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Post by Jelly Jellybean on May 27, 2015 16:43:23 GMT
... A third possibility? Maybe she straight up stole him, and that was enough to change ownership; after all, we've never really seen how that mechanic would work. ... The theft theory seems the most plausible to me given what we currently know. Kat stole Rey and took ownership without Annie's cooperation. Then Kat told Annie that she was retaining ownership but handing Reynard back to Annie so Annie could hand him over to Anthony. If/when Anthony asks Annie if she gave control over Rey to someone else, Annie can truthfully say no. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on May 27, 2015 16:57:18 GMT
...Kat couldn't steal Rey, as that would set him free.. ALSO, ALSO -- Rey's current form. Annie is the sort of girl who'd own a stuffed wolf. Kat is the sort who would own a stuffed puppy. Whether theft frees Rey or transfers ownership either makes or breaks the theft theory. I believe there is enough ambiguity at the moment to argue either side. I think Rey might look more like Hellboy or Batman if Kat was influencing his form. |
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Sadie
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Post by Sadie on May 27, 2015 17:27:43 GMT
...Kat couldn't steal Rey, as that would set him free.. ALSO, ALSO -- Rey's current form. Annie is the sort of girl who'd own a stuffed wolf. Kat is the sort who would own a stuffed puppy. Whether theft frees Rey or transfers ownership either makes or breaks the theft theory. I believe there is enough ambiguity at the moment to argue either side. I know there are some people who find the following exchange in "Questions and Answers" vague -- ANNIE: You aren't going to take him away from me? EGLAMORE: If we did that, the contract of ownership you have over him would be void. There's no telling what he would do. -- with regard to theft, it's very clear-cut to me and I don't, personally, understand where the doubts come from. If Rey were taken from Annie/the doll's established owner, the contract would be void. "Taken" constitutes 'removed without consent of the owner', which covers theft. A void contract is exactly that; whatever the contract once covers is no longer true. The doll would no longer belong to Annie or anyone, and Rey would be free to do as he pleases. Moreover, if the Court could have stolen Rey to assume ownership of him, they absolutely would have. Years ago, they would have. If they could have had Rey completely under their control without needing Annie's permission, there is no single, solitary benefit - and a lot of established downsides - to not taking advantage of that fact. Rey would make a very fetching David Duchovny. |
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Post by geoduck on May 27, 2015 17:33:45 GMT
Moreover, if the Court could have stolen Rey to assume ownership of him, they absolutely would have. Years ago, they would have. If they could have had Rey completely under their control without needing Annie's permission, there is no single, solitary benefit - and a lot of established downsides - to not taking advantage of that fact. That assumes the Court knows that stealing him is all it takes. They've given no impression of being omniscient. |
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Sadie
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Post by Sadie on May 27, 2015 17:37:36 GMT
Moreover, if the Court could have stolen Rey to assume ownership of him, they absolutely would have. Years ago, they would have. If they could have had Rey completely under their control without needing Annie's permission, there is no single, solitary benefit - and a lot of established downsides - to not taking advantage of that fact. That assumes the Court knows that stealing him is all it takes. They've given no impression of being omniscient. Taking and stealing are the same thing. This is why I'm confused over the distinction that you (and others) seem to be trying to make. The Court knows full well that taking Rey won't work. Eglamore says EXACTLY THAT. Stealing is the same as taking. There's no tangible difference. If I take your hat without permission and with no intent of ever giving it back I have just STOLEN YOUR HAT and I am a terrible person. The key words of my final point are "with/without permission". If someone takes Rey/the doll with Annie's permission, then she has given Rey to them. If someone takes Rey/the doll without Annie's permission, then they have stolen Rey from her. I'll keep reading arguments to the contrary, but honestly, the ambiguity I'm seeing in this issue sounds more like a matter of semantics than anything else. |
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Post by sherni on May 27, 2015 18:33:07 GMT
