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Post by stef1987 on Jun 1, 2015 17:38:21 GMT
Too early to take bets on whether Rey will jump into Anthony's body in self-defence at some point? Arguably Kat's order leaves that open. If there's one thing that would threaten to shatter the relationship between Annie, Kat and Rey, it would be that. Even in genuine last ditch self defence. I am not sure Rey would even consider "being" Anthony. It'd really, really need to be a hairy situation. I think Rey has left the body snatching bit behind him anyway. While I do agree that Rey has no intention to do any more body snatching, I think that if he were to take over anyone, it would be Anthony. Rey already sees Annie as his daughter (sort of), and hates Anthony (and thinks he's a lousy father), I'm pretty sure he would love to be Annie's father. |
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Post by pxc on Jun 1, 2015 17:58:48 GMT
Rey is not dumb enough to try and physically become Annie's father. No he doesn't like Anthony, no he doesn't think Anthony is a good father or that the guy has any business being in Annie's life. That doesn't mean he would try to take Anthony's body. He knows better at this point.
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Post by matoyak on Jun 1, 2015 18:12:52 GMT
And if Anthony dies, Kat will be guilty of murder. No, she would not. She'd be no more guilty of murder if she'd given Rey a handgun and said "If someone tries to hurt you, protect yourself with this." If Rey chooses to loosely interpret that, that's on Rey. And if he did have to use the pistol to protect himself, that's self defense and on the person harming him be the consequences. |
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Post by pendell on Jun 1, 2015 18:30:40 GMT
I can hardly think of any situations in which Reynardine would be forced to use lethal force in self-defense. The fact that Kat put in no such restriction, and gave him permission to "do whatever is necessary", implies that she HOPES Reynardine will do something if it can somehow be construed as "necessary".
Essentially, she's taken down all the safeguards standing between Reynard and Anthony's horrible death save Reynard's own conscience and sense of self-preservation. Not at all different from letting a Mafia hit man out of prison, giving him a gun, and telling him to "do what is necessary".
If violence ensues, it is INDEED on Kat. She willfully and deliberately removed the safeguards between Anthony and a being who has already proven itself a killer. It's pretty obvious what she intends to happen -- the only question is whether Reynardine is smart enough to catch the implied message, and if he is, whether he's willing to follow through with it.
Respectfully,
Brian P.
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Post by aline on Jun 1, 2015 18:39:01 GMT
Rey is not dumb enough to try and physically become Annie's father. No he doesn't like Anthony, no he doesn't think Anthony is a good father or that the guy has any business being in Annie's life. That doesn't mean he would try to take Anthony's body. He knows better at this point. Totally agree. Rey has learned the hard way that killing is a very poor way to get someone's love. He also knows that harming Anthony would deeply hurt Annie, and he loves her too much to hurt her out of greed or spite.
The fact that Kat put in no such restriction, and gave him permission to "do whatever is necessary", implies that she HOPES Reynardine will do something if it can somehow be construed as "necessary". Essentially, she's taken down all the safeguards standing between Reynard and Anthony's horrible death save Reynard's own conscience and sense of self-preservation. Not at all different from letting a Mafia hit man out of prison, giving him a gun, and telling him to "do what is necessary". Safeguards are only necessary with people you don't trust. Kat doesn't need to word carefully because she trusts Rey to make the right decision for the situation at hand. And so do I.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jun 1, 2015 18:58:17 GMT
And if Anthony dies, Kat will be guilty of murder. No, she would not. She'd be no more guilty of murder if she'd given Rey a handgun and said "If someone tries to hurt you, protect yourself with this." If Rey chooses to loosely interpret that, that's on Rey. And if he did have to use the pistol to protect himself, that's self defense and on the person harming him be the consequences. Reynardine is a handgun. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Jun 1, 2015 19:15:02 GMT
I don't know why everyone's so sure this is going to end with Tony mauled to death or something. Rey's smarter than that.
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anisky
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Post by anisky on Jun 1, 2015 19:19:20 GMT
I can hardly think of any situations in which Reynardine would be forced to use lethal force in self-defense. The fact that Kat put in no such restriction, and gave him permission to "do whatever is necessary", implies that she HOPES Reynardine will do something if it can somehow be construed as "necessary". Essentially, she's taken down all the safeguards standing between Reynard and Anthony's horrible death save Reynard's own conscience and sense of self-preservation. Not at all different from letting a Mafia hit man out of prison, giving him a gun, and telling him to "do what is necessary". If violence ensues, it is INDEED on Kat. She willfully and deliberately removed the safeguards between Anthony and a being who has already proven itself a killer. It's pretty obvious what she intends to happen -- the only question is whether Reynardine is smart enough to catch the implied message, and if he is, whether he's willing to follow through with it. Respectfully, Brian P. Soooo, you haven't read the past 1400 pages of the comic, huh? |
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Post by speedwell on Jun 1, 2015 19:26:02 GMT
Rey is under Kat's LEGAL (etheric) control, but under Annie's control of his own pure will and emotional attachment. The fact that his body belongs to Kat doesn't prevent his heart from being Annie's. Besides, it's not divided loyalties anyway. Kat would never directly order Rey to harm Annie's father, and in fact she gave him permission to defend himself in terms that made it clear what Annie wanted.
