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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 10, 2015 16:40:59 GMT
This is really awful. Still a few months ago, I am sure the very first page would have had a post stating merely "Hallelujah", another one with a link to Cohen's song and on the next page at least there would have been a link to Buckley's (better) version of it, possibly someone even linking Wainwright, and whatever it brings in mind. Now, only three have apparently even noticed the whole reference when we have already over 4700 views and 160 replies and filling the 6th page rapidly, and with what: oh woe, oy vey, what a woeful day, and who with me dares to disagree, a vicious troll musteth he be. What else, substantially, has been said over these pages? And do not think that I claim to break the pattern with this post, oh no, oh woe... I wish I'd known that was standard practice, or I would have. It was a nice reference. I'd probably have linked Cohen. While I do think Buckley's version is better, Cohen's was practically a constant during my childhood (my parents had his records going all the time.). But, since you didn't mention her: Thank you. It is not a question of standards. It is question of friendly, humorous and quite sophisticated atmosphere that we have not had here since this chapter begun. I know people are taking this chapter hard emotionally, and I understand why, but could we just not calm down a little bit. Take a deep breath and look for a little bit of diversion in middle of it all. Accept that everybody is not going to agree and it shouldn't even be the goal. Reading through these threads pains me, personally, much more than the events of the actual comic. Maybe you touched something important with that comment on "standard practices". Often old habits - which trying to make not only the fastest page thread but the one with the best first lines, may be - play a big part of keeping a culture alive. I know some newcomers may have hard time believing this, but we had a culture here that was something quite peculiar, something quite different to the rest of the fudging internets. Thank you, Zimmyzims out. Thank you in particular for the video, a good performance that I was not aware of (not my favourite style of interpretation, but a good one). Exactly something I have grown a habit to enjoy on this forum. This forum is very one topic, so there are no (or very few) off-topic, non-comic related threads, so it has always been full of fun and intelligent referencing, not just culture, but, say, science ( e.g.), and I have learned quite a bit here in our communal theorising and debating about the comic, while also being amused. |
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Post by Eversist on Apr 10, 2015 16:44:17 GMT
Have people speculated on whether Annie's hair will still flow like crazy in the ether, or whether this part of her identity is removed. Might be more of a short flame. Her hair, it goes up. -- zimmyzims In my opinion, you are most certainly taking this too seriously; things are bound to be in turmoil (this happens in the forums every time something crazy happens in the comic). Hardly worth the hand-wringing. And I'm sure many people caught the reference; thanks to Shrek (among other things), it's not an obscure song. I prefer no acknowledgment than "Sick reference, bro" and "This reference, I got it" that seems obligatory on places like Reddit. |
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Post by sabriel on Apr 10, 2015 16:49:53 GMT
Let it straighten your backOne of the reactions I'm most interested in seeing is Coyote's. I have a feeling he's not actually going to do anything at all, but I'm wondering if I'm wrong. On the one hand, Tony thinking he can just take Coyote's medium away is INCREDIBLY disrespectful, but on the other hand, Coyote doesn't seem to be big on demanding respect. Then again, once Annie began to become notably flippant with him, he decided to teach her a lesson, and it seems like he's had conflicts in the past with others who disrespect his wishes that weren't Ysengrin... And he does so love mixing it up... What he does about this will reveal a lot about his personality.
