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Post by kalechibki on Jan 8, 2014 19:03:14 GMT
Great Job esc7 for picking that up! ^_^ I was thinking that I would have to go back and find that comic for myself. Thought Ninja'd! As Annie noted after the first meeting between the forest and the court neither side has a very high opinion of the other. I don't think Coyote is benevolent... but I don't think he is motivated by sheer desire to take over, either. I think Coyote is playing a long, deep game with the court... and that the Headmaster is also playing a long game with the forest... although probably not as sophisticated as Coyote's. (He is not, after all, and immortal god. Although Coyote seems to think the court is man's attempt to become god.) I think, in many ways, Coyote has taken Annie under his wing to groom her for a role similar to the one he had in mind for Reynard before the later was tricked and trapped by the court. Wouldn't it be ironic if Kat did become the Robot God, and ironically outside of the Court's influence because of her knowledge of the Court's buried past, rather than whomever the court is trying to set up? Also, do we know what Coyote's endgame was with regard to Renard? I think we are assuming that the court assessed the need to get Renard on their side as good intel. However, I don't think that Coyote ever confirmed that. My guess is that when Coyote wanted Renard back, it was for his own amusement; pitting Ys against Renard must have been great fun back in the day. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jan 8, 2014 19:18:28 GMT
My guess is that when Coyote wanted Renard back, it was for his own amusement; pitting Ys against Renard must have been great fun back in the day. I think this is probably the most likely. Coyote does not seem to be an intel-oriented leader. More like a mischief-oriented leader. |
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Post by Lightice on Jan 8, 2014 19:27:10 GMT
Coyote and the court have an antagonist relationship for some reason. I don't know what Coyote wants or is planning but he does not seem benevolent. I wouldn't be surprised if one of his goals was the destruction of the court or gathering more etheric power. Or just to laugh in their faces. While I agree with your first assertion, I don't see any grounds for the rest. Coyote can mark millions of square miles on the Moon for a joke. If he wanted, he could flatten every major city on Earth. How much more power can he want? He's never shown any desire for becoming stronger; no-one can threaten him and he gets no enjoyment out of forcing people to follow his whims. He finds it much more fun to rile them up and see what they will come up with on their own. Indeed, he is giving his powers away piece by piece because it's more interesting to watch someone else get tangled in all sorts of troubles by using them. For the same reason he wouldn't want to destroy the Court or directly interfere with them -- he wants to see what kind of disasters they cause all on their own, instead. Coyote doesn't seem to have any sense of empathy, but it would be a mistake to assign evil overlord tropes to him just because of that. He isn't out to conquer the world or spread evil and strife. He is perpetually bored and wants to alleviate his boredom by messing with people's expectations. He gives gifts that cause chaotic events to unfold rather than causing them himself because he likes the unpredictability and wants to be surprised. In short, Coyote is a bad guy, but he's not a villain. |
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Post by eyemyself on Jan 8, 2014 19:30:31 GMT
Coyote and the court have an antagonist relationship for some reason. I don't know what Coyote wants or is planning but he does not seem benevolent. Agreed. Whatever Coyote's goal is, he does not care who gets hurt in the doing of it (poor Ysengrin...) I read his characterization as a sociopath - he has no empathy (or morals, for that matter) whatsoever. actually posted the line you quoted, however, I also agree that Coyote only cares for Coyote and Coyote's amusement. He is unconcerned about collateral damage and uninterested in the well being of others beyond their ability to help him achieve his aims. I believe his interest in Annie stems from seeing her as a powerful potential ally capable of helping him achieve a great deal of chaos if properly manipulated. She has the ability to return Reynard to the forest, has a great deal of etheric ability without full understanding of or ability to control it yet, is curious but also a bit naive which makes her a perfect tool for him. I know someone earlier in this thread commented that Coyote's actions might lack logic. I think his actions have demonstrated a frightening amount of logic and consistency. Coyote seems to have long, well established, deeply complex plans in play that he is moving towards fruition and I think he intends Annie to play a vital role in those plans. |
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Post by TBeholder on Jan 8, 2014 19:36:32 GMT
