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Post by keef on Jul 12, 2014 21:41:18 GMT
I wonder if transformed Forest animals lose their memory, but experience déjà-vu when they happen upon something singularly important from their former lives, without being able to actually remember. Why? As far as we know they just keep there memories. Seconded, you don't have to like someone's ideas or style of writing, or agree with anything, but please show some restraint. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 22:06:41 GMT
Somehow I managed to forget about that. I might salvage the idea by reapplying it:
Perhaps particles in the Ether interact with the particles of matter by means of recollection - for example, the Ether that accompanies drops of rain would consist of memories of rain. Thus, when you are hit with rain, you are also hit with the monsoons of ages past, with a warm drizzle in Japan, with the thick strokes of rain in a painting by Monet, and such things, but separate from the original owners' consciousness, and thus their private associations.
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 12, 2014 23:21:15 GMT
Oh noes, Sideways Coyote Mask! You awakened the sleeping hive of the Otherkin. Prepare for the unspeakable* things being done. (*) at least on human languages. It was the opposite. Alistair was a human boy who went to become a bird to live in the Forest. He went through the test to the opposite way. Actually, he didn't. His parents did ( 251) and they invited him along for the ride ( 252). Aye. So there's "the test" and there's... well... whatever they do to start this transformation. |
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Post by eyemyself on Jul 12, 2014 23:27:23 GMT
Actually, I chose my words very carefully to say exactly what I meant. All you did was remove a technical term I was using to clarify the point I was trying to make. I don't know if you think you are being clever, if you are acting out some ideology, or if you are just trolling but whatever it is it's getting old. |
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Post by Intelligence on Jul 12, 2014 23:38:51 GMT
Actually, I chose my words very carefully to say exactly what I meant. All you did was remove a technical term I was using to clarify the point I was trying to make. I don't know if you think you are being clever, if you are acting out some ideology, or if you are just trolling but whatever it is it's getting old. Except it doesn't clarify, it confuses.
Edit: I looked up the term, and from what I can gather, it is clearly a slur.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 1:16:25 GMT
Actually, I chose my words very carefully to say exactly what I meant. All you did was remove a technical term I was using to clarify the point I was trying to make. I don't know if you think you are being clever, if you are acting out some ideology, or if you are just trolling but whatever it is it's getting old. Except it doesn't clarify, it confuses.
Edit: I looked up the term, and from what I can gather, it is clearly a slur.
"Cis-gendered boy" means that Aly was born a biological boy and the events of his life have led him to define himself as a boy. It's not a slur, though like any term used to categorize people's identities, it can be used as one. Not that I'd recommend it. Oh noes, Sideways Coyote Mask! You awakened the sleeping hive of the Otherkin. Prepare for the unspeakable* things being done. (*) at least on human languages. Transsexuality is not the same thing as the sometimes bewildering ideas to appear on the Internet. As an example, the retired and formerly leading pole vaulter in Germany, Balian Buschbaum, is transsexual. The term "cis-gendered" was originally coined in 1991 as an antonym to "transgendered"; I find it sensible that way. But that wasn't my point. Personally, I'm just annoyed by Intelligence because I find he displays neither much knowledge nor respect nor humour. "Fixed" is just a one-word "I'm right you're wrong" that doesn't invite discussion. I still respect him enough that I won't report him for including a Forbidden Word ("Kat") in his post, but not enough to neglect pointing it out. EDIT: In the light of very recent, if not at all surprising events, I will mention that "trying to get around mentioning these character names" also violates your special rule. Intelligence, I think you got no fight in you. Make sure to edit your post again before the Keystone Kops come scampering around the corner. |
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Post by lit on Jul 13, 2014 3:54:35 GMT
"Cis" is not a slur. As Korba said, it's simply a useful word to designate that a person still identifies with the gender they were assigned at birth; in other words, to specify that they're not trans. Sometimes it can be useful to make this distinction.
There's little indication either way, but I like to think Aly is trans. It may not be very likely, but it makes sense to me. Aly being dissatisfied with his assigned gender might figure into why he was willing to leave behind humanity and become a bird on the mere whim of his parents - a way to leave behind a body that maybe didn't suit him, or escape to a society where gender was perhaps less of a meaningful thing.
But like, yeah. Just speculating. It's not relevant anyway, since Aly and his parents went in the other direction.
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Post by eyemyself on Jul 13, 2014 4:40:02 GMT
Actually, I chose my words very carefully to say exactly what I meant. All you did was remove a technical term I was using to clarify the point I was trying to make. I don't know if you think you are being clever, if you are acting out some ideology, or if you are just trolling but whatever it is it's getting old. Except it doesn't clarify, it confuses.
Edit: I looked up the term, and from what I can gather, it is clearly a slur.