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Post by pxc on Apr 10, 2015 16:51:30 GMT
Wow, 6 pages of discussion already. Have people speculated on whether Annie's hair will still flow like crazy in the ether, or whether this part of her identity is removed. I doubt she'll go into the ether anytime soon. Her father will probably forbid that, if he hasn't already. |
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Post by kelantar on Apr 10, 2015 17:24:22 GMT
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhahahahahahahahaaaa. OH man. ETA: Get it together Proboards. I'd posted before looking for this quote, figuring it'd take like 20 seconds but nooooooo. I'm actually still waiting to see if a Dramatic Haircut™ on Annie's part will occur in the story or not. Surma had short hair once, Annie might feel like "drastically" changing her own image at some point as well. There. Wow. Argh. Goddamnit! GODDAMNIT Edit: This page, man. I'm so with Kat - you can see her shaking with rage. She's crying out of anger and fear and concern. Man, Kat, I wish I didn't know exactly how you feel right now. Argh. He took away everything - did it need to include her hair, her make-up and her choice of clothes? Kat is us. We are Kat. *blubbers incoherently* Kat, you need to go get Coyote. NOW. Or at least Ysengrin. Or ANYONE from the forest. Although I'm not sure Anthony cares about the consequences of his actions, or even if he knows (does he know) she's the Forest Medium. Hell, go get even Zimmy, even though she's afraid of you, so to speak. Even Jones might be able to say or do SOMETHING. I vote Jones! If only because I want her to suplex him or something. Which would probably be fatal now that I actually think about it.... How could she just maim him? Don't be silly. Her original appearance included that ridiculous make-up. Unless the next page reveals she looks like that because Anthony has suddenly changed his mind and is determined to re-enact Annie's childhood and be a more loving, involved father and that he's being so sincere that Annie can't bear to rebuff his enthusiasm--one of those Anthony Carver is a bag of dicks bars is starting to look mighty attractive. Yeeeesssss, come to the dick side... (that sounds really bad in context, doesn't it?) It would be an absurdly big coincidence if after being shown to acquiesce to everything her father wanted she went out and just decided to get her hair cut like it was back when she lived at the hospital with her mom and dad for no related reason. It would be a coincidence if it just happened. But I've known too many girls, women even, to cut their hair in situations like this. We don't know, though. I'm waiting for Monday to find out what this all means. Granted she looks more than a little shell-shocked, though. She really does need that hug. But I think we can agree that it's Anthony's fault. I'm personally of the opinion that he said something along the lines of "Before we can begin packing... Antimony. Go to the barber and cut that ridiculous hair off your head." Or something like that. But even if he didn't, and she cut her own hair, the reason for that is almost certainly emotional distress, and the reason for her emotional distress is certainly from her da- father. My worst fears right now are: A) Annie will go full-on puppet and push Kat away, and/or B) Kat will try to get help from the Donlans...only to be ignored at first, because they haven't seen for their own eyes whats happened and will just think "oh thats just silly old awkward Anthony, same as ever", and tell her to stay out of Anthony's way for awhile. Luckily, I don't think B would happen that way. The Donlans appear very respectful of their daughter's autonomy and opinions, and I think if she showed up this distraught, they would at least look into it. This is what humans do to other humans when they want to change them but they don't have Coyote's memory eating power. That's... a shockingly good point. I actually would love thoughts on my post further back on this thread wondering if Anthony actually sees Antimony as a real person, with the right to the spirit that she took from Surma, or as a "thing" that reminds him of his failure and loss, and became a target instead of a daughter. I'm not saying it as clearly here as before. I don't think he's viewing her as one should view a daughter, but he's pretty inscrutable, so I can't really surmise how he actually feels about her. I do get the feeling that he is not concerned about whether or not she has feelings or her own hopes and dreams, and views her as someone to be molded the way he sees fit, although I'm not entirely sure why he feels it's necessary to mold her in that way. |
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Post by mathgirl277 on Apr 10, 2015 17:35:29 GMT
This poor little girl. She's so broken that she doesn't even look sad anymore. She just looks kind of empty. That hospital gown she's wearing looks nothing like the school uniform. Makes me wonder whether Anthony really intends to keep her at GKC, just in a lower year, or whether she'll be carted off to somewhere to take care of her rebelliousness or something. Not that she's in any state to rebel against anything right now. This poor child.  Honestly, Tony's got to have some sort of plan in mind. His previous characterization makes me think that he's not the type to do something without an end goal in mind. In this case, he has to have some reason to destroy and isolate his daughter to the extent that he has. He's a smart man with diabolical goals. I mean, I'm not trying to excuse his behavior, but his values must not see Annie as more than a pawn in a larger game of chess. A reverse-promotion of sorts, turning this powerful queen into a pawn in this game where he toys with her. |
