dreki
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Post by dreki on Jun 17, 2015 11:56:59 GMT
I suspect on the next page he'll forbid Annie from spending any time with Kat. He may not need to - Annie may be getting fed up with Kat at this rate. Dangit, Kat - can't you see beyond your own hatred of Tony to how you're inadvertently punishing Annie? She wanted a nice dinner out with you and your family too. I agree, it's very possible. Kat has been ignoring Annie's requests constantly about all this, and Annie was already feeling insecure about their friendship because of Paz. (wonder how Paz feels about all this) They've had a few large fights, neither of them handle them especially well. This is going to be compounded by the fact that they no longer see each other in class and I doubt they're allowed too many social visits. At the same time, Kat is her dearest friend- so I could also see Tony trying to forbid Annie to speak with Kat as being the final straw. I'm really curious what the breaking point is going to be, there's going to be one. There are no excuses for Mr Carver. He is a manipulative, abusive SOB. "Oh all he does is powered by love. Maybe he is trying to save his daughter. He is socially inept." Those two aren't exclusive. As was pointed out before- a lot of abusers truly believe they're in the right. I haven't seen anyone say that Anthony's actions are justified and non-abusive. From what I've seen, we all agree that he's in the wrong and needs to stop. But abuse can actually be fueled by love, and in some ways it's the hardest abuse to break out of. It's very confusing to have someone who genuinely loves you, genuinely tries to do the right thing, but constantly hurts you and refuses to do better. Anthony is the only parent Annie has left. It's a lot easier (but still incredibly hard!) to realize that someone who blatantly says they hate you and want you dead is abusive and you need to cut ties than to cut ties with someone who loves you and is trying their best, their best just isn't good enough. If Tony does care for Antimony and is doing this out of a very misplaced love- it adds a heart-wrenching layer to this for everyone. It's also a very, very accurate depiction of abuse. And even if Tony does resent Antimony (I believe he does- I don't believe he loves her, or at least I believe his resentment overpowers it), that doesn't make him pure evil. He has very good, albeit horrific and misguided, reasons to resent Annie and he does seem to be trying to do right by her. It's just hard to do right by someone while you resent them and wish they'd never been born. Annie still doesn't deserve it in the slightest and Tony would do better to just walk out of her life- but it's still not cut-and-dry evil. It's a heartbroken man who doesn't know how to bond with the child who killed his wife but is still trying (failing) to be a father. It's much easier to see abusers as 2-dimensionally evil. That's very rarely the case. Making Tony into 2-dimensional evil wouldn't be especially good writing, and it wouldn't be terribly accurate. Abusers are human. They have hopes and dreams, they love, they care. Many of them are charismatic, they have close friends, they have jobs where they do well, they can be highly regarded members of their community. They aren't a different species- and virtually anyone is capable of abuse if put in the wrong circumstances. Treating abusers as pure evil doesn't help victims- it makes it harder to recognize abuse. It makes it harder for those who know the abuser to accept that their friend/co-worker/loved one is abusive, cutting support off from the victim, and it makes it harder for the victim to accept they're being abused. He may not need to - Annie may be getting fed up with Kat at this rate. Dangit, Kat - can't you see beyond your own hatred of Tony to how you're inadvertently punishing Annie? She wanted a nice dinner out with you and your family too. I blame Tony more for the dinner being ruined than Kat. It's objectively Tony's fault. An adult should be able to navigate a sulky teenager's feelings and should plan in more than an hour for catching up with friends like this (or warn everyone if they have to leave super early). It's not about whose fault it objectively is. It's about what Annie's going to think and feel about all of this. At the same time, Kat also should be able to respect Annie's wishes and feelings. There are far better ways to handle this than confronting Tony like this (in fact, confronting Tony like this is one of the worst ways to handle it). The Donlans put confronting Tony over giving Annie a nice, pleasant evening with friends. Yes- Tony is still at fault, he ruined the dinner, but Donny and Kat could have chosen actions that would've been better for Annie. And someone has to! Donny really, really, really should have waited until he could talk to Tony privately before confronting him. Tony is ultimately at fault, but that doesn't make Kat and Donny's actions the right ones. |
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Post by rinabean on Jun 17, 2015 13:00:54 GMT
Annie is so immature! She does this to Kat too often, something better comes along and the Donlans are dirt. The first time she was younger and she'd had a massive bombshell dropped on her so it was understandable but this is plain rude. She can't keep turning away from Kat and still expecting her to be there when she finally decides to turn back. I always thought it would be some big court/forest thing that would split them apart, then I thought it could be Kat's research, Annie's medium position, or even Paz, or anything, I never thought it would be Annie's horrible behaviour but now I do. She's old enough to be her own woman and not treat people the way her dad treats her
Annie always alternates between being cold and blowing up and Kat and her parents have put up with it all this time because of what she's been through but no matter how nice they are I can't see their patience lasting forever. I can't see them ever being nasty to her, but if someone throws it in your face too many times you give up caring about them.
