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Post by lunaleaf on Mar 27, 2015 21:41:31 GMT
You know what, cuttlefish? I like the way you think. Seconded. Thirded. Cuttlefish has some solid opinions on this topic. |
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Post by mglvna on Mar 27, 2015 22:08:16 GMT
Perhaps Antimony wouldn't be cheating so terribly if she had some support and guidance in these crucial years. Like from her father, maybe. I honestly don't understand how Anthony can be disappointed when he's actively avoided parenting her. If he wanted his kid to turn out better, he should've bothered to stick around and actually be a part of her life and education.
The fact that he found out she was cheating also tells us something: He KNEW she would be in his class beforehand. He must've known quite a while ago if he had the time to go through her schoolwork that thoroughly. And he STILL didn't make a single solitary effort to contact her beforehand. Showing up out of nowhere as her teacher was something he PLANNED, and his first words to her in years being used to mock her appearance was INTENTIONAL.
I don't think Kat will be mad for long, though. Not with what Annie's already been through today.
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Post by Corvo on Mar 27, 2015 22:36:01 GMT
Perhaps Antimony wouldn't be cheating so terribly if she had some support and guidance in these crucial years. Like from her father, maybe. I honestly don't understand how Anthony can be disappointed when he's actively avoided parenting her. If he wanted his kid to turn out better, he should've bothered to stick around and actually be a part of her life and education. The fact that he found out she was cheating also tells us something: He KNEW she would be in his class beforehand. He must've known quite a while ago if he had the time to go through her schoolwork that thoroughly. And he STILL didn't make a single solitary effort to contact her beforehand. Showing up out of nowhere as her teacher was something he PLANNED, and his first words to her in years being used to mock her appearance was INTENTIONAL. I don't think Kat will be mad for long, though. Not with what Annie's already been through today. I've been thinking, how many parents have we actually seen in the comic, besides the school staff? Do we really know how much contact the other students have with their families? Sure, Anthony wasn't there for summer vacations or anything, but maybe he wasn't that much of an absent parent, by Gunnerkrigg standards. Also, we don't know yet if Annie was completely in the dark about Tony being their new teacher. Seens to be the case thou. Edit: Nasty, nasty typos. |
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Post by Kitty Hamilton on Mar 27, 2015 22:41:40 GMT
Perhaps Antimony wouldn't be cheating so terribly if she had some support and guidance in these crucial years. Like from her father, maybe. I honestly don't understand how Anthony can be disappointed when he's actively avoided parenting her. If he wanted his kid to turn out better, he should've bothered to stick around and actually be a part of her life and education. The fact that he found out she was cheating also tells us something: He KNEW she would be in his class beforehand. He must've known quite a while ago if he had the time to go through her schoolwork that thoroughly. And he STILL didn't make a single solitary effort to contact her beforehand. Showing up out of nowhere as her teacher was something he PLANNED, and his first words to her in years being used to mock her appearance was INTENTIONAL. I don't think Kat will be mad for long, though. Not with what Annie's already been through today. I've beem thinking, how many parents have we actually seen in the comic, besides the school staff? Do we really know how much contact the other students have with their families? Sure, Anthony wasn't there for summer vacations or anything, but maybe he wasn't that much of an absent parent, by Gunnerkrigg standards. Also, we don't know yet if Annie was completely in the dark about Tony being their new teacher. Seens to be the case thou. I think that seeing Anthony for the first time, or learning he would arrive, would be a big enough deal that it would have been covered in the comic. Gunnerkrigg Court parenting standards are about the same as 'normal' when it comes to human students. Well, I guess we don't know that much...but we do know Kat, who seems to have an "average" family. Kat has exprssed hatred for Anthony, and feels that Annie always has an excuse for him. Eglamore was angry when Anthony sent that message to Annie out of nowhere, which i think was on her behalf. Other students in the class looked disturbed, and seemed to feel bad for Annie from Anthony's treatment of her. So, I think that Annie's situation is unusual. There are summer vacations, too. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 27, 2015 23:00:07 GMT
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 27, 2015 23:03:38 GMT
