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Post by hnau on Jun 12, 2015 13:42:10 GMT
Hm... It just occurred to me that there is another way this can go. Donald: Tony, where the hell have you been? Anthony: I will explain. *lapses into unintelligible code that only he and Donald can understand* Donald: I see. That makes perfect sense. I completely understand. Now what were you saying about Kat? Cue the comments section and forums exploding. 'And what did you did to your hand' in the third panel should be 'and what did you do to your hand'. Donald is speaking in code. The food on his plate is some kind of one time pad - also explains why he isn't eating anymore. </ConspiracyTheory> |
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Post by ctso74 on Jun 12, 2015 13:57:16 GMT
That's some face, Kat. It makes sense that Tony would consider his failed attempt to perform an etheric procedure (the bone lasers) on Annie his "own foolishness". We know Tony doesn't have patience for the etheric. That makes me think of few things... 1. Tony blames himself for the loss of his hand and probably the damage to his face. He isn't blaming Annie or some etheric entity he hasn't identified (Zimmy). This shows that he is capable of taking responsibility for his failures. He has internalized his failure so much that he says it is no one else's concern, even though what ever he was doing to Annie is obviously her concern. 2. If the scientific approach failed on Surma, and Tony's attempt to use an etheric approach failed on Annie, then what alternative approaches are left? Would he try an etheric approach again, or has he concluded that any etheric approach is foolishness? 3. Has Tony given up on saving Annie from her fate? Is he struggling with the possibility that the only thing he can do is sterilize his daughter so the parasitic fire elemental can't claim another generation? Is he considering that just denying the fire elemental another generation may not be not sufficient and he may have to sacrifice Annie to kill the fire elemental? I guess Tony is still completely obsessed with "saving" his daughter while at same time still afraid of something. Last time he used untraceable satellite, this time he is playing pretense of not loving his daughter. But late at night all he does is stare at her homework because that is all he has of her. Gunnerkrigg Court wanted control of Renard and Annie not going into forest before Tony, I guess Tony is afraid of the Court and pretending to please them. Court likely has dark secret parallel to Coyotes as part of their "wanting to be gods" (as coyote describes them) Tony might be secretly proud of his daughter for not losing her temper or betraying Renard. I don't think that would keep him from talking with Annie in private. Unless his and Annie's "Renard" conversation was pretense for Kat, he hasn't had such a talk with her. Although, secret emotional motives and crap-poor social skills aren't mutually exclusive. I wish I could believe he's secretly in anguish over his behavior, but I can't think of a good reason that he wouldn't privately sit Annie down, and calmly and bluntly explain things to her. He could simple be a bad farther, like many others. Occam's razor and all. Unless the fire elemental has a mind of its own, and sabotaged his work with Surma. Then he'd have every reason to be a sneak. But with no indication of that... |
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Post by Señor Goose on Jun 12, 2015 14:23:34 GMT
Come on Donny, don't let up. Lay it on him.
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Post by Deepbluediver on Jun 12, 2015 14:34:56 GMT
Dayuuum, Donald Donlan doesn't pull any punches. Which I'm endlessly grateful for. I can easily imagine yet more dancing around the issue and trying not to tread on his toes or privacy. He's been suspected of being up to something, he's just admitted being up to something, and now he needs to answer for it all. I don't think Tony has actually admitted anything that we didn't already know- that he was working on something he wants to keep quiet. But I am in agreement that SOMEONE is finally not just keeping up the polite silence regarding these matters and is actually confronting Tony. |
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Post by Rasselas on Jun 12, 2015 14:45:59 GMT
Ok, I haven't read the entire thread yet, so maybe someone's already mentioned it.
But it occurs to me - what about Annie's accomplishments?! I hope Anja or Donnie list all of Annie's accomplishments to Tony. Perhaps they weren't academic, like Kat's, but she managed to talk to Forest gods and even befriend them. She opened up and smoothed over the diplomatic relations between the two sides! She got chosen their ambassador! And... she survived learning that she was the reason her mother died. No wonder her grades suffered when her only living parent abandoned her. But in other ways she'd developed admirably.