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Post by Daedalus on Jun 17, 2015 13:08:10 GMT
He is aware. ... and Annie's just given Kat the brush-off. It's noticeable that Annie follows his orders when he's there (as in this page) but is more inclined to rebel when he's not there (eg giving Kat control of Rey), indicating that she is either afraid of Anthony or afraid of him being disappointed in her. We already know this, but it's a confirmation that her fear overcomes her connection to Kat. Not good.
Quoth one of my friends:
I already have an answer to this question of course, but I'm curious how you all would respond to this blanket statement.
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Post by pendell on Jun 17, 2015 13:39:20 GMT
I don't understand why Daedelus' question is in spoiler box but I'll put my response in the same.
I'd say he's done quite a bit wrong, and most of it is due to his social ineptness.
1) Disappears from his daughter's life without reason or excuse. Even a few gentle words and sympathy would not be amiss even if you can't tell her exactly where you're going, what you're doing, or how long you'll be gone.
2) When he re-enters her life, he has absolutely nothing to give her save criticism. I challenge you to find a point where he said one kind word to her.
3) Deliberately isolating her from all her friends under the pretext of academic achievement. This is counterproductive; the right kind of friends can help spur academics , rather than holding you back.
4) Having isolated and emotionally abused Annie, he immediately flees when confronted by peer adults about his behavior -- pulling Annie back into his own private hell. And she's going along with it. Somehow her father has completely broken her spirit -- at least when he's around.
He may assist her academically, but he's also going to make her a psychological and social wreck.
So yes. I have many problems with Tony's actions. That doesn't mean that, tactically speaking, Kat's and Donnie' actions were especially wise. You don't want to jerk the line when the fish is nibbling -- you have to wait until it's firmly bit and on the hook. Their actions were premature, and instead of being constructive, scared him off. It'll be much harder to reach either Antimony or Annie now. I also hope this puts to bed the wish that Kat will somehow go ballistic and use magic powers to destroy Antimony or some such nonsense. Force at this point will cause Annie to defend her father, and alienate her further. Besides which ... we know what Kat looks like in the ether but I don't think we should assume she is the most powerful, most terrible being in the room. Who knows what her parents or Antimony look like in Paz-vision ? Respectfully, Brian P. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jun 17, 2015 13:52:34 GMT
pendell: it's just something I do with postscript-like statements. Personal typing quirk 
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Post by Kitty Hamilton on Jun 17, 2015 14:01:04 GMT
Ugh. I almost would have respected Anthony more if he'd held his ground. At least that would show some kind of conviction. Instead he fled like a coward. That makes it look like he knows he's done wrong, but doesn't have the guts to own up to it.
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Post by deuswyvern on Jun 17, 2015 14:38:39 GMT
Ugh. I almost would have respected Anthony more if he'd held his ground. At least that would show some kind of conviction. Instead he fled like a coward. That makes it look like he knows he's done wrong, but doesn't have the guts to own up to it. He's definitely a coward, but I don't think he knows he has done something wrong exactly. This is just how he has dealt with every conflict that has ever entered his life. Probably the reason why he tries to dominate Annie so much. That said, I don't see him as having conditioned or brainwashed Annie into obeying him. I think her obedience says more about her than him. She's hoping that if she keeps pretending this is a good relationship it will eventually turn into one. Tony is just assuming she will listen to him because she always has in the past. I'll add that it should not really surprise anyone that Annie is leaving. Most people don't want to watch their best friend fight with their dad. |
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Post by guitarminotaur on Jun 17, 2015 14:50:01 GMT
What the hell is going on?
