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Post by Vilthuril on May 31, 2015 20:49:03 GMT
It's the chair. The chair is his charging port. What if Tony ...Is the chair?!?!Like this? In Slughorn's defense, I suppose getting zapped with a wand might even make Anthony change his facial expression; Zoop!  |
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Post by todd on Jun 1, 2015 0:13:42 GMT
Maybe the protagonist of the second 'act' is Kat? *tips tinfoil fedora*It reminds me of the shift from Frodo to Sam in the course of "The Lord of the Rings" - and with a similar reason (Frodo was becoming increasingly less suited to a p-o-v role). (The spooky part is that, in the early days of "Gunnerkrigg Court" - before Annie's first year ended in Chapter Fourteen - I drew a piece of fan art with Annie and Kat as Frodo and Sam, without even suspecting a similar shift would take place. At the time, I was thinking more of Annie being more serious and "etheric", like Frodo, and Kat more down-to-earth and practical.) |
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Post by Knight on Jun 1, 2015 2:20:32 GMT
I'd be on board with that. Kat rules.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jun 1, 2015 9:36:34 GMT
Ha! Called it! Well...most people called it but whatever If Tony is genuinely just here to fix Annie's shit, that would be very noble of him regardless of the terrible, terrible first impression he made on everyone. It was not very noble of him, regardless of his motives, to mock and (attempt to) destroy all of Annie's very-real and quite-noteworthy accomplishments. That's a bit perspectivist don't you think? I mean you're only saying that because we're seeing this story from Annie and Kat's point of view. "Oh no how devastating our Hero has been slain! Only a foul beast could do such a thing!" Except, y'know, for the fact that she actually has been cheating and actually was probably going to fail out of school if he hadn't intervened. And let's face it, no matter how he chose to do it, it would've been better than failing - yeah he chose a bad way, but it's still help no matter how you cut it. Everything else about Tony is just assumptions. We know nothing about what's going on in that guy's head. Maybe he is just a foul beast who only want's to make everyone miserable forever. Somehow I doubt it. Tony aside, Annie did this to herself Also, at no point in the comic have we ever seen him mock anybody. I don't know where you're getting that. I mean, the guy probably doesn't even have the emotional range to scoff, let alone mock. |
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Post by sherni on Jun 1, 2015 14:07:16 GMT
It's not likely she was going to be failed. Remember, she had already been sent up to year 10. The Court didn't bother to do anything about her cheating either. That was most definitely the wrong approach, but so is Anthony's. Whether he did it intentionally or not, he pretty much destroyed whatever self esteem she had managed to build, separated her from her friends and her security and dumped her in that big empty house all by herself. Maybe he doesn't mean to make her miserable, but he's still doing an excellent job of it.
To a small extent, she did. By cheating she gave her father a stronger grip on her. The rest of it was the Court and dear old Daddy.
No... I don't think he's capable of mockery either. You need a sense of humour for that, and one thing we can be certain of about Anthony is that he doesn't have one. What he can do is belittle and humiliate and hurt, as we've seen in the earlier chapter.
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Post by antiyonder on Jun 1, 2015 20:54:36 GMT
It was not very noble of him, regardless of his motives, to mock and (attempt to) destroy all of Annie's very-real and quite-noteworthy accomplishments. That's a bit perspectivist don't you think? I mean you're only saying that because we're seeing this story from Annie and Kat's point of view. "Oh no how devastating our Hero has been slain! Only a foul beast could do such a thing!" Except, y'know, for the fact that she actually has been cheating and actually was probably going to fail out of school if he hadn't intervened. And let's face it, no matter how he chose to do it, it would've been better than failing - yeah he chose a bad way, but it's still help no matter how you cut it. Everything else about Tony is just assumptions. We know nothing about what's going on in that guy's head. Maybe he is just a foul beast who only want's to make everyone miserable forever. Somehow I doubt it. Tony aside, Annie did this to herselfAlso, at no point in the comic have we ever seen him mock anybody. I don't know where you're getting that. I mean, the guy probably doesn't even have the emotional range to scoff, let alone mock. Well having her do make up assignments and even taking away privileges is legit in response to cheating. Making her feel like she is dumb and having her live by herself isn't. A child misbehaving doesn't mean that just any punishment goes. It has to be proportionate to the misdeeds. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jun 1, 2015 21:23:53 GMT