I doubt Anja or Tony would list those as accomplishments as they're all wary of the Forest. But I wish they would.
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jocobo
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Post by jocobo on Jun 12, 2015 15:03:48 GMT
So, several things: Didn't the Donlans know that Anthony can only use one hand, and if they knew, why would they make something like steak which needs two hands to eat properly? Didn't Kat tell them? No matter who of them cooked, it doesn't seem like something they would do on purpose. Steak can be cut up and eaten one handed. One of the things amputees are taught are coping mechanisms and strategies for how to accomplish tasks they might have traditionally done with 2 hands instead with one handed. The fact that Tony seems to not know these things actually stands out as a clue. It means the amputation is really recent and he hasn't had time to learn how to operate basic activities in his day to day life with it or maybe that he did scalpel it off himself and therefor never had any kind of physical therapy or rehabilitation in which to learn those things. |
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quark
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Post by quark on Jun 12, 2015 15:25:56 GMT
So, several things: Didn't the Donlans know that Anthony can only use one hand, and if they knew, why would they make something like steak which needs two hands to eat properly? Didn't Kat tell them? No matter who of them cooked, it doesn't seem like something they would do on purpose. Steak can be cut up and eaten one handed. One of the things amputees are taught are coping mechanisms and strategies for how to accomplish tasks they might have traditionally done with 2 hands instead with one handed. The fact that Tony seems to not know these things actually stands out as a clue. It means the amputation is really recent and he hasn't had time to learn how to operate basic activities in his day to day life with it or maybe that he did scalpel it off himself and therefor never had any kind of physical therapy or rehabilitation in which to learn those things. Scalpel as a verb, love it  Also, you could be right, that's maybe the reason why Donald is pointing it out |
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dreki
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Post by dreki on Jun 12, 2015 15:36:07 GMT
I wish I could believe he's secretly in anguish over his behavior, but I can't think of a good reason that he wouldn't privately sit Annie down, and calmly and bluntly explain things to her. He could simple be a bad farther, like many others. Occam's razor and all. Unless the fire elemental has a mind of its own, and sabotaged his work with Surma. Then he'd have every reason to be a sneak. But with no indication of that... The best kind of twist is the one that, prior to it, you truly had no way of knowing- but in hindsight is completely obvious. Tom's a good neough writer I can believe he's playing with us. It'll be interesting to see where things go. Also, even if it's not the fire elemental, there are many who Tony may be worried about. We've already seen that the ether can be used to eavesdrop on people, even far away, and Annie is still fairly new at it. I doubt she could hide things as well as she may think. Coyote or another forest dweller would seem like the more obvious concern if he needs to sneak at that level. Ok, I haven't read the entire thread yet, so maybe someone's already mentioned it. But it occurs to me - what about Annie's accomplishments?! I hope Anja or Donnie list all of Annie's accomplishments to Tony. Perhaps they weren't academic, like Kat's, but she managed to talk to Forest gods and even befriend them. She opened up and smoothed over the diplomatic relations between the two sides! She got chosen their ambassador! And... she survived learning that she was the reason her mother died. No wonder her grades suffered when her only living parent abandoned her. But in other ways she'd developed admirably. I doubt Anja or Tony would list those as accomplishments as they're all wary of the Forest. But I wish they would. If Tony has a similar view of the forest that much of the court does, that may not be a very good thing to play up. Don't forget that her accomplishments with the forest have come at the detriment of her academics and has increased her disobedience. With as dim a view of the forest as much fo the Court has, it's a little like finding out your teenager has been skipping school to party at a frat. Sure, she's managed to befriend the frat guys and has a pretty prominent role and may have improved relations in some ways, pretty impressive for a teenager around college students. But at the end of the day, she's still skipping school to party at a frat. (and given that Coyote's first interactions with her involved sticking his face up her skirt and she apparently had something going on in the forest- not entirely inappropriate comparison) A lot of her more impressive accomplishments are things that I doubt they have any knowledge of. The