Annie's underwhelmed and unconvincing " o-oh?" of 'surprise' in response to Anthony remarking on Renard's lack of obedience, followed by her stuttered "I - I don't know why he isn't listening..." sells me on her being fully aware of who actually owns Rey now. She was able to clearly and unhesitatingly say that she gave Renard to her father (because she did give him Rey, she just didn't have the authority to anymore), but she stumbles over the claim that she doesn't know why he wouldn't listen. It's probably the biggest lie she can manage against her father, right now. Dollars to donuts it was one of Kat's "we'll deal with it" plans. Kat couldn't steal Rey, as that would set him free (something he, personally, doesn't actually want), and while I find it completely likely that the girls had set up a back-up plan - an equivalent to the situation of Hetty being passed down through a diary entry - of Rey's ownership defaulting to Kat if something happened to Annie, I don't think this situation counts. To me, the reasoning would be all too convoluted and based on technicalities. Also Kat being completely un-surprised to see Renard with the same Mark of the Creator the robots granted her tells me that she knew he was under her authority. Which additionally implies that it was something that her and Annie arranged off-screen. ALSO, ALSO -- Rey's current form. Annie is the sort of girl who'd own a stuffed wolf. Kat is the sort who would own a stuffed puppy. 100% with Sadie here. I really, really hope that Annie handed Reynardine's "ownership" over to Kat! She really does look quite shifty here, not quite meeting Anthony's eyes and even stuttering. Kat is smart, in fact, she a genius! She wouldn't let her friend pass into the control of someone she dislikes so easily. This is how the mess was dealt with. And Kat doesn't seem in the least surprised that Reynardine is answering to her or wearing her symbol on his forehead. (I assuming it is her symbol, as we don't know for certain if anyone else bears the Mark of the Creator at this time.) It might also explain Annie's lack of concern for Reynardine and being more worried about Kat breaking into Anthony's house in the last few pages. She knows Renard is fine. And I'm really thankful that Reynardine doesn't seem to bear any resentment towards Annie. In fact, the first thing he does is show concern. Also, puppy Renard!! I want to cuddle him!! And hug him and hold him and call him George... |
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Post by Kitty Hamilton on May 27, 2015 18:43:41 GMT
Such a relief to see that Rey is under Kat's authority. And also looks like a cute puppy.
That chair is looking suspiciously significant though.
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Post by matoyak on May 27, 2015 18:49:41 GMT
I don't think it's a guarantee that Annie intentionally gave Rey to Kat. I hope she did, I hope that's one of the meanings to "Sneak", but... I don't think we can call the ownership question resolved, and if it IS resolved, I don't think it guarantees that Annie did the right thing by giving him to Kat rather than her father. Unless it was via an order prior to all this going down in case of Annie ever being incapable of making rational decisions (or her going into a coma or something), as someone suggested earlier. Which is the second question I asked, which I still consider unresolved. I had meant our basic questions of who owned him in the first place, which is clearly Kat. While I think it's very likely Kat who owns Rey at the moment, I can't agree that it's definitely resolved. In part because of: I'd consider it a real cheat if it's revealed that somehow Kat and Anthony have the same symbol. How? It's Kat's symbol in the treatises but inside the main comic it was only called "the mark of the creator [of the robots]" which I always assumed to be either Diego's symbol or a modified version of it. It wasn't really "Kat's symbol" to begin with. I think Surma and Annie share a symbol too don't they, and that symbol was on the fire creature in Coyote's explanation of Annie's heritage? Surma vs Anthony and Annie vs Kat as Nature/Forest vs Science/Court has been a theme from the start, and we've had Surma = Annie so it seems logical (though unexpected, personally) for Anthony = Kat to be a thing too (Though it should be noted that there was no symbol on the Fire Elemental in Coyote's explanation). We don't currently have any guarantee that the Mark of the Creator is necessarily only applicable to Kat, iirc, especially as it was very likely Diego's mark to begin with. Apparently Rey hid the symbol from Tony? Or would Tony not understand the meaning of a symbol appearing on Rey's forehead? And then there's this. Anthony should know what a symbol on Rey's head means, or know to ask Annie. I do not think Annie could lie to him about what it means. So that means Rey either hid it, or Anthony wasn't surprised to see that particular symbol. Or at least that he can rationalize himself into thinking it applies to him. |
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Post by sherni on May 27, 2015 18:52:59 GMT
Such a relief to see that Rey is under Kat's authority. And also looks like a cute puppy. That chair is looking suspiciously significant though. Maybe... But they appeared quite close to it, close enough to be able to see anyone sitting there. So maybe not significant right now? |
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Post by deuswyvern on May 27, 2015 18:59:55 GMT
Rey's symbol change is interesting.
I can't say that I like the idea of Kat tricking Annie into giving her ownership of Rey. It would imply that Kat had completely written Annie off since she would not have tried to gain her assistance. However if it was a plan they came up with together that's fine with me.