That's a bit perspectivist don't you think? I mean you're only saying that because we're seeing this story from Annie and Kat's point of view. "Oh no how devastating our Hero has been slain! Only a foul beast could do such a thing!" Except, y'know, for the fact that she actually has been cheating and actually was probably going to fail out of school if he hadn't intervened. And let's face it, no matter how he chose to do it, it would've been better than failing - yeah he chose a bad way, but it's still help no matter how you cut it. Everything else about Tony is just assumptions. We know nothing about what's going on in that guy's head. Maybe he is just a foul beast who only want's to make everyone miserable forever. Somehow I doubt it. Tony aside, Annie did this to herselfAlso, at no point in the comic have we ever seen him mock anybody. I don't know where you're getting that. I mean, the guy probably doesn't even have the emotional range to scoff, let alone mock. Well having her do make up assignments and even taking away privileges is legit in response to cheating. Making her feel like she is dumb and having her live by herself isn't. A child misbehaving doesn't mean that just any punishment goes. It has to be proportionate to the misdeeds. thinks she is dumb. That's her reaction to this, it's probably what prompted her to start cheating in the first place. Should Tony be more aware of this and try to change her personal outlook? Absolutely. Does his inability to see this make it his fault? Absolutely not. It's not likely she was going to be failed. Remember, she had already been sent up to year 10. The Court didn't bother to do anything about her cheating either. I think that reads into his first comment on the subject a little too far, by suggesting that the Court knew from the start. For all we know at this point, the Court wasn't even aware of the cheating until Anthony figured it out himself. It sure sounded like he did all the legwork ( He compared Annie's tests to Kat's after all). It's entirely possible he presented his findings to the court, they were all "eh, we'll get around to it" and he took action. |
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Post by antiyonder on Jun 1, 2015 23:01:59 GMT
She thinks she is dumb. That's her reaction to this, it's probably what prompted her to start cheating in the first place. Depends. Did Anthony raise her to merely do her best legitamately, or could he have possibly raised her with the additional notion that she has to do perfectly? Think of those pressuring parents who flip out if their kids get a single B or C even if the bulk of their other subjects has them with As. For that matter, suppose Annie did work up the courage to ask Kat or any other student for tutoring so that she could get better grades fairly. Would Anthony be proud that she improved or possibly disapprove that she needed help from another person to improve even without the moral issues of her cheating? While I still strongly agree with legit punishments, understanding the mindset is a good way to prevent it from happening again. As corny as those PSA are, knowledge is power. And don't get me wrong. Some troubled kids in society are a result of parent sadly are a result of parents who lack the willingness to discipline their child, but just the same, discipline won't permanently solve all problems. Especially if the issue with say cheating is the child isn't the lack of willingness to learn, but misplaced feelings of shame. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jun 2, 2015 5:35:40 GMT
Would Anthony be proud that she improved or possibly disapprove that she needed help from another person to improve even without the moral issues of her cheating? See, here's what I'm talking about: how can any of us possibly answer that question? It's open to any sort of speculation you like, because we don't have enough information about him. I get disliking the guy, really I do. What I don't get is when people draw these crazy conclusions that he's abusive or mocking her or actively evil in some way. We see nothing of the sort in the comic itself - it all comes from assumptions drawn from speculation, which have been solidified into "fact" arbitrarily. Tony failing to understand Annie's problems and where they actually stem from, while a serious character flaw for a parent to have, are in no way whatsoever the kind of crimes people seem to be accusing him of in these forums. It's all because we're seeing this unfold through Kat's eyes, and Kat loathes him. |
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Post by antiyonder on Jun 2, 2015 7:24:53 GMT
I get disliking the guy, really I do. What I don't get is when people draw these crazy conclusions that he's abusive or mocking her or actively evil in some way. We see nothing of the sort in the comic itself - it all comes from assumptions drawn from speculation, which have been solidified into "fact" arbitrarily. Tony failing to understand Annie's problems and where they actually stem from, while a serious character flaw for a parent to have, are in no way whatsoever the kind of crimes people seem to be accusing him of in these forums. It's all because we're seeing this unfold through Kat's eyes, and Kat loathes him. 1. True, though Kat's not the only person to show disdain for the guy. 2. I don't actually believe he does insult or mock her. But for one to think that asking another person for help in improving one's self, I imagine he still said or somehow gave her the impression that needing help is a sign of failure. Otherwise, where would she get the impression that asking for say Kat for tutoring would make her look dumb? Regardless, does one's behavior have to be malicious and/or illegal in order to merit criticism?[/quote] |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jun 2, 2015 11:28:37 GMT
It's all because we're seeing this unfold through Kat's eyes, and Kat loathes him. Yesssss! We hatessss him!!  |
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Post by goldenknots on Jun 2, 2015 21:13:41 GMT
... What I don't get is when people draw these crazy conclusions that he's abusive or mocking her or actively evil in some way. We see nothing of the sort in the comic itself - it all comes from assumptions drawn from speculation, which have been solidified into "fact" arbitrarily. ... Maybe we're not reading the same webcomic? He has definitely abused her by mocking and humiliating her in front of her friends. Evil? ::shrug:: that remains to be seen. |