Perhaps Antimony wouldn't be cheating so terribly if she had some support and guidance in these crucial years. Like from her father, maybe. I honestly don't understand how Anthony can be disappointed when he's actively avoided parenting her. If he wanted his kid to turn out better, he should've bothered to stick around and actually be a part of her life and education. The fact that he found out she was cheating also tells us something: He KNEW she would be in his class beforehand. He must've known quite a while ago if he had the time to go through her schoolwork that thoroughly. And he STILL didn't make a single solitary effort to contact her beforehand. Showing up out of nowhere as her teacher was something he PLANNED, and his first words to her in years being used to mock her appearance was INTENTIONAL. I don't think Kat will be mad for long, though. Not with what Annie's already been through today. I've beem thinking, how many parents have we actually seen in the comic, besides the school staff? Do we really know how much contact the other students have with their families? Sure, Anthony wasn't there for summer vacations or anything, but maybe he wasn't that much of an absent parent, by Gunnerkrigg standards. Also, we don't know yet if Annie was completely in the dark about Tony being their new teacher. Seens to be the case thou. Exactly. This is a private school where kids spend all year without their parents. Not only Annie. The only difference are the vacations. And now he is getting involved with her education, which, when compared to the other students who do not require their parents to come guard them, is a failure from Annie's part. Hence, disappointed. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 27, 2015 23:09:25 GMT
I've beem thinking, how many parents have we actually seen in the comic, besides the school staff? Do we really know how much contact the other students have with their families? Sure, Anthony wasn't there for summer vacations or anything, but maybe he wasn't that much of an absent parent, by Gunnerkrigg standards. Also, we don't know yet if Annie was completely in the dark about Tony being their new teacher. Seens to be the case thou. I think that seeing Anthony for the first time, or learning he would arrive, would be a big enough deal that it would have been covered in the comic. Gunnerkrigg Court parenting standards are about the same as 'normal' when it comes to human students. Well, I guess we don't know that much...but we do know Kat, who seems to have an "average" family. Kat has exprssed hatred for Anthony, and feels that Annie always has an excuse for him. Eglamore was angry when Anthony sent that message to Annie out of nowhere, which i think was on her behalf. Other students in the class looked disturbed, and seemed to feel bad for Annie from Anthony's treatment of her. So, I think that Annie's situation is unusual. There are summer vacations, too. Jimmy is angry whenever Anthony's name has mentioned, mostly 1) because he has always disliked Anthony, and 2) because Anthony got Surma, who James still apparently loves, or at least cherishes the memory of their love. So, he was probably mostly angry on his own behalf. |
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Post by Kitty Hamilton on Mar 27, 2015 23:35:58 GMT
I think that seeing Anthony for the first time, or learning he would arrive, would be a big enough deal that it would have been covered in the comic. Gunnerkrigg Court parenting standards are about the same as 'normal' when it comes to human students. Well, I guess we don't know that much...but we do know Kat, who seems to have an "average" family. Kat has exprssed hatred for Anthony, and feels that Annie always has an excuse for him. Eglamore was angry when Anthony sent that message to Annie out of nowhere, which i think was on her behalf. Other students in the class looked disturbed, and seemed to feel bad for Annie from Anthony's treatment of her. So, I think that Annie's situation is unusual. There are summer vacations, too. Jimmy is angry whenever Anthony's name has mentioned, mostly 1) because he has always disliked Anthony, and 2) because Anthony got Surma, who James still apparently loves, or at least cherishes the memory of their love. So, he was probably mostly angry on his own behalf. Why not both? During that scene, it's not like everyone else was fine and only Eglamore only got flustered. Kat and her parents were all concerned. Annie was barely holding it together. Mr.Donlan felt it necessary to tell Annie a story about her father to reassure her of his love for her. Anger is a reaction to pain, and Anthony's call caused pain. Whoever his anger is on behalf of, it is still a reaction to specific behavior of Anthony's. |
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Post by psybershadow on Mar 27, 2015 23:41:23 GMT
Must say I'm quite taken with the symbolism in the fourth panel where it looks like Antimony's being buried by a part of her life crumbling apart.