That's... the only thing I have to say about this. On one hand, did I catch the faintest hint of... regret over these last few pages? On the other...
...damn it. Hard to read, that one is Like a book, he is not. Information, we need more of.
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Post by philman on Jun 17, 2015 14:59:21 GMT
Well, Anthony did do one thing: He made it clear that he is not apologising in any way for his absence. *sigh* In other news, folks, I am probably going to be off from the forum here, maybe from reading the online comic for a while. I had so been looking forward to Traveller, but when I saw it had come out I had this feeling of, "Blech, I can't take any more of this," even though I am pretty sure that the mini-comic is not related to the nastiness going on in the main story, much less the people who rationalise and defend it here. So, better to potentially get back to enjoying the comic again. Anyhoo, be well all, and maybe see you around again! Who's defending the nastiness? I see people trying to work out why Tony is doing this without relegating him to pure evil, but that's about it. This comic has no black or whites, there are no purely flawless characters and there are no purely evil ones. And even if Tony does resent Antimony (I believe he does- I don't believe he loves her, or at least I believe his resentment overpowers it), that doesn't make him pure evil. He has very good, albeit horrific and misguided, reasons to resent Annie and he does seem to be trying to do right by her. It's just hard to do right by someone while you resent them and wish they'd never been born. Annie still doesn't deserve it in the slightest and Tony would do better to just walk out of her life- but it's still not cut-and-dry evil. It's a heartbroken man who doesn't know how to bond with the child who killed his wife but is still trying (failing) to be a father. I this this is a good summary. Personally I am thinking of Tony a bit like Snape from the Potter books. He has some sort of hidden motivation in there somewhere, but from the outside it looks like he is punishing Annie for the sake of being nasty. and his resentment of her over Surma's death is preventing him from having any compassion or empathy towards her at all. |
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Post by atteSmythe on Jun 17, 2015 15:39:13 GMT
I don't think she is conditioned, I think she is just a little naive. She wants her dad back and everyone to be happy ever after. That is the conditioning! Bears repeating: |
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Post by machival on Jun 17, 2015 15:59:37 GMT
Quoth one of my friends:
I already have an answer to this question of course, but I'm curious how you all would respond to this blanket statement.
My response would be to laugh. Anthony's entire parenting style is what he's done wrong. Antimony is starved for affection, her father encourages maladaptive social behaviors and emotional repression, and Antimony seems to have self-esteem issues that largely exist within the context of her own father's potential disapproval, suggesting that Anthony handles disappointment in his daughter extremely poorly. (And if how he approached the cheating is any indicator, he prefers punishment without commiseration or inquiry, utterly failing to find out why she cheated) Not to mention that he doesn't bother to tell Antimony that he'll be away for some time (he didn't have to explain, just telling her would have been a vast improvement over what he did), doesn't even try to provide for Antimony's emotional needs, and likely blames Antimony for something that is his and Surma's fault. (Surma died because she chose to kill herself through reproduction, Surma died because Anthony chose to kill her through reproduction) |
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Post by pxc on Jun 17, 2015 16:02:23 GMT
Not surprised Tony is ending things. And I guess I'm not surprised at Annie not appreciating Kat's defense of her. I just wonder what the walk home will be like. Will Tony even be angry? Will he appreciate that Annie took his side and obeyed immediately? If he does, will he communicate that to her? Will he forbid her from seeing Kat and the Donlans? Or will the camera stay in the Donlan household once the Carvers (weird to say that) are gone? If, after taking her father's side immediately, Tony is still just as harsh with Annie, will she finally start to question her loyalty to him? So many questions. Glad it's not a Friday update.
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Post by machival on Jun 17, 2015 16:03:59 GMT
Not surprised Tony is ending things. And I guess I'm not surprised at Annie not appreciating Kat's defense of her. I just wonder what the walk home will be like. Will Tony even be angry? Will he appreciate that Annie took his side and obeyed immediately? If he does, will he communicate that to her? Will he forbid her from seeing Kat and the Donlans? Or will the camera stay in the Donlan household once the Carvers (weird to say that) are gone? If, after taking her father's side immediately, Tony is still just as harsh with Annie, will she finally start to question her loyalty to him? So many questions. Glad it's not a Friday update. Personal bet is that Anthony and Antimony will walk home in silence, with antimony wishing she could hold her father's hand. |
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Post by ih8pkmn on Jun 17, 2015 16:06:41 GMT
Does this guy have a single redeeming quality? As it stands, at best, he's a two-dimensional jackass who bullies his daughter into submission for no good reason, brushes off two people who used to be his best friend and his wife's best friend, and has taken away everything from Antimony. I could maybe, maybe accept that all this was justified if it was the Court who put him up to this; the Headmaster seems to be gunning (heh) for having Reynardine in his possession for some reason.
