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Post by Daedalus on May 29, 2015 14:30:00 GMT
I'd like to note that, at a certain point, it isn't entirely a bad thing if Kat had to persuade/manipulate Annie to give Rey up. Annie may have been compromised enough to give up Rey to her father, who certainly does have Plans, even if he has them memorized rather than written down (possibly to prevent snooping kids/plushies from seeing them). Putting Rey under the control of Daddy Dearest would have violated his rights as a sentient being, and if Kat didn't act at that moment, it would have been too late. Saving Rey had to take priority over her relationship with Annie, because the latter could be fixed later. If this happened, though, we can expect lots of pathos - but it was worth it.
Or it's possible that Annie chose to entrust Kat with Rey's ownership without any manipulation at all (which I view as likely). Which is the best of all worlds.
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Post by Eisenblume on May 29, 2015 14:48:34 GMT
I'm just afraid that Annie didn't know she was giving up Rey to Kat. Like, she handed him over and that was enough or somesuch...
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Post by nero on May 29, 2015 15:14:36 GMT
I'm gonna believe that Annie gave Renard willingly without being tricked by Kat.
I'm waiting for Smitty to take out the seat cushion and find several human skins of Anthony, showing that he's really an imposter.
Or maybe there's some device in the chair recording this.
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Post by Daedalus on May 29, 2015 15:30:40 GMT
I'm just afraid that Annie didn't know she was giving up Rey to Kat. Like, she handed him over and that was enough or somesuch... My interpretation, at least, is that transferring control requires a conscious exertion of will. Other people have held the plushie without Ret changing owners. But Tom has sworn to never again answer questions about Rey's contract, so we'll have to wait and see. |
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Post by stef1987 on May 29, 2015 16:20:38 GMT
still wondering about his puppy form though...
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on May 29, 2015 16:42:17 GMT
still wondering about his puppy form though... Tom likes dogs. It could be that simple. |
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Post by Chancellor on May 29, 2015 16:47:07 GMT
Watch out with that line of thinking, Kat. Just because he's a horrible person doesn't automatically mean he's singlehandedly conducting a conspiracy. "Single-handedly" Hyuk hyuk hyuk. |
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Post by hypixion on May 29, 2015 16:56:49 GMT
Go look in his fridge
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Anthony
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No, not THAT guy.
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Post by Anthony on May 29, 2015 17:18:19 GMT
Looks like my tongue in cheek "Anthony is an evil robot" theory has new credence.  What we know about Anthony really gets stranger and stranger. I personally think this Anthony is not a real man, but some kind of etheric entity. |
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quark
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Post by quark on May 29, 2015 17:53:10 GMT
yeah. Good: a few beers and food enough for two, a few recipes and a few sticky notes with motivational phrases cited from the book 'how to reconnect with your estranged child' or 'apologising for dummies'. Expected: Food for two, a few recipes and a meal plan of what Annie's supposed to cook for the next week plus a timetable when the food is expected. Bad: Food for one plus a few experiments. very bad: Experiments on Zimmy-Hair. Food may or may not fit the definition of food. Very, very bad: let us not talk about thiiiis |
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Post by machival on May 29, 2015 18:09:00 GMT
Looks like my tongue in cheek "Anthony is an evil robot" theory has new credence. What we know about Anthony really gets stranger and stranger. I personally think this Anthony is not a real man, but some kind of etheric entity. Perhaps Anthony is a mere shadow of a man, one with a silhouette so perfect that none can distinguish him from the real thing. |
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Post by Chancellor on May 29, 2015 18:13:25 GMT
yeah. Good: a few beers and food enough for two, a few recipes and a few sticky notes with motivational phrases cited from the book 'how to reconnect with your estranged child' or 'apologising for dummies'. Expected: Food for two, a few recipes and a meal plan of what Annie's supposed to cook for the next week plus a timetable when the food is expected. Bad: Food for one plus a few experiments. very bad: Experiments on Zimmy-Hair. Food may or may not fit the definition of food. Very, very bad: let us not talk about thiiiis *years later* "We've seen stranger. Remember Anthony's fridge?" "Yeah, but that was...Actually, I don't know WHAT that was." |
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Post by geoduck on May 29, 2015 18:41:35 GMT
Yeah, at this point, Anthony is either one horribly broken individual, or this isn't him at all.