So you decided to edit a quote by deleting a word you did not know the meaning of without looking it up... and then you looked it up god knows where to find a definition you don't cite and conclude that it is a slur? Indeed. I've never heard cis-* used as a slur and I've been active in communities where it's use to indicate "person identifies as the gender they were at birth" for many years. When I am working within the LGBT community and the subject of gender comes up I've often used it as an identifier myself. (i.e. "Hello my name is Eyemyself, I am a cis-gendered female who uses female pronouns.") I believe it's semantic origin comes from a perceived need to draw attention to the fact that out of respect for the trans community we should not always assume that being born the same gender one currently presents as and/or identifies as is the default. There's little indication either way, but I like to think Aly is trans. It may not be very likely, but it makes sense to me. Aly being dissatisfied with his assigned gender might figure into why he was willing to leave behind humanity and become a bird on the mere whim of his parents - a way to leave behind a body that maybe didn't suit him, or escape to a society where gender was perhaps less of a meaningful thing. But like, yeah. Just speculating. It's not relevant anyway, since Aly and his parents went in the other direction. I like your theory! I think it's an interesting take on why Aly may have been so blase about the who becoming a bird thing. There really isn't much indication in the comic as to whether or not Aly was born male or chose to identify as male or perhaps was born male and didn't really feel male but presented that way anyway because that was what was expected so unless he reappears at some point his past is open to speculation. (one of the reasons my wording was "presumably." We just have no way of knowing without further information.) But that wasn't my point. Personally, I'm just annoyed by Intelligence because I find he displays neither much knowledge nor respect nor humour. "Fixed" is just a one-word "I'm right you're wrong" that doesn't invite discussion. I still respect him enough that I won't report him for including a Forbidden Word ("Kat") in his post, but not enough to neglect pointing it out. EDIT: In the light of very recent, if not at all surprising events, I will mention that "trying to get around mentioning these character names" also violates your special rule. Intelligence, I think you got no fight in you. Make sure to edit your post again before the Keystone Kops come scampering around the corner. Ha! I'd forgotten about his special rule and the forbidden words until you mentioned it. Pity for him his use of one of the no-nos is recorded in your post quoting him. Though given how easy we know it is to modify other people's words when quoting them as with the case in point ... |
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Post by forestflight on Jul 13, 2014 5:53:25 GMT
I love the way he drew the parallel to Annie and Kat in the last panel. It gives a strange, different, somehow foreign emotional sense to the story here. Very striking.  (copied from previous thread where I had posted this by accident, sorry...) |
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 13, 2014 5:58:11 GMT
And furries, in turn, have all-important differences occasionally raising to holywars between "1/4 cat", "1/2 cat" and "3/4 cat" - or so it seems. Indubitably, everyone is obligated to care. Now, the real question. I'm a Beholder with the soul of a Tribble. Does excessive fuzziness of Tribbles give me right to claim Fursecution despite unfurriness of Beholders' chitinous carapace? And, more importantly, do you really want to discuss this matter here? The term "cis-gendered" was originally coined in 1991 as an antonym to "transgendered"; I find it sensible that way. This, indubitably, is important. And as far as those outside of the relevant fandoms are concerned, the most meaningful part here is: well, it's kind of amusing ( in meta- Rule #34 sense) that someone, obviously, daydreamed kamasutra while looking at a structural chemistry chapbook.  Therefore, back on topic... I wonder if transformed Forest animals lose their memory, but experience déjà-vu when they happen upon something singularly important from their former lives, without being able to actually remember. Why? As far as we know they just keep there memories. That page shows they remember what they were before. Just how much details before "the Test" they remember is not clear. Though probably it's not the point here. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 6:57:32 GMT
And furries, in turn, have all-important differences occasionally raising to holywars between "1/4 cat", "1/2 cat" and "3/4 cat" - or so it seems. Indubitably, everyone is obligated to care. You're not obliged to care. Sexuality is a fluid subject and a personal matter that nobody should interfere with. This includes such snide disrespect as yours. Why exactly do you find transsexuality ridiculous? Do you think that the ideal state of any human being is the one at the moment of its birth, and that questioning one's identity marks a delusion? I'm a guy and fine with that, if you care. Besides, I don't care about furries in any way but I acknowlege that they exist, and they can do whatever they want. That's my stance on transsexuality as well: it's not a big issue to me personally, but I trust that people who are transsexual probably have very good reasons (Mr. Buschbaum is the best example I know of), and everyone should be allowed the pursuit of their happiness. I'm afraid that this will sound trite and overblown, which is terrible in itself. You are obfuscating the matter. Nobody has claimed persecution. Unless... you want to? The term "cis-gendered" was originally coined in 1991 as an antonym to "transgendered"; I find it sensible that way. This, indubitably, is important. And as far as those outside of the relevant fandoms are concerned, the most meaningful part here is: well, it's kind of amusing ( in meta- Rule #34 sense) that someone, obviously, daydreamed kamasutra while looking at a structural chemistry chapbook. :D Heads up: "Cisalpine Gaul" and "Transalpine Gaul", for instance, use the same meanings of "cis" and "trans" (same side/opposite side) that long predate chemistry. Transsexuality is not necessarily about fucking, it's about one's social self-definition in the same way that you seem to be compelled to include references to xkcd and fantasy/sci-fi stuff in your posts - interests of yours which, indubitamplitudly, I couldn't care less about. That won't mske me "fix" those references in the same snide style that Intelligence used here, though. |
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Post by descoladavirus on Jul 13, 2014 7:19:05 GMT
