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Post by TBeholder on Jul 20, 2015 10:52:45 GMT
It's not about dumping it all somewhere as much as not letting it get to her, so "heat insulation".  I wonder if Zeta could stabilize herself with a blinker stone in likewise manner. She aparently needs lots of ether power thrown at her, either directed (link to Gamma) or ambient (other magical creatures, rainwater), and warps things when it's not enough. Even assuming she can make this ether-sink a separate entity somehow (Annie did "bring to surface" her elemental side a few times, nothing like this with Zimmy), what this could accomplish? Either nothing, or disconnect it from the usual ambient source (the rest of her) and cause Zimmingham Eversion then and there. Is she dying in the same way she would be if she had a child? She is quite lively... physically, anyway. So it works. But Annie seems to drop in to briefly resume contact as often as she can. I'm not sure she could as much as use blinker for remote access if there was some emergency and she couldn't return in time. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 20, 2015 12:20:23 GMT
madragoran it appears she is using the blinker stone as a container for the elemental (and her emotions). That is, she embedded the elemental in the blinker stone. The stone is physically at the heart of the elemental, probably as a metaphor for the core/center/essence. So is everyone in agreement that this seems to be a bad thing overall for Annie's emotional health? I still think she should have used Coyote's tooth, though. Would have been way more symbolic. And it would have given that MacGuffin more a purpose in the storyline  But Tom decided otherwise haha! To me it looks like the hair was actually absorbed into the stone. So perhaps it will return when she comes to grip with her emotional turmoil? Blinker stone is a beginner's tool and Zimmy's powers can affect several square miles. Blinker stone would help zimmy as much as lead underwear would save you from a nuke a lead lined bunker under water actually would probably save you from a nuke. the important thing is distance to ground zero and what barriers interrupt line of sight. I love reading your posts; they always remind me of a haiku. |
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Post by ctso74 on Jul 20, 2015 14:02:27 GMT
Maybe we'll get to see how Annie and MS Fire get along. ... Fight. Fight. Fight! Fight!!Be careful for Annie. She's a hair-puller. madragoran it appears she is using the blinker stone as a container for the elemental (and her emotions). That is, she embedded the elemental in the blinker stone. The stone is physically at the heart of the elemental, probably as a metaphor for the core/center/essence. So is everyone in agreement that this seems to be a bad thing overall for Annie's emotional health? Denying parts of yourself is rarely a good idea(especially if they potentially have minds of their own). But on the other hand, we all have parts of ourselves we keep hidden away to achieve life goals. It's narratively unhealthy for the story. But outside of the story, if it works for her, it works. But back on that first hand, is it really "working" for her? Plus, our hidden selves surface every now and again. What if this happens with Ms. Fires? I doubt this is sustainable in the long term. Maybe I need more hands. Narratively, she's going to recombine, sooner or later. I imagine that's going to be a rough day for her. |
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Bill
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Post by Bill on Jul 20, 2015 14:39:27 GMT
It occurs to me that the reason Elemental Annie could not burn anything is not because she is not physical, but because that's how Annie wanted the Blinker Stone fire to be. If this "no burn" order is being actively maintained by Body Annie as opposed to an initial condition left as a standing order (my understanding of how her fire abilities work), then Elemental Annie may at some point be able to affect things. This also implies that Body Annie still has control of the blinker, and through it, her other half.
This could get interesting.
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Post by nero on Jul 20, 2015 17:11:18 GMT
So how long will it be until Annie can deal with her fire elemental side? Until she passes year 9, until Anthony leaves? The only one who has an idea of what
Annie did to herself is Renard. I hope the chapter keeps going to show what he remembers.
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Post by stef1987 on Jul 20, 2015 17:29:38 GMT
wait, that's it? she cut her hair and tadaah! ? ? ? so she's pretty much doing what the students in foley were doing, I see what? how? no huh? |
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Post by Trillium on Jul 20, 2015 17:49:21 GMT
I hope Annie has someone helping and advising her on how to deal with MS Fire cause she has way too much on her plate.
You know we love to hate her dad, Anthony. He's been missing and out of touch for 2 years. Now having returned he is not exactly a font of unconditional love and support. Most of us want to have a few words with him at the very least. But what I want to know is why Annie's mom Surma did' tell Annie about what was going on or give her some training concerning the elemental. This seems to have been a major oversite on her part.
