know. It's vaguely possible that Zimmy told Annie at the end of The Torn Sea. We've had important scenes happen off-screen before, albeit not often... His motives are mixed, of course. He's guilty for failing his wife and "letting her die", and wishes to atone to some degree. That's somewhere on the spectrum between selfish and selfless, but not at either end. *special shrug reserved for shades-of-gray situations* In all honesty, I can't really fault him for hoping to avert Surma's death. I tend to find that his fault was unwilling to believe he could be unable to fail and well not using this tragedy as a learning experience. It's easy to see it as a learning experience as an observer, but I don't think any of us could see it that impartially if our significant other had just died, and we saw it as them having died by our hand. |
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Post by speedwell on Aug 14, 2015 7:33:00 GMT
(snip) Would also explain why he is trying to cut off all her contact with the forest and etheric beings like Renard. (snip) I think just the fact that he's been through a lot of etheric and eldritch hassle would be enough to explain that. He would have to be dead not to feel like he had to protect his daughter against the things he was so traumatised by. And who knows what threats against her they made, and what awful things he had to promise. After all, the firstborn child is frequently the target of malign spiritual beings in mythology, religion, and fairy tales. |
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Post by justcurious on Aug 14, 2015 7:33:35 GMT
To do something like this out of misplaced guilt is not something noble. It It is the action of a disturbed obsessed man. And the guilt itself comes from ego. He is going to need a lot of help and he is going to have to learn to recognize that.
This is the second biggest shock in the comic so far. The biggest was the page showing Jones in the Silurian. My jaw literally dropped then.
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keeana
New Member
Bip
Posts: 32
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Post by keeana on Aug 14, 2015 7:33:51 GMT
Tony, you sweet gullible schizoid rabbit-man, you f'd up. I love the poignancy in contrast between this page and in the microsat chapter over whether Tony wanted Annie involved. Very sad! I kind of get the feeling that Tony has never really seen himself as Annie's dad. As her guardian, sure. But not her dad. |
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haspen
Full Member
Hat Kat
Posts: 131
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Post by haspen on Aug 14, 2015 7:33:58 GMT
So he fashioned an antenna out of his right hand's bones? v:
That's metal.
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Post by Refugee on Aug 14, 2015 7:35:10 GMT
edzepp, psybershadow, et al: What we need right now is a good heart-to-heart among all of the characters, - Tony has moment of horror when he realizes he almost killed his daughter. A moment? I think Tony's going to be on the verge of suicide, and that it will take him a long, long time to recover from that. It seems that he had no choice about "cutting off contact completely"; he needed supernatural help to make the phone call, and even that did not go through the route he anticipated. Bang on about how he treated Annie on his return, though. Although I'm beginning to think he was deceived by the entities he's been hanging out with. Maybe they deluded him into thinking that Annie was responsible for thwarting his bone antenna attempt to reach Surma. It's going to be difficult to understand things fully without Zimmy's testimony. I don't think she told anyone other than Gamma how she revived Annie from her coma. Going back to the "moment of horror", if he has been deceived, and almost killed Annie as a result, and if he realizes that he has also been tricked into treating Annie so badly, if he doesn't commit suicide, he's going to be incredibly angry and vengeful. Someone, somewhere, has made an implacable enemy. === I'll also say that what I'm calling "deception" might well be more along the lines of brain-washing. Certainly, his own faults have been used manipulate him, but anyone who thinks that they would not be susceptible to the same kind of manipulation makes themselves vulnerable to it. |
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Post by Daedalus on Aug 14, 2015 7:37:39 GMT
Going back to the "moment of horror", if he has been deceived, and almost killed Annie as a result, and if he realizes that he has also been tricked into treating Annie so badly, if he doesn't commit suicide, he's going to be incredibly angry and vengeful. Someone, somewhere, has made an implacable enemy. Let's hope. That would be a moment of heartwarming after these most melancholy several months. But I doubt it will be so simple, at least for a long while  |
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Post by azraeon on Aug 14, 2015 7:44:40 GMT
I also get the sense that there's something missing in Tony's story, something unrevealed as of yet. Perhaps the missing thing is just time, assuming he's been truthful/perceives and remembers everything that really happened back then. Maybe his mind, memory, and/or judgment has been altered through insidious means, perhaps by the Court or by malignant etheric powers. Or maybe his own psychology is simply fragmented and he doesn't seem consistent. Or maybe time has just led him to this moment, and he is, after everything that happened to him, now a shrewd, unemotional curmudgeon without a fully developed sense of affection or love for his offspring (which is probably compounded by the deep-seated regret he must feel when he sees Annie because she represents how badly he failed to protect the one woman he really loved, and he seems like someone who doesn't fail often when he sets his mind to something). He is cold, methodical, brilliant, and very, very broken.
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Post by basser on Aug 14, 2015 7:52:33 GMT
HAHAHAHA oh my god the sweet, glorious tragedy. So the poor gullible bastard got sweet-talked into a radical autohandectomy by what appears to have been a dead deer and a beetle, and it'll ultimately lead to nothing of value as evidenced by his later describing it as "my own foolishness"? Good christ, that's some freaking weapons-grade angst! Tony has rocketed up the personal character ratings chart to top tier #1 forever.