work with the robots, shadow, Jeanne, the forest, a lot of this is stuff that they keep fairly hush-hush, even from Kat's parents. They may know just enough to suspect she's up to much more and be proud of what she and Kat are getting up to, but I doubt it's enough to brag about her in the eyes of her father. So, several things: Didn't the Donlans know that Anthony can only use one hand, and if they knew, why would they make something like steak which needs two hands to eat properly? Didn't Kat tell them? No matter who of them cooked, it doesn't seem like something they would do on purpose. Steak can be cut up and eaten one handed. One of the things amputees are taught are coping mechanisms and strategies for how to accomplish tasks they might have traditionally done with 2 hands instead with one handed. The fact that Tony seems to not know these things actually stands out as a clue. It means the amputation is really recent and he hasn't had time to learn how to operate basic activities in his day to day life with it or maybe that he did scalpel it off himself and therefor never had any kind of physical therapy or rehabilitation in which to learn those things. Hm, good point. There are also some people who'll just refuse to learn out of sheer bull-headedness, but it is very possible, given Tony being who he is, that he's just never gotten actual help. He's a very skilled doctor (or so we've been told), I imagine he could manage to amputate his own damaged hand, heal the wound, and get a basic prosthesis without any input from outsiders. If Kat liked him more, I'm sure she would leap at the opportunity to grow a functional prosthesis for him. Unfortunately for Tony, I don't think she'd be willing to do anything for him. |
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Post by nero on Jun 12, 2015 15:47:18 GMT
Once you meet Zimmy its hard to forget her. I wonder how losing his hand makes Anthony feel considering how this is one failure he can't forget.
If only the Donlans had put some kind of poison in his food and could bargain the truth for the antidote.
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Post by Vilthuril on Jun 12, 2015 16:01:10 GMT
Good start, Donald! Keep after it, and particularly the effect his absence - and more so his abusive and blaming behaviour since returning - have had on his daughter. "No, Anthony, you don't get to drag all your daughter's dirt into the open and repeatedly slap her around about it emotionally and socially, while hiding everything about yourself that played into her problems and refusing to publicly take any responsibility or make amends for anything you yourself have done."
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esc7
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Post by esc7 on Jun 12, 2015 17:35:45 GMT
Steak can be cut up and eaten one handed. One of the things amputees are taught are coping mechanisms and strategies for how to accomplish tasks they might have traditionally done with 2 hands instead with one handed. The fact that Tony seems to not know these things actually stands out as a clue. It means the amputation is really recent and he hasn't had time to learn how to operate basic activities in his day to day life with it or maybe that he did scalpel it off himself and therefor never had any kind of physical therapy or rehabilitation in which to learn those things. Hm, good point. There are also some people who'll just refuse to learn out of sheer bull-headedness, but it is very possible, given Tony being who he is, that he's just never gotten actual help. He's a very skilled doctor (or so we've been told), I imagine he could manage to amputate his own damaged hand, heal the wound, and get a basic prosthesis without any input from outsiders. If Kat liked him more, I'm sure she would leap at the opportunity to grow a functional prosthesis for him. Unfortunately for Tony, I don't think she'd be willing to do anything for him. Another thing pointing to no physical therapy (therefore recent self amputation) is how bad his handwriting is in this page: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1487Proving, again, Tom misses no detail. |
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Sadie
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I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
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Post by Sadie on Jun 12, 2015 18:32:40 GMT
  Well, at least he's consistent at shooting himself in the foot. If the parallel is being played through, this enforces the idea that Anthony is an emotional wreck on the inside. Let it out, buddy. You're doing no one any good here. |
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Post by darlos9d on Jun 12, 2015 18:37:34 GMT
Anthony's face next to Donnie's face is so freaking weird TONY YOU HAVE TOO MUCH FACIAL DETAIL.
Also he looks like Feels Guy in these panels. And I don't mean he kinda looks like Feels Guy I mean he looks EXACTLY like Feels Guy. It's freaking weird.
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freeman
Full Member
That 70's Coyote!