This is probably more relevant to the previous comic, but the flashback to Kat reminded me...Kat's first love was with a boy who was actually a bird, right? And all animals that become human at the court have to be boys, right? Even if they're actually girls? Could Kat see through the facade, perhaps? I don't understand. Aly was a boy who turned into a bird, he wasn't really a bird, he simply became one. Actually, he didn't. His parents did ( 251) and they invited him along for the ride ( 252). I'm assuming that he had to go through the test, too, even though we didn't see it. He just didn't initiate it. Seems logical doesn't it? You've been wearing on my nerves when I read the discussion threads, Intelligence. Please dial back your attitude or at least give people enough respect to add tangible arguments to your superior, but extremely unclear reasoning. This sounds...not good. Just curious, what could you possibly do if he doesn't? I mean your attitude towards Intelligence at this point isn't...particularly kind either. I mean from my perspective you've overreacted a bit to him not knowing that cis isn't a slur, and I can fully understand that. Til a year ago I'd never heard it, and then it was used as an insult. But that wasn't my point. Personally, I'm just annoyed by Intelligence because I find he displays neither much knowledge nor respect nor humour. "Fixed" is just a one-word "I'm right you're wrong" that doesn't invite discussion. I still respect him enough that I won't report him for including a Forbidden Word ("Kat") in his post, but not enough to neglect pointing it out. EDIT: In the light of very recent, if not at all surprising events, I will mention that "trying to get around mentioning these character names" also violates your special rule. Intelligence, I think you got no fight in you. Make sure to edit your post again before the Keystone Kops come scampering around the corner. Forbidden Words? What? Is there an inside joke or something I'm missing out on here? I'm confused. |
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Post by warrl on Jul 13, 2014 7:32:03 GMT
There's little indication either way, but I like to think Aly is trans. It may not be very likely, but it makes sense to me. Aly being dissatisfied with his assigned gender might figure into why he was willing to leave behind humanity and become a bird on the mere whim of his parents - a way to leave behind a body that maybe didn't suit him, or escape to a society where gender was perhaps less of a meaningful thing. Based on the comic itself, I think Aly was agreeing to <whatever his parents just said> so that he could ignore it (and them) and continue playing his game. His only immediately-relevant dissatisfaction was with being interrupted. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 7:45:13 GMT
descoladavirus: Huh? It's not the cis/trans/whatever thing at all. It's his attitude with which he just says "Fixed" - which isn't even the polite reaction if you genuinely believe "cisgendered" to be a slur... and I'm not buying that, either, because Wikipedia has the entry right there when you Google "cisgendered" - that he's been on for ten months now. I ask that you skim through his post history, then judge me again. You can skim through mine as well for my fair share of dickish behaviour. Intelligence' first forty posts, eons ago, all created in a single week, were all about how "Paz is terrible like Boxbot because she stole Kat from Annie", all the time. Tom chimed in to make a gimmick rule that he never use "Paz", "Kat", "Boxbot" or "terrible" again, nor even allude to them by omission, or he'd be banned. That's the Forbidden Words nonsense. I sure don't want drama, it's just that Inty gets on my nerves sometimes and I've kindly asked him to shove it. I've responded to him like three times so far, including this thread, so it's not like I'm on an Internet vendetta against him or shit. ---- Edit: To be absolutely clear now, if Intelligence had removed any other word and done that "fixed" thing, I'd still have bickered at him and this post was the catalyst, not the sole reason. His behaviour in the past has vexed me, but I just ignored him when he did - we all have our cranky days, you can see that... The reason that I've suddenly turned Tumblr incarnate - and I swear I've pretty much stayed out of gender discussion on this forum so far, because you see how that gets, it's a real party - is TBeholder dropping that "sleeping hive of the Otherkin" remark accompanied by "unspeakable things being done to human language", because someone used "cisgendered" in passing. Sure, this is hyperbole or cleverest irony or whatever. I still found that an insulting blanket statement and brought up the example of Balian Buschbaum for a transsexual thrice now, which he has absolutely ignored. Why not insult that Magical Realm guy for his messed-up delusions, TBeholder? I think he even has a mail address, and I've heard he's written a whole book in which he also talks about transsexuality, and poses a much juicier publicly corrupting target than I am, appearing in the Spiegel and all.
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 13, 2014 7:52:16 GMT
Sexuality is a fluid subject and a personal matter that nobody should interfere with. You see, the problem with "nobody should interfere" part is that when you place something on the floor in a public area where it doesn't belong, people will "interfere" with it, whether by stepping or casting shadows upon. Whether you will remember to helpfully inform everyone around about what they "should" do or not. Thus, as someone apparently unable to keep the gates of "Magical Realm" from swinging wide open and pouring its contents outside, eventually you will have to bolt and lock them on the inside - to keep out poking fingers (and 10' oaken poles, for more traditional adventuring types) of the Evil Heathens Who Don't See The Awesomeness Because They Are Not As Cool As You. No matter how many royal decrees decrying outside world for being cold and unfuzzy you'll stick on them. It's just a matter of time. This includes such snide disrespect as yours. Why exactly do you find transsexuality ridiculous? I have an idea. If you'll try to quote in your answers only parts of messages that you do understand, this may engender greater understanding. On at least one side. Do you think that the ideal state of any human being is the one at the moment of its birth, and that questioning one's identity marks a delusion? (courtly) I think the Tribbles are very fuzzy. They could be better only if they had eyestalks. Everything is better with eyestalks. Well, almost. You are obfuscating the matter. Nobody has claimed persecution. Nobody has claimed that anybody "has claimed persecution", either. But the responce is curious. Heads up: "Cisalpine Gaul" and "Transalpine Gaul", for instance use the same meanings of "cis" and "trans" that long predate chemistry. The hypothesis involving student(s) who space out mid-reading remains far more believable than involvement of Gauls. IMHO. Sadly, it's due to empirical evidence. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 8:14:31 GMT