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Post by ginbucketfish on Apr 10, 2015 17:39:13 GMT
I actually would love thoughts on my post further back on this thread wondering if Anthony actually sees Antimony as a real person, with the right to the spirit that she took from Surma, or as a "thing" that reminds him of his failure and loss, and became a target instead of a daughter. I'm not saying it as clearly here as before. It's not a huge stretch to see this, given the way he's been treating Antimony. Perhaps he sees her as a compromised version of Surma, and is mistreating the child version of her because the child version of her will be no more if he succeeds. Man, this chapter prompted me to start commenting in the first place. I will say, this is a GREAT story! There are themes here that I think a lot of people can relate to, or have even gone through similar situations. I can see that people are taking this chapter very personally, but lets not let our emotions cloud our vision. There are a lot of complex things going on here that could spark some great discussion, especially with regards to Mr. Carver. Seeing him as a one-dimensional A-hole is very easy right now as our dear Annie is suffering immensely, however, we all know that inserting a one-dimensional A-hole character would be very poor story telling. Here are my thoughts/questions on Anthony: There's a lot to unpack here. He's been a great mystery for most of the comic. Here's what we do know. (Please feel free to expand): 1. He somehow ended up with Surma. How? We don't know. It has not been explained, but Surma did " choose" him. 2. That whole thing with Brinnie. He puts up the mask, and doesn't deal with his problems. Granted he was much younger back then. But it is a glimpse into his social/emotional problem solving skills. Could it explain his current cold, seemingly emotionless demeanor now? Will we see a later glimpse of him being pained by the actions he felt he had to take? 3. He has been an absent father. Granted, we don't know how involved he was in Annie's life when they all lived at the hospital. He apparently taught Annie karate, I guess. Why has he been absent? My guess is that he is incredibly conflicted about Surma's death. We all know that Annie's birth was Surma's death sentence. Obviously Anthony played an important role in this situation. He could be blaming himself for A. Impregnating his wife, and subsequently B. Not being able to "cure" her. Though I don't think much as been explained about Fire Elemental biology, so I'm not entirely certain a cure is even possible. 4. He came back to GKC. Now this I find particularly interesting. Why did he come back? Did the court ask him to come back? Did he need a new job, and a Biology teaching position opened up? Does the Court have access to certain etheric technologies that will further his research? Has he come up with an experimental "cure" for fire elementalism and wants to test it out on Annie? He has not seen his daughter for years now. We can only speculate (and please do!) as to the why. However, if he truly does not care about Annie, in all likelihood he would have never returned. If his return has nothing to do with Annie (maybe its research related) then he would not have gone out of his way to punish her probably at all, and if he didn't care about her, he may not have acknowledged her. Who knows! 5. He got medieval on Annie. Now we get to the meat of the issue. Everyone is angry with Anthony on this front, and I can't say I'm not angry either. But let's dig in! For a moment put yourself in Anthony's shoes, he hasn't seen his daughter for years, when he left her at the Court she was very very similar to him in demeanor, very quiet, very stoic and she was very studious. Now she seems to be the opposite, ditching detention, and of course all of the cheating. Based on this information you might assume that she made some friends who were not a great influence on her (she was hanging out with the "demon" Renard). Taking her out of that environment and putting her back a year, and taking away her "fun" would seem an appropriate punishment. However, he doesn't know anything about his daughter AT ALL. Renard is basically her father figure at this point (he's getting taken away). Ys was another sort of mentor (no more of him). She'll be seeing less of her best friend Kat (who is possibly the BEST influence on her at this point). He couldn't have known all of this. Though, nor did he try to. I don't think the first interaction with your estranged daughter should be to take away all of her normalcy. I could write more, but I've gotta go! The most intriguing point for me is why Mr. Carver is back in the first place? |
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Post by Señor Goose on Apr 10, 2015 17:58:43 GMT
Sooooo, anybody seeing the end of the trainwreck? Anybody? You've forgotten yourself. The ride never ends. |