Yup... It's never the easy way. Maybe, Annie is shy about the fact she lost her blinker? According to Anja you can never lose a blinker stone. Yes Annie has the ability to separate from hers now thanks to the fairies, but I am betting she still has it stashed away and has the ability to find and call it just as easily as before. If an attempt to actually retrieve it ends up in coma and no blinker, still existing access makes no practical difference. maybe it has to do with the fact that both times she's met Jeanne she was slashed across the face and almost killed She doesn't have such problems with 'Grin... |
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Post by eyemyself on Jan 8, 2014 19:37:11 GMT
My guess is that when Coyote wanted Renard back, it was for his own amusement; pitting Ys against Renard must have been great fun back in the day. I think this is probably the most likely. Coyote does not seem to be an intel-oriented leader. More like a mischief-oriented leader. I think it goes beyond the small scale manipulation of Ys vs. Reynard to a more large scale manipulation of Reynard as a potentially powerful creature with and affinity for humans who can be manipulated into unintentionally creating chaos for them. Again, I think he sees Annie in much the same way. Coyote's main agenda seems to be to sew the seeds of chaos on as large a scale as possible thus maximizing his own amusement. He has no particular fondness for humans but is very fond of watching them blunder about and unwittingly get in their own way... thus he doesn't want to eliminate them but certainly wouldn't be adverse to having access to the court so he could manipulate the situation across the river to a greater degree. |
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Post by Intelligence on Jan 8, 2014 19:38:03 GMT
I don't see Coyote as a bad guy, despite tricking Renard and eating Ysengrin's memories. He's just trying to make the world a more interesting place! And not all sociopaths are bad, some of them are also officers of the law as well as criminals.
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Post by eyemyself on Jan 8, 2014 19:43:56 GMT
If an attempt to actually retrieve it ends up in coma and no blinker, still existing access makes no practical difference. Ok, I think I misunderstood you. I thought your last post was implying that Annie's stone was currently lost, now I think you were referring to when Jeanne held the stone and Annie was unable to escape as long as Jeanne had it. As a few people have pointed out, at that time Annie was still etherically bound to the stone. The faries have since shown her how to disconnect from the stone when in etheric form which might change the dynamics a bit. We don't know if Jeanne can still use the stone to trap Annie now that Annie's etheric self has the ability to disconnect from the stone. Interestingly enough, now that she can disconnect from the stone Annie may be able to project herself into the ravine etherically without it. |
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Post by sidhekin on Jan 8, 2014 19:47:14 GMT
Recall, Coyote finds humans interesting. Amusing. He may well be rooting for the Court's attempted apotheosis. Just imagine how interesting their success would be. The potential for amusement.
Hey, I would not put it past him to put the Court up to it in the first place. Not that anyone else would suspect.
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Post by Deepbluediver on Jan 8, 2014 20:00:26 GMT
Annie seems uncharacteristically hesitant. Maybe she's trying to be control all the burning passion/rage that the fire-elemental side of her brings to the table. Plus, she's gotten into trouble at least 3 times now from not listening to other people or gallivanting off on her own. Could it possibly be...the fabled, the legendary- character development If you remember Coyote is forbidden by his own promise to interfere with the court directly. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=792I wouldn't be surprised if one of his goals was the destruction of the court or gathering more etheric power. Or just to laugh in their faces. Right, because no agreement from Coyote would ever have holes in it big enough to drive the space-shuttle through. Just off the top of my head, where does the Anan river/gorge fall? It's outside the boundaries of both court and forest, as far as I can tell. And from reading the various notes on Coyotes character, it seems like he is solely motivated by his own personal amusement. If he was going to destroy the court, then he do it in a way that was hilarious (to him, at least). "More power" doesn't really seem to be his thing either, given the way he hands out various parlor tricks. |
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Post by Gotolei on Jan 8, 2014 20:14:57 GMT
maybe it has to do with the fact that both times she's met Jeanne she was slashed across the face and almost killed She doesn't have such problems with 'Grin... And she has some pretty good reasons for that. The first time she talked to Jeanne ( 140), she got the immediate sword to the face. The first time she talked to Ysengrin ( 279), he actually replied and they argued back and forth. Admittedly he threw an attack her way as well  but that was only after spankies, instead of for no apparent reason. And when she asked him about what happened in The Great Secret ( 1238), it actually resolved. Also she did have a bit of unease around him, before Crash Course. There's more awkwardness than usual for Annie in previous link, and she was visibly confused when he offered support (as well as that one guy). |
