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Post by darlos9d on Dec 25, 2013 15:45:03 GMT
Yes robot, let's just blow a tiny incomplete limb out of proportion. It wasn't even remotely intelligent, man! The first of us to die a proper death... Does that mean that thing lived? It is interesting that they consider living tissue somehow more alive than silicon-based bodies. A little human bias rubbing off? Yeah its kinda messed up when the robots are pretty darn sapient, and yet they don't consider themselves alive. I think they came to the wrong conclusions when observing humans... Then again, that seems to be the way it always goes in fiction. Sigh. In light of this comic, Kat's earlier reaction of "eh, it was worth it" seems callous and inappropriate. Kat does not know the full implications of what she is doing. Reminds me of Annie's blundering around with Coyote and Ysengrin. In Kat's defense, who the heck would imagine the robots suddenly becoming weirdly religious over biotech? Especially since the robots being weirdly religious is, at this point, something only the robots seem aware of. "It's just science, and at least I learned something" is a perfectly reasonable position. |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Dec 25, 2013 16:07:04 GMT
Yeah its kinda messed up when the robots are pretty darn sapient, and yet they don't consider themselves alive. I think they came to the wrong conclusions when observing humans... Then again, that seems to be the way it always goes in fiction. Sigh. Unless Robot is looking to gain value in human eyes, not robot. "If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?" etc. |
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Post by darlos9d on Dec 25, 2013 16:10:29 GMT
Well okay, yeah, it's mostly Robot saying all this stuff. But the other robots are certainly listening.
If he's trying to gain value in human eyes then the argument should be "hey we're sapient, treat us like it," rather than "oh man we just aren't squishy and wet enough."
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Post by eyemyself on Dec 25, 2013 16:20:07 GMT
Interesting and irrelevant: The burial ground is the same patch where Kat dug up the worm she tried to feed to Cityface, which in turn led to her visiting Paz's lab where she had the idea for the wing design. I have a feeling that is probably actually very relevant. Robot was in pieces on her workbench at the time and might have observed this. In other news... sinister. Robot has always been a little off. My read is that his prophesying pre-dates meeting Annie and Kat and was the reason he was in the box when Annie found him the first time. I wonder if we will learn more about his history. On the issue of Robot's quest to become more like humans... anyone read Azimov's "Positronic Man"? |
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Post by prestidigititis on Dec 25, 2013 16:29:44 GMT
Well okay, yeah, it's mostly Robot saying all this stuff. But the other robots are certainly listening. If he's trying to gain value in human eyes then the argument should be "hey we're sapient, treat us like it," rather than "oh man we just aren't squishy and wet enough." "We're here! We're gears! Get used to it!" |
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Post by alpacalypse on Dec 25, 2013 17:05:17 GMT
I have a feeling that is probably actually very relevant. Robot was in pieces on her workbench at the time and might have observed this. In other news... sinister. Robot has always been a little off. My read is that his prophesying pre-dates meeting Annie and Kat and was the reason he was in the box when Annie found him the first time. I wonder if we will learn more about his history. On the issue of Robot's quest to become more like humans... anyone read Azimov's "Positronic Man"? Yes, I believe they went over this when the robot secret police and their definitely not a secret base captured Robot. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1143 They mentioned that he had been incarcerated prior to Annie finding him and that he was now up to his "old tricks" of spreading information and rumor, which was him predicting the coming of Kat and her radical changes to robot kind. I've kinda feared the direction that Robot has been going with this, and with the introduction of Paz into Kat's life, I think her work will begin to fall off and that there will become tension between the robots and with Kat. OR Kat will be able to further her creations freshly inspired by Paz (she did come up with the bird wing partly thanks to her) and then create some pseudo organic robot, and then some stuff happens with Paz and the Robots. Who knows. Tom might. |
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Post by nightwind on Dec 25, 2013 17:15:26 GMT
In light of this comic, Kat's earlier reaction of "eh, it was worth it" seems callous and inappropriate. That's because for Kat it's "only" a science project. She still doesn't comprehend what she is becoming, thanks to Robot's efforts, to robotkind. I worry about that. And of course Robot is blowing this way outta proportion to further his agenda. That wing was only a tiny part of a robot and not even had a CPU. When his old body was made into paperclips it was no big deal, but that wing is? |
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Post by thshrkpnchr on Dec 25, 2013 17:16:49 GMT
The first of us to die a proper death... Does that mean that thing lived? Since this was the first robotic part to be grown rather than built, I would say yes. And clearly Robot and his disciples also think so. Also once the robot society discovered she was working on growing robots, that was when they marked her workshop with the sign of the creator. She can give life, and take it away. And now literally create robotic life. Yes, I say she is well on her way to a promotion from Angel to Goddess first class. Ah, when I said 'lived' then, I was meaning for it to be like 'sapient, or at least sentient, so that Robot can refer to it as "one of us"' |
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Post by philman on Dec 25, 2013 17:22:40 GMT
If Tom planned the start of the Robo religion on christmasday all along, he is an even greater genius then I thought. Surly would be better timed for Easter? |
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Post by goldenknots on Dec 25, 2013 17:30:15 GMT
In other news... sinister. Robot has always been a little off. My read is that his prophesying pre-dates meeting Annie and Kat and was the reason he was in the box when Annie found him the first time. I wonder if we will learn more about his history. I'd like to know where the extra part came from. Seems like a good candidate for why he's "a little off". |
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Post by cu on Dec 25, 2013 17:44:22 GMT
This charred little wing is the first of us to die a proper death. His name is Robert Paulson.