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Post by justcurious on Aug 14, 2015 8:09:56 GMT
Either Anthony is a consummate liar, an inconsistent justification-spouting manipulator, or he was messing around in something he couldn't even begin to understand. Tony is hopeless at lying and doesn't try. He is also hopeless at spotting lies in others. He is not a skillful manipulator but a very clumsy one. He is too bad at understanding others to be good at any of these. Completely put of his depth is what he is. |
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Post by Daedalus on Aug 14, 2015 8:10:44 GMT
He is cold, methodical, brilliant, and very, very broken. In other words, an interesting character with a lot of room for future characterization/character growth. I look forward to seeing this... I wonder what his relationship with the Court administration is. He doesn't want them spying, but is that just general paranoia or a specific dislike for them? Did they convince him to return to the Court and teach/rein in his daughter, or did he return of his own volition after the failed experiment? |
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elebenty
Junior Member
Better than bubble wrap.
Posts: 83
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Post by elebenty on Aug 14, 2015 8:15:22 GMT
He is cold, methodical, brilliant, and very, very broken. In other words, an interesting character with a lot of room for future characterization/character growth. I look forward to seeing this... I wonder what his relationship with the Court administration is. He doesn't want them spying, but is that just general paranoia or a specific dislike for them? Did they convince him to return to the Court and teach/rein in his daughter, or did he return of his own volition after the failed experiment? Or were they the ones who dressed like warped psychopomps in an attempt to trick Tony into pulling "Surma's" fire from Annie? |
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Post by Daedalus on Aug 14, 2015 8:30:04 GMT
In other words, an interesting character with a lot of room for future characterization/character growth. I look forward to seeing this... I wonder what his relationship with the Court administration is. He doesn't want them spying, but is that just general paranoia or a specific dislike for them? Did they convince him to return to the Court and teach/rein in his daughter, or did he return of his own volition after the failed experiment? Or were they the ones who dressed like warped psychopomps in an attempt to trick Tony into pulling "Surma's" fire from Annie? Doesn't seem like their style. They're more cloak and dagger, not pseudopod and proboscis. But who knows?
Only the great Lord Siddell in his rhinna-tree lair knows.
He knows all. He sees all. Sometimes he speaks.
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Post by corruptuser on Aug 14, 2015 8:31:49 GMT
And since this is not the Omega Device... What the hell WAS that? ^ Rhetorical question... ^
please let it not be a red herring
...and not take another 50 chapters to be mentioned again...
My guess is that it involves the power station (which we haven't heard from in quite a few chapters). Basically, Coyote had said that GC was man's attempt to become gods; the power station sucks out the ether, but to what end? To power the omega device, which basically gives humans the same powers as Coyote. Zimmy is there because the Court plans to channel the ether though her (which may end up trapping her in Zimmingham to die). The real mystery are the Tic-Tocs, who haven't even been mentioned since the Robot King showed up. [/wild mass guess] |
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Post by Trillium on Aug 14, 2015 8:35:11 GMT
The more we hear of this story the worse it gets. I don't know if Tony is going to be on the verge of suicde but right But his grip on sanity is shaky right now. He may be acting cold and controlling because it is ether that or inappropriate crazy laughter. We know the surgery didn't end well or not well as far as what Tony was hoping for. This is such a horror show.
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Post by Daedalus on Aug 14, 2015 8:35:44 GMT
And since this is not the Omega Device... What the hell WAS that? ^ Rhetorical question... ^
please let it not be a red herring
...and not take another 50 chapters to be mentioned again...
My guess is that it involves the power station (which we haven't heard from in quite a few chapters). Basically, Coyote had said that GC was man's attempt to become gods; the power station sucks out the ether, but to what end? To power the omega device, which basically gives humans the same powers as Coyote. Zimmy is there because the Court plans to channel the ether though her (which may end up trapping her in Zimmingham to die). The real mystery are the Tic-Tocs, who haven't even been mentioned since the Robot King showed up. [/wild mass guess] Check out the link in my signature for my spin on a similar concept. Otherwise known as MY signature wild guess. |
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Post by artezzatrigger on Aug 14, 2015 8:40:38 GMT
Antennas made of metal are so passé. Bones are where its at in the fashion of ether. What he said a few pages ago implies he doesn't know Annie knows about what happened to Surma. Which means he would have no reason to believe that was why "Annie"/Zimmy punched him out during the bone laser surgery. However, he got angry when Annie asked him about his hand in his initial appearance. Which makes me think he couldn't tell the difference between them. Implying that hes bitter towards her about it. But what hes been saying makes it sound like he feels terrible about the whole thing and that he deserves whatever happened to him. Next week can't come soon enough. We're getting so many answers now its making me hungry for more. Like, I don't wanna say Tom's pulling a Snape, but I feel similarly in that respect. Its far too early to call it a Snape. Snape never did anything to reconcile with Harry himself before his death, and was openly antagonistic toward him. Anthony is still very much alive, and likely has plenty of time to reconcile with Annie. |
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Post by turniptree on Aug 14, 2015 8:47:05 GMT
Sheesh, Tony. This is getting gruesome. His laughter seems quite unhinged. I can't wait to find out more, unsettling as it is.