But as of right now: Anthony Carver isn't just a bad person and a bad parent, he's also a bad villain, in the sense that he's poorly-written. All the vagueness in Tom's writing is fine when it comes to the mysteries of the Court and the Forest- they are supposed to be mysteries, after all- but when it comes to trying to write a human character, being vague and mysterious about what their motivations are doesn't make me want to keep reading, it makes me want to stop entirely.
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Sadie
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Post by Sadie on Jun 17, 2015 16:10:16 GMT
My first thought on this page was "there it is" - Annie picking sides. Argh, this is giving me major flashbacks.
A lot of the talk about what Annie does and doesn't want and everyone's failure in listening to her are missing the bigger picture.
Annie wants to make up for disappointing her father and not drive off or be abandoned by him (again). The core fear is normal enough - all kids inherently fear abandonment, but when raised in a safe and trusting environment, they come to accept that they won't be abandoned and if they are, it wasn't their fault and they'll be fine regardless. This apparently wasn't the case with Annie and now Anthony's behaviors keep her in a constant state of hyper-vigilance. He's always got one foot out the door and she has to be aware of his every mood and need and signal so that she can keep him happy (read; 'not mad at me') and prevent him from leaving.
In short, what Annie would want most is for Kat (and the Donlans) to participate in pleasing and placating Anthony with her. Don't make waves, don't risk attracting Tony's ire, trust that Renard is safe enough with him, let his treatment of Annie go unquestioned and unchallenged; all things that fly in the face of Kat's personality, personal integrity, and the very love and respect for Annie that make her such a good friend. This is another facet of why people in shitty relationships end up so isolated. Good friends aren't going to help them enable and excuse someone who's mistreating them.
None of this is to say that Annie doesn't need someone to listen to all her thoughts and feelings, acknowledge them and discuss them with her. She absolutely does. What she doesn't necessarily need is to have them accommodated.
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Post by nero on Jun 17, 2015 16:43:58 GMT
And then as Anthony reaches for the door knob he staggers and drops to the floor unconscious. The Donlans have laced his food with a sleeping potion. He wakes up in a dimly lit room and the only other person in the room is Eglamore...
That would never happen, but I think later Annie will use the walkie talkie to apologize to Kat, saying if Anthony doesn't want to talk he just won't talk. I hope Donald will find a way to talk to
Anthony in private and learn at least one thing. Maybe Zimmy heard about Annie's haircut and will visit Kat. Zimmy learned to never leave a job before finishing it.
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Post by hp on Jun 17, 2015 16:53:18 GMT
Maybe Tom is pulling a Snape plot twist here and later we will see Anthony's reasoning, LAUGHING ON LINE.
I find it difficult to believe Anthony is that unidimensional, like he simply dried on the inside after Surma's death and is being mean to Annie because he blames her. Or that he has no love for anyone and simply sees Annie as means to something he wants. In a flashback long ago Surma says to Annie "He still loves you", and she didn't seem like someone who would be mistaken about such things.
Remember, Surma died because she gave her life to her daughter and Annie is destined to the same fate. Anthony was researching something while away, I'd bet it's not only Court's business... He's trying to save Annie.
Kat's father even helped Anthony with something (can't recall exactly what) after figuring his message to Annie had coded instructions. Annie was upset that Anthony's call had other reasons than just talking to her. So Mr. Dolan tells her that Anthony had lots of ways of delivering that message directly to him, and his choice to "use" Annie is his crazy way of showing he cares about her (something like that)
So I'd wildly guess Anthony's behaviour towards Annie is deliberate, but for good purposes (in a "she can't have emotional attachments because she'll die faster" sort of thing) handled in a calculistic bastard way.