Sexuality is a fluid subject and a personal matter that nobody should interfere with. You see, the problem with "nobody should interfere" part is that when you place something on the floor in a public area where it doesn't belong Now, nobody would make a fuss out of this if it wasn't for Intelligence "fixing" it. I emphasize again that it's not only this post of his that has annoyed me, and that I'm mostly annoyed by the tone ("Fixed"). Is that you informing me that I shouldn't do that? Because that's ridiculous - we can accuse each other of imposing our morals on "the community" while most people actually don't even care about this particular bitchfight between two guys on the Internet. Dude, I'm not transsexual and spend zero percent of my time on Tumblr (except for Tom's). I'm a boy and the cis/trans issue isn't the thing with me here, nor much at all elsewhere. It's Inty saying "Fixed" as if people don't know what they're talking about - it's like he's telling people how they should speak or think, huh? - I don't like that. Of course I'm sometimes prone to doing it myself, I'll admit that. Morals are tempting pretty much by their nature. Still, you haven't gone out exactly with why you think transsexuality is ridiculous - unlike mythical dragons, gender roles are actually a matter of concern for a bunch of people I know and can reasonably be constructed as part of their social identity. Of course, these people are probably all stupid to you because of their deeply irrational beliefs, so whatever. You're assuming quite a lot about me... I never claimed that transsexuality was "awesome", I've stated that you should respect what other people regard as deeply personal to their lives. Of course, we have a conflict because you don't agree with that, and therefore I don't respect what is apparently very personal to you. Ultimately, I don't force you - the "should" is born because I believe that this kind of respect is decent. Why do you think it isn't? Edit: Magical Transsexuality Land extends to the dark reality of the (former, I think, by this point) youth world record holder in pole-vaulting. Yeah let's make out already. You didn't answer my question (directly) but... eh. Apparently you think it's ridiculous because transsexuality and furries are the same thing to you. They're not to me. This will lead us nowhere. Okay. How so? Do you think I have a persecution complex? Actually my opinions are kinda shitty and not really important. Do I have it all the more now? Probably. I think I got nothing, so: That's not about Gaul, it's about Latin nomenclature, which you know, and the cis-trans isomery stuff in chemistry was derived from this principle, which you also know. Don't be shitting on me just because I used the word "cis-gendered" for the first time in my life; I wanted to explain that it's not a slur and did so in pretty neutral terms, or so I had hoped. Can we end this now. Can we hug, or... do you live in Europe, I'll fetch you a bottle of wine too. This is getting on my nerves because I realize I'm being some annoying guy here, again. Let's not have this. |
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 13, 2014 8:33:30 GMT
"Aw, now hyuz just settin' hyuself op. Dot's no fun."(c) Ahem. So... does anyone think the chip on this fairy's upper left wing is somehow plot-important? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 8:41:46 GMT
Should I tear you up instead? How's this: The single mention of the word "cisgendered", to you, is apparently something that doesn't belong into a public area.
Thanks for admitting that you were deliberately fucking with me, though. Thanks a lot. Care to explain why?
Edit: Apparently you don't care right now. Maybe later?
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Post by hypixion on Jul 13, 2014 9:28:29 GMT
There's little indication either way, but I like to think Aly is trans. It may not be very likely, but it makes sense to me. Aly being dissatisfied with his assigned gender might figure into why he was willing to leave behind humanity and become a bird on the mere whim of his parents - a way to leave behind a body that maybe didn't suit him, or escape to a society where gender was perhaps less of a meaningful thing. Based on the comic itself, I think Aly was agreeing to <whatever his parents just said> so that he could ignore it (and them) and continue playing his game. His only immediately-relevant dissatisfaction was with being interrupted. It was just something Tom did for humor, it's used often. That is all to it, if it was because of something so important Tom might not have gone over it so lightly and Aly would've have mentioned something more. Not everything but atleast give a hint that there is something more to it than just agreeing. For the test, I don't think Aly has taken the test. His parents might have done it for him or them completing it was enough because Aly was a minor. Edit: some stuff I found on Tom's formspring: Q: Why did Aly take spending the rest of his life as a bird so well? A: Cos it's something his parents wanted to do. Q: Do Gillitie animals that wish to be human also have to die? Or do their transformations resemble Aly's more? A: Nah it's just some of the fairies that die like that. Most of the other animals and such change as Aly did. Q: Why did the Suicide Fairies have to die to be reincarnated into new bodies, but Aly and his family (or at least Aly) simply had their current bodies transformed into new ones? A: Double standards. A: Does Aly remember Kat even though he turned into a bird, do you plan on ever having him reappear in the story? Q: He remembers her as much as a bird can remember a person. He won't be in the comic again. Q: None of the boys in Foley have pointed ears, so were none of them elves like the ones Annie stayed with over the summer? Can elves switch sides, like fairies and animals? A: None have ever wanted to, and probably wouldn't be allowed anyway. Q: So does the Court get to choose what gender the forest folk become when they pass the test? A: Nope. The equation is simple anyway; fairies = girls, animals = boys Q: Wait, so if there was a female forest animal who passed the test, they'd be a male human? ....Why? A: Because they have enough fairies to take up all the available girl spaces each year. Q: Did those two fairies ever get a chance to wang tomatoes? A: They threw many tomatoes. |
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Post by descoladavirus on Jul 13, 2014 9:37:13 GMT
"Aw, now hyuz just settin' hyuself op. Dot's no fun."(c) Ahem. So... does anyone think the chip on this fairy's upper left wing is somehow plot-important? Now I don't know whether or not to read your posts with the voice of Xantam from the Dark Alliance game or a Jägermonster. Those wings look to be in a horrible state. Wonder what they're made of? |
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Post by eyemyself on Jul 13, 2014 11:23:19 GMT
