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Post by alpacalypse on Jan 29, 2014 15:16:37 GMT
I'd like to think that this is actually a thing that Mort didn't create and the reason that Annie is so impressed is that she hasn't seen stuff like this before. Also how does Mort know about Kat's symbol, I've never seen him outside of his little wing of the school, or the fire spike for that matter. Has Annie ever told him that she is a fire elemental?
As for the dude, I think Annie and Mort are just kinda oblivious sometimes and didn't notice the dude right in front of them. Either that or cheesy looking decorations look like "regular" people to Annie and Mort and the more realistic dude in a sheet just looks like a cheesy decoration.
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Post by exdevlin on Jan 29, 2014 15:27:13 GMT
I'm going to stick to my interpretation that everyone's just seeing things differently, whether or not one is more 'true' than the other. I think Kat's skepticism enables her to see through a lot of things, but that also degrades what she sees down to paper cutouts and cheap Halloween decor. I'm really interested in seeing what Annie sees though (or for that matter, if any of the denizens of the RotD see in Kat what Zimmy saw).
As for the theory that this might be Mort's passing into the ether, that's a good one. I was wondering where this chapter would really lead.
Thus far, Guy in Robes is the first 3D character we've seen in RotD, and I wonder if that makes any difference here. Is he the only real character in this world, as opposed to the other pop-out NPCs?
... that's a pretty tiny library, yo. RobesGuy must be the holder of all knowledge. "Oh man, I'm so ready to get the next person who walks in here! ... So gonna come in here soon. Yup. Next visitor's totally getting spooked."
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Karretch
New Member
Big alien robot
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Post by Karretch on Jan 29, 2014 15:49:07 GMT
I think it's a paper thingie (don't know the word in french, so, in english...), to keep track of the books. Others have pointed out that these are commonly called Rolodex, as that's the brand name that popularized the product (we've done the same with Xerox, Kleenex, and in some parts of the US, Coke). We otherwise have no name for this thing, and the generic term I've heard most often is 'card index.' The term for that object is called a rotary or rolling index. And to actually contribute, keeping with the different views idea, could Mort be seeing something other than Annie as well? |
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Post by TBeholder on Jan 29, 2014 18:19:35 GMT
"Sands of Zanzibar! You see an office building? "You don't?" "I see a field - wild, overgrown, barbaric. Look over there! A feral rabbit." "Seriously?" "No, I see an office building." (looking up) Hmm... "Dubby, did he just turn into a bat puppet?" "Man, I don't even have an opinion." Indeed.  |
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Post by Daedalus on Jan 29, 2014 19:57:09 GMT
Others have pointed out that these are commonly called Rolodex, as that's the brand name that popularized the product (we've done the same with Xerox, Kleenex, and in some parts of the US, Coke). We otherwise have no name for this thing, and the generic term I've heard most often is 'card index.' The term for that object is called a rotary or rolling index. And to actually contribute, keeping with the different views idea, could Mort be seeing something other than Annie as well? He's seeing the cursed teapot. |
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Post by thedoctor on Jan 29, 2014 20:38:35 GMT
Man, that color gradient filter Tom is using is really messing with my head...
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 29, 2014 21:36:06 GMT
I'm going to stick to my interpretation that everyone's just seeing things differently, whether or not one is more 'true' than the other. I think Kat's skepticism enables her to see through a lot of things, but that also degrades what she sees down to paper cutouts and cheap Halloween decor. I'm really interested in seeing what Annie sees though (or for that matter, if any of the denizens of the RotD see in Kat what Zimmy saw). This is in line with what I'm thinking. Although, I would argue that Kat's point of view is the most true, as so far she's seen more important details - like the fact there's a guy in the room. (No, seriously; I'd enjoy a philisophical debate on the nature of truth here, on this forum, as it applies to this particular situation in-comic.) |
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Post by Angry Individual on Jan 29, 2014 21:41:39 GMT
Huh!
I feel like Tom is messing with us in trying to make us believe that everything they see is different.
In fact, it's exactly how it looks. Annie and Mort are just weirdos.
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Post by sapientcoffee on Jan 29, 2014 21:46:55 GMT
"Sands of Zanzibar! You see an office building? "You don't?" "I see a field - wild, overgrown, barbaric. Look over there! A feral rabbit." "Seriously?" "No, I see an office building." (looking up) Hmm... "Dubby, did he just turn into a bat puppet?" "Man, I don't even have an opinion." Indeed. As a fast aside, The Middleman is a great (short-lived *sniff*) show that everyone should give a try. |
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Post by nero on Jan 29, 2014 21:49:10 GMT
This chapter is really cheering me up. It looks like they thought the Library door was wide enough but then width decreased.
Or maybe they were all excited to see the library. I actually thought that Mr.Tag was just decoration at first so their shock seems justified to me.
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fishtie
Full Member
...I've learned to be amazed first and ask questions later.