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Post by rainofsteel on Jul 20, 2015 18:18:18 GMT
Dear Mr. Anthony Carver,
You are by far one of the luckiest men on Earth or Court at the moment. If Annie had not done this, the least you'd have received was a thunderous reply. Personally, I wish Annie had replied, "Forget it," on all counts and with her hair on fire, possibly running you and your sorry good for nothing rear end out of the Court on a rail.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 20, 2015 18:42:26 GMT
I wonder if Zeta could stabilize herself with a blinker stone in likewise manner. She aparently needs lots of ether power thrown at her, either directed (link to Gamma) or ambient (other magical creatures, rainwater), and warps things when it's not enough. Even assuming she can make this ether-sink a separate entity somehow (Annie did "bring to surface" her elemental side a few times, nothing like this with Zimmy), what this could accomplish? Either nothing, or disconnect it from the usual ambient source (the rest of her) and cause Zimmingham Eversion then and there. Sort of. See, I'm thinking mojo quality is as important as quantity for Zeta-stabilization. Gamma doesn't just send power, if she sends power, she bombards Zeta with warm and fuzzy positive thoughts. The duo are a fission pile and a control rod situation but in this case the waste product isn't spent fuel pellets, it's the good thoughts that are no longer useful for binding Zeta's amok powers; that's why they all love her yet are trying to get out of her. Likewise, it's not just the fact that the energy comes down around Zeta in the form of rain, but it's energy from general reality that was evaporated away being returned all at once so she can release her control and relax for a while. So why not use or dump Zeta's power somehow instead of cancelling it? If you can't make an arachnid or insect avatar around the blinker stone for an outlet there are other options. Blast Zimmingham memories and Nobodies and a river of solid Whitelegs right into the ether. Zimaform Mars (more useful that it is now) with blinker stone and big telescope. Make Zeta watch reruns of reality TV, bounce beam off military satellite, materialize tens of thousands of Snookis with icepicks in Tehran. Or just turn it into Birmingham. The possibilities are endless and the more power you use the better her control gets. This whole situation reminds me of a homunculus, or a golem. Only instead of the body being animated by the blinker stone, the elemental appears to use it as a medium to manifest in the first place. Since it was born out of feelings of anger and hatred, does that mean its the only thing its capable of expressing? It seems a little too early to tell. The fact that it stays in the room and doesn't try to escape seems to imply that its either fully capable of reason, or its bound to Annie's commands via the blinker stone, either because of the stones functions or because its bound to something akin to a contract of ownership like Renard and his plush body. The situation reminds me of Yuuko-san from Dusk Maiden of Amnesia. Pretty sure that it's not a good idea to have the fire in it's own form having it's own experiences. |
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freeman
Full Member
That 70's Coyote!
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Post by freeman on Jul 20, 2015 20:14:51 GMT
Betting a wheel barrow of cookies that Annie could just blink the stone back in her hand and the fire returns inside her. As in, "Now I'm pissed!" *blink* *room filled with fire*
Depends on interpretion of this page, if the real blinker stone is inside the fire elemental or if it's a mere reflection of the link that still connects the two.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 20, 2015 21:23:29 GMT
Betting a wheel barrow of cookies that Annie could just blink the stone back in her hand and the fire returns inside her. Sure, at least right now. But what happens to the memories of the fire being stuck alone in the room all those days, unable to touch anything? Solitary confinement plus noncorporeality is an interesting take on cruel and unusual punishment and memories survive death in the Gunnerverse. I'm betting they go flooding into Antimony along with all the feelings she's been channeling into the thing. How many days in there before a person without Antimony's problems would go kookoo for cocoa puffs? And the longer this goes on... |
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 20, 2015 21:53:22 GMT
Maybe we'll get to see how Annie and MS Fire get along. ... Fight. Fight. Fight! Fight!!Be careful for Annie. She's a hair-puller. Neither of them really have hair at the moment, though... *munches on popcorn* Ten bucks on Fire Elemental, Round 3, KO. |
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Post by ctso74 on Jul 20, 2015 23:05:53 GMT
For some reason, when I read that, I wanted that so badly. Less Lu-kthu, and more tons of madness-inducing Leng Spiders. Of course, if people really do live on the Moon, whose to say that Mars is vacant. That would be an interesting Martian morning to wake up to. Where's a Teiichi, when you need one. |
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Sadie
Full Member
I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
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Post by Sadie on Jul 20, 2015 23:11:19 GMT