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Post by freeman on Jun 12, 2015 20:32:59 GMT
I'm honestly expecting Tony to just get up and leave with Annie. Depends. There are questions where standing up and leaving is an answer enough in itself, such as: "Why Didn't you and Surma never tell Antimony... you know - what she is?"Unless Tony will pull this (badly named) trope: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlatEarthAtheist |
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Post by stef1987 on Jun 12, 2015 22:03:30 GMT
If the parallel is being played through, this enforces the idea that Anthony is an emotional wreck on the inside. that's probably true |
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Post by TBeholder on Jun 12, 2015 23:32:02 GMT
Sure. " Hello, fellow hyu-mans. I had work. On a job. Compensated with money. To pay for my very typical hyu-man domicicle." (That last line delivered in a surly grump that implies a little more needling will winkle it out of him.) Quite possibly, but right now he still looks like a Marx & Zakmar grade fake. I don't know whether or not he'd refer to personal endeavors as "work". No, no, those are " matters to attend". |
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Post by deuswyvern on Jun 13, 2015 2:19:47 GMT
I'm not sure if this is the right word, but I'm wondering if this is supposed to an intervention for Tony?
Either way, since the situation with Annie is currently untenable I expect that Donny will get Tony to make some concessions,(perhaps letting Annie continue her work as a medium,) and we will gain more insights into Tony's personality. As to his past actions and current objectives we will get nothing but hints.
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Post by puntino on Jun 13, 2015 6:05:45 GMT
I find it amazing how people don't give a dime about Anthony's situation. He's been a terrible father to Annie? Overall, yes, even if only acting on behalf of her discipline and knowledge. But I still don't get how such a thing can blind everyone to the fact that he is heavily, heavily damaged. It's been clear from his very first appearance that his very detailed face is there only for the sake of showing how weak and broken he is. Really, look at the shape of his head, he's so thin he doesn't even look like a proper human. It's not proportional. He lost his hand. He sits countless hours without eating. He has a very scarred face. Donny may be worried about Annie? Sure, but he has a friend in front of him who might just as well be dying. I would first focus at the so called "abuser" to see why does he look so demolished to then see if that is what is causing his crazed behavior. Maybe his condition is what makes he want to speed things up so much and cause harm, even if unwanted, to Annie. Anthony generates rage and hatred, I know that much, but he's too complex of a character for people to just characterize him as a "pure plain evil" man.  |
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Post by FrozenFT on Jun 13, 2015 7:20:20 GMT
I find it amazing how people don't give a dime about Anthony's situation. He's been a terrible father to Annie? Overall, yes, even if only acting on behalf of her discipline and knowledge. But I still don't get how such a thing can blind everyone to the fact that he is heavily, heavily damaged. It's been clear from his very first appearance that his very detailed face is there only for the sake of showing how weak and broken he is. Really, look at the shape of his head, he's so thin he doesn't even look like a proper human. It's not proportional. He lost his hand. He sits countless hours without eating. He has a very scarred face. Donny may be worried about Annie? Sure, but he has a friend in front of him who might just as well be dying. I would first focus at the so called "abuser" to see why does he look so demolished to then see if that is what is causing his crazed behavior. Maybe his condition is what makes he want to speed things up so much and cause harm, even if unwanted, to Annie. Anthony generates rage and hatred, I know that much, but he's too complex of a character for people to just characterize him as a "pure plain evil" man. I don't think very many people are characterizing him like that, it's just that a lot of us think that regardless of his personal circumstance nothing justifies the way he has treated Annie and the damage he is doing. Many bullies, abusers etc. did have a bad childhood or have psychological issues that cause their behavior, but the priority is still to help the people they hurt, not the one doing the hurting. It's the difference between a reason and an excuse. |