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Post by fishtie on Jan 29, 2014 22:35:10 GMT
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Post by ctso74 on Jan 30, 2014 1:38:49 GMT
You (and most others) seem to make the implicit assumption that Annie's vision is superior to Kat's. I wouldn't say superior. It's less Unreliable Narrator and more etheric Rashomon. Different perceptions of a literal unreality, but none exactly true. Like they're walking through the same Minecraft world, while using different skins. The metric for unraveling this Rashomon would be the Word of Tom, but I imagine that would make things even more unfathomable and interesting. The subjectivity of perception is a curious puzzle, that always makes my head feel funny. Or maybe it doesn't, I just think it does... |
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 30, 2014 3:02:06 GMT
You (and most others) seem to make the implicit assumption that Annie's vision is superior to Kat's. I wouldn't say superior. It's less Unreliable Narrator and more etheric Rashomon. Different perceptions of a literal unreality, but none exactly true. Like they're walking through the same Minecraft world, while using different skins. The metric for unraveling this Rashomon would be the Word of Tom, but I imagine that would make things even more unfathomable and interesting. The subjectivity of perception is a curious puzzle, that always makes my head feel funny. Or maybe it doesn't, I just think it does... I was actually more conserned with the notion that if there is an objective difference in the quality of their vision, then Annie would have the "better" side. (In context, this was in response to a poster forwarding the opinion that Annie and Mort were seeing so much etheric stuff in addition to the "mundane" view Kat sees that the massive guy looming in the corner of this small closet "got lost in the noise". Which I find rather far-fetched.) |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Jan 30, 2014 3:15:53 GMT
You (and most others) seem to make the implicit assumption that Annie's vision is superior to Kat's. I wouldn't say superior. It's less Unreliable Narrator and more etheric Rashomon. Different perceptions of a literal unreality, but none exactly true. Like they're walking through the same Minecraft world, while using different skins. The metric for unraveling this Rashomon would be the Word of Tom, but I imagine that would make things even more unfathomable and interesting. The subjectivity of perception is a curious puzzle, that always makes my head feel funny. Or maybe it doesn't, I just think it does... I dunno if anyone else has read it, but it mostly reminds me of Lady of Mazes, which has a setup that involves a kind of personal virtual reality. |
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Post by TBeholder on Jan 30, 2014 14:26:01 GMT
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Shire
Junior Member
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Post by Shire on Jan 30, 2014 16:12:05 GMT
I think what's really interesting here is that Mort didn't see the guy. You'd think that being being an employee of the ROTD would let him see all the things. Ok, after years of reading I finally had to create a forum account for speculation here. None of this is looking like the "real Realm of the Dead" probably would in GC. I know some people are saying it's Kat's perception of it... but more accurate seeming to me is that it's Mort's coping mechanism. He wasn't allowed to stay. He invented the ROTD to feel like he had permission to stay. This is just like the boy she first acted as spirit guide for, this is Mort's origin/death story illusion. This chapter is going to lead no where in the search for Jeanne because it's all Mort's illusions. Whether it leads to Mort passing on into the ether will be a good question. That's my theory. All of this reminds me so much of the kind of "scary realm of the dead" that Mort would have dreamt up before they started helping him be scarier. Edit: In my theory the scary guy Mort & Annie didn't see is the first non-Mort generated thing in here, and would be the start of Mort's death being retold as with the "showing the little creature to Annie" was the earlier boy's death retelling. That is a very intriguing theory. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 30, 2014 21:15:45 GMT
My current theory: We're indeed seeing the RotD the way Kat sees things. Kat sees things this way because she doesn't have etheric abilities. Because she's just seeing the classic haunted house overlay that keeps the accidental mortal tourist from seeing too much Kat had an advantage in spotting the dude in the corner because she didn't have to sort him from a lot of eye candy/objects/clutter.
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Post by crater on Jan 30, 2014 23:28:05 GMT
well at first RotD just seemed like goofvill but now it seems like something is up with that place...
did RotD just break the forthwall by using the same red arrow Tom did to narrate the maze?
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Post by atteSmythe on Jan 30, 2014 23:31:51 GMT
The fourth wall? Man, Tom broke the door!
