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Post by fish on Mar 18, 2015 13:41:52 GMT
I believe I said "sit in silence". Anthonyyyyy!!! *shakes fist angrily* Ah, a shame. None of my three predictions from the last page came true. Mainly because I forgot all about dissociation. Thanks, edzepp, for the reminder! |
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binks
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Post by binks on Mar 18, 2015 13:43:24 GMT
I Like the idea that the childish art style represents how her father showing up out of nowhere and immediately talking down to her like a child is completely knocking her off kilter. It's making her feel like a helpless little girl again, despite all the growing she's done and how strong she's become.
My hope is that her seeing her face normally in the mirror in the last panel is her seeing past that. That it's her remembering that she's not a scared little girl, that she's strong and smart and doesn't need to put up with daddy's crap.
That's my hope anyway
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Post by machival on Mar 18, 2015 13:52:14 GMT
I Like the idea that the childish art style represents how her father showing up out of nowhere and immediately talking down to her like a child is completely knocking her off kilter. It's making her feel like a helpless little girl again, despite all the growing she's done and how strong she's become. My hope is that her seeing her face normally in the mirror in the last panel is her seeing past that. That it's her remembering that she's not a scared little girl, that she's strong and smart and doesn't need to put up with daddy's crap. That's my hope anyway Hopefully. It'll be interesting to see if Tom lingers on the reflection in the next page (to show a change, such as reversion to caricature or an angry face) or if he just presses on to the next action in this sequence. |
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Post by fish on Mar 18, 2015 13:59:53 GMT
I'm for the "she's feeling like a little girl all of sudden" interpretation, for the art change. Next page, two options for me : 1) she bursts into tears, until Kat arrives to pat on her back and give a hug, speechless or with a "He's such a jerk!" 2) she returns to class, poker face on, only to find out it's a riot in there. All the students have exploded in rage against their new teacher. The second scenario would be nice, but I doubt it will happen. I feel like Anthony's presence as a teacher is quite intense and disorienting. His emotionless entrance to the class does not leave the slighest hint of a crack one might use to lever out his authority (I used 'to lever out' like a German expression, I'm not sure it's actually applicable here). I wouldn't want to talk back to a teacher like him, but then again I'm quite submissive to authority myself. |
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Post by atteSmythe on Mar 18, 2015 14:07:12 GMT
If she recovers in time, the power move is to simply not return. She has a history of ignoring detention (HOLY CRAP how was that scene almost half the comic ago?!), her position as Forest medium doesn't appear subject to Court review. What's Tony going to do, disappoint her more? However, she didn't deal well with just a phone call. I don't know how this will play out. :/ |
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Post by mcbibble on Mar 18, 2015 14:21:20 GMT
Oh thank god it is a dream sequence. Really the page before was just so ridiculously over the top evil. Nothing made any sense. No, it's not a dream sequence, and the last two pages were not 'cartoonishly evil'. The frayed lines show how shaken Annie is by what's just happened, and how upset- it's not hit yet. As for cartoonish- now we the audience identify with Annie. We've known her for years, we care about her, understand her and know what hurts her. To us, it is clear how monumentally cruel what Anthony just did (and it should be clear to him as well, if he wasn't a goddamn asshole) but the actual action itself was fairly run of the mill. Think back to your schooling (unless things are very different in America.) I have seen many teachers behave in ways which were, on the face of it, far crueler than this. This is horrible for us because it is horrible for Annie- that's why it's good writing. We are fully in her shoes. |
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Post by joephlommin on Mar 18, 2015 14:21:45 GMT
They're not in high school yet, are they? The Court overs years 7 through 12, which is high school. Anthony, however, seems to be downright Vulcan in his attitudes. It is illogical to wish to create an emotional reaction from offspring and inhibit the learning of others to do so. |
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Post by darlos9d on Mar 18, 2015 14:25:25 GMT
The Court overs years 7 through 12, which is high school. Anthony, however, seems to be downright Vulcan in his attitudes. It is illogical to wish to create an emotional reaction from offspring and inhibit the learning of others to do so. To be fair, not all Vulcans are the same. Some are HUGE jerks! They just try to hide it behind a facade of "logic." ... sorry, that's a bit of a tangent. I feel strongly about Vulcans. Anyway Tony is a jerk. |
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Post by Rasselas on Mar 18, 2015 14:29:06 GMT
God I love this page. Everything I was gonna say about it has already been said, mostly. It's silly to think this is a dream, no, this is really happening. The way Tom uses the art style to characterize Annie's inner state is amazing. This page is awesome. Basically she crumbles. The last time she's seen her father was when she was just a little girl. Him showing up and exerting authority over her, would throw her back into that time and state. She keeps making excuses for him, after all, he is her father. That's what we all do, make excuses for our parents because they're important archetypal figures for us. If they're terrible, our inner world crumbles while trying to reconcile the archetype with the reality. Then she sees her reflection in the mirror, and is snapped back to reality. Her inner state is deteriorated, but she is not that little girl anymore. Hopefully she can see this in her reflection, and regain some of her composure and confidence. Tom is amazing in how he conveys inner turmoil in his art. The way the room goes concave, and that crack in the wall, dude that's poetic. Always reminds me of this song, I've probably linked it here before. And something is cracking, I don't know where. Ice on the sidewalk, brittle branches in the air.