Another possibility is that intent matters more than words, and while Annie succeeded in ceding her own ownership of Rey, the ownership transferred to the person she wanted to have it rather than who she officially gave it to.
Personally, I might be most interested in the theory that Anthony has the same symbol as Kat. I like the idea of them having more in common than Kat may want.
I think the chair is a red herring. Its too suspicious.
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Post by warrl on May 27, 2015 19:39:08 GMT
I don't think that Annie knowingly gave Rey to Kat, or that Kat tricked Annie into doing so.
It may be that the three of them made contingency arrangements a while back, and Kat and Rey realized those arrangements are (or can be interpreted as) more broadly applicable than originally thought. Something on the order of "If I am incapacitated or lose control of my own will..." and now Rey and Kat say "Annie's will is totally subjugated to her father's, she has no control of it."
And Annie may SUSPECT that this is what's happening, but doesn't KNOW.
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Post by matoyak on May 27, 2015 19:42:30 GMT
I don't think that Annie knowingly gave Rey to Kat, or that Kat tricked Annie into doing so. It may be that the three of them made contingency arrangements a while back, and Kat and Rey realized those arrangements are (or can be interpreted as) more broadly applicable than originally thought. Something on the order of "If I am incapacitated or lose control of my own will..." and now Rey and Kat say "Annie's will is totally subjugated to her father's, she has no control of it." And Annie may SUSPECT that this is what's happening, but doesn't KNOW. This is my currently favored theory. |
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Kuraimizu
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Post by Kuraimizu on May 27, 2015 20:01:35 GMT
Reynardine wearing Kat's Mark of the Creator
Clearly Kat is his New caretaker
But did Annie transfer Renard to Kat,
or when Annie relinquished authority
did Renard get to choose his next Caretaker?
Renard isn't a slave under Annie's ownership
Annie merely owns the Wolf Doll made by her mother,
inside which Renard is inhabiting
Renard is for better terms Annie's Tenant.
when Annie relinquished Ownership of the Doll,
Renard gained the choice to choose his next Caretaker.
when Kat was the Only one to voice concern for Renard's feelings
Renard choose Kat to replace Annie's authority over him.
as such Renard is now Kat's Tenant,
and Ownership of the Doll falls to Kat.
Going to guess that Renard is taking the Form of a Wolf pup
because he currently feels vulnerable during his imprisonment
and is frightened by Anthony's intentions spoken or unspoken.
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Post by deuswyvern on May 27, 2015 20:02:38 GMT
I don't think that Annie knowingly gave Rey to Kat, or that Kat tricked Annie into doing so. It may be that the three of them made contingency arrangements a while back, and Kat and Rey realized those arrangements are (or can be interpreted as) more broadly applicable than originally thought. Something on the order of "If I am incapacitated or lose control of my own will..." and now Rey and Kat say "Annie's will is totally subjugated to her father's, she has no control of it." And Annie may SUSPECT that this is what's happening, but doesn't KNOW. It's not tricking her, but its still acting behind Annie's back. I don't like the idea that Kat would just assume Annie to be so completely under her Father's thumb that she could not trust her with their plans. |
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Post by keef on May 27, 2015 20:12:19 GMT
That assumes the Court knows that stealing him is all it takes. They've given no impression of being omniscient. Taking and stealing are the same thing. This is why I'm confused over the distinction that you (and others) seem to be trying to make. The Court knows full well that taking Rey won't work. Eglamore says EXACTLY THAT. Stealing is the same as taking. There's no tangible difference. If I take your hat without permission and with no intent of ever giving it back I have just STOLEN YOUR HAT and I am a terrible person. The key words of my final point are "with/without permission". If someone takes Rey/the doll with Annie's permission, then she has given Rey to them. If someone takes Rey/the doll without Annie's permission, then they have stolen Rey from her. I'll keep reading arguments to the contrary, but honestly, the ambiguity I'm seeing in this issue sounds more like a matter of semantics than anything else. You are right. Completely and utterly right. And now give me back my hat. |
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emmau
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Post by emmau on May 27, 2015 20:51:49 GMT
Reynardine wearing Kat's Mark of the Creator Clearly Kat is his New caretaker But did Annie transfer Renard to Kat, or when Annie relinquished authority did Renard get to choose his next Caretaker? Renard isn't a slave under Annie's ownership Annie merely owns the Wolf Doll made by her mother, inside which Renard is inhabiting Renard is for better terms Annie's Tenant. when Annie relinquished Ownership of the Doll, Renard gained the choice to choose his next Caretaker. when Kat was the Only one to voice concern for Renard's feelings Renard choose Kat to replace Annie's authority over him. as such Renard is now Kat's Tenant, and Ownership of the Doll falls to Kat. Going to guess that Renard is taking the Form of a Wolf pup because he currently feels vulnerable during his imprisonment and is frightened by Anthony's intentions spoken or unspoken.