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Post by ryrmyrbyr on May 29, 2015 20:06:49 GMT
Mr. Carver is a sad man. I'm not convinced he's a villain, but it would be better if someone else was Annie's guardian.
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Post by sherni on May 29, 2015 21:48:10 GMT
Could be a few things. For one, it seems to be some policy of the court that students live by themselves, since Kat doesn't live at home either. Judging by Renards comments, it also seems he enjoys solitude. If he is even capable of enjoying anything. I'm kind of starting to feel sorry for him for how subdued he is. But I guess we'll know for sure after dinner with the Donlans. Yes, Kat doesn't live with her parents, but she doesn't live by herself either. The students live in dormitories. Maybe he'll show some sign of emotion if he's around Donald. Looks like my tongue in cheek "Anthony is an evil robot" theory has new credence. It's the chair. The chair is his charging port. |
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Post by deuswyvern on May 29, 2015 21:58:49 GMT
Yeah, at this point, Anthony is either one horribly broken individual, or this isn't him at all. My view is that Anthony represents what Annie could have become if she had never overcome her social awkwardness. From what we have seen he was naver able connect with anyone other than Donnie and Surma, and now Surma's dead. Somehow I think that he is not as close to Donny as Donny thinks and/or would like. He has basically grown up to be a lonely bitter adult who does not really know how to relate to others. I would feel sorry for him, if he was not hurting Annie so much. |
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Shire
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Post by Shire on May 30, 2015 1:37:40 GMT
It's the chair. The chair is his charging port. What if Tony...
...Is the chair?!?! |
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quark
Full Member
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Post by quark on May 30, 2015 3:55:38 GMT
Yeah, at this point, Anthony is either one horribly broken individual, or this isn't him at all. My view is that Anthony represents what Annie could have become if she had never overcome her social awkwardness. From what we have seen he was naver able connect with anyone other than Donnie and Surma, and now Surma's dead. Somehow I think that he is not as close to Donny as Donny thinks and/or would like. He has basically grown up to be a lonely bitter adult who does not really know how to relate to others. I would feel sorry for him, if he was not hurting Annie so much. I don't know. Social awkwardness doesn't automatically lead to cruel behaviour. Socially awkward people may or may not hurt others without intending to, but all Anthony did up until now was calculated. Some have mentioned that the order of his accusations and demands has been important - if he had demanded Renard at the beginning, Antimony might have been able to fight back openly. This requires concious manipulation - not a trait of the socially awkward. Annie.. yeah, Annie's no saint. She can be cruel, and when she's angry, she will use all she has (see her fights with Renard or Jack). Jack especially shows that she does have a capacity for long-term manipulation and cruelty. But what she did show, and her father never did, was compassion. She'll show compassion and kindness to very alien or hostile beings (see Shadow2, Robot, Renard, Ysengrin...). |
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Post by The Anarch on May 30, 2015 5:23:11 GMT
I'm getting a very Class of 1999 vibe from Tony.
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Post by aline on May 30, 2015 7:36:57 GMT
I think calling Anthony a fool is a reckless thing to do, dear Renard.
Whatever he is doing he is probably hiding from the court as well, so he won't keep it on his desk. I mean, the guy kept his location a secret from his best friend and communicated with him through coded messages. Kat is going to need more imagination than that if she wants to find anything out.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on May 30, 2015 8:06:10 GMT
Ha! Called it! Well...most people called it but whatever
If Tony is genuinely just here to fix Annie's shit, that would be very noble of him regardless of the terrible, terrible first impression he made on everyone. Buuuuuut...much like Kat, I'm still not convinced. There must be some kind of ulterior motive. Even if it also has to do with Annie, I just don't buy he's only there to keep her from failing out of school.