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Post by eyemyself on Jan 8, 2014 20:15:55 GMT
Annie seems uncharacteristically hesitant. Maybe she's trying to be control all the burning passion/rage that the fire-elemental side of her brings to the table. Plus, she's gotten into trouble at least 3 times now from not listening to other people or gallivanting off on her own. Could it possibly be...the fabled, the legendary- character developmentIf you remember Coyote is forbidden by his own promise to interfere with the court directly. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=792I wouldn't be surprised if one of his goals was the destruction of the court or gathering more etheric power. Or just to laugh in their faces. Right, because no agreement from Coyote would ever have holes in it big enough to drive the space-shuttle through. Just off the top of my head, where does the Anan river/gorge fall? It's outside the boundaries of both court and forest, as far as I can tell. And from reading the various notes on Coyotes character, it seems like he is solely motivated by his own personal amusement. If he was going to destroy the court, then he do it in a way that was hilarious (to him, at least). "More power" doesn't really seem to be his thing either, given the way he hands out various parlor tricks. Yeah, I would say gaining and consolidating power has never been Coyote's thing. Think about all of his stories... how quickly he takes on new responsibilities because he thinks they will amuse him only to abandon them just as quickly when he gets bored. The thing that continually does motivate Coyote is the ability to increase the chaos and confusion around him. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jan 8, 2014 20:18:50 GMT
He has no particular fondness for humans I agree with the rest, but I think Coyote might have a soft spot for the pinkies after all. I can't seem to find the page in Coyote Stories or The Great Secret, but I am sure that it was once said that Coyote was enthralled by humans to the point that he neglected the shadow men that he created. Edit: here is is> www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=975 |
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Post by eyemyself on Jan 8, 2014 20:24:50 GMT
He has no particular fondness for humans I agree with the rest, but I think Coyote might have a soft spot for the pinkies after all. I can't seem to find the page in Coyote Stories or The Great Secret, but I am sure that it was once said that Coyote was enthralled by humans to the point that he neglected the shadow men that he created. Edit: here is is> www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=975I guess I see a nuanced difference between fascination and fondness, but you have a point. Coyote does find humans intriguing enough to neglect his own creations when they fail to live up. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jan 8, 2014 22:04:41 GMT
This can only end well
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Post by SilverbackRon on Jan 9, 2014 2:14:50 GMT
I really don't see Coyote as wanting to destroy/conquer the Court. If that was what he desired, he could have easily done so when he found the terrible squabble long ago. Instead he split the Court away from his forest. He was just there for the lulz of powerful dog creatures that rained misery AND JOY on the humans there. Is he a stinker? oh yeah. Is he evil? That depends on your perspective I suppose. A trickster god isn't exactly a good guy by any stretch of the imagination, but typically, Chaotic Neutral if I may use that term. It probably isn't fun being on the recieving end of one of his meaner tricks. I suspect that he makes up his plans on the spur of the moment most of the time. However his interest in Annie is probably an exception. He is clearly grooming her for some purpose. Getting her to question the Court's motives is probably loads of fun for him. I am sure there is more behind it, but nothing destructive. Death and destruction doesn't seem like it would be very entertaining for him. |
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Post by fwip on Jan 9, 2014 3:41:45 GMT
I have a better tablet than kat Unless you have one of these I doubt it. Exactly! |
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Post by Daedalus on Jan 9, 2014 4:09:34 GMT
I have a better tablet than kat Unless you have one of these I doubt it. I'll bet Kat's wouldn't come with Windows 8 installed. Ergo, hers is better. QED. Also, just noticed the title of this thread describes how mysteries are handled in Gunnerkrigg. So much speculation, so many questions, so few answers  But the answers are always worth the wait. And hopefully, there's an answer to some Jeanne issues coming soon. |
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Post by Tacdud2 on Jan 9, 2014 4:31:29 GMT
Man. I missed a lot.
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Post by mp122984 on Jan 9, 2014 4:43:49 GMT
This is probably a dumb question, but what about using Annie's power to nuke the arrow where it lies or something?