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Shire
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Post by Shire on May 27, 2015 20:59:12 GMT
Oh, god, it's worse than I thought! Renard is a corgi! If I take your hat without permission and with no intent of ever giving it back I have just STOLEN YOUR HAT and I am a terrible person. Hey, don't be so hard on yourself. It's just a hat. |
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quark
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Post by quark on May 27, 2015 21:01:18 GMT
Annie's underwhelmed and unconvincing " o-oh?" of 'surprise' in response to Anthony remarking on Renard's lack of obedience, followed by her stuttered "I - I don't know why he isn't listening..." sells me on her being fully aware of who actually owns Rey now. She was able to clearly and unhesitatingly say that she gave Renard to her father (because she did give him Rey, she just didn't have the authority to anymore), but she stumbles over the claim that she doesn't know why he wouldn't listen. It's probably the biggest lie she can manage against her father, right now. The shifty eyes are her sign of shame - she looks away the same way when she talks about her cheating to Kat. I don't think she's lying here, especially considering her history with her father. Another reason: Why would she try and stop Parley, Smitty and Kat, then? Or, better - why would those three want to break in and see if Rey's all right? If Renard is free (or under Kats control), nobody needs to break into her father's house. Nobody has to see if he's okay, they can just wait a day or two and see if he makes contact. Kat could have hidden a Blinker stone or a walkie-talkie inside Renard, making the whole breaking and entering thing superfluous. I agree, but I don't think Annie had anything to do with it. She doesn't think it's a bad idea to give Renard to her father - remember when she told him and immediately cut of his protests? and then said he was making a fuss? She really doesn't see what kind of horrifying betrayal she is committing, because it's her father. He can't do wrong, can he? |
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Post by gunnerwf on May 27, 2015 21:45:36 GMT
Notice in the Treatise 6 page where Renard is standing? He is standing on Kat's side with her symbol above him.
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Kuraimizu
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Post by Kuraimizu on May 27, 2015 22:20:02 GMT
Honestly, I'm still pretty sure he's in puppy form because he's atop a desk and going full Wolf Mode would either break the desk or disrupt everything on it. This isn't the first time we've seen him in this puppy form, it's just a partial transformation.
actually this is the only time we have seen him in puppy form every other time it has been humanoid doll or adult wolf or the odd time we see his spirit as a fox. in humanoid form he acts more like an imp or a lesser demon as a wolf he acts like a protective parent or uncle as renard himself said "the mind is nothing but the plaything of the body" in his case the reverse is also true, as he can shape shift, his body is a plaything of his mind when he is being honest with himself and others, he usually wears the form of a Wolf when he is hiding his feelings or acting arrogant, he takes a humanoid shape when he wants to hide he reverts to a lifeless toy doll this time Renard has taken on the form of a Wolf Pup he Feels small and vulnerable. he is scared about what Anthony intends to use him for. He may even be hoping for Kat to pick him up, and tell him he is now safe among friends, But the first thing he asks is out of concern for Annie. The ones Renard cares for the most are Annie and Kat. |
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Sadie
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Post by Sadie on May 27, 2015 23:34:10 GMT
For the record, I'm not flat-out disagreeing with you, because you bring up good points that I also agree with and there's a good chance that you are the right one here and I, I am the one who is wrong --- buuut, I'm still leaning more toward my personal take, for reasons I detail below. The shifty eyes are her sign of shame - she looks away the same way when she talks about her cheating to Kat. I don't think she's lying here, especially considering her history with her father. On the other hand, her shameful shifty-eyes could specifically be because she's misleading him. Being able to perform one act of rebellion (giving Rey to Kat) does not equal to being ok with other acts of rebellion (breaking into Antony's house). If anything, it's more likely for the opposite to be true. Have you ever done something a little bit naughty and then tried to make up for it by being extra good and nice and helpful in other areas? Same deal. She wouldn't want them making things even 'worse' than they already are. For me, this would be true if the ONLY danger Rey is facing is being under Anthony's control. However, the scene in Spring Heeled where Jack trapped Rey proves that it's entirely possible for Renard to be