Edit: some stuff I found on Tom's formspring: Q: Why did Aly take spending the rest of his life as a bird so well? A: Cos it's something his parents wanted to do. Q: Do Gillitie animals that wish to be human also have to die? Or do their transformations resemble Aly's more? A: Nah it's just some of the fairies that die like that. Most of the other animals and such change as Aly did. Q: Why did the Suicide Fairies have to die to be reincarnated into new bodies, but Aly and his family (or at least Aly) simply had their current bodies transformed into new ones? A: Double standards. A: Does Aly remember Kat even though he turned into a bird, do you plan on ever having him reappear in the story? Q: He remembers her as much as a bird can remember a person. He won't be in the comic again. Q: None of the boys in Foley have pointed ears, so were none of them elves like the ones Annie stayed with over the summer? Can elves switch sides, like fairies and animals? A: None have ever wanted to, and probably wouldn't be allowed anyway. Q: So does the Court get to choose what gender the forest folk become when they pass the test? A: Nope. The equation is simple anyway; fairies = girls, animals = boys Q: Wait, so if there was a female forest animal who passed the test, they'd be a male human? ....Why? A: Because they have enough fairies to take up all the available girl spaces each year. Q: Did those two fairies ever get a chance to wang tomatoes? A: They threw many tomatoes. Huh, interesting that only the fairies have to die. I wonder why that is? Also, this seems to imply that it is much more common for fairies to want to become human than for any other group in the forest. And holey cow, I never anticipated that using the term "cis-boy" would spark such controversy. I was motivated at least in part by the fact that cis-boy is a heck of a lot shorter to type than "boy who was born male." |
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Post by Rasselas on Jul 13, 2014 11:45:13 GMT
I wonder if transformed Forest animals lose their memory, but experience déjà-vu when they happen upon something singularly important from their former lives, without being able to actually remember. This would be very touching, I like this idea a lot. Although, when Red and Blue got to the Court, they remembered Annie. (Edit: BAH! I replied before I realized there was a whole other page of posts!) |
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 13, 2014 15:39:28 GMT
"Aw, now hyuz just settin' hyuself op. Dot's no fun."(c) Ahem. Now I don't know whether or not to read your posts with the voice of Xantam from the Dark Alliance game or a Jägermonster. Hy am to take every single hopportunity fer insertink references to dis matter evveryve 'cause dere's no place vere eet does not belong, und correct de spellink ov "Jäger", und lecture evveryvun about dis. Und ven there iz no hopportunity, hy vill take vun enyvvey, from de Dirak Sea. Und if hy meesed eny, hy vill go beck to add eet. Hy also ees jest a leedle teapot heetynouz baloon here und do NOT haff a fing for de Jägermonstern... or hepidermoose ov fun colorz... or de great beeg tusks, rrowr! Dere iz noffink messed op viff me. Vot?  Those wings look to be in a horrible state. Wonder what they're made of? Fairies seem to use available materials. But the previous one used some confection wrapper, maybe it's something like this. Very shiny, but not very wear-resistant. Q: Wait, so if there was a female forest animal who passed the test, they'd be a male human? ....Why? A: Because they have enough fairies to take up all the available girl spaces each year. Q: Did those two fairies ever get a chance to wang tomatoes? A: They threw many tomatoes. I, too, am happy for them. I wonder if transformed Forest animals lose their memory, but experience déjà-vu when they happen upon something singularly important from their former lives, without being able to actually remember. This would be very touching, I like this idea a lot. Although, when Red and Blue got to the Court, they remembered Annie. (Edit: BAH! I replied before I realized there was a whole other page of posts!) They met Annie after taking the test. So technically it's still possible that they remember well only parts after the transformation was set up. There's just no reason to assume this. |
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lit
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Post by lit on Jul 13, 2014 15:45:10 GMT
There's little indication either way, but I like to think Aly is trans. It may not be very likely, but it makes sense to me. Aly being dissatisfied with his assigned gender might figure into why he was willing to leave behind humanity and become a bird on the mere whim of his parents - a way to leave behind a body that maybe didn't suit him, or escape to a society where gender was perhaps less of a meaningful thing. Based on the comic itself, I think Aly was agreeing to <whatever his parents just said> so that he could ignore it (and them) and continue playing his game. His only immediately-relevant dissatisfaction was with being interrupted. Yes, that's the joke, and it's pretty funny. But I kind of doubt it tells the whole story. From a realism standpoint, unless they're entirely inconsiderate, I would have expected Aly's parents to at some point have sat down with him and talked seriously about whether he really was willing to entirely leave behind his friends (if he had them), his video games, and his body, rather than taking him at his word just then and starting the process without consulting him further. Would they have really forced him to become a bird if they perceived that he was at all reluctant? Children don't usually have a say when their family decides to move but this is a good deal more extreme a circumstance. It's not unbelievable that Aly could be a totally well adjusted, happy child, maybe home-schooled, who just likes trying out new things or doing what his parents want, but it's more interesting to me to think that he may have already given up on humanity because he felt so at odds with, or excluded from, human society (as trans people and other demographics so often do). When he met Kat, maybe he started to change his mind a little, but at that point it was too late to really go back. I like your theory! I think it's an interesting take on why Aly may have been so blase about the who becoming a bird thing. There really isn't much indication in the comic as to whether or not Aly was born male or chose to identify as male or perhaps was born male and didn't really feel male but presented that way anyway because that was what was expected so unless he reappears at some point his past is open to speculation. (one of the reasons my wording was "presumably." We just have no way of knowing without further information.) Thank you! Yes, there are so many possibilities. I would tend to see Aly as trans feminine, recently beginning to realize they(?) might not be cis, but lacking either the resources or courage to implement any sort of social or physical transition before their impending transformation into a bird. 'Cos what's the point in buying a new wardrobe or fighting to get people to respect your pronouns if you're just going to turn into a bird in a week? Why put yourself through all of that when you can just become a bird? Anyway, we can't know, and Aly will probably never be in the comic again, but I'm glad I can have headcanons like these without them being explicitly contradicted in the text. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 16:57:42 GMT