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Ombre
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Post by Ombre on Jun 17, 2015 17:02:45 GMT
No, no, no, no, no !... Things getting worse and worse  No, wait, seriously, he is manipulating her. Her emotions, her desire to get a father back and her guilt for cheating on Kat's work, yes, of course. But I grow more and more convinced that there is more at work here. Some kind of, not magic of course, but technical... immaterial... wibbly-bobbly... manipulation. Some technical device, maybe ? Satellites ? Tic-toc birdies ? Both ? I'd give much for a view of Annie's psyche right now, just like Zimmy saw it several chapters ago. No doubt it would be horrible to be looking at. |
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karl
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Post by karl on Jun 17, 2015 17:11:36 GMT
Quoth one of my friends:
I already have an answer to this question of course, but I'm curious how you all would respond to this blanket statement.
In short, when keeping to the first part of "The Tree", he did everything wrong. Well, let me get started then with some general statements and then I'll move on to "that day": 1) His absence for two years. 2) His absence for two years immediately after his wife's and Antimony's mother's death. I can't stress that one enough - one parent dies and the other one takes off without any meaningful explanations at all. 3) Non-consensual procedure done on Antimony. His actions on the day he came back. One by one they might not be big things, but they add up. I've divided them into smaller pieces. First of all during class, also known as The Day of The Unprofessional Teacher: 4.1) Antimony learned of him being back when he introduced himself in the class as their teacher. 4.2) Singling her out on make-up (I think it's pretty obvious that other girls also had make-up applied to them). Using the world "ridiculous" for the same make-up style his wife and her mother used. 4.3) Saying that the class will sit in silence until Antimony returns. Also known as everyone is waiting for you. Bonus points for "you've delayed your classmates for long enough". 4.4) Not giving her the book she'd need for that very same lesson. Refusing to give her the book when she asks about it. After class, also known as the famous Carver One-Two-Three punch (TKO guaranteed!): 5.1) Brushing off her daughter's concern about his well-being, effectively saying that what he is doing and has done has nothing to do with her. 5.2) The way he brought up the matter of his cheating (The first punch, the hook to the head. A hook is the one that comes from the side, right?). 5.2.1) First of all, expressing disappointment as if he had expected something of her although I'm sure he has not made his expectations clear. 5.2.2) No questions about why she cheated. This is important to determine the problem which caused her to resort to cheating. Was the material too hard? Did she have too little time? Was the hospital-schooling not enough to prepare her for school? 5.2.3) Giving out the sentence (repeating year 9, I'll get to the other things) again without any input from Antimony. Again, this is important - no objections allowed, no discussion, just giving out the sentence like a judge, jury and an executioner all in one. 5.2.4) Immediately threatening Antimony's friend when she tries to emotionally object. 5.2.5) BONUS ROUND: Not allowing Antimony continue that days classes everything is effective immediately. Also she has to move out and live independently. It's not like this could actually add any stress to her life, there's no-one to turn to in case of problems or anything, completely stress-free. Heck, at that point in time there is probably nothing at all inside her new home. (That sentence before the last one - I actually think the opposite of what I wrote.) The Forest (also known as the punch to her face):
6.1) Calling her workplace and her work "nonsense". Despite the fact that the relations of the Forest and the Court are regarded as important. The Court has a position for mediating the relationships after all. 6.2) Telling Antimony not to go to the Forest. Despite the fact she works for them. And that she is a Honorary Citizen of the Forest. And that she has duties and responsibilities there. And no objections detailing any of the above are allowed. Renard (the punch to the gut): 7.1) "I understand that you have some sort of control over him" and then a dramatic break which allows Antimony's imagination run wild. At this point I do not care that he might just have wanted to breathe in or anything. Or that there might not have been a dramatic break in their discussion. 7.2) "That control will be passed to me". Antimony is forced to give up and away her trusted friend and a sort of a father-figure who is coincidentally also a person who has brought up the matter of Antimony cheating. Once again - no objections are allowed. Give away your friend. And with that the three punches are complete and Antimony is down for the count. This is what Anthony did wrong - everything. In itself the concerns he has are valid however the way he dealt with them is not. He is acting on incomplete information, denies any objections, does not even care about the reasons she has and he's quite unprofessional as a teacher. Did he do it without any malice, did he do it with malice but he didn't know about it or that he did it deliberately out of malice? Interesting questions, true and I also want to know about what goes on inside Mr. Carver and why he decided that the way he approached the problems like that but the damage was done in a very effective way. Another thing that came to my head - he is a doctor right? And he knows or at least suspects that he has some problems regarding human relationships right? Why not seek out some literature on that matter? |