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Post by stef1987 on Jun 1, 2015 20:22:04 GMT
Rey is not dumb enough to try and physically become Annie's father. No he doesn't like Anthony, no he doesn't think Anthony is a good father or that the guy has any business being in Annie's life. That doesn't mean he would try to take Anthony's body. He knows better at this point. I'm not saying he wants to do that, or that he is going to, I'm saying if he would take someone's body, he would mind the least taking Anthony's. |
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Post by sable0aria on Jun 1, 2015 21:17:11 GMT
I don't know why everyone's so sure this is going to end with Tony mauled to death or something. Rey's smarter than that. My feelings exactly. I really just can't see Rey ever intentionally doing anyhting to harm Anthony, Rey is probably more aware than anyone the affect that would have on Annie, and would not do that to her. Escaping and hiding out somewhere in the court,(under protection of robots maybe?) I can totally see him doing. |
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Post by jombra on Jun 1, 2015 21:21:20 GMT
Tony's death isn't off the table because this comic is for all ages. It wouldn't be particularly violent and lots of children's shows deal with character death. Heck, HTTYD2 had an onscreen death of Stoick by Toothless, Hiccup's best friend.
I don't think Rey would really go for it first thing, but I'm worried about Anthony's abilities.
Like if Anthony is capable of fighting off Renard and preventing his escape. We don't know Anthony's full capabilities, so it's possible. If Renard is left with only two options, attempt to possess Anthony or perish, would he choose to do it?
it's gonna be down to Renard's survival instinct vs. his morals.
WHICH IM REALLY WORRIED ABOUT AND THINK ABOUT A LOT
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Post by Gulby on Jun 1, 2015 21:40:46 GMT
No chance Renard would kill Anthony. He'd run first. He knows how much Surma's death still hurts Annie, he's not going to kill her other parent even if the guy is terrible. I don't know, we've seen how Rey has practically become a father figure to her over the years. He can be just as protective of her as anyone. I think that, somewhere, Tom has already stated that he wanted to keep the story all-ages. From my pov, that means that Rey CAN'T kill Anthony. Maybe, yeah, harm him in a minor way, and only while defending himself against Tony, but that's all. I don't agree. Friendly for all ages means no scenes of outright gore and violence, or anything explicit or swearing, etc. there can still be death though. We have seen death before on this comic, although all off-screen. It wouldn't surprise me if we see a showdown and then Rey limping in afterwards saying something like "Annie, I have done something terrible". Death, yes, but of someone that we already knew was dead (Jeanne)(the sentence doesn't sound right, sorry for bad english T_T), or someone we didn't know/happened to know (Daniel, Sivo). Not the heroine's father, and not from the hands (well, paws) of a friend. (Did I say I was an hopeless optimist ?) Edit : shoot, ninja'd, and with a good counter-example. -__-' |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jun 1, 2015 23:35:18 GMT
Allow me to summon the spirit of Alistair Cooke...
Join me for another episode of Gunnerkrigg Masterpiece Theater. Unlike most murder mysteries, the murder at Gunnerkrigg Court has not occurred yet and questions swirl around who is going to get it, how are they going to get it, and who is going to give it to them. In a previous episode we learned that Anthony, Antimony's absent father, has returned to the Court and appears to be the person who is going to get it. We've just learned that Katrina Donlan, Antimony's closest friend, has given the Demon Reynardine carte blanche to do whatever it takes. Reynardine, Antimony's confidant, certainly seems to have method, motive, and opportunity. Now watch as the events unfold on Gunnerkrigg Masterpiece Theater.