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Post by Señor Goose on Apr 10, 2015 18:02:42 GMT
Hell, go get even Zimmy, even though she's afraid of you, so to speak. Even Jones might be able to say or do SOMETHING. Heh. I want to watch Jones spread Anthony in a very thin layer across the court now. |
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Post by Refugee on Apr 10, 2015 18:15:34 GMT
It would be a coincidence if it just happened. But I've known too many girls, women even, to cut their hair in situations like this. ... Granted she looks more than a little shell-shocked, though. She really does need that hug. But I think we can agree that it's Anthony's fault. We can agree that Mr. Carver triggered it. I won't assign blame or fault or any such thing until I know who did what and why. I will say this, though: Antimony is at heart strong and good, but her plagiarism has exposed a potentially fatal weakness. As ugly as the consequences are--and they are ugly, including this emotional breakdown--they are as necessary as lancing and draining an abscess. It's been said, and rightly so, that Anthony leaves a lot to be desired as a father. I, too, wish he had re-affirmed his affection for Annie before disappearing. It's been said, and rightly so, that one of the reasons this is so devastating is because Annie has good reason to doubt her Father's unconditional love for her. In my own upbringing, Mom was the nurturing parent. Dad was away from the house often, and led a scholarly life that made him seem distant, more sympathetic to the people he helped than his own family. But "seem" is the crucial word. I never doubted the love of either of my parents, because they showed it in so often and so deeply, each in their own way. I wish Anthony could manage the same grace. But the fact is, Anthony is who he is. He, too, is a flawed human being. Annie loves him nevertheless. If her devastation is amplified by his previous coldness, she is so utterly vulnerable to it because she provoked it with behavior she knows is wrong. That does not excuse Anthony's faults. I do not say this to remove whatever blame is owed him. I only say that Annie, like all of us, is responsible for the consequences of her actions, as Anthony is for his own. I cannot hate Anthony without withdrawing my affection for Antimony as well. In the same way, I believe that despite her flaws, Annie is a good, strong person, who will overcome this as she has overcome so much else. She has made her seeming enemies, such as Coyote, Reynard, and even Ysengrin, into friends and allies. (Although I'm far from sure about Coyote.) She and Kat have hurt each other, and overcome it. She seeks not to destroy Jeanine, but to heal her. She is not the robots' angel, but they are her friends nevertheless. She will, I am sure, build on those lessons to heal the breach with her father, a breach both have contributed to. Whether she can, or should, heal Anthony himself is another question. We see her now at the closing of a long and trying day. The shock is new, the bandage not yet wrapped over the wound, from which pus and blood still ooze. But now it can at least begin to heal. This is deep, powerful, unflinching story telling. I do not think Tom will cheat us by revealing this to be a dream or hallucination. Nor will he cheat us by handing us a flat black enemy whom Annie must vanquish or be vanquished by. Instead, he has given us two human beings. |
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Post by speedwell on Apr 10, 2015 18:16:18 GMT
I just had a thought. We can't know from the comic. But what did Surma and Anthony discuss as to what to do with Antimony after Surma died? If some or all of this was according to Surma's wishes, would that change how we thought about any of it? I'm really not sure, myself.
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Post by Refugee on Apr 10, 2015 18:23:45 GMT
I just had a thought. We can't know from the comic. But what did Surma and Anthony discuss as to what to do with Antimony after Surma died? If some or all of this was according to Surma's wishes, would that change how we thought about any of it? I'm really not sure, myself. A sobering thought. Moreover, what if the very reason Surma choose Anthony was because she knew she was going to die, and that as Annie grew up, she'd need the stern hand more than the nurturing one? Knew Annie as she knew herself? In any case, your question is a valid one, an important one. How much of the vitriol would go away if it were Surma? If Annie were being punished by a loving, caring parent instead of...whatever Anthony is? |
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Post by nero on Apr 10, 2015 18:29:41 GMT
I haven't been this worried for Annie since she was in that coma.
It seems likely that Anthony could have told her to get a haircut.
Or maybe Annie chose to do so because she's losing Kat and Renard.
If Anthony bought the dress for Annie or chose it for her from her wardrobe then that is very wrong, and creepy.
But if Annie subconsciously picked that dress then that's just sad.
It would mean that Annie is okay with reverting back to the little girl in the hospital only this time without her mother.
I'm anxious for more pages so that we can learn more about Anthony and see that Annie gets out of her father's control.