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Post by keef on Dec 25, 2013 17:52:56 GMT
Also, I wonder where Shadow is...I would think he and Robot would be found in the same place. Next page, watching from a distance, looking sad. I mostly worry the robots might think Paz killed it :S I agree, and someone else already noticed, what if they see Paz as an obstacle. Religious fanatics usually have a lack of patience with obstacles. The first of us to die a proper death... Does that mean that thing lived? Since this was the first robotic part to be grown rather than built, I would say yes. Yes, I say she is well on her way to a promotion from Angel to Goddess first class. In the Gunnerverse belief shapes Gods. Some robots are believers now, so there must be a god(dess). Interesting and irrelevant: The burial ground is the same patch where Kat dug up the worm she tried to feed to Cityface, which in turn led to her visiting Paz's lab where she had the idea for the wing design. I have a feeling that is probably actually very relevant. Robot was in pieces on her workbench at the time and might have observed this. They are going to build their first temple there.. Hadn't thought of that possibility, I always thought he was to unruly in the eyes of the other robots, but that would explain a lot. Yes, but Asimov's robots are different from the courts, the three laws make them a lot less independent. Anyway, I loved Asimov's books for his ideas, not his writing, and certainly not his characters. Robot can still turn out to be the true villain of the story or he can be "redeemed" by his love for Shadow. Not the kind of plot twist you would expect from Asimov. |
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Post by zimmyhoo on Dec 25, 2013 17:58:29 GMT
Robot can still turn out to be the true villain of the story or he can be "redeemed" by his love for Shadow.
Nah, he isn't the final villain. But he may bring about some serious rifts, and will surely help elevate our little Godess-to-be. |
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Post by darlos9d on Dec 25, 2013 18:01:45 GMT
Since this was the first robotic part to be grown rather than built, I would say yes. Yes, I say she is well on her way to a promotion from Angel to Goddess first class. In the Gunnerverse belief shapes Gods. Some robots are believers now, so there must be a god(dess). It's funny then, since if they have what it takes to create a god through belief, doesn't that prove that they're already equivalent to humans? It kinda defeats its own point, haha. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Dec 25, 2013 18:22:26 GMT
Well okay, yeah, it's mostly Robot saying all this stuff. But the other robots are certainly listening. If he's trying to gain value in human eyes then the argument should be "hey we're sapient, treat us like it," rather than "oh man we just aren't squishy and wet enough." "We're here! We're gears! Get used to it!" Armed robots don't get bashed!  |
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Post by The Anarch on Dec 25, 2013 18:23:13 GMT
This charred little wing is the first of us to die a proper death. His name is Robert Paulson. |
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Post by nero on Dec 25, 2013 19:57:09 GMT
This is the first death of these "robot cells" and its just the first step in Robot's goal. He might be hoping to see a living robot body that can house or be developed with a conscience.
Kat seemed liked she wanted to improve the body structure of the robots because she saw the details that Diego gave the early ones.
She doesn't know the extent of this Angel title that Robot gave her. She'll probably freak out from this big responsibility but I hope she'll respect their need for a burial.
Hope to see Shadow bringing flowers.
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Post by ctso74 on Dec 25, 2013 20:16:43 GMT
In the Gunnerverse belief shapes Gods. Some robots are believers now, so there must be a god(dess). I wonder, if it's the belief of etheric beings that shape gods. Maybe, that's why the development of a growing robot is so important. They're currently high-tech golems; a taste of the etheric in their circuits, but no true ether existence. Kat's new technology could be their path to true power, in the GC sense. Of course, that reopens the question: What are the Tic-Tocs? |
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Post by cu on Dec 25, 2013 20:55:43 GMT
Of course, that reopens the question: What are the Tic-Tocs? Many signs point at Kat acquiring Goddess status via adoration from her future etheric robots. As a goddess she gets retcon powers like Jones, so she goes to the past and creates the Tic-Tocs (Tic-Tocs, TT, Time Travel) so one of them can save Annie when she falls from the bridge. :leaves Tom's notes back on the desk and exits quietly through the same window he used to break in: |
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Post by Toloc on Dec 25, 2013 21:06:17 GMT
According to Coyote gods are created when human mind enter the ether upon death. Therefore for Kat to become a god a conscience that believes in Kat's godhood needs to die.
Coyote says that this ability is exclusive to humans. If he is right remains to be seen.