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Post by machival on Jun 17, 2015 17:13:44 GMT
I'd love nothing more than Mr Carter and Annie opening the Donlan's front door and seeing a massive crowd of students, robots and certain Court figures just sitting there. Just to let Annie know that they're rooting for her. And letting Carter know that if he continues to treat Annie as he does, he's going to end up as such fine paste that they'll never find a trace of him ever again. That evil John Carter, always supporting those fucking martians. |
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Post by antiyonder on Jun 17, 2015 17:18:26 GMT
So I'd wildly guess Anthony's behaviour towards Annie is deliberate, but for good purposes (in a "she can't have emotional attachments because she'll die faster" sort of thing) handled in a calculistic bastard way. Perhaps, but one could argue that a long, miserable life makes death seem more inviting. |
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Post by goldenknots on Jun 17, 2015 17:32:29 GMT
I don't feel that Antimony's demeanor or actions show any independent initiative when Anthony is present. In his absence she was able to work with Kat to shift Renard's "ownership", but I've yet to see anything of her personality showing in his presence. Some etherical device, ala Seraph robots' tags, but short range influence as opposed to some physical talisman?
Maybe Anthony has an etherical zapper focused on Antimony, suppressing her will, in other words.
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Post by wnassau on Jun 17, 2015 17:33:42 GMT
Hey! Long time lurker, made an account because this arc has been so well-done, and the responses to it have been really interesting.
IMHO, a lot of the confusion over Annie's behavior in the last two chapters has been because the comic has, until now, treated her as an adult. She's taken on responsibilities that a modern 16-year-old would not be trusted with, and acquired powers that don't exist in the real world.
So, when people see her suddenly deferring to this strange man, I think a lot of them reach for models that apply to abuse between adults. It's easy to forget that real children are deferential to their parents. Take a proud, confident child and have their mom or dad call them out publicly, and suddenly their entire demeanor changes - it's all "yes mom, yes dad." It can be a shocking transformation for friends to witness, but this is a pretty normal response for a kid.
I definitely think Anthony is being intentionally cruel to Annie to indulge his own emotional self-absorption. Parents can be cruel. And he is her parent - Tony raised her for thirteenish years before he sent her off to boarding school. I don't think Annie's acting like some sort of Stockholm-syndrome brainwashing case. Yes, the whole emotionless-mask-thing is creepy, but that's been Annie's creepy thing since day one.
I wonder whether people would have the same reaction if Tom replaced Tony with a cruel mother figure, a Miss Havisham- or Umbridge-like character - someone who didn't bring up shades of male-female abuse.
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Post by deuswyvern on Jun 17, 2015 17:42:59 GMT
While Tony probably does resent Annie a little due to Surma's death, I think it is probably more relevant to how Annie deals with her father than the other way around. It is something that Annie already feels a lot of guilt over, so she may see winning him over as a way of redeeming herself for her mother's death. I think that Tony's behavior has more to do with his failure to learn healthy ways of dealing with people than any blame he might place on Annie. His relationship with Surma was probably something he stumbled into by accident, and is now unable to replicate it or understand how it happened.
It just feels a bit trite for it to be all from Surma's death.
I don't think that he's a master manipulator either. Everyone who sees Annie and Tony's interactions gets mad at tony, a cunning manipulator would make an attempt to put up a normal front in public. And when you get down to it a smart manipulator would not leave her alone for three years, after all time away from him is time that could be spent building independence.
He's acting with such confidence with Annie, not because he knows the exact formula to control her, but because he expects her to act in the way she has always acted around him. He basically expected that all his relationships would be the same after three years absence, unless you really believe that he went to the Donlans to eat half a steak and let them know he was doing "work." Yes, he tries to control Annie but he's not particularly clever or subtle about it. He's a paper tiger that only has as much power as Annie gives him.
