How to report offensive art on Deviantart?

[Marnath]

So yeah, I was looking through the fan-art of Gunnerkrigg Court over on deviantart, and stumbled across a picture of Anja and Antimony that is super inappropriate. I filed a report and got back a response of "We need more information before we'll do anything." Apparently a link to the comic and telling them that the girl pictured is at most 14 is insufficient information.

So, maybe one of you guys knows more about the methods of the DevArt mods that you could file a report they'll actually act on? I really hesitate to link a thing like this, but you'll need to visit the page to report it.


ferchosky.deviantart.com/art/Discomfort-441123575

[GK Sierra]

Drawn pictures of said content is not illegal, and thus does not violate Section 7, subsection F of the DeviantArt submission guidelines.

I guess if enough people reported it they might remove it, but this is not actually breaking any rules, although admittedly it is crudely drawn and in poor taste. Unfortunately, one of the downsides of a free society is putting up with those kind of things.

[kalechibki]

I think you are sadly running into a difference in laws across the pond. In the UK, it's illegal to have website content of children under 16 having any sort of sexual act. However, that is not the case in the US. I remember this because one of my favorite websites for Harry Potter Fanfic a few years ago had to purge some of the content of a few of their authors because of the content and the fact that the website was hosted in the UK. One of those authors then went ahead and set up his own website stateside and re-posted his work... objectionable that it may have been.

[Marnath]

Huh. I thought it was illegal in the U.S. as well. Still though, their report function has a specific category for "Sexualized Minor" and they didn't rule against any action, just labeled it as "needs more information." I just can't personally understand what more information they could possibly need to fit into that category aside from being explicitly shown the source material where the characters are from. O.o

[QuotePilgrim]

Aug 1, 2014 13:20:23 GMT GK Sierra said:

Drawn pictures of said content is not illegal, and thus does not violate Section 7, subsection F of the DeviantArt submission guidelines.

I guess if enough people reported it they might remove it, but this is not actually breaking any rules, although admittedly it is crudely drawn and in poor taste. Unfortunately, one of the downsides of a free society is putting up with those kind of things.

I think it's actually one of the upsides of a free society. I mean, it is completely harmless content, apart from being offensive to some people. The thing is that pretty much everything is offensive to someone, so if we were to forbid offensive content, we would be censoring almost everything. Censorship is never a good thing.

I mean, I really dislike that drawing for a bunch of different reasons, but I am all for it. I think the fact that this guy is free to put this on the Internet is a wonderful thing. I do not feel offended by this particular drawing, but there are things out there that offend me, and I am really glad that people are able to publish such things.

SPOILER: Click to show

Anyway, don't tell this guy about... you know, that thing that ends in 34.

[Marnath]

Aug 1, 2014 14:22:23 GMT QuotePilgrim said:

Aug 1, 2014 13:20:23 GMT GK Sierra said:

Drawn pictures of said content is not illegal, and thus does not violate Section 7, subsection F of the DeviantArt submission guidelines.

I guess if enough people reported it they might remove it, but this is not actually breaking any rules, although admittedly it is crudely drawn and in poor taste. Unfortunately, one of the downsides of a free society is putting up with those kind of things.

I think it's actually one of the upsides of a free society. I mean, it is completely harmless content, apart from being offensive to some people. The thing is that pretty much everything is offensive to someone, so if we were to forbid offensive content, we would be censoring almost everything. Censorship is never a good thing.

I mean, I really dislike that drawing for a bunch of different reasons, but I am all for it. I think the fact that this guy is free to put this on the Internet is a wonderful thing. I do not feel offended by this particular drawing, but there are things out there that offend me, and I am really glad that people are able to publish such things.

SPOILER: Click to show

Anyway, don't tell this guy about... you know, that thing that ends in 34.

"This guy" being me? I know all about that, there's a great deal of that tasteful and otherwise. I normally just let it pass, with this though I was under the impression that it passes beyond offensive into the actually illegal. My understanding is that anything involving minors is flat-out banned under their terms and conditions, legal or not.

[QuotePilgrim]

That comment was supposed to be a joke. Sort of.

But yeah, apparently this is neither illegal or against deviantArt rules. Their definition of "sexual content" is very specific. It must be (very) explicit, not just implied. And that kind of content there is against the rules regardless of the age of the characters.

I have to admit, though, that it's been a long time since last time I've read dA's rules.

EDIT: here, I have found it: help.deviantart.com/565/

So this particular picture you have linked is clearly not against the rules.

[GK Sierra]

Aug 1, 2014 14:22:23 GMT QuotePilgrim said:

Aug 1, 2014 13:20:23 GMT GK Sierra said:

Drawn pictures of said content is not illegal, and thus does not violate Section 7, subsection F of the DeviantArt submission guidelines.