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Post by smjjames on Jun 2, 2015 1:16:39 GMT
I don't know, we've seen how Rey has practically become a father figure to her over the years. He can be just as protective of her as anyone. I don't agree. Friendly for all ages means no scenes of outright gore and violence, or anything explicit or swearing, etc. there can still be death though. We have seen death before on this comic, although all off-screen. It wouldn't surprise me if we see a showdown and then Rey limping in afterwards saying something like "Annie, I have done something terrible". Death, yes, but of someone that we already knew was dead (Jeanne)(the sentence doesn't sound right, sorry for bad english T_T), or someone we didn't know/happened to know (Daniel, Sivo). Not the heroine's father, and not from the hands (well, paws) of a friend. (Did I say I was an hopeless optimist ?) Edit : shoot, ninja'd, and with a good counter-example. -__-' Theres also Mort, we saw how he died, that will-o-wasp that tried to trick annie, the 'evil' glassed eyed man (though that one probably wasn't totally clear until later), theres also been a bunch of others, but they were either all offscreen or implied. |
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anisky
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Post by anisky on Jun 2, 2015 1:18:03 GMT
Death, yes, but of someone that we already knew was dead (Jeanne)(the sentence doesn't sound right, sorry for bad english T_T), or someone we didn't know/happened to know (Daniel, Sivo). Not the heroine's father, and not from the hands (well, paws) of a friend. (Did I say I was an hopeless optimist ?) I think there are more children's movies where one or both of the hero/heroine's parents dies/is dead than there are ones where the parents survive the whole movie. They often happen on-screen. Off the top of my head: A Land Before Time, The Lion King, Bambi, Frozen... and those are just ones where the parent(s) are alive at the beginning. Weirdly, if you think of it, most Disney heroes or heroines have lost one or both of their parents. It's hard to have adventures when you have attentive parents, after all. Usually if both parents are alive by the end, it's because they're either badass themselves, or neglectful. (So if Anthony wants to survive, maybe he should go back to the neglectful thing.) |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 2, 2015 3:17:24 GMT
Tony's death isn't off the table because this comic is for all ages... If Renard is left with only two options, attempt to possess Anthony or perish, would he choose to do it? t's gonna be down to Renard's survival instinct vs. his morals.Hey Anthony still has a whole other arm in mint condition and (assuming that he lost the other through experimenting on Antimony) it would make a beautiful parallel if he lost the remaining one experimenting on Renard! If this is what pupRenard looks like now, what will giantRenard look like? I'm guessing an arm would take one bite. [edit] You can't strap a stuffed animal down for vivisection like you can a frog or a monkey, Anthony... No bones. Renard is all sorts of bendy in addition to (surprise) not bound to your will after all. [/edit] |
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Post by arf on Jun 2, 2015 3:33:57 GMT
For all the love we bear the guy, do remember that Tony hasn't actually done anything murder-worthy.
Some are more traumatic than others, but there have been quite a few on-screen deaths (real, imaginary, or recall):
- glass eyed man (Of New and Old)
- Shadow Kat (Powerhouse)
- Diego (Skywatcher and Angel)
- Guard bot (Spring heeled)
- Jeanne's lover (Coward Heart)
- Jeanne (Coward Heart)
- old bot (Give and Take)
- Mr. Jones (Stone)
- Hetty (Quicksilver)
- Wisp (Crash Course)
- Mort (See Ya!)
- Jackalope (Totem)
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kralex
Junior Member
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Post by kralex on Jun 2, 2015 3:59:52 GMT
There also was the boy who played with fire and killed his whole family, including himself. I'm not sure he counts as dying "on-screen"; all we saw was him re-living his death (no pun intended) when Annie settled the question of which guide gets his soul.
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If Rey were to kill Anthony, the whole comic would fly apart. Annie would despise Rey for killing her father and Kat for giving that order; Rey and Kat would both hate themselves for that they'd done to Annie. I think the story would be dead at that point. I more expect a chance for Rey to prove his character development by putting him into a dilemma that would seem to require killing Anthony, but that lets him find a non-violent, or at least non-fatal, solution in the end.