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Post by warrl on Jan 9, 2014 4:48:37 GMT
This is probably a dumb question, but what about using Annie's power to nuke the arrow where it lies or something? Might possibly work if they knew exactly where it lies. But I think Kat also wants to know just what it does, and how. And torching it could make that more difficult. Annie (and the others) would, in addition, want to make sure to sever links in a fashion that does not cause pain to Jeanne or Mr. Jeanne's-Green. Torching the thing from a distance would make it hard to observe the effect and stop if things aren't going right. Worse, it might cause pain and NOT sever the links. |
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Post by mp122984 on Jan 9, 2014 4:50:00 GMT
This is probably a dumb question, but what about using Annie's power to nuke the arrow where it lies or something? Might possibly work if they knew exactly where it lies. But I think Kat also wants to know just what it does, and how. And torching it could make that more difficult. Annie (and the others) would, in addition, want to make sure to sever links in a fashion that does not cause pain to Jeanne or Mr. Jeanne's-Green. Torching the thing from a distance would make it hard to observe the effect and stop if things aren't going right. Worse, it might cause pain and NOT sever the links. Good points. Thanks for answering. |
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Post by The Anarch on Jan 9, 2014 5:19:06 GMT
This is probably a dumb question, but what about using Annie's power to nuke the arrow where it lies or something? They'd have to do it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Jan 9, 2014 6:21:03 GMT
This is probably a dumb question, but what about using Annie's power to nuke the arrow where it lies or something? They'd have to do it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Hey now, this is an emotional moment for all of us, I know that. But let's not make snap judgments, please. |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Jan 9, 2014 8:02:58 GMT
This is probably a dumb question, but what about using Annie's power to nuke the arrow where it lies or something? It is an interesting question. I think Annie would have a hard time because so far we haven't seen her be able to throw fire at a distance. Especially not enough to destroy a metal (possibly magic?) object. And would Jeanne be happy, since presumably the bones of her green man are pinned under it? The other problem is... it is underwater. Fire would have a hard time getting to the target. Also, we don't know if destroying it is enough. Perhaps they have to find a way to undo whatever it is doing. Maybe Kat will have to Reverse it's Polarity!However, I think we have the 3 girl team to do the job. Parley to keep Jeanne busy. Annie to etherically enter the water and lift out the arrow. Kat to figure out what to do to disarm it. That is my interpretation. |
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Post by arf on Jan 9, 2014 8:19:02 GMT
They'd have to do it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Hey now, this is an emotional moment for all of us, I know that. But let's not make snap judgments, please. "So they go down and nuke the device on the ground, barely escaping before the Annan waters erupt. ... only to be confronted by a wrathful Jeanne who has hitched a lift and is now bursting out of George's body. "Howling vengeance, she chases Annie around the warehouse. ... until, with a loud clunk, Kat re-appears, wearing a vestment of robo-angelic servo-mechanisms that was stored in the cold room. "There is a pause, broken by Kat intoning: "Get away from her, you bitch!" "Not a bit of this is derivative, of course." concludes Coyote. |
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Post by keef on Jan 9, 2014 15:01:12 GMT
The lot of you are so sharp you could cut a shadow of the floor.. Not kidding, reading this page I have nothing to add but: Annie seems uncharacteristically hesitant. Maybe she's trying to be control all the burning passion/rage that the fire-elemental side of her brings to the table. Plus, she's gotten into trouble at least 3 times now from not listening to other people or gallivanting off on her own. Could it possibly be...the fabled, the legendary- character developmentYes! I think that's a somewhat neglected part of the story so far. Could maybe use its own thread. |
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Post by goldenknots on Jan 10, 2014 1:00:43 GMT
I have a better tablet than kat Unless you have one of these I doubt it. That thing isn't a tablet, it's a box. From the specs page: Height 12.2 inches Width 20.6 inches Depth 12.6 inches |
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Post by Angry Individual on Jan 10, 2014 2:04:50 GMT
I fear for Parley's life. Even with all that confidence, she's still going against a very old spirit who clearly has experience and training to back it up. So... |
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Post by zimmyhoo on Jan 10, 2014 3:08:26 GMT
I fear for Parley's life. Even with all that confidence, she's still going against a very old spirit who clearly has experience and training to back it up. So... Hi! And I hope you're wrong. |
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