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Post by SilverbackRon on Dec 25, 2013 21:40:19 GMT
According to Coyote gods are created when human mind enter the ether upon death. Therefore for Kat to become a god a conscience that believes in Kat's godhood needs to die. Coyote says that this ability is exclusive to humans. If he is right remains to be seen. This is true, until Kat creates another biological race (organic robots) capable of worship. So Coyote was correct when he said it, but he does not know the future. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Dec 25, 2013 22:27:19 GMT
According to Coyote gods are created when human mind enter the ether upon death. Therefore for Kat to become a god a conscience that believes in Kat's godhood needs to die. Coyote says that this ability is exclusive to humans. If he is right remains to be seen. This is true, until Kat creates another biological race (organic robots) capable of worship. So Coyote was correct when he said it, but he does not know the future. Hmm... this is troubling, but you are right. Somebody has to die believing Kat is a god for it to come true. I hope Tom doesn't kill off Robot... |
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Post by Per on Dec 25, 2013 22:33:34 GMT
so she goes to the past and creates the Tic-Tocs (Tic-Tocs, TT, Time Travel) so one of them can save Annie when she falls from the bridge. ... Using knowledge from a previous timeline where Annie did die on the bridge? And by changing her own past, making sure Kat-2 will not become exactly herself? But Kat-1 is still hanging around, so there are two Kats, which is of little use to Kat-1, so she's already killed Kat-2 and taken her place, and only Zimmy sees this? |
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Post by keef on Dec 25, 2013 22:35:55 GMT
This is true, until Kat creates another biological race (organic robots) capable of worship. So Coyote was correct when he said it, but he does not know the future. Hmm... this is troubling, but you are right. Somebody has to die believing Kat is a god for it to come true. I hope Tom doesn't kill off Robot... So who would be the first robot to have an organic body? |
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Post by Elysium on Dec 25, 2013 22:38:03 GMT
... Using knowledge from a previous timeline where Annie did die on the bridge? And by changing her own past, making sure Kat-2 will not become exactly herself? But Kat-1 is still hanging around, so there are two Kats, which is of little use to Kat-1, so she's already killed Kat-2 and taken her place, and only Zimmy sees this? I prefer the Yoko Tsuno logic of time travel, where the present is already a result of the protagonist changing the past |
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Post by Per on Dec 25, 2013 22:54:42 GMT
I prefer the Yoko Tsuno logic of time travel, where the present is already a result of the protagonist changing the past It isn't very logical, though. If Kat sees Annie being rescued by Tic-Tocs, then obviously there's no reason for her to go back and create the Tic-Tocs. They were already there. Even if she learns later that it seems she was present in the past and created the Tic-Tocs, there's still no actual reason for her to go back and do it. It already happened. (Usually in stories all this is handwaved with coincidences and character ignorance.) |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Dec 25, 2013 23:05:56 GMT
Hmm... this is troubling, but you are right. Somebody has to die believing Kat is a god for it to come true. I hope Tom doesn't kill off Robot... So who would be the first robot to have an organic body? Robot, I am sure. But that doesn't mean he will be the only one, just the first. From there it follows that it also doesn't mean he has to be the first organic-body robot to die. ( hopefully!) |
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Post by Gotolei on Dec 25, 2013 23:09:11 GMT
So who would be the first robot to have an organic body? Robot, I am sure. But that doesn't mean he will be the only one, just the first. From there it follows that it also doesn't mean he has to be the first organic-body robot to die. ( hopefully!) I wonder how Kat is going about this? Might it be some sort of trial-and-error thing that might turn out a number of deceased robots with (possibly flawed?) figments of logic, or has she been working out some method of full-on intelligence for a while? Or will she copy from Diego's code somehow? |
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Post by GK Sierra on Dec 25, 2013 23:39:56 GMT
Hmm... this is troubling, but you are right. Somebody has to die believing Kat is a god for it to come true. I hope Tom doesn't kill off Robot... So who would be the first robot to have an organic body? Well, she did transplant Robot from one body to another. There's nothing to say she couldn't port him over to an even newer bio-mechanical model. I think the machines are a little confused though. They are already beings with souls, or so it seems. I mean, Zimmy saw an angel when she looked at Kat. I take that to mean there is already some kind of effect happening from the way the ether works, as machines are getting scrapped all the time- and they have already plainly stated that they feel emotions like fear and love. ...And now that I think about it, Paz causing Kat to get flustered and screw up the experiment might have been her biggest contribution to the plot so far. That would be 100% Tom- having cutesy young love subplot usher in a huge scientific breakthrough/ascendancy to godhood. |
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Post by keef on Dec 26, 2013 0:26:23 GMT
So who would be the first robot to have an organic body? Well, she did transplant Robot from one body to another. They have to belief when they die? The guard in the powerstation died (beyond repair). What if he had been a follower of Robot. Still there is no psychopomp for robots. Yes, I told you the guy is a genius. And Paz might be in danger. |
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The first of us to die a proper death... Does that mean that thing lived? It is interesting that they consider living tissue somehow more alive than silicon-based bodies. A little human bias rubbing off?
Kat does not know the full implications of what she is doing.