One thing I keep wondering about, how did Tony just show up teaching a class, with no prior warning? I'm certain Anja and co would've tried to prepare Annie, to try and make the transition easier on her. Springing it on Annie like this is just double cruel. It also shows how Anthony works, as an independent agent acting on his own and unpredictable - we will find the same trait in Antimony. Also shows the neutral coldness of the Court itself, which employed him without bothering to inform his daughter or one-time friends. |
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Post by joephlommin on Mar 18, 2015 14:32:42 GMT
It is illogical to wish to create an emotional reaction from offspring and inhibit the learning of others to do so. To be fair, not all Vulcans are the same. Some are HUGE jerks! They just try to hide it behind a facade of "logic." ... sorry, that's a bit of a tangent. I feel strongly about Vulcans. Anyway Tony is a jerk. We've known he's a jerk for a long time. Now we just know he's a huge jerk. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 18, 2015 14:36:47 GMT
They're not in high school yet, are they? They are! The story started in High school, year 7 (ages 11-12) is the first year of UK high school, and at the end of their GSCEs in year 11 (ages 15-16) they go to sixthform for their AS levels, and stay there another year for their A levels. Yay school systems? Okay, I am not English and thought that High school is a the school where you can apply after finishing that obligatory part of your education. Different systems in different countries, it may be that there's no direct equivalent of High school where I am, so not obvious to me. |
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kralex
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Post by kralex on Mar 18, 2015 14:54:54 GMT
About Tony being a huge dick.
I've wondered about that for a while, but put yourself in his position. He knew Surma was part fire elemental. He knew she'd die as soon as she had a daughter. He tried to save her, and being a competent doctor and etherically gifted, maybe he almost did it, or at least he thought he almost could have - but in the end, all he could do is watch her die.
And now Annie. She will die, too, if she ever has a daughter... unless Tony finds a way to prevent that, and he'll be damned if he doesn't try anything and everything to save her. My bet is that he's spent all these years trying to figure out a way to banish the fire elemental, and tried to do so in the Divine chapter, almost killing Annie in the process. That failed; now he's taking a more direct approach. I can't say I expected him to show up now, but I was pretty sure that we hadn't seen the last of him and his mission.
I think he's more misguided zealot than a dick, single-mindedly set on freeing Annie of the thing that defines her. He's forgotten everything else over this mission, even showing his daughter any hint of affection. He won't let anything interfere with his plan to save her, even if it kills her. I think he's a tragic figure that comes off as an asshole.
