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Post by fwip on Mar 18, 2015 18:24:22 GMT
I believe this would be time for a "panic hat". I don't know what one would look like, but I imagine its color is a bruisy black and blue.  As opposed to the Shame Hat. Dunce caps don't have tassels though. |
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Post by warrl on Mar 18, 2015 18:26:24 GMT
<airSupply>
I've lain there alone wishing I had your phone
Thinking of you till it hurts
I know you hurt too but what else could I do
Your choice was to keep us apart
I fought really hard, kept your smile in my heart
For times when my life seemed so low
It would make me believe what tomorrow could bring
From the father I didn't know... but now I know...
I'm all out of love, been so lost without you
I tried very hard, believing for so long
You've thrown away love, life's better without you
It's time I face truth and say you are so wrong
</airSupply>
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Mar 18, 2015 18:27:12 GMT
I believe I said "sit in silence". *sniff-snorf* An intruder?? Another GKC character??? In MY Forest Forum?  Subsequently:  |
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Post by KMar on Mar 18, 2015 18:30:16 GMT
Think back to your schooling (unless things are very different in America.) I have seen many teachers behave in ways which were, on the face of it, far crueler than this. (I'm not from America) and I have hard time recalling anything like this from any teacher I've seen. One teacher was outright terrible because she had nothing resembling authority at all and her classes were a mess, and another hated his job and some students hated him, so there was a slight tension in the class which manifested as passive-aggressive back-and-forth about doing homework. Snide comments about appearance of a student, or outright personal attacks? Brr. Some hair styles were not allowed if there was dangerous equipment, and that was quite reasonable. For cooking classes, the teacher would request not wear heavy makeup. Some more old fashioned teachers would have lengthy discussions about how it's good manners not wear headwear inside a building with some students that did. "The class will sit in silence until you return"? Good grief, that would raise eyebrows. If that continued, I'd expect Very Serious Discussions with Important People sooner or later. |
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Post by mordekai on Mar 18, 2015 19:14:13 GMT
Annie is SO running to the forest and staying there! I think this page could be a clue: www.gunnerkrigg.com/comics/00001452.jpgAnnie will run to the forest and Kat will go after her and try to get her back. Also, Coyote will be very pissed that his toy is broken. |
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Post by atteSmythe on Mar 18, 2015 19:29:16 GMT
Also, Coyote will be very pissed that his toy is broken. No way, this is much more interesting. Imagine the possibilities! |
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Post by mcbibble on Mar 18, 2015 19:32:36 GMT
Think back to your schooling (unless things are very different in America.) I have seen many teachers behave in ways which were, on the face of it, far crueler than this. (I'm not from America) and I have hard time recalling anything like this from any teacher I've seen. One teacher was outright terrible because she had nothing resembling authority at all and her classes were a mess, and another hated his job and some students hated him, so there was a slight tension in the class which manifested as passive-aggressive back-and-forth about doing homework. Snide comments about appearance of a student, or outright personal attacks? Brr. Some hair styles were not allowed if there was dangerous equipment, and that was quite reasonable. For cooking classes, the teacher would request not wear heavy makeup. Some more old fashioned teachers would have lengthy discussions about how it's good manners not wear headwear inside a building with some students that did. "The class will sit in silence until you return"? Good grief, that would raise eyebrows. If that continued, I'd expect Very Serious Discussions with Important People sooner or later. We had a history teacher who had a longstanding feud with one of the class jokers. He would make him read from the textbook aloud, knowing full well he had dyslexia. He never got in trouble for this. By god we hated him. There was the casually sexist rugby player teacher who was incredibly dismissive of female pupils, particuarly those who wore makeup or rolled their skirts as most of us did. He would openly speculate about which of us would put out for the 'lads'. (He did get in trouble for inappropriate behaviour eventually, but not before time.) There was more than one teacher who would lock you in the supply closet. We had a technology teacher who threw a hacksaw at one of the girls in my class (missed by a mile but still) and jumped up and down on another girls bag in a rage once. (To be fair, none of us really blamed him for that one.) Teachers who openly screamed into the faces of students, that wasn't particularly uncommon even. We had a free-Presbyterian spanish teacher who gave us 30 minute lectures about how 'ungodly' we all were. (Again, to be fair...) Boy, I'm making my childhood sound like a victorian novel! I'm from northern ireland originally, and finished school for good in 2007, so a lot of this was happening in the 20th century, and NI is always about 30 years behind the rest of the west because of the Troubles, so. But yeah, I wouldn't have batted an eyelid at a teacher doing what Anthony just did, on the face of it it's quite tame. It's in the context of the story and the characters we know and love that it becomes unbearably painful. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 18, 2015 19:43:24 GMT