... I'm sorry for derailing once more, but I don't want to let this remark stand: Now I don't know whether or not to read your posts with the voice of Xantam from the Dark Alliance game or a Jägermonster. Hy am to take every single hopportunity fer insertink references to dis matter evveryve 'cause dere's no place vere eet does not belong, und correct de spellink ov "Jäger", und lecture evveryvun about dis. Und ven there iz no hopportunity, hy vill take vun enyvvey, from de Dirak Sea. Und if hy meesed eny, hy vill go beck to add eet. Hy also ees jest a leedle teapot heetynouz baloon here und do NOT haff a fing for de Jägermonstern... or hepidermoose ov fun colorz... or de great beeg tusks, rrowr! Dere iz noffink messed op viff me. Vot? Hey now. My point there was that you include references to sci-fi (for example) in your posts quite frequently, as a means of self-presentation, which in itself is fine by me, but then you take the mention of the word "cisgendered" as preaching the transsexual agenda and committing an unspeakable affront to language. The truth is that accepting the word does infer that one accepts transsexuality, which you aren't obliged to do, but I'm still failing to see why you may tell others which words one should use in public, whereas I cannot tell you that using these words is fine and should be respected in public, according to your fixed moral of condemning fixed morals. You could have chosen to ignore this matter entirely, since it doesn't belong here, and I would not have posted about it in such length; instead you've voiced your opinion that transsexuality is a ridiculous thing, to which I responded that it's a real and important thing for some people and some of those have it tough. I'm aware of the irony that intolerance against intolerance is, of course, also intolerance. I'll let you believe whatever honestly, but your attempt to systematically deride my opinion, and assert that I'm fundamentally deluded in my "Magical Realm" while you are the inquiring mind firmly rooted in the outside world, that I am the zealot who wants to crush all opposing beliefs, is shit that I'm not going to let fly. Believe whatever you want to believe, but I will believe that in this case, you're the one in fantasy lockdown land denying a social structure of lasting concern to quite some people (gender identity), by asserting that it is objectively nothing but delusion. (Incidentally, is this the same argument you use to deny religion? I'm not religious.) I mean, we have a comic right here in which the dynamics of shared beliefs are explored: would you, as a character in this comic, ridicule people for believing in Coyote, a social construct that came to life because people egoistically and irrationally believed that fate was out to get them, instead of their demise just being a matter of probability? Thanks for implying that I am apparently defending transsexuality because I have a "messed-up" fetish, though. That's nice of you... Man, I don't really want to continue this "discussion" but I'm also not happy with what you're trying to do with that comment I quoted here. Not at all. |
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 13, 2014 18:18:58 GMT
Thanks for implying that I am apparently defending transsexuality because I have a "messed-up" fetish, though. I don't know whether you're trying to put things into my mouth out of petty internet politicking or your perception is really screwed up this much. I am, however, reasonably confident that if someone makes a clown out of oneself, striking a hurt pose and expressing over the top indignation at the people pointing and laughing can possibly bring only more pointing and laughter. From a realism standpoint, unless they're entirely inconsiderate, I would have expected Aly's parents to at some point have sat down with him and talked seriously Sorry, "realism" or "optimism"? about whether he really was willing to entirely leave behind his friends (if he had them), his video games, and his body, rather than taking him at his word just then and starting the process without consulting him further. Would they have really forced him to become a bird if they perceived that he was at all reluctant? Well, if by the time he began to take it seriously, it already started... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 18:53:31 GMT
Thanks for implying that I am apparently defending transsexuality because I have a "messed-up" fetish, though. I don't know whether you're trying to put things into my mouth out of petty internet politicking or your perception is really screwed up this much. It's probably screwed up that much. Therefore, tell me directly: What is the purpose behind this remark? Hy also ees jest a leedle teapot heetynouz baloon here und do NOT haff a fing for de Jägermonstern... or hepidermoose ov fun colorz... or de great beeg tusks, rrowr! Dere iz noffink messed op viff me. Vot? ;) I want to highlight that you are currently the only one to publicly point and laugh at me in this thread. The others are just tired of this altogether, I figure. This is not the purpose of discussion. Indeed I am hurt, or at least confused: you keep selectively ignoring my posts, and treating me like shit ("warped perception", "petty politicking") because I used the word "cisgendered" and said that transsexuals should be respected, that there's no point in giving them a hard time (or furries for that matter, who do they hurt? Have you ever met one? I sure haven't, I don't care, nobody's forcing me into a fox suit). I swear, this day is probably the first time in my life I'm using this word myself, cisgendered - and I took offence to Intelligence rather respectlessly saying "Fixed" while adding nothing to the thread. Not even a tangible argument. I think that you are trying to politicize this discussion much more than I am. You can believe whatever - I mean this; I don't want to "convert" you, though of course I'm arguing how I see things here and try to back that up with some conviction. This is a discussion, after all. Why don't you roll with that? Why are you hell-bent on what you see as humiliating me as the sole purpose of your posting at this point? I'd like to know. |
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 13, 2014 19:07:42 GMT
This is probably more relevant to the previous comic, but the flashback to Kat reminded me...Kat's first love was with a boy who was actually a bird, right? And all animals that become human at the court have to be boys, right? Even if they're actually girls? Could Kat see through the facade, perhaps? I don't understand. Aly was a boy who turned into a bird, he wasn't really a bird, he simply became one. Uh... Doesn't "became X" mean "was not X, but now is X"... by definition? |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jul 13, 2014 22:34:10 GMT
This is probably more relevant to the previous comic, but the flashback to Kat reminded me...Kat's first love was with a boy who was actually a bird, right? And all animals that become human at the court have to be boys, right? Even if they're actually girls? It was the opposite. Alistair was a human boy who went to become a bird to live in the Forest. He went through the test to the opposite way. Ohhh! My mistake. I only vaguely remember that chapter, so I just keyed on the animal gender-shifting thing. Oops! FALSE ALARM EVERYBODY! PLEASE RETURN TO YOUR SEATS! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 4:14:27 GMT
A relaxing night's sleep and a breakfast make you see things differently. I'll allow myself a final cigarette:
TBeholder, I've been kinda dumb. I think I understand you better now: Your stance is that I'm intolerant of your personal freedom to find transsexuality ridiculous, or at least irrelevant to your life, because I insisted that you respect it as another person's choice. That is true. You added that I'm not very dignified for being upset about such lack of respect, which, I must admit, is also true.