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Post by mcbibble on Mar 18, 2015 15:04:31 GMT
One thing I keep wondering about, how did Tony just show up teaching a class, with no prior warning? I'm certain Anja and co would've tried to prepare Annie, to try and make the transition easier on her. Springing it on Annie like this is just double cruel. It also shows how Anthony works, as an independent agent acting on his own and unpredictable - we will find the same trait in Antimony. Also shows the neutral coldness of the Court itself, which employed him without bothering to inform his daughter or one-time friends. I'm assuming that Anja/Donnie et al. simply weren't told he was taking the post, and that upper management assumed that Tony would tell Antimony himself because what kind of bastard would do that to their own daughter? |
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Post by avurai on Mar 18, 2015 15:05:13 GMT
They are! The story started in High school, year 7 (ages 11-12) is the first year of UK high school, and at the end of their GSCEs in year 11 (ages 15-16) they go to sixthform for their AS levels, and stay there another year for their A levels. Yay school systems? Okay, I am not English and thought that High school is a the school where you can apply after finishing that obligatory part of your education. Different systems in different countries, it may be that there's no direct equivalent of High school where I am, so not obvious to me. We refer to that as "College" or "University". High School is a part of the American educational system that takes place from around the ages of 14-18. The UK has their own system that doesn't use the terms 'elementary school (ages 6-10)', 'middle school (ages 11-13)', or 'high school (ages 14-18)'. The UK system instead consists of ascending-numbered 'forms', similar to what America refers to as 'grades'. It's all very complicated to everybody not directly involved in any of them, especially for us Americans who still manage to be confused by the straightforward nature of UK educational structure simply because we've been trained to identify with an arbitrary naming system. I'd say the main difference is between 'Grades' and 'Years'. From what I can gather, where Americans have Preschool (ages 3-5), the UK counts their equivalent as Years. And the two numbered systems don't really match up well at all. |
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Post by avurai on Mar 18, 2015 15:06:37 GMT
About Tony being a huge dick. I've wondered about that for a while, but put yourself in his position. He knew Surma was part fire elemental. He knew she'd die as soon as she had a daughter. He tried to save her, and being a competent doctor and etherically gifted, maybe he almost did it, or at least he thought he almost could have - but in the end, all he could do is watch her die. And now Annie. She will die, too, if she ever has a daughter... unless Tony finds a way to prevent that, and he'll be damned if he doesn't try anything and everything to save her. My bet is that he's spent all these years trying to figure out a way to banish the fire elemental, and tried to do so in the Divine chapter, almost killing Annie in the process. That failed; now he's taking a more direct approach. I can't say I expected him to show up now, but I was pretty sure that we hadn't seen the last of him and his mission. I think he's more misguided zealot than a dick, single-mindedly set on freeing Annie of the thing that defines her. He's forgotten everything else over this mission, even showing his daughter any hint of affection. He won't let anything interfere with his plan to save her, even if it kills her. I think he's a tragic figure that comes off as an asshole. You just described a terrifying monster. |
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kralex
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Post by kralex on Mar 18, 2015 15:11:00 GMT
You just described a terrifying monster. Love makes people act in strange ways. |
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Post by Rasselas on Mar 18, 2015 15:11:11 GMT
Diego
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 18, 2015 15:12:04 GMT
Okay, I am not English and thought that High school is a the school where you can apply after finishing that obligatory part of your education. Different systems in different countries, it may be that there's no direct equivalent of High school where I am, so not obvious to me. We refer to that as "College" or "University". High School is a part of the American educational system that takes place from around the ages of 14-18. The UK has their own system that doesn't use the terms 'elementary school (ages 6-10)', 'middle school (ages 11-13)', or 'high school (ages 14-18)'. The UK system instead consists of ascending-numbered 'forms', similar to what America refers to as 'grades'. It's all very complicated to everybody not directly involved in any of them, especially for us Americans who still manage to be confused by the straightforward nature of UK educational structure simply because we've been trained to identify with an arbitrary naming system. I'd say the main difference is between 'Grades' and 'Years'. From what I can gather, where Americans have Preschool (ages 3-5), the UK counts their equivalent as Years. And the two numbered systems don't really match up well at all. The American one is more like what I would have thought, but I would have also thought that the high school age might start a bit later. I would also not have called any school to which people normally go before reaching adult age a college, let alone a university. Let's say, none of the universities I know is a one to which you apply before having finished a non-compulsory degree after your compulsory education. Unless they have a that kind of preparatory school in the same institution, but still, that is not technically the actual university where you're applying then, but to the preparatory education that you have to finish before you can enter the actual university. |
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lit
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Post by lit on Mar 18, 2015 15:27:06 GMT
Antimony is used to making excuses for her father and trying to justify his actions, so while at first I assumed she would be angry and want to rebel against him, the way I do, my second, sadder thought, is that in this page she is trying to justify the way he is treating her, trying to convince herself that she deserves this, trying to accept it.