Think back to your schooling (unless things are very different in America.) I have seen many teachers behave in ways which were, on the face of it, far crueler than this. (I'm not from America) and I have hard time recalling anything like this from any teacher I've seen. One teacher was outright terrible because she had nothing resembling authority at all and her classes were a mess, and another hated his job and some students hated him, so there was a slight tension in the class which manifested as passive-aggressive back-and-forth about doing homework. Snide comments about appearance of a student, or outright personal attacks? Brr. Some hair styles were not allowed if there was dangerous equipment, and that was quite reasonable. For cooking classes, the teacher would request not wear heavy makeup. Some more old fashioned teachers would have lengthy discussions about how it's good manners not wear headwear inside a building with some students that did. "The class will sit in silence until you return"? Good grief, that would raise eyebrows. If that continued, I'd expect Very Serious Discussions with Important People sooner or later. Um, I can remember arbitrary rules, aimed at single student, and especially teachers making pointless snide remarks on students. Sounds like school to me. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 18, 2015 19:46:04 GMT
Annie is SO running to the forest and staying there! I think this page could be a clue: www.gunnerkrigg.com/comics/00001452.jpgAnnie will run to the forest and Kat will go after her and try to get her back. Also, Coyote will be very pissed that his toy is broken. No no. Kat will build a robot army and fight the forest, Annie will be leading the opposing army with Ys'. |
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kralex
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Post by kralex on Mar 18, 2015 20:23:41 GMT
I wonder if there's any connection between the two stories. Diego built a device to kill the forest aspect in the love of his life after she rejected him, and left behind an empty shell that now haunts the Annan waters. Wild speculation: Anthony tried to save Surma, but failed. Their daughter is practically the reincarnation of his beloved, dead wife. He won't let the same thing happen to Annie. That fire elemental has got to go, one way or another. Wilder speculation: Could Anthony know about Diego's device, or trying to reinvent a similar technology? If Annie et al. should free Jeanne and recover the arrow, they better keep it away from dad. Might give him ideas. |
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 18, 2015 21:00:05 GMT
I suspect that her doing that was precisely Tony's plan This requires him to know she got a blinker ( possibility of which there is no reason to assume) and being able to predict her reactions. And from what we have seen of him so far, there's no evidence that Anthony can understand, let alone predict, reactions of any more-or-less human being. Or that of any terrestrial multicellular animal not under general anaesthesia, for that matter. After all, why on earth would he ask for common medical supplies delivered by satellite if he's working at a hospital? Why necessarily "on Earth"? And if not, how else would he get them to the Enigmaron's moonbase on the Moon (or "only" L2)? By truck? Um, I can remember arbitrary rules, aimed at single student, and especially teachers making pointless snide remarks on students. Sounds like school to me. The mystery is solved! Anthony didn't have a slightest idea how to teach a class for the next generation, so there was only one sensible resolution to this problem: he must covertly observe a public school and then imitate as best as he can to blend in. Diego built a device to kill the forest aspect in the love of his life You're stretching it past the plastic limit, IMO. |
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Post by fish on Mar 18, 2015 21:23:28 GMT
[...] Tom, however, I feel actually writes as a serial writer. That is, he expects the reader to read a page, and dwell on it for a while and take it seriously. I've notice that the composition of a lot of his individual pages seem to involve a clear beginning, middle, and end, as opposed to simply feeling like one part of the whole chapter. Each page is its own story in a sense, even if that story is as simple as "girl stumbles to the bathroom and looks at herself in a mirror." In a sense, his pages ARE a series of cliffhangers, and very intentionally so. And following a cliffhanger up with "it was just a dream!" is ALWAYS lame. I feel like if this was a dream, the pages would be presented differently, and we'd likely already have confirmation of it. I agree completely! Especially about the page compositions; I've also noticed they feel like their own little complete stories. It's like every page has