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Post by fish on Apr 10, 2015 18:38:24 GMT
Hey look, one more dagger through my heart: (Clarification: this is a drawing by Tom which he posted on his twitter.)  Edit: I give up, this is my new avatar... |
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Post by guitarminotaur on Apr 10, 2015 18:39:56 GMT
I just had a thought. We can't know from the comic. But what did Surma and Anthony discuss as to what to do with Antimony after Surma died? If some or all of this was according to Surma's wishes, would that change how we thought about any of it? I'm really not sure, myself. A sobering thought. Moreover, what if the very reason Surma choose Anthony was because she knew she was going to die, and that as Annie grew up, she'd need the stern hand more than the nurturing one? Knew Annie as she knew herself? In any case, your question is a valid one, an important one. How much of the vitriol would go away if it were Surma? If Annie were being punished by a loving, caring parent instead of...whatever Anthony is? To be honest I've always been a little leery of Surma too. We're talking about the woman who manipulated Reynardine into loving her when she had no intention of reciprocating. I doubt Annie got her notorious flashes of anger from her father. |
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Post by ninjaraven on Apr 10, 2015 18:44:23 GMT
I'm wondering if Annie cut her own hair and dressed herself that way as a sort of retreat back to a time when she felt safe... back when her mother was around. I don't think Annie herself has ever dealt with her grief over her mom's death (and the new grief/guilt of being inadvertently "responsible" for said death). I also suspect that Annie hasn't felt too safe while at the Court - she's treated a lot of other people rather callously herself, and that she might've been expecting people to ditch her once they found out how she had treated them.
Annie really started to squirm once her father exposed her cheating from her best friend, who was listening. It's bad enough that her dad has isolated her from her friends physically to a great degree, but I'll bet that she feels she's royally botched up her friendship with Kat, and that their friendship is effectively over. And we've already had a chapter devoted to how Annie tries to resolve friendship disputes she has created (Ch. 32). She may feel that no one will fight for her because she been treating people pretty poorly herself, and it is no more than what she deserves. Annie may be in tko status more than she needs to be, because she doesn't realize that Kat still wants to be friends, and that she has friends that still will fight for her.
Not sure what to make of Anthony, if only because we haven't enough info to go on. Tom has used a form of narrative "forced persepective" - we've only seen Annie and Tony interact in a singe incident, and it's really difficult to call emotional abuse off a single incident (though from personal experience, it was weird hearing Tony call Annie's work in bio and history "satisfactory"; people who want you back under the screws don't give compliments, ever - now if you work just a liiiittle bit harder...). He does seem rather harsh, but then the situation may call for it (or at least, from Tony's perspective, it may warrant it)... argh, so much ambiguity!
This is the difficulty: nobody has all the info, not even us readers. Jumping to conclusions, one way or another is not a good way to go, even at this point (The number of people who want Tony harmed or killed in response to his treatment of Annie is seriously disturbing - do you condone the abuse of others as long as you feel it is justified in some way??? Isn't that what you say Tony is doing??!!). All that's clear is that today has been deeply unsettling for Annie, and most of us empathize with her. We hope she will rally soon.
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arzeik
Junior Member
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Post by arzeik on Apr 10, 2015 18:47:17 GMT
Hmmm, anything serious that could be said about this page must have been said in the former seven pages, I guess. So...
What if Annie thought Kat was angry with her for copying her work and decided to go have her hair cut so she could make it stick up and then Kat would be friends with her again, but it wasn't short enough so after wasting three wole cans of mousse she gave up, decided to have a shower to forget about her horrible day, put on her usual (http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=308) pyjamas and started tidying up the dorm?