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Post by csj on Mar 18, 2015 16:11:43 GMT
regarding dream sequence hypothesis; hmmm, maybe being makeup-free is Annie's equivalent of being skirtless(trope warning) |
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Post by avurai on Mar 18, 2015 16:15:00 GMT
We refer to that as "College" or "University". High School is a part of the American educational system that takes place from around the ages of 14-18. The UK has their own system that doesn't use the terms 'elementary school (ages 6-10)', 'middle school (ages 11-13)', or 'high school (ages 14-18)'. The UK system instead consists of ascending-numbered 'forms', similar to what America refers to as 'grades'. It's all very complicated to everybody not directly involved in any of them, especially for us Americans who still manage to be confused by the straightforward nature of UK educational structure simply because we've been trained to identify with an arbitrary naming system. I'd say the main difference is between 'Grades' and 'Years'. From what I can gather, where Americans have Preschool (ages 3-5), the UK counts their equivalent as Years. And the two numbered systems don't really match up well at all. The American one is more like what I would have thought, but I would have also thought that the high school age might start a bit later. I would also not have called any school to which people normally go before reaching adult age a college, let alone a university. Let's say, none of the universities I know is a one to which you apply before having finished a non-compulsory degree after your compulsory education. Unless they have a that kind of preparatory school in the same institution, but still, that is not technically the actual university where you're applying then, but to the preparatory education that you have to finish before you can enter the actual university. Nah, High School is part of the 'mandatory' schooling. College and University are compulsory and generally last at a minimum between the ages of 18-21, 18 being US adulthood. |
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kralex
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Post by kralex on Mar 18, 2015 16:16:11 GMT
regarding dream sequence hypothesis; hmmm, maybe being makeup-free if Annie's equivalent of being skirtless(trope warning) Considering that the first thing Tony did was make Annie remove the make-up, I wonder what the significance of the make-up really is. Where does she get it? A special concoction taught to her by her mother by any chance, something to do with her fire elemental powers? Edit: I see this was previously discussed here. |
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Post by avurai on Mar 18, 2015 16:18:04 GMT
regarding dream sequence hypothesis; hmmm, maybe being makeup-free if Annie's equivalent of being skirtless(trope warning) The difference between the words 'pantsless' and 'skirtless' is superficial but deceptively powerful. I was quite nervous about clicking the link in all honesty. |
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 18, 2015 16:21:04 GMT
It's unlikely, but I am amused by the thought of Flambannie sauntering back to class and informing Sir that she's removed her makeup. All of it. Good point. The only reason why not is that Annie didn't lash out at him... yet. But Mort was her friend already before and after that little incident, and she did have to deal with both Renard and James. I don't know whether trying to out-alien Anthony is a good idea... but she may just think "you know what? He likes to deal with facts, so here's some highly demonstrable fact of life, now face it." Never really found out what exactly caused Annie to collapse there. I am aware of three versions so far: A) Anthony who convinced 1 Enigmarons to build on their moonbase on the Moon magical 2 bonelaser, what else? B) When in the immediately preceeding chapter Annie handled the payload and the rocket itself after knowing to whom the delivery is addressed, how could she possibly not be sorely tempted to do something incredibly obvious for once? C) After the message and chat with Donny she fretted about it way too much. Which can be kind of unhealthy even for completely mundane humans, let alone someone who have impulsive nature, problems with self-control and have abilities for transformation and out-of-body presence, but is not actually deft with the latter (yet). ( 1) he was, and evidently still is, barely able to communicate with any living being, but considering this requires actually paying attention to the story. ( 2) he "never had patience" for All That Etheric Junk, but considering this also requires actually paying attention to the story. However, this "stay in silence" puts some shade on his good will. But still, he must have his reasons. His reason for this may be simply "otherwise a student would miss some of the lecture, and We Can't Have That", just like all the reason he needed on the previous page was "otherwise the teacher would be unable to concentrate on the lesson, and We Can't Have That". I feel like Anthony's presence as a teacher is quite intense and disorienting. What intense presence? He's disorienting, obviously, but "oh, look, a human bedsheet ghost" doesn't automatically make everyone's blood curl. His emotionless entrance to the class does not leave the slighest hint of a crack one might use to lever out his authority "Cracks" are for bullied children who dream to become a bully for two minutes and pull each other's hair when they think no one looks. The situation at hand begs for old good malicious compliance. To which Anthony probably have no resistance at all, though they don't know it yet. |