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 31, 2014 3:42:24 GMT
My current theory: We're indeed seeing the RotD the way Kat sees things. Kat sees things this way because she doesn't have etheric abilities. Because she's just seeing the classic haunted house overlay that keeps the accidental mortal tourist from seeing too much Kat had an advantage in spotting the dude in the corner because she didn't have to sort him from a lot of eye candy/objects/clutter. It's possible, but I'm skeptical that separating "reality" from "ether" would be so difficult -its never been a problem before, even in the Forest. This would indicate that Mort and Annie have a fundamentally different perspective than Kat, not just "Kat's view + an overlay". Also, I doubt the ROTD was ever intended to be seen by non-etherically gifted mortals (least of all "tourists"). So far, the only known way a living person can gain access involves significant prior experiance with ghosts and the psychopomps. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 31, 2014 14:39:49 GMT
My current theory: We're indeed seeing the RotD the way Kat sees things. Kat sees things this way because she doesn't have etheric abilities. Because she's just seeing the classic haunted house overlay that keeps the accidental mortal tourist from seeing too much Kat had an advantage in spotting the dude in the corner because she didn't have to sort him from a lot of eye candy/objects/clutter. It's possible, but I'm skeptical that separating "reality" from "ether" would be so difficult -its never been a problem before, even in the Forest. This would indicate that Mort and Annie have a fundamentally different perspective than Kat, not just "Kat's view + an overlay". Also, I doubt the ROTD was ever intended to be seen by non-etherically gifted mortals (least of all "tourists"). So far, the only known way a living person can gain access involves significant prior experiance with ghosts and the psychopomps. [shrug] There are myths about people visiting land of the dead about various problems and coming back... Dividing reality from ether would be an error in general in the Gunnververse 'cause the ether's just as real as matter, and if this is not an illusory overlay created by the RotD then what Kat perceives and interacts with is real. It's just subjective. I'm guessing all characters in GC have a unique perspective [story] and that is what passes for a soul in the Gunnerverse. I'm guessing this is an illusion purposefully created [think of it as a security clearance layer that allows guests limited interaction with some things but not others] but that is mainly because of Kat's ease of spotting people inside the RotD. If this is just an overlay of what Kat expects to see because she doesn't really believe in the supernatural on some level, created by Kat's own mind, I would think that she wouldn't be able to spot the dudes so easily... unless there was some combination of both going on, I suppose. Even so, it's still subjective but real. |
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 31, 2014 18:49:43 GMT
Dividing reality from ether would be an error in general in the Gunnververse 'cause the ether's just as real as matter, and if this is not an illusory overlay created by the RotD then what Kat perceives and interacts with is real. It's just subjective. That's what I mean though. reality
2.1 Philosophy existence that is absolute, self-sufficient, or objective, and not subject to human decisions or conventions. If something has no objective existence, it is by definition not real. Thankfully for you and I, we don't have to deal with things that are not real affecting those which are often, and thus don't have to question the meaning of life itself on a regular basis. Can you see now why the science abhors the ether?  |
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Post by ctso74 on Jan 31, 2014 19:21:31 GMT
That's what I mean though. reality
2.1 Philosophy existence that is absolute, self-sufficient, or objective, and not subject to human decisions or conventions. If something has no objective existence, it is by definition not real. Thankfully for you and I, we don't have to deal with things that are not real affecting those which are often, and thus don't have to question the meaning of life itself on a regular basis. Can you see now why the science abhors the ether? If we're on Philosophy, wouldn't the Court be considered Instrumentalist? They treat the Ether like a black box, that you input into and get the stuff you want out. Some may want to understand it, but mainly they don't care to empirical falsify it, just as long as it can get results. |
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 31, 2014 20:39:18 GMT
If we're on Philosophy, wouldn't the Court be considered Instrumentalist? They treat the Ether like a black box, that you input into and get the stuff you want out. Some may want to understand it, but mainly they don't care to empirical falsify it, just as long as it can get results. That would describe the Etherial Tenant. The Early Court was probably very Instrumentalist, but judging from Anja's comments and some Word Of Tom, the modern Court seems a lot more Realist. Oh, and with etheric stuff there's no guarantee that it'll work in a consistant enough manner for even a "black box" model to be workable... |
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Post by dliessmgg on Jan 31, 2014 20:50:51 GMT
It works well enough for a partially etheric computer, and in your link she calls it etheric technology. The court as an institution may ignore the ether, but that doesn't mean everyone working for the court does.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 31, 2014 22:23:02 GMT
How about I put my thinking this way: There is an old saying that when one is tricked, one is in some way taken captive. In our universe getting tricked can range from a prank to something deadly depending on circumstances but perhaps in the gunnerverse [where stories go into the ether at the end] a trick can separate one from what passes for reality. When Coyote tricks someone he gets a jolly or feeds on a creature or person, or gets whatever he gets out of it he gets, when Mort scares someone he does his job [which powers the etherium or renews the faith in ghosts or whatever the hell his job does]. It's subjective but there's been a hierarchal structure created of more-and-less real, like the material "normal world" and the etherium with places like Gunnerkrigg Court residing somewhere between. If the RotD has a trick protecting its inner workings from guests who aren't cleared to use the facilities then I think I am justified in making a distinction and calling it not real, but a RotD trick and Kat's brain creating a cheapo Halloween-theme overlay from deep-rooted disbelief are not mutually exclusive possibilities... so what I said before.
Also: There is an objective reality in the gunnerverse? The more I read the comic the less I think so.
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