Edit: I change around between "Annie" and "Antimony" depending just how I'm feeling, as I really like the symbolism behind Antimony's name, so I often like it more than the shortened version.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Mar 27, 2015 23:43:55 GMT
Possible, but I don't think the rest of the class would have reacted as much as they did if Annie was flagrantly defying a known no-cosmetics rule. |
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Post by Kitty Hamilton on Mar 27, 2015 23:57:20 GMT
Possible, but I don't think the rest of the class would have reacted as much as they did if Annie was flagrantly defying a known no-cosmetics rule. If Annie's make-up was supposed to be an example of intentional rule breaking or forgetfulness, then it would have been portrayed as such. It's possible in the next few pages we will learn that that was the case. However, at this point in time, with the information we have, I'd assume that Annie had no prior warning about cosmetics. After all, if it was written on a syllabus she'd already recieved Anthony probably would have mentioned it by now. I mean, he's already called her make-up ridiculous, said she made the class wait, and said expressed that her cheating was a disappointment. He is absolutely the kind of guy who would publically scold her for ignoring rules about cosmetics. If he hasn't done that yet, it's probably because she didn't do that. |
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Post by todd on Mar 28, 2015 0:22:32 GMT
Possible, but I don't think the rest of the class would have reacted as much as they did if Annie was flagrantly defying a known no-cosmetics rule. If Annie's make-up was supposed to be an example of intentional rule breaking or forgetfulness, then it would have been portrayed as such. That's pretty much the point I was making. If in the story, Anthony had provided advance warning to the class that cosmetics were forbidden, it should have been mentoned in the webcomic, because that detail gives a different perspective to the incident. I would hope that Tom's not thinking "I don't need to include that in the text because some of my readers have probably been to schools where the rules were made clear before class and will mentally insert that." If it's relevant to the characters' actions, it needs to be brought up in the text. (And I'm not sure how far we should go in assuming "Such and such a rule must be at the Court because it's at regular British schools." Regular British schools don't have highly advanced robots, intelligent giant crabs, students who used to be fairies or forest animals, or minotaurs having a time-share in a maze in the older parts of the school library.) |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Mar 28, 2015 0:41:36 GMT
If Annie's make-up was supposed to be an example of intentional rule breaking or forgetfulness, then it would have been portrayed as such. That's pretty much the point I was making. If in the story, Anthony had provided advance warning to the class that cosmetics were forbidden, it should have been mentoned in the webcomic, because that detail gives a different perspective to the incident. I would hope that Tom's not thinking "I don't need to include that in the text because some of my readers have probably been to schools where the rules were made clear before class and will mentally insert that." If it's relevant to the characters' actions, it needs to be brought up in the text. (And I'm not sure how far we should go in assuming "Such and such a rule must be at the Court because it's at regular British schools." Regular British schools don't have highly advanced robots, intelligent giant crabs, students who used to be fairies or forest animals, or minotaurs having a time-share in a maze in the older parts of the school library.) My guess is that Tom did not expect the forum to get hung up on Anthony's syllabus. But I could be wrong. |
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Post by sabriel on Mar 28, 2015 1:08:10 GMT
Anthony aside, I really don't get why people are saying this is going to cause a rift between Annie and Kat, or that Kat will be angry. When Annie ran away after spotting Kat kissing Paz, Kat handled the situation maturely and demonstrated that she's both willing and capable when it comes to dealing with Annie's hangups. I feel like Kat is less likely to be angry and more likely to be distressed that Annie has been trying to struggle alone. I feel like if she's going to be hurt at all, it'll be over the fact that Annie didn't trust Kat enough to ask her for help.