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kralex
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Post by kralex on Mar 18, 2015 16:48:35 GMT
B) When in the immediately preceeding chapter Annie handled the payload and the rocket itself after knowing to whom the delivery is addressed, how could she possibly not be sorely tempted to do something incredibly obvious for once? I think it's a given that she sneaked in the blinker in the payload. I suspect that her doing that was precisely Tony's plan, and that he used the blinker as a vehicle somehow to begin the bone laser surgery. After all, why on earth would he ask for common medical supplies delivered by satellite if he's working at a hospital? (Edit:) The point of the phone call was to get Annie's blinker on that satellite, to act as some kind of relay. |
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esc7
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Post by esc7 on Mar 18, 2015 16:53:45 GMT
I'm still sticking with this whole thing being a dream sequence.
We start in media res with no explanation.
If you think about it, it's the PERFECT nightmare for Annie to have. Her father has returned! And he's teaching her class! And he's AWFUL AND MEAN AND EVERYONE IS WATCHING. It combines her developing anger of her father and everyones nightmares about school.
Also Tony being a teacher, with no warning, doesn't make sense. The only way it could of happened without the Dolan's knowing is Tony and the upper Court conspiring to place him in secretly. I can kinda see the Court doing something that evil, but I don't see any value in it. Tony on the other hand doesn't seem like the person who would go out of his way to surprise the class or his daughter. He'd let the chips fall because he doesn't care about them.
And in addition to not hearing a real peep out of the other kids, the art shift, to me, heavily indicates a dream state when you go do something that isn't clearly remembered nor defined.
You can put me down as being all in on this being a dream. I'll beg for forgiveness if I'm wrong.
What's more interesting to me is the implications: Maybe she got news that her father is going to return to the court?
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Post by darlos9d on Mar 18, 2015 17:15:40 GMT
Sigh, this is sort of the unfortunate nature of online comics. If this is a dream sequence, and the whole chapter came out at once (like an issue of a physical comic) then we would turn ahead in short order, and find out that its a dream within a few pages probably. We'd then be like "oh, okay."
However, in the webcomic format, we get one page every two or three days, and we end up dwelling on those individual pages for a rather considerable amount of time before the next one comes out. So it makes whats going on in any given page feel so much more important and meaningful. From that vantage point, this being a dream might feel like a cop-out, since we've had three pages that seem to be dwelling on the reality of Anthony just showing up.
Andrew Hussie has commented on the "serial vs archival reading" issue on more than one occasion, as he's identified reactions in his fanbase being caused by them dwelling on the contents of a update which shouldn't really be dwelt upon. He writes for the archival reader. That is, the reader who's gonna read that part, and then IMMEDIATELY move to the next part, with no interruption. What seems like a series of cliffhangers to the serial reader really shouldn't, as they aren't intended that way. Tom, however, I feel actually writes as a serial writer. That is, he expects the reader to read a page, and dwell on it for a while and take it seriously. I've notice that the composition of a lot of his individual pages seem to involve a clear beginning, middle, and end, as opposed to simply feeling like one part of the whole chapter. Each page is its own story in a sense, even if that story is as simple as "girl stumbles to the bathroom and looks at herself in a mirror." In a sense, his pages ARE a series of cliffhangers, and very intentionally so.
And following a cliffhanger up with "it was just a dream!" is ALWAYS lame. I feel like if this was a dream, the pages would be presented differently, and we'd likely already have confirmation of it.