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Post by philman on Aug 14, 2015 8:52:09 GMT
Only the great Lord Siddell in his rhinna-tree lair knows. He knows all. He sees all. Sometimes he speaks. Oh Tom, let us hear your sacred words. (Via @gunnerkrigg on twitter) Truly the voice of a hallowed mind... |
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Post by Trillium on Aug 14, 2015 8:56:47 GMT
Its far too early to call it a Snape. Snape never did anything to reconcile with Harry himself before his death, and was openly antagonistic toward him. Anthony is still very much alive, and likely has plenty of time to reconcile with Annie. Shape never got the girl and Anthony did so they are not equivalent. Shape was also not close to being crazy, he was obsessed but not close to crazy. Tony seems very much on the edge of crazy. |
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Post by rafk on Aug 14, 2015 8:59:22 GMT
I think this man might actually be disturbed Oh yes. Deranged was my reaction. The man needs help. He needs to hear from Donny all about his daughter as she really is, what she can do, what she knows. And to accept he needs serious help and is in no fit state to parent or to teach kids. |
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Post by Refugee on Aug 14, 2015 9:34:18 GMT
The more I look at the last frame, the more I think that Anthony didn't amputate his hand before making the antenna out of it.
He flensed himself, to the bone, sharpened the finger tips, and replaced one of his fingers with a scalpel.
This is not the action of a sane man under his own control.
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Post by justcurious on Aug 14, 2015 9:47:42 GMT
There are some amazing specific examples of gentle and sweet and positive love in this comic. The Donlans, Kat and Paz, George and Andrew, Willie and Janet, John and Margo, Jack and Jenny, Bud and Lindsey, Kamlen and Irial, and the friendships of Robot and Shadow, Kat and Antimony, Jones and James, Mort and Antimony, Red and Blue, Anthony and Donald, even Zimmy and Gamma. But there are also so many examples of destructive and disastrous and mismanaged love. Diego toward Jeanne, obviously. Arguably Jeanne and her elf. Anthony and Surma. Reynard and Surma. Coyote and Ysengrin. The ship toward Lindsey. Hetty and the dead sister. Jack toward Zimmy. Anthony and Antimony. The positive examples far outweigh the negative ones both numerically and in importance. But I think it's fair to say that "love can make people do terrible things" is the major theme that led up to this particular chapter. He is so poor at forming human connections that he puts enormous, excessive weight on those that he forms. I could see Surma being attracted to the sheer intensity of Anthony's love once she recognized it. But this led to a very harmful obsessiveness after she did. He was so wrapped up in her and so protective of his opinion of his capability that he abandoned his responsibilities to Antimony. This is a case where what Ysengin said to Antimony was good advice, the bit about not apologizing for what you are not responsible for. And also Ysengrin was the one who talked Antimony out of feeling guilty over her mother's death. He does others an injustice by thinking that they would judge him as harshly as he judges himself |
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Post by justcurious on Aug 14, 2015 9:56:22 GMT
He did Surma a grave injustice in thinking that she would have wanted for him to do this. She would have been appalled both for his sake and for Antimony's.
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Post by antiyonder on Aug 14, 2015 10:05:20 GMT
He did Surma a grave injustice in thinking that she would have wanted for him to do this. She would have been appalled both for his sake and for Antimony's. Pretty much this. As long as Antimony can grow up safe, healthy and happy, then Surma's death isn't completely in vain, but Anthony's actions and refusal to grow from it only makes her death even more pointless. |
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Post by Rasselas on Aug 14, 2015 10:16:38 GMT
(without reading the thread) I knew it. He degloved his own hand.
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Post by calpal on Aug 14, 2015 10:20:46 GMT
Two things.
First, why is this chapter called Annie and the Fire, again?! This has been so much about Tony and his twisted adventure to talk to Surma again, you'd think it would have a more fitting name...
Second, guy would literally give up an arm and a leg to see Surma again. Dedication in a positive light, fucked-up obsession in a negative light, but only a man so possessed by a goal as Tony was would be willing to go this far. Sadly, I'm of the same opinion that whatever Tony did, it opened Annie up to being attacked spiritually by whatever the hell these things were.
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Post by artezzatrigger on Aug 14, 2015 10:30:32 GMT
First, why is this chapter called Annie and the Fire, again?! This has been so much about Tony and his twisted adventure to talk to Surma again, you'd think it would have a more fitting name... This chapter has been leading up to the revelation of Anthony's "antenna", which as far as we know, ended up stabbing Annie's fire in the chest when it was still part of her during Divine. The subject of the fire is going to come up again soon. Edit: Yaaay 100 posts |
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Post by gpvos on Aug 14, 2015 10:44:37 GMT
That is an ungulate's dentition and on the previous page we saw an ungulate's hoof. Coyote is capable of taking such a form but it is not what he would usually do. Could have been Coyotagoat. |
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