physically hurt, harmed, or otherwise tormented regardless of who owns him. Anthony may not be able to get Renard to obey him, but he is still fully capable of hurting him. Additionally, simply leaving Renard in Anthony's possession until he's able to get himself to the nearest communication device leaves a lot up to chance. What if Tony locked him in a cage or a box? Again, this all leaves up to chance that Anthony wouldn't investigate Rey's body. Plus, a walkie-talkie is way too big to hide on a stuffed toy easily. This is really where I both agree and disagree with you. I do think that Annie views her father's actions toward her as completely justified and something that she brought on herself. He can do no wrong toward her. I also think Annie wants very much to trust and believe her father, and is in no mental state to question his actions too deeply. Does she, in fact, trust him implicitly and believe he's incapable of any wrong-doing? Ehhhh.... let's look back at this page in The Tree. Note the desperation in the close-up of her eyes. She knows what's coming, she's dreading it, she really hopes he won't go there, but he does and it knocks her for a complete mental loop. She's highly protective of Renard. She's stood up to every other adult at the Court that has tried to lay claim to him. This isn't a mild reaction or the reaction of someone who genuinely accepts that there's nothing wrong with handing the person she loves over to her father. She reacts like someone who's been forced between a rock and a hard place. Give up Rey, the person she loves and has sworn to protect from untrustworthy adults, or disobey her father, who she loves and is supposed to trust? She somehow wasn't accepting that Rey was completely safe with her father, but she also wasn't accepting that Rey wasn't completely safe with him. One big reason I lean toward her having willfully given Rey to Kat is because of what a perfect "out" it provides Annie. I firmly believe that if Anthony had brought up Renard first, Annie would've been able to mentally rally against the order. Bringing him up last, after Annie had been completely shamed and thrown off kilter, was calculating and deliberate. She already saw herself as powerless against him. As for making Rey quiet when he was putting up a 'fuss', I would say Annie was trying to prevent a Fire Spike style emotional mental down. |
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Post by matoyak on May 27, 2015 23:38:01 GMT
I don't think that Annie knowingly gave Rey to Kat, or that Kat tricked Annie into doing so. It may be that the three of them made contingency arrangements a while back, and Kat and Rey realized those arrangements are (or can be interpreted as) more broadly applicable than originally thought. Something on the order of "If I am incapacitated or lose control of my own will..." and now Rey and Kat say "Annie's will is totally subjugated to her father's, she has no control of it." And Annie may SUSPECT that this is what's happening, but doesn't KNOW. It's not tricking her, but its still acting behind Annie's back. I don't like the idea that Kat would just assume Annie to be so completely under her Father's thumb that she could not trust her with their plans. Considering what we've seen? Annie actually IS that far under Anthony's thumb. As quark said, Annie can't comprehend her father as being even potentially a little bit bad, and she can't understand what is horrible about what (seems to have been done by) giving Renard away after silencing him for complaining about his contract/ownership being given away like that. Were I Kat, I'm not certain I'd be able to trust Annie on topics concerning her father's demands either. |
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Post by todd on May 28, 2015 0:11:49 GMT
ANNIE: You aren't going to take him away from me? EGLAMORE: If we did that, the contract of ownership you have over him would be void. There's no telling what he would do. I still wonder about that one. The Court are the authority figures there; taking Reynardine from Annie could be considered legal confiscation rather than theft. Maybe the Court aren't sure, and don't want to put it to the test. |
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Post by TBeholder on May 28, 2015 0:12:59 GMT
Could it be that Tony has the same symbol, though? It's "known", i.e. generic symbol, so who knows. Anthony? "The matters he have to attend" could have been sneaking away to meet Seraphs. Why not? *tinfoil* This means that Kat is Annie's dad! No, he's one of those transgendred clones of Kat sent back in time to act as spies.  I think Rey might look more like Hellboy or Batman if Kat was influencing his form. Feathers. And a li'l beak. |
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Post by eightyfour on May 28, 2015 0:21:58 GMT
About the whole Rey-puppy-husky-whatever thing, it's my impression that he's just being shown mid-transformation. His concern for Annie has been burning a hole into his soul, so he's blurting it out the instant Kat asks him to speak, not even wasting half a moment to wait until he's fully wolfy.