a "punchline" or a certain point it presents. And a dream sequence would feel different, I think. Have we ever even seen a real dream in the story, except for Annie's memory-dream in Fire Spike and the images of Annie's subconscious in Divine? Most of the time I don't like dream sequences in fantasy stories, they don't feel like real dreams and are often used as 'prophetic' or symbolic elements to the plot. Which is an overused trope, in my opinion; dreams simply don't work that way. Writing authentic dreams is, I think, very difficult. That said, I'd love to see how Tom would handle dreams in his story, but I'd rather not see a dream sequence in GC at all than see Tom resort to dream-tropes that have been used a million times before. His emotionless entrance to the class does not leave the slighest hint of a crack one might use to lever out his authority "Cracks" are for bullied children who dream to become a bully for two minutes and pull each other's hair when they think no one looks. The situation at hand begs for old good malicious compliance. To which Anthony probably have no resistance at all, though they don't know it yet. I believe you underestimate Anthony. He doesn't need traditional mechanisms of resistance to defiance. Any verbal attack thrown his way would glide right past him, or rather be sucked into the black hole that is his unchanging glare. Any student who might find the nerve to raise their voice in the few minutes that Annie is gone, ignoring Anthony's command of silence, would simply not get any reaction from him at all and fall silent again on their own. At least this is how I imagine that scenario to play out. I might be wrong like I often am. |
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Post by wombat on Mar 18, 2015 21:40:08 GMT
You know, as someone who only very occasionally wears makeup, I have to say that Annie's seems to come off very easily. I always find mine a pain to remove.
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Post by fish on Mar 18, 2015 21:50:30 GMT
You know, as someone who only very occasionally wears makeup, I have to say that Annie's seems to come off very easily. I always find mine a pain to remove. Haha, that's true! It's like Annie's makeup is made of water color. But then again, I guess, we are not shown how long it takes her to rub it off her face because she herself can't even tell anymore. |
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kralex
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by kralex on Mar 18, 2015 22:17:20 GMT
I suspect that her doing that was precisely Tony's plan This requires him to know she got a blinker ( possibility of which there is no reason to assume) and being able to predict her reactions. And from what we have seen of him so far, there's no evidence that Anthony can understand, let alone predict, reactions of any more-or-less human being. Or that of any terrestrial multicellular animal not under general anaesthesia, for that matter. I was Surma's blinker. Tony knows when she got it, he knows the Donlans kept it, and he can reasonably assume that they'd pass it on to Annie. She has the same etheric abilities as Surma, after all, and she is in a natural position to take Surma's role as court medium. Training for medium duties would call for her getting the blinker stone. All information available to Tony indicates that Annie would get the blinker when she did. He may be utterly incapable of social interaction, but he's not stupid. I think he knows pretty exactly what he's doing to Annie by refusing contact like that; it just can't be helped, he has a job to do. After he made that call and requested a shipment - how could she not try to sneak in the blinker to find out where he was? It doesn't take much understanding of human nature, significantly less than I believe Tony has, to figure that one out. After all, why on earth would he ask for common medical supplies delivered by satellite if he's working at a hospital? Why necessarily "on Earth"? And if not, how else would he get them to the Enigmaron's moonbase on the Moon (or "only" L2)? By truck? What's all this talk about the Enigmarons, and what would they want with scalpels? They have no arms! Diego built a device to kill the forest aspect in the love of his life You're stretching it past the plastic limit, IMO. Yeah, it's not much. Probably just two unrelated plots on the general court-vs-forest background. |
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Post by The Anarch on Mar 18, 2015 22:20:26 GMT
It being a dream and it actually happening aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Has anyone posited yet that this could be another etheric invasion by Tony a la Divine? It may be this time that Annie herself is marginally aware that it's happening. She may even be able to break through like she did with the wisp and become fully aware of what's going on in a lucid dreaming sort of way. Perhaps the cut on her face will reappear as she's looking in the mirror, tipping her off. Tony's face being a little messed up and him keeping his right hand in his pocket might be because of lasting damage done by Zimmy to his etheric form similar to Annie's own facial scar. It might show up on him in this instance where Annie's doesn't show up on her because he's there etherically while she's just dreaming, like it was in Divine.