I guess if enough people reported it they might remove it, but this is not actually breaking any rules, although admittedly it is crudely drawn and in poor taste. Unfortunately, one of the downsides of a free society is putting up with those kind of things.

I think it's actually one of the upsides of a free society.

I agree with you- I was saying it was unfortunate he was offended by it, because that's never a pleasant emotion. Unfortunately, though, the price we pay for being connected with everyone is hearing from some weirdos now and again and seeing things that shock/offend/enrage us.

The distance between "This art is squicky, outlaw it" and "Hello I am an Austrian Corporal and this art is critical of the state, outlaw it" is astonishingly short.

It is always wiser, when aiming to preserve freedom of artistic expression for the long term, to cast the net wider than your comfort zone.

[Daedalus]

Aug 1, 2014 12:59:57 GMT Marnath said:

So yeah, I was looking through the fan-art of Gunnerkrigg Court over on deviantart, and stumbled across a picture of Anja and Antimony that is super inappropriate. I filed a report and got back a response of "We need more information before we'll do anything." Apparently a link to the comic and telling them that the girl pictured is at most 14 is insufficient information.

So, maybe one of you guys knows more about the methods of the DevArt mods that you could file a report they'll actually act on? I really hesitate to link a thing like this, but you'll need to visit the page to report it.


ferchosky.deviantart.com/art/Discomfort-441123575

I hate whoever decided to post this image on DA - I find it freaky, tasteless, and rather disturbing. If this were more explicit (and irl), it would fall under child pornography and be illegal. It would probably fall under statutory rape as well.

As fanart (in the US at least), however, the previous posters are correct. Regretfully, it is indeed legal*. Not only does it not violate the law, but it also does not violate the DeviantArt rules given above. And, furthermore, it doesn't even violate Tom's rules for the acceptability of fanart, since it appears not to have been made on comission.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's much that can be done about it.

SPOILER: Click to show

*Of course I understand why freedom of speech/expression is necessary, and it's great on larger scales. No prob. However, this particular image (or the idea of making pseudo-pornographic images of 14-year-olds at all) is still disgusting and I wish that it had violated one of those rules so that it could be removed.

[QuotePilgrim]

Now... I sorta disagree with you here. Okay, sure, I won't disagree with you that images like that are disgusting. However, here's the thing: some dude makes an image like that, then some other dude masturbates to it, and it ends here. Did anyone get hurt in any way? I don't think so.

Now before you say images like these might incentive someone, let me ask: do you think a violent video game can make people more violent? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Just because a person feels some satisfaction in killing a bunch of people in a video game, it won't make them any more likely to kill someone in real life. In the same way, images like this one don't make anyone any more likely to do something to a real child.

Whether you like it or not, these images are harmless.

And...

Jun 27, 2012 12:59:10 GMT Tom Siddell said:

I'll say it again:

Fan art is great! Everyone should draw fan art! I wish there was more fan art of my comic all the time! Draw it for yourself, draw it for your friends, draw it for your portfolio to show your skills, draw requests, draw fan characters, I really do not mind!
I don't even care if people absolutely have to masturbate to pictures of my 13/14 year old characters, I really don't. I won't allow it on my forum, and I won't congratulate you for emailing it to me, nor will I draw it myself when I do open up commissions again, but I really don't care what people draw.

...Tom seems to agree with me on this matter.

[fanofts]

Aug 1, 2014 15:10:10 GMT QuotePilgrim said:

That comment was supposed to be a joke. Sort of.

But yeah, apparently this is neither illegal or against deviantArt rules. Their definition of "sexual content" is very specific. It must be (very) explicit, not just implied. And that kind of content there is against the rules regardless of the age of the characters.

I have to admit, though, that it's been a long time since last time I've read dA's rules.

EDIT: here, I have found it: help.deviantart.com/565/

So this particular picture you have linked is clearly not against the rules.

A relevant deviantart policy would be help.deviantart.com/248/:
Are there restrictions on art using children or teenagers (fictional or otherwise)?
Here is the full text (note the penultimate paragraph) (EDITED for format):

Works depicting the likeness of real children or fan art which concerns characters presented as being under the age of eighteen (18) in their original context are subject to several restrictions which are intended to disallow the sexual portrayal of children in the work.

Art works depicting the likenesses of real children, whether painting, sketch, or otherwise, may not depict any child over the age of two who is explicitly nude, nor can they be depicted in any sexually provocative theme or manner of dress.

Fan art of fictional characters that are considered underage or children in their original context may not be depicted with exaggerated breasts, buttocks, or genital areas nor may they be depicted in any erotic manner or in any sexually provocative scene or manner of dress.

Characters which have been portrayed as a range of ages in their original media will be classified as underage or not based upon their average age over the series. Attempts to "age" the characters in order to depict them in a manner which would otherwise be prohibited will not be granted any exception.