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Post by Refugee on Jun 2, 2015 21:44:47 GMT
... What I don't get is when people draw these crazy conclusions that he's abusive or mocking her or actively evil in some way. We see nothing of the sort in the comic itself - it all comes from assumptions drawn from speculation, which have been solidified into "fact" arbitrarily. ... Maybe we're not reading the same webcomic? He has definitely abused her by mocking and humiliating her in front of her friends. Your threshold for "abuse" is too low. I'm not going to have this conversation again in any detail, but zbeeblebrox has it exactly right. Someday I'm going to have put together a chart of what Mr. Carver has actually done versus what he is assumed to have done. There are not too many points of commonality. I am, for instance, reasonably confident that Annie cut her own hair and is wearing clothes of her own choosing, and that Mr. Carver did not direct her to do those things. She is punishing herself for having broken her own standards. It is a good thing that she is defying her Father over Renard; it indicates her spirit is not broken. For the most part, she's doing what she wants, saving only that she will not give Renard to a hostile power because she screwed up. She will not allow Renard to be punished for her sins. The level of integrity this demonstrates is amazing, and casting Annie as a mere victim deprives her of this great triumph. === Given how barren Mr. Carver's own quarters are, I'm thinking he may not see a problem with where he put Annie. He himself only has what he needs to do the things he thinks are important. |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Jun 3, 2015 4:26:00 GMT
The level of integrity this demonstrates is amazing, and casting Annie as a mere victim deprives her of this great triumph. Again, Carver can still be a terrible (not criminally so) father and Annie can still be doing this stuff on her own. It's not like being a victim of something makes you 100% FULL ON VICTIM AND NOTHING ELSE from then on. Good lord. Now if a character defines themselves as a victim and only so, yeah, that's no good. But hey, I assume Tony's a terrible dad and you assume that makes Annie a "mere victim". There's all kinds of silliness going on. |
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Post by Refugee on Jun 3, 2015 5:01:57 GMT
The level of integrity this demonstrates is amazing, and casting Annie as a mere victim deprives her of this great triumph. It's not like being a victim of something makes you 100% FULL ON VICTIM AND NOTHING ELSE from then on. Good lord. Now if a character defines themselves as a victim and only so, yeah, that's no good. But hey, I assume Tony's a terrible dad and you assume that makes Annie a "mere victim". There's all kinds of silliness going on. I'm pretty sure Carver's not a great dad, to say the very least. And even if he's a terrible dad, that's not what reduces Annie to a "mere victim". I'm talking about assignment to the victim role, for whatever reason and to whatever degree, by many here in the forum. They want a different story than I do, about a plucky school girl reduced to subservient cypher by her abusive father; whereas I want to see a story about a good but flawed human being coming to grips with her own weaknesses. If all you want to do is to note that Anthony is indeed a terrible father, OK, fine. Not my kind of tale, but OK. I only object to those who seem to want the story to be about how terrible a father Annie has, and the damage she has taken thereby. If you are not one of those, I have no quarrel with you. |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Jun 3, 2015 6:08:05 GMT
They want a different story than I do, about a plucky school girl reduced to subservient cypher by her abusive father; whereas I want to see a story about a good but flawed human being coming to grips with her own weaknesses. What I don't get is why these things have to be two completely different stories - unless it's a matter of degree? Annie's a very different character around her dad, for some reason that hasn't been shown in story. I don't count that as a weakness, but I do think it's something she'd need to come to terms with - not just her relationship with her dad, but with most of the adults in the court. Do I think she has weaknesses? Absolutely. Do I currently think a change of clothes/hair/living conditions/peers and working on homework (all we've seen so far) is how to work on these? Nope. Do I think they somehow formed in a vacuum? Nope. Do I think she should be working on them in a vacuum? Nope. It's not that she has to overcome the damage her dad did, but understand he's flawed and that maybe he doesn't know best. That's what I'm hoping for, at least (as well as a guttering, but still alive, hope that Anthony actually does love her and doesn't see her as a science project). |
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Post by Refugee on Jun 3, 2015 12:45:16 GMT
They want a different story than I do, about a plucky school girl reduced to subservient cypher by her abusive father; whereas I want to see a story about a good but flawed human being coming to grips with her own weaknesses. What I don't get is why these things have to be two completely different stories Beats the heck out of me. I'm not responding so much to what happened in-story as in-forum. Annie's Father did some stuff that made her unhappy. Therefor he is evil, did things not shown in the comic, and the story must now be about how awful child abuse is. Weird, I know. But there it is. |
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