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Post by thedoctor on Dec 12, 2013 5:03:14 GMT
I think that between them, Annie, Kat, Robot, and Shadow (and the others in their circle) will bring about a new way for the Court and the Forest to relate to each other. Right now, the powers-that-be on either side appear to hold each other in contempt, Court vs Forest, magic vs technology, Donny and Anja being outliers (maybe there are more?). I personally think endgame is about turning that 'versus' into an 'and' while still leaving separate entities. And maaaaybe Robot tricks Kat into connecting the robots to the ether (the crackier theories are my favorite). Then we are in agreement! (http://gunnerkrigg.proboards.com/post/93199/thread) |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Dec 12, 2013 5:36:15 GMT
Except I don't think it'll be a united entity and I'd like it if a larger part of the cast is involved, but for the most part, yup! Agreed.
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Post by thedoctor on Dec 12, 2013 11:01:16 GMT
Except I don't think it'll be a united entity and I'd like it if a larger part of the cast is involved, but for the most part, yup! Agreed. Fair enough. Also, I REALLY like your sig; that's a perfect thing to say about bureaucracy and paperwork. |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 25, 2013 8:26:54 GMT
In light of today's comic, any discussion to be made on the Robot Religion or the OP? This seemed the appropriate thread, hence the necropost.
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Post by nightwind on Dec 25, 2013 8:47:18 GMT
You know what I wonder? Robot was deactivated and hidden by the other robots because they thought he was weird. Chances are he preached some gospel even before Kat came along. I'd like to know what he said that freaked the other robots out.
That may help us understand if he's a real prophet or a charlatan who knows to manipulate the (robot) masses.
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 25, 2013 8:54:13 GMT
You know what I wonder? Robot was deactivated and hidden by the other robots because they thought he was weird. Chances are he preached some gospel even before Kat came along. I'd like to know what he said that freaked the other robots out. That may help us understand if he's a real prophet or a charlatan who knows to manipulate the (robot) masses. There's also the comment Rey made about how many renegade robot chips there were way back when. Could those have been his prior followers, or the robots following his teachings when he was first activated? |
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freeman
Full Member
That 70's Coyote!
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Post by freeman on Dec 25, 2013 22:43:03 GMT
What comes to Kat's angelhood, there is a very important hint in chapter 41 that the robots have a society deeper than what is known with mythology and folklore. That is when one of the seraphs say: "just because she is beautiful and angelic in appearance does not mean she is the real angel". Someone called S13 as a "robot jesus", but in this light "John the baptist" may seem more appropriate.
Apart from that, I want to bring into the discussion a crusial factor: are the current court robots pre or post singularity?
Please note that this does not mean "smarter than a human", only "capable of building a better version of itself". That is, have the robots been degenerating (getting mechanically simpler and stupider) since the "golem generation", or slowly improving ever since? Personally I'd vote for improving, as the revitalised 1st generation robot commented the "elegant desing" of the modern robots.
Then again there are opposing points, like seraph models having a big ON/OFF buttons on their heads and the general apparent stupidity and lots of "junk code", like obsession for Jeanne. Clearly the robots take a some sort of randomized evolutionary approach in their development instead of relying more heavily on reasoning. Just look the robot hauler squad. Evolution, how ever also guarantees that too weak individuals don't end up as basis of new models, so the degradation must stop and maybe revert at some point. Maybe the robots are getting more human even if their general capability for reasoning degrades?
Kat's position doesn't seem to depend very much of this. As long as the robots are not on the brink of singularity or civil war, the Court probably doesn't see reason to follow too closely what's up in the robot society. The Court as whole wont probably realize what has happened until the first robot that has been programmed by Kat emerges. For now she's just a promising kid with interest in mechanics, robotics particular, just like her genetic profile suggests; maybe some day she can be employed to continue her mother's work of resolving the lost knowledge of robot programming.
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Post by GK Sierra on Dec 25, 2013 23:49:55 GMT
I don't know if they're at the level of improving themselves yet. I think human designers in the Court still provide specifications for the models they need for certain tasks. I agree, it's kind of weird that the Court hasn't stepped in at this point. They clearly have dissent brewing in the ranks, and it is pretty obvious to see, which leaves two options: 1)The Court has only a few people working robot support, and mostly on production, deployment and software. They don't keep tabs on what the robots are doing at each moment, they only give them rules to follow and a job to do, and then step back until there is a problem. 2)The Court knows full well, and is watching the whole experiment unfold. They're trying to turn Kat into the god they've been seeking to become for hundreds of years. |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Dec 26, 2013 0:35:46 GMT
2)The Court knows full well, and is watching the whole experiment unfold. They're trying to turn Kat into the god they've been seeking to become for hundreds of years. Oh, I like this idea. So many ways it can all go terribly, horribly, wonderfully wrong. |
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Post by zimmyhoo on Dec 26, 2013 3:38:56 GMT
2)The Court knows full well, and is watching the whole experiment unfold. They're trying to turn Kat into the god they've been seeking to become for hundreds of years. This. I'm pretty darn sure that you've hit the metaphorical nail on the metaphorical head. |
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Post by Gotolei on Dec 26, 2013 4:51:36 GMT
Was going to post this to wild spec, but it fits better here.