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Post by antiyonder on Jun 13, 2015 7:23:08 GMT
I find it amazing how people don't give a dime about Anthony's situation. He's been a terrible father to Annie? Overall, yes, even if only acting on behalf of her discipline and knowledge. But I still don't get how such a thing can blind everyone to the fact that he is heavily, heavily damaged. It's been clear from his very first appearance that his very detailed face is there only for the sake of showing how weak and broken he is. Really, look at the shape of his head, he's so thin he doesn't even look like a proper human. It's not proportional. He lost his hand. He sits countless hours without eating. He has a very scarred face. Donny may be worried about Annie? Sure, but he has a friend in front of him who might just as well be dying. I would first focus at the so called "abuser" to see why does he look so demolished to then see if that is what is causing his crazed behavior. Maybe his condition is what makes he want to speed things up so much and cause harm, even if unwanted, to Annie. Anthony generates rage and hatred, I know that much, but he's too complex of a character for people to just characterize him as a "pure plain evil" man. Maybe he's not pure evil, but nonetheless having it rough doesn't give one a free pass to treat others poorly or misbehaving. And really, I think a kid's well being takes priority over an adult. |
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quark
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Post by quark on Jun 13, 2015 13:29:42 GMT
I find it amazing how people don't give a dime about Anthony's situation. He's been a terrible father to Annie? Overall, yes, even if only acting on behalf of her discipline and knowledge. But I still don't get how such a thing can blind everyone to the fact that he is heavily, heavily damaged. It's been clear from his very first appearance that his very detailed face is there only for the sake of showing how weak and broken he is. Really, look at the shape of his head, he's so thin he doesn't even look like a proper human. It's not proportional. He lost his hand. He sits countless hours without eating. He has a very scarred face. Donny may be worried about Annie? Sure, but he has a friend in front of him who might just as well be dying. I would first focus at the so called "abuser" to see why does he look so demolished to then see if that is what is causing his crazed behavior. Maybe his condition is what makes he want to speed things up so much and cause harm, even if unwanted, to Annie. Anthony generates rage and hatred, I know that much, but he's too complex of a character for people to just characterize him as a "pure plain evil" man. Let's put it like this - abusive behaviour doesn't become non-abusive behaviour just because we understand the reasons behind it. Anthony is damaged, but even before his three-year-stunt to who-knows-where he didn't treat Annie very well. He didn't show her love - Surma had to reassure her daughter that her father still loved her. No matter what the reason is, and if it's understandable at all - his treatment of Annie is abusive. Maybe he can't act any other way, and he might be in dire need of help, but that doesn't change anything, at least related to Antimony. If he is allowed to continue, she will be hurt even more. The first priority is stopping the abuse. After that, you can start healing, but only after that. |
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Post by darlos9d on Jun 13, 2015 23:06:38 GMT
The best villains have an understandable history.
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Post by antiyonder on Jun 14, 2015 2:15:37 GMT
The best villains have an understandable history. True, but if they are to be forgiven or viewed in a respectable fashion, it should be on the merit that do the right thing in the end (through just means providing that Anthony is operating on good intentions currently) and not because they had it bad. |
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Post by stclair on Jun 14, 2015 17:26:11 GMT
"You had a daughter."