So is everyone in agreement that this seems to be a bad thing overall for Annie's emotional health? Denying parts of yourself is rarely a good idea(especially if they potentially have minds of their own). But on the other hand, we all have parts of ourselves we keep hidden away to achieve life goals. It's narratively unhealthy for the story. But outside of the story, if it works for her, it works. But back on that first hand, is it really "working" for her? Plus, our hidden selves surface every now and again. What if this happens with Ms. Fires? I doubt this is sustainable in the long term. As with everything in life, there's a point of diminishing returns when it comes to mental coping techniques. Having another “Fire Spike” style napalm event over the situation and in response to her father wouldn’t help Annie or anyone, so arguably, anything she does to prevent that is a step in the ‘right’ direction. But not voicing or sharing her true feelings with anyone means that there’s no chance for their sources to get resolved, no chance for her to receive better advice for dealing with them then from Mr. “I am physically and mentally rotting away because of my devotion to an amoral trickster god” Ysengrin, no opportunity to take down this wall she’s putting between her and her friends. Heck, to take down that wall between her and her dad, even. As a quick fix for a potentially lethal temper, this is sorta ok, but given that she’s using it as a way to play Perfect Daughter, I think it passed that point within the first couple hours. Honestly, the big one for me is how it removes the chance for resolution. I think there’s a tendency to see anger as The Problem that must be dealt with and controlled, when it’s actually an end product of the real problem(s). (Also a tendency to talk like healthfully managing your emotions is something you can learn/teach yourself in isolation, but that’s another discussion.) |
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Post by todd on Jul 20, 2015 23:50:22 GMT
But on the other hand, we all have parts of ourselves we keep hidden away to achieve life goals. It's narratively unhealthy for the story. But outside of the story, if it works for her, it works. But back on that first hand, is it really "working" for her? Plus, our hidden selves surface every now and again. What if this happens with Ms. Fires? I doubt this is sustainable in the long term. Maybe I need more hands. Narratively, she's going to recombine, sooner or later. Of course, we don't know as yet where the story's going or where Tom's intending to take it (beyond his statement that he'd planned this development for a long time). Annie's internal conflict (if an unusual sort - physically ejecting one side of the internal conflict from her body) might be what Tom wants the story to be about for a while, as opposed to Annie and Kat's regular adventures. (Though it can't last too long, of course; the audience will need some variety after a while, and there are many narrative threads that need to be resolved at some point. And Annie's situation needs to be resolved before you can explore the other threads, even if they're threads that she's not crucial to - such as Kat's robot-building work and the religion being built up around her. I suspect that most of the audience will have a hard time focusing on anything else while this part of the story remains unresolved.) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 2:08:39 GMT
So is everyone in agreement that this seems to be a bad thing overall for Annie's emotional health? I've seen the word "amputation" tossed around to describe it, but amputated limbs do not usually retain sentience. What Annie has done was rather more creative than her father's approach to self-development. Tony appears to believe that all impulsive behaviour can be suppressed by reason, that humans must tend to their personalities as if to shave them -- against the grain, of course -- as part of their daily routine. I suppose that similar fantasies of self-purification have led to the creation of Jones: as a vision of the desired result, she is beautiful, wholly self-sustaining, and cannot be remodelled by outside influence, including the Ether. But as with all Etheric creatures, the adored vision may make you lose track of how arduous, even alienating, the process can be for humans. Ironically, Jones has no need to counterbalance her intuitions with morals. Never does she need to change her composure before taking action. Neither does Coyote, for that matter. I find it telling that Coyote, unlike the other members of the canine triumvirate, does not take the shape of an animal in the Ether, but rather appears as endless ribbons of very simple patterns. Perhaps, just as Jones began to understand human nature better by imitation (not because of an immediate threat to her survival, I must note, but because of her curiosity), he began to emulate the behaviour of other animals. To get back to the immediate point, by refusing any respect for the Forest, Anthony cannot discover how closely his approach resembles Ysengrin's. Where Anthony avoids the unpleasant contradictions he finds within himself and distracts himself with work, Ysengrin perceives the contradiction itself as a challenge to face and fight into submission. But while their reactions differ, they are very much alike in perception, because they attempt to exile that which bears no relation to their struggle. In fact, they cannot understand fate at all, and this makes them tragic characters. For instance, Ysengrin went mad with doubt when he couldn't disprove Coyote's theory of the Ether. He took such pride in defeating his "personal demon" that he loathed the possibility of beauty being inspired by a source beyond his access and judgment. If you will, think of how Goneril flatters Lear by claiming she loved him "dearer than eyesight, space and liberty", knowingly naming the powers that Lear fears to lose through inaction; she affects him because he cannot understand the world as not confronting him -- "nothing will come of nothing", by