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Post by Sky Schemer on Apr 10, 2015 18:52:55 GMT
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Post by speedwell on Apr 10, 2015 18:53:12 GMT
I just had a thought. We can't know from the comic. But what did Surma and Anthony discuss as to what to do with Antimony after Surma died? If some or all of this was according to Surma's wishes, would that change how we thought about any of it? I'm really not sure, myself. A sobering thought. Moreover, what if the very reason Surma choose Anthony was because she knew she was going to die, and that as Annie grew up, she'd need the stern hand more than the nurturing one? Knew Annie as she knew herself? In any case, your question is a valid one, an important one. How much of the vitriol would go away if it were Surma? If Annie were being punished by a loving, caring parent instead of...whatever Anthony is? Surma was beautiful and charismatic and helpless when we met her, like some Madonna from a Renaissance painting, but later we see she was clearly no angel. She was at least somewhat cold and mercenary in pursuit of the Court's goals. Witness how she led on Reynardine so expertly that he didn't so much as suspect he'd been played for literally years after her death, and would only believe it when told by the woman's own daughter/heiress. (Naturally a woman without genuine loving and caring feelings could not play false so convincingly, but if anything that makes it worse to me.) She was nonchalantly lawless in some of the flashbacks we see of her, but in my opinion her loyalty was given completely to the Court. It's interesting to go back over the pages where Surma appears and read them with a more distrustful approach. This is all, of course, just conjecture, opinion, arse-pulling even to some extent. What I think is coming together, though, is that the events where Surma is shown being intimate with Reynardine (not THAT sort of intimate, but close enough to raise an eyebrow) must have taken place after Surma broke up with James, given the common ground that James and Reynardine have now found with each other (being jilted by the same woman can sometimes foster a bond, in my male friends' experience). They could possibly have taken place before, or even after, she accepted (or engineered) Anthony's attachment. It is getting harder and harder for me to look at Anthony's actions in the current chapter and avoid seeing a sort of ferocious, possessive jealousy. I think it possible that Anthony is not trying to bind Antimony closer to the Court so much as he is trying desperately to cut her off from the Forest, not because he fears her fire elemental side, but because he is trying to stamp out any competition for her from the Forest's direction. He forces her to wipe off the "magic" makeup and denies her emotional reaction to his injured hand, perhaps because ungoverned emotion is a Forest characteristic. He denies her access to the Forest, of course. He transforms her back into a child to prevent, it might be, the Forest from having what he sees as a dangerously sexualized interest in her. He probably felt like he was in competition with the Forest for Surma's love, which would have been inexpressibly traumatizing to him, and he could be vowing bitterly to stop it from happening again. Again, I draw the parallel between the situation with Diego and Jeanne, with Anthony in the Diego spot and Antimony in the Jeanne spot, and the canines perhaps in the Green Guy spot. And this might be the emotional key that unlocks Jeanne, who seems to resent nothing so much as the "mockery" of a contented heart, and thus to crave nothing so much as understanding and empathy at the deepest levels. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Apr 10, 2015 18:54:21 GMT
This is all Boxbot's fault.
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Post by fish on Apr 10, 2015 18:56:07 GMT
Here's another cheerful thought:
Kat decides to take Annie to their cherry tree so they can have a moment alone, only to find the cherry tree gone and replaced with an apple tree. Yeeey.
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Post by guitarminotaur on Apr 10, 2015 18:58:03 GMT
Here's another cheerful thought: Kat decides to take Annie to their cherry tree so they can have a moment alone, only to find the cherry tree gone and replaced with an apple tree. Yeeey. Nonsense. It would have to be a lemon tree. |
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Post by aline on Apr 10, 2015 19:03:56 GMT
Hmmm, anything serious that could be said about this page must have been said in the former seven pages, I guess. So... What if Annie thought Kat was angry with her for copying her work and decided to go have her hair cut so she could make it stick up and then Kat would be friends with her again, but it wasn't short enough so after wasting three wole cans of mousse she gave up, decided to have a shower to forget about her horrible day, put on her usual (http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=308) pyjamas and started tidying up the dorm? You just made my day XD
I'm beginning to think that the first one who needs to help is Annie herself. She's got lots of friends, but what can they do against her own father if *she* won't resist him?
No fight in you, Carver
She's got to wake up, and that means Kat does have some really important things to do. 1. Hug Annie 2. Shake her up 3. Find out what the hell this whole mess is all about 4. Shake Annie some more
While these pages are quite creepy, I'm looking forward to the part that comes next: a fighting and growing Annie. I just wish it'd come sooner ^^° |
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Post by Refugee on Apr 10, 2015 19:09:39 GMT
"Lemon tree very pretty and the lemon flower is sweet,
But the fruit of the poor lemon is impossible to eat."
The story in that song...when it was popular, I was a small child and didn't understand it, I just liked the music.