Or it could be just one or the other straight out. More data required!
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Post by Per on Mar 18, 2015 22:56:14 GMT
General observation: the fact that people spent eighteen pages discussing Anthony's level of jerkness doesn't mean it's not a dream sequence.
(It is a dream sequence.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 23:27:37 GMT
Jim North, I really like that idea. I don't get why so many people seem to think it is a straight up dream sequence though. I mean, it could be; Gunnerkrigg Court is anything but predictable, but I don't see any evidence that it is. Tom has used art style shifts before, and I don't remember any case where it was used to indicate a dream.
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Shire
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Post by Shire on Mar 18, 2015 23:28:50 GMT
You know, as someone who only very occasionally wears makeup, I have to say that Annie's seems to come off very easily. I always find mine a pain to remove. I've worn makeup on-stage, and it is a pain to remove. And somewhat painful! |
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Post by youwiththeface on Mar 18, 2015 23:55:05 GMT
It being a dream and it actually happening aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Has anyone posited yet that this could be another etheric invasion by Tony a la Divine? It may be this time that Annie herself is marginally aware that it's happening. She may even be able to break through like she did with the wisp and become fully aware of what's going on in a lucid dreaming sort of way. Perhaps the cut on her face will reappear as she's looking in the mirror, tipping her off. Tony's face being a little messed up and him keeping his right hand in his pocket might be because of lasting damage done by Zimmy to his etheric form similar to Annie's own facial scar. It might show up on him in this instance where Annie's doesn't show up on her because he's there etherically while she's just dreaming, like it was in Divine. Or it could be just one or the other straight out. More data required! I like this idea. I have no clue if that's the way this is actually going to go, but I wouldn't be the least bit sad if it was. On the subject of what the teachers at the court knew or didn't know about him showing up in advance, remember how Anja learned of Surma's death and Antimony's existence. It was when she saw that Annie would be coming to school at Gunnerkrigg, which implies that not only did neither Anthony nor Surma let any of their old friends know they'd had a child, but Anthony did not inform any of them that Surma was dead. So seemingly it wouldn't be out of character for Mr. Carver to show up unannounced. |
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Post by fish on Mar 18, 2015 23:55:39 GMT
This requires him to know she got a blinker ( possibility of which there is no reason to assume) and being able to predict her reactions. And from what we have seen of him so far, there's no evidence that Anthony can understand, let alone predict, reactions of any more-or-less human being. Or that of any terrestrial multicellular animal not under general anaesthesia, for that matter. I was Surma's blinker. Tony knows when she got it, he knows the Donlans kept it, and he can reasonably assume that they'd pass it on to Annie. She has the same etheric abilities as Surma, after all, and she is in a natural position to take Surma's role as court medium. Training for medium duties would call for her getting the blinker stone. All information available to Tony indicates that Annie would get the blinker when she did. The blinker stone was given to Annie by Muut, as a supposed present from Mort. It was not Surma's stone, we don't know if she even used one. Anja Donlan was the one to teach Annie how to use it simply because she is a magic user close to Annie. We later learn the stone was given to her by the psychopomps in hope she would use it to help them with Jeanne's case. Her medium training had nothing to do with the stone. So I have to agree with TBeholder here, Anthony could not know she has a blinker stone, unless he had contact to someone in the Court. |
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 19, 2015 0:10:49 GMT
Sauce? Tony knows when she got it, he knows the Donlans kept it, and he can reasonably assume that they'd pass it on to Annie. And they had to do it via Muut, no less. At this point your hypothesis becomes excessively convoluted. It doesn't take much understanding of human nature, significantly less than I believe Tony has, to figure that one out. At this point it's just for the sake of argument, but between his writhing before Brinnie and failure to at least not present himself as a freshly excavated jerkosaur on his first appearance before the students, said understanding doesn't look any greater than Zimmy's science fair project. What's all this talk about the Enigmarons, and what would they want with scalpels? They have no arms! Then had to build a magical bonelaser at their moonbase on the Moon. Somehow. Tony doesn't grok etheric stuff, so Enigmarons are the best bet here.  |
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Post by fish on Mar 19, 2015 0:15:47 GMT
Oh! Annie's hair should be parted on the other side in the mirror's reflection! Whoops!