Artworks using completely original fictional characters which appear to be minors or children shown nude or placed into sexual situations will be judged by the deviantART staff based on the appearance, style and anatomy of the character and all other available information in order to determine whether or not the work will be acceptable.

Additionally works which depict any romantic or sexual relationship between a minor and an adult can be subject to removal without notice.

Please note that the above restrictions apply to active and stored deviantART submissions, sta.sh submissions, PCP files, etc.

[freeman]

Well, Tom has his copyright, so in principle he alone could decide what kind of "fan art" is appropriate and send take down requests for the rest if he bothered, or if as being the creator his denial of sexualising these sweet fictional teens was deeper than that of the most, or if he decided that having something too explicit out there hosted by third parties would be bad for his business, or even out of plain spite in lieu of "I make all the hard work of world building, original story and characters, and you take the fast easy track of butchering it up into bad porn", OR EVEN EVEN: "that's not how the characters would ever interact, have they read the archive at all?!"

These are all valid reasons, and once uttered by the creator (not the owner of the work, mind you), should be honored with certain discreetness when distributing material of that nature. After all, if tree falls in the fores and no one hears it, does it still make sound?

Any way, good job of actually discussing about this so civilly, I know several other places which would have went down in flames from the second post on. If the current subject is uneasy, this the rustle that make the evil henchmen turn around together with that special tink that only smoke grenades make before they go off.

[Rasselas]

I reported that deviation with detailed information and references about the character's age.

I'm not one for censorship, I don't even get offended easily. I suppose I reported it as a matter of personal taste and ethical judgment.

As for the Deviantart rules, I was just coming to post what fanofts did.

This line is especially damning: "Additionally works which depict any romantic or sexual relationship between a minor and an adult can be subject to removal without notice."

So it doesn't even have to be very openly sexual, it's enough for it to be romantic to be removed.

If I'd seen that before I made my report, I'd have included that Anja is a teacher, therefore an adult. Hopefully that's easy enough to infer.

[fwip]

I thought that NSFW/NSFC art was filtered by default. When I upload a work, it requires me to check whether it's SFW. I don't remember the exact wording, but if it's incorrectly marked, then that's another count we can get them on.

[Rasselas]

I believe it is marked as NSFW.

[QuotePilgrim]

Yes it is.

Oh, and thank you fanofts for showing that it is in fact against deviantArt rules. We can all happily report it now.

Though I kinda doubt getting it off dA will actually change anything.

SPOILER: Click to show

The guy who made this picture is pretty unknown. If it were made by a popular dA user, I am pretty sure removing it would actually only trigger a Streisand effect.

[TBeholder]

Aug 1, 2014 13:20:23 GMT GK Sierra said:

Unfortunately, one of the downsides of a free society is putting up with those kind of things.

Unfortunately, one of the downsides of internet is putting up with places being trolled over with complete guano. Hint: almost everyone present was blissfully unaware of this trash until Marnath promoted it here.

[QuotePilgrim]

Haha, I hadn't even thought of that. It seems the Streisand effect was already triggered.

[Daedalus]

Actually what disturbs me most about that art is the comment left by the (ahem) artist.

[legion]

I think you guys are severely over-reacting.

It's a drawing of a fictional character. That does not even feature explicit nudity. And is hidden under a mature-content filter.

You are not accomplishing anything by reporting this picture. You are not bravely fighting pedophile networks by having DA remove this picture. You're just persecuting a lone artist for their lack of strict conformity to good moral standards.

I swear, even the most radical libertarians turn into obscenity-trial-happy puritans as soon as the word "underage" is mentionned in any context.

[QuotePilgrim]

I totally agree with you, legion. I did not bother to report it because of precisely what you just said.

It is against deviantArt rules, though. If you are the kind of person who reports everything you come across that's against the rules, it makes sense to report this one.

[philman]

I haven't seen the picture, don't especially want to given the description, but I always assumed that drawn images of underage sexual stuff, or fictionalised writing, was legal in he UK, as it is not harming anyone, but obviously real photos were very illegal. I know that in Germany drawn images of underage sexual stuff is banned, but didn't think it was true in UK.

I personally wouldn't get offended by this, there is indeed much worse out there (I stumbled across a very graphic set of comics featuring parley and smitty when searching for fan art once) of both this and other comics. drawn images don't hurt anybody, save the outrage for the real abuse of children that actually damages lives.

[snipertom]

Seems to have been taken down

[Daedalus]

Aug 2, 2014 10:50:56 GMT philman said:

I haven't seen the picture, don't especially want to given the description, but I always assumed that drawn images of underage sexual stuff, or fictionalised writing, was legal in he UK, as it is not harming anyone, but obviously real photos were very illegal. I know that in Germany drawn images of underage sexual stuff is banned, but didn't think it was true in UK.