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Post by Refugee on Jun 2, 2015 4:03:55 GMT
I can hardly think of any situations in which Reynardine would be forced to use lethal force in self-defense. "If he tries to hurt you, then you have my permission to do whatever it takes to defend yourself." Despite my well known position as an Anthony fan, who believes is Mr. Carver is just the very most bestest teacher and wonderfulest Daddy ever, I have no quarrel whatsoever with Kat's instruction here. She can hope for anything she wants, but her instruction is plain and explicit: "If he tries to hurt you, defend yourself." There is nothing about using lethal force, and many real-world self defense actions never get beyond the point of simply showing that you will defend yourself and are capable of doing so. Kat didn't even say, "If he tries to hurt Annie, defend her." Reynard has a conscience now, and I believe he truly loves Annie and trusts Kat. He will not do anything to violate their faith in him. |
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Post by setrain on Jun 2, 2015 8:28:34 GMT
... Kat should have added some words to the effect "minimum force necessary". As it is, that set of instructions authorizes Reynardine to kill Anthony "in self defense". As it is, Kat appears to be setting a death trap for Anthony. And if Anthony dies, Kat will be guilty of murder. Turning off a mind control effect that prevents somebody from freely choosing to kill somebody is not the same as killing them. She trusts him now. Trusting him means that she doesn't think he needs to be under magical compulsion in order to make the right choices. |
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quark
Full Member
Posts: 137
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Post by quark on Jun 2, 2015 9:45:28 GMT
I can hardly think of any situations in which Reynardine would be forced to use lethal force in self-defense. "If he tries to hurt you, then you have my permission to do whatever it takes to defend yourself." Despite my well known position as an Anthony fan, who believes is Mr. Carver is just the very most bestest teacher and wonderfulest Daddy ever, I have no quarrel whatsoever with Kat's instruction here. She can hope for anything she wants, but her instruction is plain and explicit: "If he tries to hurt you, defend yourself." There is nothing about using lethal force, and many real-world self defense actions never get beyond the point of simply showing that you will defend yourself and are capable of doing so. Kat didn't even say, "If he tries to hurt Annie, defend her." Reynard has a conscience now, and I believe he truly loves Annie and trusts Kat. He will not do anything to violate their faith in him. I... I agree with you. Very much so - Rey isn't a Mafia hitman, or a mindless weapon. He could be used as such, but Kat is doing the opposite here. She is giving him permission because she trusts him to do the right thing. She fears (and these fears are not unfounded) that Anthony might use other methods of 'breaking' Renard than using his (non-existent) etheric control, and that Renard might be forced to choose between his own physical integrity and Anthony's. Also, note her choice of words: She sais 'you have permission to do whatever it takes', not 'do whatever it takes'. She explicitly gives him a choice - Rey can still choose Anthony's safety over his own, if he wants to. |
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Post by artezzatrigger on Jun 2, 2015 10:31:58 GMT
I think Renard is going to get the opportunity to do whatever he wants to Anthony...and hes not going to take it.
Tom has said in the past that he would kill for the sake of others, and we've already seen him destroy Hetty. But for his own safety? I don't see it happening. He still feels guilty about killing that man he possessed. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there's already some self-loathing in him. I don't think he'd be willing to so much as touch Anthony, for fear that he might do something to upset Annie.
Tom has also said in the past that he always tries to put at least one plot development point into every page. Chances that Anthony is going to attempt something less than comfortable with Rey just skyrocketed.
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Post by Daedalus on Jun 2, 2015 14:05:14 GMT
This page is obviously setting up for a point where Rey has to balance his moral feelings, and paternal feelings for Annie, and his self-preservation. Let's hope he makes a good choice...
Also, seeing Rey so vulnerable in the first panel is breaking my heart - but in a good way, because Annie did rebel against Daddy Dearest's control.
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Post by nightwind on Jun 2, 2015 14:14:00 GMT
Eat his face, Rey!
Then puke on his carpet.
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kralex
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by kralex on Jun 2, 2015 19:58:02 GMT
Also, seeing Rey so vulnerable in the first panel is breaking my heart - but in a good way, because Annie did rebel against Daddy Dearest's control. Rey looks different now... cuddlier. More like a wolf puppy. Is this an effect of the change of ownership? If so, what does it signify? |
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Post by Eversist on Jun 2, 2015 20:20:30 GMT
I haven't been keeping up with the threads (sorry), but has anyone speculated that they may not be able to bip out of there because of something weird Anthony may have installed? Would add some (more) drama to the situation.
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Post by geoduck on Jun 2, 2015 21:50:57 GMT
I haven't been keeping up with the threads (sorry), but has anyone speculated that they may not be able to bip out of there because of something weird Anthony may have installed? Would add some (more) drama to the situation. There's that possibility, and the fact that the Court is able to track all the students' movements unless they take proactive measures to block it. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jun 2, 2015 22:35:59 GMT
I haven't been keeping up with the threads (sorry), but has anyone speculated that they may not be able to bip out of there because of something weird Anthony may have installed? Would add some (more) drama to the situation. Interestingly I speculated exactly on that topic, but with my GKC-reading Facebook friends instead of here, heh. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jun 3, 2015 0:51:16 GMT
Also, seeing Rey so vulnerable in the first panel is breaking my heart - but in a good way, because Annie did rebel against Daddy Dearest's control. Rey looks different now... cuddlier. More like a wolf puppy. Is this an effect of the change of ownership? If so, what does it signify? That Kat has the power to make everything adorable. |
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