OR the Court is using video cameras and flatscreens instead of mirrors!
But I'll assume this was deliberate; seeing Annie's face properly reflected would likely throw the reader off and prevent them from fully taking in the psychological implications of this page.
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Post by todd on Mar 19, 2015 0:20:41 GMT
We don't know for certain that Anthony is trying to remove Annie's fire elemental heritage; that's just speculation at this point.
I wonder whether Anthony is being so harsh on Annie as an available target for his grief and anger over Surma's death. The cause of her death is actually an impersonal etheric process that resulted from some mating betwen a human and a fire elemental in the remote past. The human in question is no doubt long since dead, and who knows where the fire elemental is and if it's even still around? So Anthony can't confront them - and yet, presumably, he has the urge to go after *somebody* at this point, to vent his pain upon - and Annie, whose birth led to Surma's death, is the most likely candidate for it. It's like someone angry at the world or the government or something beyond his reach kicking a dog. Maybe Anthony's being so cold and cruel to Annie because it's the only way (from his perspective) he can deal with the loss of his wife.
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Post by fish on Mar 19, 2015 0:25:51 GMT
We don't know for certain that Anthony is trying to remove Annie's fire elemental heritage; that's just speculation at this point. you! People speak to easily of speculation like it is fact. I, personally, am not a fan of this theory in particular (though I don't have any alternative ones, either). |
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Post by The Anarch on Mar 19, 2015 0:29:51 GMT
(though I don't have any alternative ones, either). I figure it's possible he isn't trying to remove it but simply alter it so that she can keep that elemental part but it won't kill her to pass it on. Or make it where she doesn't pass it on at all while still being able to bear children, or something else to that effect. |
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Post by goldenknots on Mar 19, 2015 1:08:50 GMT
I seem to recall that all dreams and flashbacks have been indicated by a lack of sharp corners on the panels.
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Post by Corvo on Mar 19, 2015 1:37:05 GMT
(though I don't have any alternative ones, either). I figure it's possible he isn't trying to remove it but simply alter it so that she can keep that elemental part but it won't kill her to pass it on. Or make it where she doesn't pass it on at all while still being able to bear children, or something else to that effect. I'm fond of the theory that he's actually trying to reproduce this effect, so he can pass his own soul totem to another body, effectively finding the secret of immortality, along with the cure for all known diseases. I seem to recall that all dreams and flashbacks have been indicated by a lack of sharp corners on the panels. of them, but not all. See chapter 22. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2015 1:52:07 GMT
I seem to recall that all dreams and flashbacks have been indicated by a lack of sharp corners on the panels. of them, but not all. Remember Chapter 22. Chapter 22 actually does have the rounded corners on the first page (the page after the title page), which makes sense because it's obvious from the start that it's a flashback. But one place where this doesn't appear is in 44 when the whisp distracts Annie, because that would have given it away. So there is precedent for the rounded corners not being used in places where Annie herself doesn't realize that what's happening is all in her mind. |
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Post by Corvo on Mar 19, 2015 1:55:41 GMT
Most of them, but not all. Remember Chapter 22. Chapter 22 actually does have the rounded corners on the first page (the page after the title page), which makes sense because it's obvious from the start that it's a flashback. But one place where this doesn't appear is in 44 when the whisp distracts Annie, because that would have given it away. So there is precedent for the rounded corners not being used in places where Annie herself doesn't realize that what's happening is all in her mind. Yes. Also, Divine. |
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