What you also ridiculed was my example of B. Buschbaum as a prominent transsexual, which you saw as my wanting to convince you of transsexuality's social relevancy, and by extension, pettily accusing you of being "unfashionable" for your opinion - or, as you put it, an evil heathen who doesn't see the awesomeness that I do. Two scenarios arise.
If you hold the opinion that such social relevancy is also a delusion, I'll say that in the same way that people let you play... say, fantasy tabletop games (I assume, because you're a fuzzy Beholder) and talk about them with others, respecting that decision by being indifferent to it, you should respect this relaxed attitude and not care about transsexuality, in kind. I was quite wrong to demand that you respect the topic in itself, but in the end, you can't help but respect that denying the fashionable, universal "should" means that everyone needs to stop stepping on others' turf, including laughing at what one sees as dumb mistakes - since that, too, is a form of moralizing.
Alternatively, you could maintain that nothing really demands respect and people with diverging interests or abilities must harp on each other relentlessly, because only that shows the crowd who's boss, and thereby brings out the truth, and a universally correct code of morals.
If you think that social relevancy exists as a measure of one's achievements or the relative importance of ideas, then I think Balian Buschbaum, as a distinguished athlete, has enough of it.
Finally: I maintain that a "holywar" between "1/2 cats" and "1/4 cats" on Tumblr differs from someone using "cisgendered" with no visible intention of moralizing (you'll notice that Intelligence started that - his "Fixed" is that same "you shouldn't..." again), and in context to the comic. If you do feel insulted by those fracture-cats and must voice your equally high-horsed opinion about this in a public place, then I guess you may christen yourself the "0 cat", or the Cheshire Cat if that's more your fancy.
I'll try to get my wretched brain together and be more relaxed about this next time, if there is one. Like I said, though I still suspect you don't believe it, this is the first time I've even felt the need to discuss the term "cisgendered" in my life, and it all started with my being annoyed at some wholly different poster for a different reason. Sorry for this mess, everyone.---- An Annotation from the Dystopian Future While Adorno's ominous sleeper agents have not come forth yet, usurping all positions of power in the democratic world (fat chance), I must make haste to share the genuine wisdom I have attained from a strange and rewarding source, even though it is not among the three once counted by Pushkin (youth, poetry, oblivion). In other words, I have something to get off my chest that, perhaps, no one besides me will ever see. Time will tell, although it won't tell me personally. For the moment, disregard the subject of the painful mock debate above (as both parties did almost right from the start, I presume). That particular glass-bead game solely serves to illustrate the underlying problem: the foundation, spread and clashing of "moral values". The case made by TBeholder is as follows: first, any reasonable code of ethics must be based on pragmatic assumptions, distinct from dogmatic assumptions in that they are instrumental to finding the behaviour most suited to personal evolution for oneself, and not instruments of a presupposed notion of correct behaviour. No objections there. Furthermore, most people do not base their conduct on any reasonable code of ethics by this definition. Now the wishes and benefit of all participants, not most people as silly run-o'-the-Mill utilitarians would like you to believe in an appeal to "common sense", should guide foremost any democratic society whose ancient attribute is not merely used as a fashionable button to be stuck on the same old shirt for indie cred (a certain someone might enjoy the schizophrenical twist to this term). Unfortunately, power dynamics at their simplest feature an elite abusing the wishes of the disenfranchised in order to contain an opposing elite. And some people like to keep it simple. Returning to the actual subject matter, it is disappointingly mundane as I perceive it: "waah waah respect transsexuality for no reason (not furries though, I find them strange too. also respect me because I use very smart words.)" "LAUGHING ON LINE at your failed categorical imperative, also LAUGHING ON LINE at your failure to understand this or its inherently totalitarian flavour; also some deliberately obfuscated arguments about how assuming to have divergently-structured white matter from what one's genitals indicate is the same as assuming to have the brain of a different species of animal altogether, ignoring the obvious false analogy while highlighting the scientific flavour to my metaphysical argument (just a little trick of mine). also over-validated bitches best step, because I use even smarter words. please validate me" Which other false assumptions could one derive from the above "discussion"? - That disrespecting minority group A while claiming respect for minority group B constitutes hypocritical behaviour. As such, it just constitutes an expression of personal preference. The true offense lies in presenting either as a social norm that every human being in a certain umwelt should adhere to, unless unanimous scientific proof can be given that it is indeed correct to assume so (that is, it obviously improves everybody's health, such as not shitting on the floor...); otherwise, it is very much hypocritical. - That disrespecting minority group A even for the best of intentions is ultimately a worthwhile addition to one's character. Individuals can already define themselves by their love for a combination of select interests. Shitting on other people's turf, even if ritualized discriminately and as a consequence of one's oppositional maxims, will just keep you preoccupied with shit in general and hasten your