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Post by edzepp on Mar 28, 2015 1:08:58 GMT
Ah the syllabus. We sure seem hung up on a supposed document that the comic itself hasn't bothered to explain in any detail or ascribe any importance to beyond a solitary line that merely confirms that a syllabus-shaped object exists and nothing more.
It's almost like it's not really relevant to this situation and any qualities we're attaching to it are purely imaginary.
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Post by Max on Mar 28, 2015 1:21:43 GMT
Anthony aside, I really don't get why people are saying this is going to cause a rift between Annie and Kat, or that Kat will be angry. When Annie ran away after spotting Kat kissing Paz, Kat handled the situation maturely and demonstrated that she's both willing and capable when it comes to dealing with Annie's hangups. That was a little different. Kat was worried about Annie accepting her, and Annie hadn't really done anything to Kat, just freaked out. Here, Kat is learning that her best friend has been free-riding on her hard work without asking, and she looks hurt at that. And Kat has avoided Annie in the past. See: her attitude at the start of their 3rd year. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 28, 2015 1:31:47 GMT
Antimony did drop in in the middle of first year, so she would have missed any orientation. She should have gotten a sillybus though, I assume, but being a legacy and a woobie I suppose it is possible that the rest of the teachers decided to let her skate on the makeup issue. [edit] It's not like she's whoring it up. [/edit]
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lit
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Post by lit on Mar 28, 2015 1:38:02 GMT
if syllabus was unknown before the class (in which case my question is "what the f-ing school is this!?") It's a fictional school in a fantasy universe. When I was in high school, syllabi were not distributed before the first day of class. No high school biology course that I took had a no-makeup clause listed in the syllabus. Most syllabi that I received did not have a section that detailed rules other than an attendance policy or an academic dishonesty policy. So there is no policy about biology syllabi that is universal to all schools. A premise of the story is that Gunnerkrigg Court is not a normal place. It is possible we will later find out that a syllabus had been made available and that makeup was banned in the syllabus, and this is interesting to speculate on, but for now we'll have to accept that we don't know for sure what the practices surrounding syllabi in Gunnerkrigg are, and that all we are doing is speculating. We probably can also speculate that Antimony has been to biology classes in the Court wearing makeup before without incident. We might find out later that Carver made up that rule on the spot. The fact is, regardless of whether or not Antimony *should have known* about the makeup ban already, there are ways Carver could have alerted Antimony to this fact without being vicious or cruel, and he deliberately chose to humiliate her and make her feel small. These aren't the actions of a father who is concerned about the emotional well-being of his daughter. This is especially true given that it's the first contact with her (apart from the phone message) in the three years since her mother died and he abandoned her at the school. The man threw her away. It's not that difficult to imagine the possibility that she might be struggling as a result. But Carver seemingly blames Antimony for it, even though he's literally the one who put her in that position. He should be apologizing to her. |
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Post by edzepp on Mar 28, 2015 2:04:39 GMT
I agree with lit that man, we are getting way too hung up on a detail that the comic has not ascribed any real importance to.
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Post by The Anarch on Mar 28, 2015 2:15:48 GMT
Tom really should have handed out a syllabus before this chapter started.
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Post by edzepp on Mar 28, 2015 2:28:57 GMT
Tom's syllabus should say that Tony's syllabus is absolutely not the goddamn point of all this.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Mar 28, 2015 2:34:47 GMT
So that's what Tom meant with the chapter title "The Tree": We can't see the forest because of the tree!
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Post by OrzBrain on Mar 28, 2015 4:33:52 GMT
I wondered how he was going to cleave her from her friends. I expected something good, but I must say, this is a stroke of sheer genius. In one quick smooth cut Anthony has neutralized the most powerful stabilizing and supporting influence upon her (although I suppose just a touch more of the blade may be required to keep Kat from acting all sensible about it. I'm sure he'll think of something.). Now about all he has to do is to get rid of Reynard and she will be completely isolated.