Then as an adolescent I finally got it, and understood at long last that the lemon tree spoken of was a faithless women who cared nothing for her lovers, and left devastation in her wake, a loss of faith in not only her, but in love itself.
What if Anthony is bitter not because he thinks Antimony killed his beloved Surma, but because he finally realized that Surman never loved him at all. That she only used him as a sperm donor to get the daughter that would carry on her flame?
And that he is punishing Antimony as harshly as he is, not because he hates her, not because he's a controlling abuser, not even because he values academic achievement above his own child--but because he sees Annie's callous use of Kat as the attitude that led Surma to betray her own friends and lovers?
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Post by ctso74 on Apr 10, 2015 19:10:15 GMT
I actually would love thoughts on my post further back on this thread wondering if Anthony actually sees Antimony as a real person, with the right to the spirit that she took from Surma, or as a "thing" that reminds him of his failure and loss, and became a target instead of a daughter. I'm not saying it as clearly here as before. I don't know. Dichotomies and absolutes are rarely ever true. As for where between the two he may lay, we'd probably have to determine how he sees other people. We have little to go on, in regards to Ambiguous Anthony. How did he feel about Surma? What has he been doing the last few years? What does he currently think of the Ether? I believe in one comic Donald said, that he didn't like "Etheric stuff", but he seemed to have used the Ether in his "orbit surgery". |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 10, 2015 19:25:06 GMT
Here's another cheerful thought: Kat decides to take Annie to their cherry tree so they can have a moment alone, only to find the cherry tree gone and replaced with an apple tree. Yeeey. Nonsense. It would have to be a lemon tree. No no. A turnip field. It's good for you. |
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Post by guitarminotaur on Apr 10, 2015 19:28:05 GMT
Umm, I think I've missed the obvious.
The chapter's called "the tree", right? Annie and Kat have just reunited, so it's probably their next port of call while they talk the storm over.
...and I'm just now figuring out what everyone grasped by page 1, right?
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Post by ginbucketfish on Apr 10, 2015 19:36:32 GMT
Umm, I think I've missed the obvious. The chapter's called "the tree", right? Annie and Kat have just reunited, so it's probably their next port of call while they talk the storm over. ...and I'm just now figuring out what everyone grasped by page 1, right? I took the chapter title to be a reference to "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" With Annie being the apple and Anthony being the tree. I'm assuming (hoping) we'll get some context for Mr. Carver here. |
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Post by Refugee on Apr 10, 2015 19:37:59 GMT
Umm, I think I've missed the obvious. The chapter's called "the tree", right? Annie and Kat have just reunited, so it's probably their next port of call while they talk the storm over. ...and I'm just now figuring out what everyone grasped by page 1, right? I hope they do go to their tree and talk things over, yes. (Although Annie may not have time; she may be looking at a deadline for getting into her new packing crateapartment. (Or the Bad Girl closet in her Father's apartment, or whatever.) But that tree is a cherry tree. (Is it the tree that grew from Robot's arm? Can't remember.) The cover tree is an apple tree. I think it is the Tree of Forbidden Fruit (although it is not Anthony that is the serpent.) |
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Post by ctso74 on Apr 10, 2015 19:41:42 GMT
Wow, 6 pages of discussion already. Have people speculated on whether Annie's hair will still flow like crazy in the ether, or whether this part of her identity is removed. I doubt she'll go into the ether anytime soon. Her father will probably forbid that, if he hasn't already. Since the beginning of the chapter, I've been itching to see Tony in the Ether. What does he look like there? Does he look simple and practical, or is he something complete unexpected? Zimmy's punch, and acts of etheric surgery/sorcery, just makes me want to see it more. Again, I draw the parallel between the situation with Diego and Jeanne, with Anthony in the Diego spot and Antimony in the Jeanne spot, and the canines perhaps in the Green Guy spot. And this might be the emotional key that unlocks Jeanne, who seems to resent nothing so much as the "mockery" of a contented heart, and thus to crave nothing so much as understanding and empathy at the deepest levels. I don't know about Jeanne. Sometimes people hurt so bad, that the only way they'll think others can understand, is to cause the same pain. |
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