own decay. Don't fall into the trap of complacent ridicule, which is indistinct from sermonizing apart from the associated "emotion" in the speaker (I am guessing that TBeholder would reject the popular reduction of this term, anyway). As the admirable Frank Wedekind once wrote, there is not a person on Earth that laughs while they still have a penny in their pocket. (Der vermummte Herr, in Frühlings Erwachen III, 7). - That social engineering through ridicule from above is all that preferable to social engineering through fear and loathing from below. While TBeholder's ridicule made me reflect on my stupid behaviour, and hopefully will make me more aware of similar stupidities, he could conceivably have been less of an obtuse dick about it, and referenced less unappealing webcomics in which sack people grimace very stereotypically that I do not and will not read, and I might even have learned all this directly from him. One should gauge the process, not only the result. See above. - That TBeholder was wrong to ridicule me for any other reason than how this showed that he didn't enjoy the poor lab rat slowly figuring out a way through the maze of commentary and context, but rather enjoyed exploiting the lab rat's initial helplessness and disorientation. Science, to me, entails a fundamental benevolence towards those who understand less, while not refraining from confronting them with challenges to their knowledge and character, in the hope of improvement. TBeholder dodging the question was actually a good show of Kierkegaardian subjectivity as a vehicle of education. It's just his small-time sadistic attitude that I still cannot respect here. - That free speech is endangered by transgender as such at the moment. Transgender, in the above non-debate, could be replaced by many other topics with minimal alterations required; the true problem is someone telling someone what to think about something purely based on abductive reasoning, yet claiming that any stance towards said topic is thereby falsifiable. In other words, arguing about faith with the methods of science. That works for scholastics, but the Middle Ages are over. Also note that the Inquisition was founded as a response to a movement spawned by widespread access to previously obscure information, and draw an admittedly flaky analogy if you wish. - That Tumblr is not an awkward place where awkward people tend to commingle in cybernetic cliques, lacking any sort of navigational aid, which is, in fact, what I originally meant by "strange ideas on the Internet": transsexuality seen as some kind of performance art or pseudoscientific tool for reshaping "universal" moral values. Any facet of sexuality used as such, actually. (Again, I think TBeholder will enjoy this bizarre bout of post-humiliation insight, seasoned with bitter irony, provided he'll ever see this, which is unlikely.) - (Warning: non-falsifiable metaphysics) That liberalism is the plight of Western enlightened civilization. That would rather be the aversion to Nagaryuna's method of dispelling apparent dichotomies in debating, resulting in liberalism ("all people are different in character, and equal in value") being warped into abhorrent Ekwilism ("all people are different in value, and should be equal in character") or egalitarian stealth imperialism ("all people are different, and how great is that, because the inferiority of others, as measured by my standards of human decency, fuels my personal enjoyment as well as that of those I identify with"). Note carefully that imperialism is not characterized by people differing in abilities, which is natural, or enjoying one's own superior abilities, but by specifically exploiting this difference so as to minimize the effort needed to reap the desired rewards, that is, you are profitting off the poverty of others more than off your own wealth. - That the existence and scientific grounds of transsexuality have actually been argued for or against with any respectable degree of expertise on the subject by either side. - A thousand others, because people are mostly stupid, myself definitely included, although there are two distinct ways to go about it. Refer to Robert Musil, "Über die Dummheit", for further reading. Thus concludes today's petty internet politicking by the boy who once misspelled "cobra". (Last ironic snack for today: the staunch critics of the Frankfurt School aping precisely that style, as well as the constant appeals to rational thought and dismissals of naivité; le style, c'est l'homme même.) More food for thought: youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/#more-1218PS. There has been another fundamental misunderstanding, I think: TBeholder is, most likely, an eliminative materialist using the Socratic method and appears to posit that if a thought cannot exist other than as a phenomenon (we agree on this), said thought is refuted automatically by specific other phenomena to which he metaphysically ascribes a higher priority of "naturality" (this is quite amusing), while failing to provide a neuroscientific argument against the reality of transgender - and the onus was and still rests, at least technically, on the one who claims that "cisgender" is a meaningless husk of a word. I, on the other hand, maintain that if your brain processes are statistically more typical of biological men while your genitals match those of a biological woman, such a conflict cannot prove that either is somehow more natural or material than the other, but rather that this invites neuroscientific investigation by challenging "common sense" theories of gender. This includes, of course, the use and interpretation of the word itself - and it is its instrumentalization as a backdoor for morally-charged Platonic idealism (i.e. what is usually called "Rationalist ethics" or, more recently, "narrative discourse") that TBeholder has correctly attacked, if a bit imprecisely, as "petty internet politicking". Never again, if I can help it. |
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