I wonder how good he would be at manipulating Jones. Would her supposed lack of understanding of humanity make her predictable and easy to control, or would her great age and experience allow her to go "Hmm. That makes perfect sense. A most extraordinary amount of perfect sense. And just what are the possible long term results and implications of this thing which is so perfectly sensible? What are the motivations for it?".
I also wonder what Anthony is, exactly, that he is so very good at manipulation after previously appearing to be a dunce about interpersonal relations. I've always suspected that Coyote must have human avatars inside the Court through which he could shape events while remaining seemingly aloof. Has Anthony Carver always been a flesh robot for Coyote? Why precisely did Surma choose him over all other prospects? Was she not aware of what would happen to her if she had a child? Would she not have selected for emotional stability and an ability to care for and about the child (her, in a sense) after her death?
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Post by gunnerwf on Mar 28, 2015 7:04:29 GMT
I wondered how he was going to cleave her from her friends. I expected something good, but I must say, this is a stroke of sheer genius. In one quick smooth cut Anthony has neutralized the most powerful stabilizing and supporting influence upon her (although I suppose just a touch more of the blade may be required to keep Kat from acting all sensible about it. I'm sure he'll think of something.). Now about all he has to do is to get rid of Reynard and she will be completely isolated. I wonder how good he would be at manipulating Jones. Would her supposed lack of understanding of humanity make her predictable and easy to control, or would her great age and experience allow her to go "Hmm. That makes perfect sense. A most extraordinary amount of perfect sense. And just what are the possible long term results and implications of this thing which is so perfectly sensible? What are the motivations for it?". I also wonder what Anthony is, exactly, that he is so very good at manipulation after previously appearing to be a dunce about interpersonal relations. I've always suspected that Coyote must have human avatars inside the Court through which he could shape events while remaining seemingly aloof. Has Anthony Carver always been a flesh robot for Coyote? Why precisely did Surma choose him over all other prospects? Was she not aware of what would happen to her if she had a child? Would she not have selected for emotional stability and an ability to care for and about the child (her, in a sense) after her death? |
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jocobo
Junior Member
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Post by jocobo on Mar 28, 2015 8:15:13 GMT
My lingering issues with Anthony at this stage is largely that from no matter what perspective I view his actions there was almost ALWAYS a better way to have gone about it.
So let's assume no make-up was on the syllabus. He simply could have said "Antimony, make-up is prohibited within this classroom. Head to the rest room and wash it off. We will begin after you return."
Calling it ridiculous wasn't necessary. In fact it was unprofessional. While a parent (and while Anthony might be her father, he has yet to show evidence of parenting) might get away with critiquing the make-up in such a fashion, it really isn't an educators place to do so, especially without establishing a level of rapport with the student first. And he is also the one to reinforce the teacher-student relationship, telling her to call him sir. If that's the boundary he intends to establish in the classroom he needs to respect it himself.
I also find his "disappointment" in Annie cheating to be rather funny. While she most certainly is in the wrong for cheating, he's not exactly blameless. One of the most common causes of rebelliousness, disinterest in scholastics and other forms of misbehavior etc is a due to their environment and background. And look at Annie's background.
You cannot leave a child for 2 years with no parental figure, while said child was going through a period of bereavement, thrust her into a a new school after years of home-schooling, a school in which she will immediately encounter a variety of experiences she was in no way prepared for including life and death situations, and return and be shocked they've misbehaved in your absence. It is in fact something of a miracle, or merely a testament to Annie's fortitude, that she is managing to function as well as she is.
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Post by albeon on Mar 28, 2015 8:16:41 GMT
Personally I never have gotten a syllabi until the first day of class, before that I get most of the books along with the list telling me which classes I am in.
We have now established there is no rules to when the rules and such are handed out.
Thus clearly there are no rules.
party
party, party, party
par~ty
par~ty
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Post by sapientcoffee on Mar 28, 2015 8:25:56 GMT
Party is the only sensible option.