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Post by Daedalus on Jun 14, 2015 18:28:36 GMT
"Emphasis on 'had', because we're adopting her." pleasepleaseplease? |
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Post by Rasselas on Jun 15, 2015 2:15:59 GMT
I find it amazing how people don't give a dime about Anthony's situation. He's been a terrible father to Annie? Overall, yes, even if only acting on behalf of her discipline and knowledge. But I still don't get how such a thing can blind everyone to the fact that he is heavily, heavily damaged. It's been clear from his very first appearance that his very detailed face is there only for the sake of showing how weak and broken he is. Really, look at the shape of his head, he's so thin he doesn't even look like a proper human. It's not proportional. He lost his hand. He sits countless hours without eating. He has a very scarred face. Donny may be worried about Annie? Sure, but he has a friend in front of him who might just as well be dying. I would first focus at the so called "abuser" to see why does he look so demolished to then see if that is what is causing his crazed behavior. Maybe his condition is what makes he want to speed things up so much and cause harm, even if unwanted, to Annie. Anthony generates rage and hatred, I know that much, but he's too complex of a character for people to just characterize him as a "pure plain evil" man. I agree that people aren't paying enough attention to Anthony's state, despite how crucial it is as the origin of his behavior. I don't think we should justify his behavior, but trying to understand it would be much more interesting than harping on and on about how big an abuser he is. It's obvious, and it doesn't tell us anything new. The problem is that in order to understand him, we must feel a bit of empathy towards his situation. Nobody wants to feel like they're a bad guy for empathizing with the bad guy. I personally think that truth is more important than being on the "right" side. |
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Post by antiyonder on Jun 15, 2015 2:56:51 GMT
I find it amazing how people don't give a dime about Anthony's situation. He's been a terrible father to Annie? Overall, yes, even if only acting on behalf of her discipline and knowledge. But I still don't get how such a thing can blind everyone to the fact that he is heavily, heavily damaged. It's been clear from his very first appearance that his very detailed face is there only for the sake of showing how weak and broken he is. Really, look at the shape of his head, he's so thin he doesn't even look like a proper human. It's not proportional. He lost his hand. He sits countless hours without eating. He has a very scarred face. Donny may be worried about Annie? Sure, but he has a friend in front of him who might just as well be dying. I would first focus at the so called "abuser" to see why does he look so demolished to then see if that is what is causing his crazed behavior. Maybe his condition is what makes he want to speed things up so much and cause harm, even if unwanted, to Annie. Anthony generates rage and hatred, I know that much, but he's too complex of a character for people to just characterize him as a "pure plain evil" man. I agree that people aren't paying enough attention to Anthony's state, despite how crucial it is as the origin of his behavior. I don't think we should justify his behavior, but trying to understand it would be much more interesting than harping on and on about how big an abuser he is. It's obvious, and it doesn't tell us anything new. The problem is that in order to understand him, we must feel a bit of empathy towards his situation. Nobody wants to feel like they're a bad guy for empathizing with the bad guy. I personally think that truth is more important than being on the "right" side. Ehh. Plenty of people deal with their share of problems/grief/turmoil and the like without victimizing or mistreating others. If anything, those who do wrong to others because of past problems basically reflect poorly on the better portion. Best way to get sympathy is to do right by others and not putting other people on the spot. |
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Post by Chancellor on Jun 15, 2015 6:19:15 GMT
"Emphasis on 'had', because we're adopting her." pleasepleaseplease?I would probably pedal across the sea on a little pink tricycle to thank Tom in person if they did and Annie agreed. |
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Post by Rasselas on Jun 15, 2015 7:02:01 GMT
I agree that people aren't paying enough attention to Anthony's state, despite how crucial it is as the origin of his behavior. I don't think we should justify his behavior, but trying to understand it would be much more interesting than harping on and on about how big an abuser he is. It's obvious, and it doesn't tell us anything new. The problem is that in order to understand him, we must feel a bit of empathy towards his situation. Nobody wants to feel like they're a bad guy for empathizing with the bad guy. I personally think that truth is more important than being on the "right" side. Ehh. Plenty of people deal with their share of problems/grief/turmoil and the like without victimizing or mistreating others. If anything, those who do wrong to others because of past problems basically reflect poorly on the better portion. Best way to get sympathy is to do right by others and not putting other people on the spot. You misunderstood completely. I'm saying, let's understand why he's doing it, and if we have to empathize with him in order to understand his perspective, so be it. Whether Tony gets sympathy for his problems is irrelevant to finding out the truth. |
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Post by antiyonder on Jun 15, 2015 7:11:51 GMT
Ehh. Plenty of people deal with their share of problems/grief/turmoil and the like without victimizing or mistreating others. If anything, those who do wrong to others because of past problems basically reflect poorly on the better portion. Best way to get sympathy is to do right by others and not putting other people on the spot. You misunderstood completely. I'm saying, let's understand why he's doing it, and if we have to empathize with him in order to understand his perspective, so be it. Whether Tony gets sympathy for his problems is irrelevant to finding out the truth. True enough. It's just that Puntino's opening sentence: "I find it amazing how people don't give a dime about Anthony's situation." Sounded like it was a suggestion of cutting Tony some slack. |
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