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Post by deuswyvern on May 30, 2015 13:10:15 GMT
My view is that Anthony represents what Annie could have become if she had never overcome her social awkwardness. From what we have seen he was never able connect with anyone other than Donnie and Surma, and now Surma's dead. Somehow I think that he is not as close to Donny as Donny thinks and/or would like. He has basically grown up to be a lonely bitter adult who does not really know how to relate to others. I would feel sorry for him, if he was not hurting Annie so much. I don't know. Social awkwardness doesn't automatically lead to cruel behaviour. Socially awkward people may or may not hurt others without intending to, but all Anthony did up until now was calculated. Some have mentioned that the order of his accusations and demands has been important - if he had demanded Renard at the beginning, Antimony might have been able to fight back openly. This requires concious manipulation - not a trait of the socially awkward. Annie.. yeah, Annie's no saint. She can be cruel, and when she's angry, she will use all she has (see her fights with Renard or Jack). Jack especially shows that she does have a capacity for long-term manipulation and cruelty. But what she did show, and her father never did, was compassion. She'll show compassion and kindness to very alien or hostile beings (see Shadow2, Robot, Renard, Ysengrin...). I was trying speculate on Anthony's role within the narrative rather than argue that social awkwardness inevitably leads to cruelty. Anthony clearly was socially awkward in the past, and how he dealt with his problems relating to people has a lot to do with his current unpleasantness. I think that unlike Annie, who often feels inferior to people, Anthony came to feel that his isolation was the fault of others. I think he currently feels a lot of bitterness towards other people, and that influences the way he deals with him. He probably did manipulate Annie, but he chose a cold and detached way to do it, which was not the only way to accomplish his objectives. I think that in his current state he has difficulty seeing people as anything other than tools to be manipulated to his purposes. Despite what I've just said, I think it is a bit to early to say that he has never shown compassion. Right now we have very little information on him, and most of it comes from biased sources. There has to be another side of Anthony that we have not seen, otherwise it is hard to see why Surma would have married him. |
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Post by warrl on May 30, 2015 19:33:13 GMT
Ha! Called it! Well...most people called it but whatever If Tony is genuinely just here to fix Annie's shit, that would be very noble of him regardless of the terrible, terrible first impression he made on everyone. It was not very noble of him, regardless of his motives, to mock and (attempt to) destroy all of Annie's very-real and quite-noteworthy accomplishments. |
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Post by antiyonder on May 30, 2015 23:16:15 GMT
I think that unlike Annie, who often feels inferior to people, Anthony came to feel that his isolation was the fault of others. I think he currently feels a lot of bitterness towards other people, and that influences the way he deals with him. He probably did manipulate Annie, but he chose a cold and detached way to do it, which was not the only way to accomplish his objectives. I think that in his current state he has difficulty seeing people as anything other than tools to be manipulated to his purposes. Despite what I've just said, I think it is a bit to early to say that he has never shown compassion. Right now we have very little information on him, and most of it comes from biased sources. There has to be another side of Anthony that we have not seen, otherwise it is hard to see why Surma would have married him. Yeah and I see that kind of thinking leading him to believe (and possibly teaching Annie) that needing someone's help is a sign of stupidity and inadequacy. Ha! Called it! Well...most people called it but whatever If Tony is genuinely just here to fix Annie's shit, that would be very noble of him regardless of the terrible, terrible first impression he made on everyone. It was not very noble of him, regardless of his motives, to mock and (attempt to) destroy all of Annie's very-real and quite-noteworthy accomplishments. This. In someways being good at parenting is like being a good critic. And to be such means recognizing the good aspects and considering if the good ultimately outshines the bad. And looking at a post made before by Jelly Jellybean: He will comment negatively on the one error in Annie's school work and not say a thing about the rest of the homework that is perfect. And then he will declare the visitation over because Annie has to redo her school work. Which is still speculation, but if Anthony approves of a particular piece of homework on the basis that Annie got more right than wrong, fair enough. But if he gets bent out of shape because she merely got say 30 percent out of 100 wrong, then he definitely is in the wrong himself. |
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Post by todd on May 31, 2015 1:24:33 GMT
And Tom provides another big shake-up to the story - along all the other major changes to Annie, her ownership of Rey (in force from the end of Chapter Three) has shifted to Kat. And something tells me that we're not likely to see that reversed.