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Post by deuswyvern on May 28, 2015 0:47:41 GMT
It's not tricking her, but its still acting behind Annie's back. I don't like the idea that Kat would just assume Annie to be so completely under her Father's thumb that she could not trust her with their plans. Considering what we've seen? Annie actually IS that far under Anthony's thumb. As quark said, Annie can't comprehend her father as being even potentially a little bit bad, and she can't understand what is horrible about what (seems to have been done by) giving Renard away after silencing him for complaining about his contract/ownership being given away like that. Were I Kat, I'm not certain I'd be able to trust Annie on topics concerning her father's demands either. It doesn't matter how far under his control she actually is. My problem is with the idea that Kat would cease trusting her friend so quickly after all they've been through, logical or not. But since I made my last post I realized that they let her know they were breaking into her father's house, I guess trust is not the issue. Now that I think about it, Kat might have kept it a secret so Annie could not be held accountable. If that is what happened. I also don't think we should assume that Annie believes her dad can do no wrong. She often conceals her true feelings. I think she knows he has problems, but is too afraid of ending their relationship to defy him. |
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emmau
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Post by emmau on May 28, 2015 1:30:55 GMT
actually this is the only time we have seen him in puppy form every other time it has been humanoid doll or adult wolf or the odd time we see his spirit as a fox. in humanoid form he acts more like an imp or a lesser demon as a wolf he acts like a protective parent or uncle as renard himself said "the mind is nothing but the plaything of the body" in his case the reverse is also true, as he can shape shift, his body is a plaything of his mind when he is being honest with himself and others, he usually wears the form of a Wolf when he is hiding his feelings or acting arrogant, he takes a humanoid shape when he wants to hide he reverts to a lifeless toy doll this time Renard has taken on the form of a Wolf Pup he Feels small and vulnerable. he is scared about what Anthony intends to use him for. He may even be hoping for Kat to pick him up, and tell him he is now safe among friends, But the first thing he asks is out of concern for Annie. The ones Renard cares for the most are Annie and Kat.
;P I wouldn't have said it wasn't the first time we've seen it if I wasn't absolutely sure. Like I said, it's a mid-transformation, we've also seen it here, albeit a bit less detailed. He's still the wise trickster wolf and demon Reynardine; if he's in the hands of Kat he has little to fear from Anthony. His current state of mind might be a small part of it, but I'm still feeling a lot like it's probably mainly a matter of practicality given where he's sitting at the moment. We'll see, though - if he remains in that form or assumes it in the future when he's not set on a desk, then we'll know I'm wrong. |
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Kuraimizu
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Post by Kuraimizu on May 28, 2015 1:47:44 GMT
;P I wouldn't have said it wasn't the first time we've seen it if I wasn't absolutely sure. Like I said, it's a mid-transformation, we've also seen it here, albeit a bit less detailed. He's still the wise trickster wolf and demon Reynardine; if he's in the hands of Kat he has little to fear from Anthony. His current state of mind might be a small part of it, but I'm still feeling a lot like it's probably mainly a matter of practicality given where he's sitting at the moment. We'll see, though - if he remains in that form or assumes it in the future when he's not set on a desk, then we'll know I'm wrong. you are wrong. that transformation was from humanoid to wolf his humanoid form is already larger than the original doll right now he is the same size as the doll and therefore would be classified as a wolf pup. you can clearly see the difference in detail between the previous panel while all his forms maintain the seams, you can clearly see that in the first panels he is cloth and suddenly he has fur, and facial details. he isn't mid-transformation, but fully transformed. While acting as Annie's guardian, Renard enjoyed freedom, currently he has been experiencing life as Anthony's prisoner. That imprisonment combined with whatever Anthony has been trying to force Renard into doing, and Annie's betrayal of giving Renard to her Father, is going to leave a mental scar, however temporary or permanent. |
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Post by Refugee on May 28, 2015 5:24:41 GMT
That assumes the Court knows that stealing him is all it takes. They've given no impression of being omniscient. Taking and stealing are the same thing. "Taking" covers much broader ground--but at this point I care little for the distinction because slavery is in another class altogether. |
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Post by The Anarch on May 28, 2015 7:18:30 GMT
He's more husky-like.  I think people are going with corgi because he's got stumpy legs  but I can also see the husky resemblance! |
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but I can also see the husky resemblance!