his own accord, may be true if you strictly adhere to the words as a harmless paraphrase of conservation of matter, but masks a darker sentiment with reasonable language. Think of how the Prince of Aragón chooses the silver casket ("Let none presume / To wear an undeserved dignity"). As for Anthony, he cannot fathom that the fate of the fire elemental could not pose a test to his abilities, a scientific riddle for him to solve, or fail the solution of. (We've heard Donald allude to this recently.) That's the seed to his tragedy: he considers it his task to make Annie "responsible for herself" even when neither of them can be held responsible (contrast with Surma's "Sometimes things fall and break"). You know how he confused cause and effect when he vetoed his daughter's visits to the Forest? His error suggests that he overestimates the imprint of opinions and immediate environments on personalities. In truth, people seek out (or invent) environments that their personalities draw them towards, and later develop articulate reasons for their choices, just as Annie developed her affinity with the Forest long before she knew of her ancestry. But Annie has chosen a different approach here: she does not engage the Fire in combat, nor does she diminish or fear its existence. Instead, by splitting off her self-contradictions into a sentient creature that she loves, which I presume from her joyful "You can come down now!", I think she intends to act as a medium to herself. The Tooth did serve as a MacGuffin in the context of Coyote's bind, since it could have been replaced by any other dangerous secret for the purpose of that subplot. Its distinctive properties played no role in the proceedings. Here, by contrast, you're guessing at the future purpose of an object specifically from its established qualities. Edit: I forgot to say "Bazinga" at the end. |
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Post by speedwell on Jul 21, 2015 2:23:39 GMT
Has someone mentioned this before? I took a quick look back through the pages where we see Antimony's cut-off elemental side, and I see no crown over its head. Haven't we nearly always seen this?
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Post by Trillium on Jul 21, 2015 2:32:08 GMT
Bah, cursed pad and spell check.
Coyote's tooth may be too dangerous to use safely.
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 21, 2015 2:43:57 GMT
Betting a wheel barrow of cookies that Annie could just blink the stone back in her hand and the fire returns inside her. Ah, but to use the stone one must have magick... and the elemental is part of her etheric nature. Does she still have what it takes? As in, "Now I'm pissed!" *blink* Uh, wasn't it the whole point to make herself unable to get too upset? But what happens to the memories of the fire being stuck alone in the room all those days, unable to touch anything? Solitary confinement plus noncorporeality It's not like this thing is locked in a lamp. Antimony seems to resume contact every few hours at most. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 21, 2015 3:15:33 GMT
But what happens to the memories of the fire being stuck alone in the room all those days, unable to touch anything? Solitary confinement plus noncorporeality It's not like this thing is locked in a lamp. Antimony seems to resume contact every few hours at most. The whole point of the thing is to put the bad stuff into the fire elemental. Antimony's contact probably gives her some time with the fire to keep her health bar up but I doubt she's downloading memories. |
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Post by calpal on Jul 21, 2015 4:15:37 GMT
So... we are dealing with a Horcrux-esque situation here? Makes me wonder what would happen if that stone should somehow end up in Jeanne's hands once more, or - *gasp* - the stone is destroyed while Annie's Fire-Spirit still lies within?
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Post by crater on Jul 21, 2015 5:00:26 GMT
wait, that's it? she cut her hair and tadaah! ? ? ? so she's pretty much doing what the students in foley were doing, I see what? how? no huh? I like to think Annie is using a pretty high level of magic. She is using some sort of ritual spell to cut off a part of herself she finds hard to deal with. But maybe splitting personalities is something natural for a fire elemental and the hair is metaphor? |
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Post by mishyana on Jul 21, 2015 5:34:10 GMT
madragoran it appears she is using the blinker stone as a container for the elemental (and her emotions). That is, she embedded the elemental in the blinker stone. The stone is physically at the heart of the elemental, probably as a metaphor for the core/center/essence. So is everyone in agreement that this seems to be a bad thing overall for Annie's emotional health? I wouldn't say so, necessarily. It was probably not the healthiest choice she could have made, but she does seem to have some ulterior motives beyond just being able to handle being around her emotionally abusive wretch of a father without flying into a screaming rage. Whether it works out how she wants, and what the ultimate blowback of whatever her plans are for her relationship with her friends remains to be seen. |
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Post by arf on Jul 21, 2015 6:05:36 GMT
So why not use or dump Zeta's power somehow instead of cancelling it? The Court invited Zeta (and Gemma) in so they could investigate that possibility. The results of their research have yet to be published, although the Robots appear to have obtained some extracts. |
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elebenty
Junior Member
Better than bubble wrap.