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 28, 2015 10:16:18 GMT
The main question however: Anthony ran in without any warning, didn't distribute syllabus until the first lesson either... and yet he already knows that Annie cheats, in details. Question: who and at which moment told him so? A) Someone called Mr. Untraceable about it in the first place? How interesting. Who and how? B) He was told about it after his arrival? Someone considered her year-long cheating more urgent than letting a new teacher set up everything in ungodly haste? It's bullshit - one needs to be Anthony to not notice the smell. And thus probably indeed a provocation. C) He picked up the accumulated reports on how Annie does and perused them on the way to rattling off the script? In this case, plausible, though there's still plenty of room for fishy shenanigans. Cold, reptilian creature that he is, the reality of where Anthony could take this is a stressful prospect to say the least. I agree that his head is screwed on the wrong way, but what do you have against reptiles? That guy from Cardiff in the previous chapter was pretty nice. And probably warm, for that matter.  You haven't heard his remedy to the situation yet... and the logical one would be to separate Antimony and Kat. Quite possibly. I wonder if Anthony not giving Annie a book had something to do with watching to see how she worked together with Kat. I feel like something about this was important, but I can't fully put my finger on it. See the previous quote. Either that, or he's just quietly nostalgic. So, I'd say he was very kind or at minimum sensitive toward her. Or he read it in a teacher's handbook. Fourthly, he might have wanted to observe how she works with Kat - does she rather just copy Kat, letting her do all the work, or did she actually study with Kat, contributing some herself, in which case this could be a way to make her study and learn: pair her up with Kat so that she gets personal tutoring and might catch a nerd bug. ...or that. Who knows? So far, Anthony's mental processes were far too "peculiar" for anyone but Ol' Good Donny to figure out. I can guess with any degree of reliability only that he either gives exactly zero rat asses about whether anyone understands him, gave up attempts to speak clearer as hopeless, and/or have some fortification-grade delusions covering this problem. And if in the bottleneck like that one needs a little flechette canister to probably scratch this dude, then what chance is to hit in the open field with darts? Maybe he's just an anthropomorphic personification of frustration? |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 28, 2015 11:32:23 GMT
Party is the only sensible option. A welcoming party at Chester? Maybe it's just the fact that his absence has been a defining part of the comic until this chapter but I have trouble imagining Antimony in class with her father all this year. I could see Anthony giving prize pupil Kat extra lessons, since he is in need of a hand or hand reconstruction and she could benefit from applied Court technology from someone with an intricate knowledge of biology and anatomy. Added benefit: Even less free time for the girls to hang after school, plus added awkwardness! [edit] Just joking about Chester, that's for forest weirdos. More likely she'll have to repeat a year or get dropped to dunce courses within the same house. [/edit] |
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west
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Post by west on Mar 28, 2015 17:19:58 GMT
It's not about taking over their lives, but guiding them, supporting them and encouraging their positive development into independent, happy people. If Anthony is a bad parent it's because he's neglected those things. If he thinks the most important thing he can offer his daughter, after a years long absence, is an admonishment for cheating... then he is a terrible parent. You've hit the nail on the head. I also suspect that he's twisting the knife deliberately, testing her self-control: if she has another flare-up like Fire Spike, then, well, more work to be done. But it speaks to his own biases that he ignores what she has accomplished in the Forest and with her etheric abilities, both of which the Court explicitly encouraged her to develop, to denigrate her for cheating. Yes, it needed to be addressed -- two years cribbing off Kat's work behind her back is a bit ridiculous -- but the way he's chosen to do so suggests either a blinding lack of awareness of (or interest in) the other facets of her life or an ulterior motive. My money's on the latter. Incidentally, since he insisted that she call him "Sir", shouldn't he address her as "Carver" instead of "Antimony" while they're in the classroom? Didn't Annie dream alittle bit about cheating when Zimmy was wondering around her mind? Maybe that was enough of a hint for Anthony to investigate his daughter's school work? That's eerily believable. "Also, Antimony, this Kamlen individual is clearly incompatible..." |
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