I personally wouldn't get offended by this, there is indeed much worse out there (I stumbled across a very graphic set of comics featuring parley and smitty when searching for fan art once) of both this and other comics. drawn images don't hurt anybody, save the outrage for the real abuse of children that actually damages lives.

I saw Rule 34 of Annie and Renard a while ago. Now *that* was freaky.

But frankly, I am glad it was removed. (My personal opinion.)

[The Anarch]

Now it can go live on the actual Rule 34 site with the rest of the horribly offensive GKC fan art, where it belongs!

[imaginaryfriend]

Aug 6, 2014 7:15:26 GMT Daedalus said:

Aug 2, 2014 10:50:56 GMT philman said:

I haven't seen the picture, don't especially want to given the description, but I always assumed that drawn images of underage sexual stuff, or fictionalised writing, was legal in he UK, as it is not harming anyone, but obviously real photos were very illegal. I know that in Germany drawn images of underage sexual stuff is banned, but didn't think it was true in UK.

I personally wouldn't get offended by this, there is indeed much worse out there (I stumbled across a very graphic set of comics featuring parley and smitty when searching for fan art once) of both this and other comics. drawn images don't hurt anybody, save the outrage for the real abuse of children that actually damages lives.

I saw Rule 34 of Annie and Renard a while ago. Now *that* was freaky.

But frankly, I am glad it was removed. (My personal opinion.)

When I was still loitering in college one of the graduating senior classes in a major requirement was getting shanghai'd to do some free research work for the department. At the meeting where the grim announcement was made (in summary, either sacrifice your evenings and weekends working for free for the skool starting tomorrow for the next two months or postpone your graduation a full year, haha sucks to be you) one of the TAs allegedly doodled a pic of the dean who decided to save the dept. a few grand by doing this to the students splashing helplessly in a marshy pond while suffering an amorous assault from a trio of crocodiles. Said image was supposedly shredded immediately after being passed around but supposedly eased the injury and made the victims of the dean's policy feel a little better. For a few minutes.

[Rasselas]

This is the way I view it.

Anja is a character representing a grown-up person. This has many implications that unfold as I imagine how she might think, feel and react. An adult person shown with the sensibilities expected of one, has a certain breadth of experiences and maturity. When I think of Anja, my mind presumes these things in some subconscious way. The same goes for a character who is younger, there is a degree of innocence and lack of experience or maturity. It is jarring to see them in a context that completely invalidates these presumptions, especially when it places the characters in a cheaply sexual context. Now, you might say it doesn't matter, that these are just doodles and who cares what someone does with them. Well, I prefer to perceive creative works with depth, inferred or observed. That's the kind of person I choose to be, someone who sees magic and a myriad of strange facets even in two-dimensional drawings.

As to why I reacted, it's basically to offset the bystander effect. "Not my problem, someone else will deal with it, and anyway it's probably not even such a big deal." I was subjected to it, and vowed to never be that kind of person. (A guy attacked me from behind, with a knife to my throat. It was in the middle of a full classroom, and nobody seemed to even notice. I fought him off and showed my bleeding finger to my classmates, and their response was "he was probably just kidding around.") So when I feel compelled to act, I do it. I don't care that the drawing might show up on a "rule 34" site, because I will never visit that site. If I search Deviantart for Gunnerkrigg fanart, I don't want to encounter porny versions of it. Basically, it's a place I might stumble upon it, and if I do, I will react.

Sexuality has a definite place in art, with so many facets and aspects to explore. And a multitude of ways to approach it, without resorting to two-dimensional cheapness just for the sake of a thrill. If you're going to approach human sexuality that way, you might as well turn on the Nature channel and watch animals do it.

If you choose to be the kind of person who el-oh-els and too-long-didn't-reads, I don't care. I choose not to be one.

[Xan]

Answering the base question, apparently in Russia the procedure is:

1) Report offensive art (12 images in total) to authorities.
2) DeviantART gets globally blocked across Russia.
3) ? ? ?
4) Profit!

[legion]

Well congratulations to everyone in that thread who perpetuated the tradition of censoring art on the ground of obscenity (nevermind that this picture contained no explicit or partially-obscured sexuality, nor any explicit nudity), all through the power of anomnymous slander! Puritans, victorians, the makers of the Hays Code and fascists everywhere are proud of you!

If you want, I have the adresses of a few pedophiles, so you can gather at their houses and stone them.

[GK Sierra]

Aug 6, 2014 14:16:41 GMT legion said:

If you want, I have the adresses of a few pedophiles, so you can gather at their houses and stone them.

No need mate. In my state they are required to file their current home address on an interactive map.