Posts: 83
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Post by elebenty on Jul 21, 2015 6:57:37 GMT
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 21, 2015 20:05:41 GMT
So... we are dealing with a Horcrux-esque situation here? Makes me wonder what would happen if that stone should somehow end up in Jeanne's hands once more, or - *gasp* - the stone is destroyed while Annie's Fire-Spirit still lies within? In theory Antimony might be faced with the truly unique situation of having to guide herself into the ether then wait for someone to guide her into the ether... with no time travel involved in all this whatsoever. |
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Post by scottjm on Jul 21, 2015 21:56:41 GMT
madragoran it appears she is using the blinker stone as a container for the elemental (and her emotions). That is, she embedded the elemental in the blinker stone. The stone is physically at the heart of the elemental, probably as a metaphor for the core/center/essence. So is everyone in agreement that this seems to be a bad thing overall for Annie's emotional health? What in her current situation is not a bad thing for her emotional health? To me everything feels like the court set out to destroy her emotionally, and found something the could use to attack her without Annie being able to fight back properly. Nothing done is an appropriate response to her cheating, and any group as dedicated to science as the court claims to be has no excuse to not have enough understanding oh Psychology and Childhood development to understand that htis is doing much more damage then good. Annie was publicly humiliated, then ostracized from pretty much all her friends, and reduced to very limited contact with the what 3 she still has. She has no positive emotional support or guidance from anyone other then those 3 people. |
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Post by Trillium on Jul 21, 2015 23:55:10 GMT
So is everyone in agreement that this seems to be a bad thing overall for Annie's emotional health? What in her current situation is not a bad thing for her emotional health? To me everything feels like the court set out to destroy her emotionally, and found something the could use to attack her without Annie being able to fight back properly. Nothing done is an appropriate response to her cheating, and any group as dedicated to science as the court claims to be has no excuse to not have enough understanding oh Psychology and Childhood development to understand that htis is doing much more damage then good. Annie was publicly humiliated, then ostracized from pretty much all her friends, and reduced to very limited contact with the what 3 she still has. She has no positive emotional support or guidance from anyone other then those 3 people. At least no support that we know of. Annie's room is very useful in giving her a good space to deal with MS Fire; who is quarantined within that space by some combo of the blinker stone and Annie's cut hair. Is the room a coincidence or part of a benign plan to help Annie? If so then who helped? As for externalizing MS Fire, it could be a stop gap maneuver to give her some breathing room in learning how to deal with her fire elemental while working with and around her dad. In the short term it keeps destruction from breaking forth in a firery rage. If she doesn't have to do it for weeks on end it could work. Annie publicly set herself against court wishes when she accepted Coyote's invitation to become the Forest's representitive. She only got better at handling her abilities in the following chapters. Bringing in Anthony to rein in his daughter seems a natural move. If they know she is working to uncover Jeanne's secrets and how to release her they might be willing to take decisive action to block Annies efforts. |
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Post by todd on Jul 22, 2015 0:26:51 GMT
If they know she is working to uncover Jeanne's secrets and how to release her they might be willing to take decisive action to block Annies efforts. Which is a big "if". The Court doesn't even know about Jeanne (thanks to the Founders excising her from the archives), so it could hardly be aware of Annie's investigating her. |
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Post by todd on Jul 22, 2015 0:28:25 GMT
Nothing done is an appropriate response to her cheating, and any group as dedicated to science as the court claims to be has no excuse to not have enough understanding oh Psychology and Childhood development to understand that htis is doing much more damage then good. I have the suspicion that the Court focuses on the physical sciences, engineering, etc. rather than on the "human behavior" area of science. |
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But Tom decided otherwise haha!