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 18, 2015 17:57:42 GMT
The American one is more like what I would have thought, but I would have also thought that the high school age might start a bit later. I would also not have called any school to which people normally go before reaching adult age a college, let alone a university. Let's say, none of the universities I know is a one to which you apply before having finished a non-compulsory degree after your compulsory education. Unless they have a that kind of preparatory school in the same institution, but still, that is not technically the actual university where you're applying then, but to the preparatory education that you have to finish before you can enter the actual university. Nah, High School is part of the 'mandatory' schooling. College and University are compulsory and generally last at a minimum between the ages of 18-21, 18 being US adulthood. Oh, wait, I'm starting to get this. In UK, secondary education is compulsory and is counted to start at age 11? Let's clarify the terms. When I talk about University, I refer to the tertiary education, say a MA, which usually takes longer than to the age of 21, although tends to start before it. I have understood by "high school" the secondary education in US and UK, similar to the Continental secondary education level, lyceum. This often takes place between ages 15 and 18 and you continue from this to University or College, so when I talk about High school, I have only referred to this, starting from or after 9th grade (9th grade being the ages 14-15), which in Europe is usually not counted in the High school but is the last year of compulsory primary education. So, when saying that "they're not in the high school" I had no idea that in UK, earlier stages are counted in 'High school', and only meant that they're not 16 yet, but are they? What age are they again? We just discussed that when Jack grew that ridiculous beard, but I already forgot the results. *note, however, that compulsory and mandatory are basically synonymous and university degrees certainly are not compulsory in US. |
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Post by warrl on Mar 18, 2015 18:01:37 GMT
One thing I keep wondering about, how did Tony just show up teaching a class, with no prior warning? I'm certain Anja and co would've tried to prepare Annie, to try and make the transition easier on her. Springing it on Annie like this is just double cruel. It also shows how Anthony works, as an independent agent acting on his own and unpredictable - we will find the same trait in Antimony. Also shows the neutral coldness of the Court itself, which employed him without bothering to inform his daughter or one-time friends. Everyone assumed he would do the obviously intelligent thing: contact his old friends, and most particularly his daughter, to let them know he was coming and to salve any remaining emotional wounds. Anja and Donald found out he's there at a faculty/staff meeting about half an hour ago. And since then they've been busy getting ready for THEIR first classes. It's all very complicated to everybody not directly involved in any of them, especially for us Americans who still manage to be confused by the straightforward nature of UK educational structure simply because we've been trained to identify with an arbitrary naming system. An arbitrary *and inconsistent* naming system. US system, you can rely on grades 1-3 (typical ages 6-8) being in elementary school and grades 10-12 (ages 16-18) being in (sometimes "senior") high school. Everything before and between is variable. Elementary school is usually kindergarten (age 5) through grade 6. However it may include pre-kindergarten, or may not include kindergarten. (Those may be in a "preschool", or not exist.) At the other end, it may not include grade 6, and rarely will not include grade 5 or even 4. There are schools that run from grade 4 or 5 through grade 6, but the name for such schools is not even vaguely standardized yet. Middle school is usually grade 6 through 8. It occasionally includes grade 9. Rarely, grade 5 and even 4. Junior high school is usually grades 7-9. Sometimes it doesn't include 9. (Senior) high school is grades 9-12 about half the time, 10-12 the other half. Some smaller school systems don't have separate facilities for junior high versus senior high, and may or may not maintain the distinction in other ways (the algebra class I took in 7th grade didn't count toward graduation requirements, but it did count for the guy in the desk in front of mine: he was in 10th grade). "Primary" school, where that term is still used, includes elementary school from wherever it begins through the end of whatever school includes grade 6. "Secondary" school is after primary school up through grade 12. I think that to convert the US system to the English system, ignore the US school categories and look at the grade number. Add a constant (which I've not solidly pinned down). Except that the top grade/form of the British system is semi-optional (basically being college-prep, and the Brits aren't dumb enough to think that every kid should go to college) and typically lasts two years. |
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Post by Daedalus on Mar 18, 2015 18:23:02 GMT
Do I smell horribly drawn party hat edits in the near future? I believe this would be time for a "panic hat". I don't know what one would look like, but I imagine its color is a bruisy black and blue.  As opposed to the Shame Hat. |
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