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Post by Daedalus on Jun 17, 2015 17:51:54 GMT
Maybe Anthony has an etherical zapper focused on Antimony, suppressing her will, in other words. This started as wild spec. I kind of hope it's true, though I suspect it's not, because it would make solutions to this problem a lot more immediate and simple. Does this guy have a single redeeming quality? As it stands, at best, he's a two-dimensional jackass who bullies his daughter into submission for no good reason, brushes off two people who used to be his best friend and his wife's best friend, and has taken away everything from Antimony. I have faith that Tom will make him a non-flat character. As it stands now, though, we haven't seen anything redeeming (at least, nothing concrete). His argument about Renard seems valid on the surface, but he knows that Annie has lived with Rey for upwards of two years and is still alive, and it makes no sense for him NOT to consult the Donlans (since that is what he did with Brinnie). To me, at least, it is clear that he has some ulterior motive for taking Rey which is certainly not his daughter's well-being. And as I have said from near the beginning, of course Tony will have reasons for what he does. He's not a sadist (probably). But I very, very much doubt that his reasons will be at all sufficient to justify the major emotional and psychological damage done to Annie in these last few chapters. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jun 17, 2015 18:15:15 GMT
I suspect on the next page he'll forbid Annie from spending any time with Kat. He may not need to - Annie may be getting fed up with Kat at this rate. Dangit, Kat - can't you see beyond your own hatred of Tony to how you're inadvertently punishing Annie? She wanted a nice dinner out with you and your family too. This page is a pretty textbook scene of why you don't confront abusers in front of the abused. The abused almost always side with their abuser. |
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Sadie
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Post by Sadie on Jun 17, 2015 18:17:08 GMT
I definitely think Anthony is being intentionally cruel to Annie to indulge his own emotional self-absorption. Parents can be cruel. And he is her parent - Tony raised her for thirteenish years before he sent her off to boarding school. I don't think Annie's acting like some sort of Stockholm-syndrome brainwashing case. Yes, the whole emotionless-mask-thing is creepy, but that's been Annie's creepy thing since day one. I wonder whether people would have the same reaction if Tom replaced Tony with a cruel mother figure, a Miss Havisham- or Umbridge-like character - someone who didn't bring up shades of male-female abuse. Well, as a lady who had an abusive mother... yes. While I find your note that people are reacting to this like it's abuse between adults interesting, I think the inherent power imbalance in parent-child relationships is actually what's upsetting some people MORE about Anthony's actions toward Annie. Like now, Anthony's being rather cold to his friends, but Donald is an adult who isn't beholden to Anthony and doesn't have to put up with him if he doesn't feel like it. Donald could kick Tony out of his house and the worst consequence for him is not having Anthony as a friend anymore. Annie kicks Tony out of her life, and she loses her last living parent -- and her sole source of financial support. This makes a big difference. Ah ha, but Annie has been steadily losing the mask. That's been a big part of her story-arc and character growth; opening up emotionally. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jun 17, 2015 18:17:21 GMT
I suspect on the next page he'll forbid Annie from spending any time with Kat. There is a sinking pit-like feeling in my chest that says you're probably right. It's entirely possible that Anthony manipulated the situation to produce this outcome, too. Truly isolating Annie means separating her from her closest friend, and the only way to do that is put Annie in a situation where she chooses it instead of Kat. What better way to do that than to take advantage of a dinner invitation where you can make inflammatory statements that are guaranteed to rile up a teenager past the point of discretion? |
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Post by atteSmythe on Jun 17, 2015 18:20:26 GMT
It's entirely possible that Anthony manipulated the situation to produce this outcome, too. Truly isolating Annie means separating her from her closest friend, and the only way to do that is put Annie in a situation where she chooses it instead of Kat. What better way to do that than to take advantage of a dinner invitation where you can make inflammatory statements that are guaranteed to rile up a teenager past the point of discretion? I don't think Anthony is capable of that level of emotional insight. |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Jun 17, 2015 18:23:27 GMT
It's entirely possible that Anthony manipulated the situation to produce this outcome, too. Truly isolating Annie means separating her from her closest friend, and the only way to do that is put Annie in a situation where she chooses it instead of Kat. What better way to do that than to take advantage of a dinner invitation where you can make inflammatory statements that are guaranteed to rile up a teenager past the point of discretion? I don't think Anthony is capable of that level of emotional insight. Just like how I'm incapable of long-term planning. Oh. Wait. |
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