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Post by Daedalus on May 31, 2015 4:32:43 GMT
And Tom provides another big shake-up to the story - along all the other major changes to Annie, her ownership of Rey (in force from the end of Chapter Three) has shifted to Kat. And something tells me that we're not likely to see that reversed. He said, relatively recently, that we'd roughly reached the halfway point. In Chapter 49, Kat had her first major role as the main actor of the central plotline, and now Annie's been rendered non-protagonist material, hopefully only for a little while. Maybe the protagonist of the second 'act' is Kat? *tips tinfoil fedora* |
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Post by youwiththeface on May 31, 2015 5:03:40 GMT
And Tom provides another big shake-up to the story - along all the other major changes to Annie, her ownership of Rey (in force from the end of Chapter Three) has shifted to Kat. And something tells me that we're not likely to see that reversed. He said, relatively recently, that we'd roughly reached the halfway point. In Chapter 49, Kat had her first major role as the main actor of the central plotline, and now Annie's been rendered non-protagonist material, hopefully only for a little while. Maybe the protagonist of the second 'act' is Kat? *tips tinfoil fedora*If I were to guess...while the story has given a lot of time to both girls, Annie has gotten more of it. I think in the upcoming chapters the balance will shift more to Kat to move things more towards an even balance between them. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on May 31, 2015 19:21:27 GMT
I think that unlike Annie, who often feels inferior to people, Anthony came to feel that his isolation was the fault of others. I think he currently feels a lot of bitterness towards other people, and that influences the way he deals with him. He probably did manipulate Annie, but he chose a cold and detached way to do it, which was not the only way to accomplish his objectives. I think that in his current state he has difficulty seeing people as anything other than tools to be manipulated to his purposes. Despite what I've just said, I think it is a bit to early to say that he has never shown compassion. Right now we have very little information on him, and most of it comes from biased sources. There has to be another side of Anthony that we have not seen, otherwise it is hard to see why Surma would have married him. Yeah and I see that kind of thinking leading him to believe (and possibly teaching Annie) that needing someone's help is a sign of stupidity and inadequacy. It was not very noble of him, regardless of his motives, to mock and (attempt to) destroy all of Annie's very-real and quite-noteworthy accomplishments. This. In someways being good at parenting is like being a good critic. And to be such means recognizing the good aspects and considering if the good ultimately outshines the bad. And looking at a post made before by Jelly Jellybean: He will comment negatively on the one error in Annie's school work and not say a thing about the rest of the homework that is perfect. And then he will declare the visitation over because Annie has to redo her school work. Which is still speculation, but if Anthony approves of a particular piece of homework on the basis that Annie got more right than wrong, fair enough. But if he gets bent out of shape because she merely got say 30 percent out of 100 wrong, then he definitely is in the wrong himself. To be fair to Anthony, he didn't say anything about Annie's homework at all. He actually gave Annie his approval when Annie said Kat didn't help with the homework. Annie was so happy when Anthony said " Good" to her that it is heartbreaking. Anthony could manipulate Annie far more effectively with compliments, but he doesn't. It now looks like he is so emotionally detached that he isn't capable of either being kind or being willfully cruel. |
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Post by aline on May 31, 2015 19:46:51 GMT
If Tony is genuinely just here to fix Annie's shit, that would be very noble of him regardless of the terrible, terrible first impression he made on everyone. Buuuuuut...much like Kat, I'm still not convinced. There must be some kind of ulterior motive. Even if it also has to do with Annie, I just don't buy he's only there to keep her from failing out of school. Of course he isn't. If Annie's homework really is the only thing Tony has to worry about, we have to ask ourselves: Where the hell did he disappear without leaving any address? Why would he order scalpel deliveries by satellite? How did he loose his hand? Even without considering all the weird stuff since he came back, there are a lot of things that aren't explained by schoolwork concerns.
No, there's more. He's just clever enough to not keep all the notes on his desk.
Yeah, that's how I see it too. I think Annie is unable to have a frontal confrontation with her father, but she can manage to keep secrets from him in order to protect her friends. Which is really good news, because this Annie who would just hand over Rey looked like a complete stranger to me. |
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Post by Vilthuril on May 31, 2015 20:41:26 GMT
yeah. .... Very, very bad: let us not talk about thiiiis *years later* "We've seen stranger. Remember Anthony's fridge?" "Yeah, but that was...Actually, I don't know WHAT that was." Indeed, we must never forget The Noodle Incident. (Oh my, the picture on this page! Holy Recursion, Batman!) |
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