Can Reynardine smell ether on people? Perhaps if/while Kat is going through her robogod transformation thing, might we see Reynardine start to act strangely around her as the etheric energy slowly builds on?
How would this work anyway? An etheric being slowly taking form, then merges with Kat to make shiny stuff? Or would it be slow and steady, with her noticing random changes as time goes on until the day she realizes "holy snap I think the robots made me into a god" ?
Speaking of which, should we expect an Alistair-style transformation sequence?
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fishtie
Full Member
...I've learned to be amazed first and ask questions later.
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Post by fishtie on Dec 26, 2013 7:00:33 GMT
1)The Court has only a few people working robot support, and mostly on production, deployment and software. They don't keep tabs on what the robots are doing at each moment, they only give them rules to follow and a job to do, and then step back until there is a problem. I think the evidence of robot specific locations; places that only robots can go; as well as their brazen autonomy; internal security dealing with discipline, a king; suggests that the court currently has no robot support. That as long as the robots do their jobs they are mostly ignored. Some of the early disregard for robots also hints at a similar mindset by the staff. Was going to post this to wild spec, but it fits better here. Can Reynardine smell ether on people? Perhaps if/while Kat is going through her robogod transformation thing, might we see Reynardine start to act strangely around her as the etheric energy slowly builds on? How would this work anyway? An etheric being slowly taking form, then merges with Kat to make shiny stuff? Or would it be slow and steady, with her noticing random changes as time goes on until the day she realizes "holy snap I think the robots made me into a god" ? Speaking of which, should we expect an Alistair-style transformation sequence? Well all previous etheric creatures seem to have their bright glowy 'etheric bodies' that Annie can see with her blinker stone. It's been strongly implied that etheric creatures see this at will or even all the time. |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 26, 2013 15:37:18 GMT
I don't know if they're at the level of improving themselves yet. I think human designers in the Court still provide specifications for the models they need for certain tasks. I agree, it's kind of weird that the Court hasn't stepped in at this point. They clearly have dissent brewing in the ranks, and it is pretty obvious to see, which leaves two options: 1)The Court has only a few people working robot support, and mostly on production, deployment and software. They don't keep tabs on what the robots are doing at each moment, they only give them rules to follow and a job to do, and then step back until there is a problem. 2)The Court knows full well, and is watching the whole experiment unfold. They're trying to turn Kat into the god they've been seeking to become for hundreds of years. Why not both? People have pointed out strong evidence for both of these options, and they're not mutually exclusive (more or less). |
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Post by keef on Dec 26, 2013 17:06:51 GMT
I don't know if they're at the level of improving themselves yet. I think human designers in the Court still provide specifications for the models they need for certain tasks. : "When did Diego start building robots that could build robots? After he died the robots figured it out on their own" Does that not mean they design themselves? I guess the Court leaves robot design and building to the robots. They ask them to do a job and forget about it. I don't think there are many people at the Court anyway. Again, I think it's the robots (seraphs) who deal with that. Great theory! Don't belief it though  |
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Post by GK Sierra on Dec 26, 2013 18:04:14 GMT
Word of Tom: "When did Diego start building robots that could build robots? After he died the robots figured it out on their own" Does that not mean they design themselves? It does indeed. It also means I was too lazy to look up WoT like a proper wild speculator. So they are building themselves... That would explain why all the new ones look like cheap copies of Diego's. Apparently they aren't too good at design. Great theory! Don't belief it though   |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 26, 2013 19:39:03 GMT
Word of Tom: "When did Diego start building robots that could build robots? After he died the robots figured it out on their own" Does that not mean they design themselves? It does indeed. It also means I was too lazy to look up WoT like a proper wild speculator. So they are building themselves... That would explain why all the new ones look like cheap copies of Diego's. Apparently they aren't too good at design. They did a pretty good job. I'd certainly be happy if I could build a robot like that, even without the strong AI. The difference may be that they are less ornate. The old robot said that they had elegant designs (instead of how fancy Diego's robots were). |
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Post by GK Sierra on Dec 26, 2013 20:28:16 GMT
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Post by yingandyang on Dec 27, 2013 1:45:58 GMT
This theory is very, very interesting and I think I can further the proof (I don't know if anyone else has said this), but notice at the end of what I like to call "seasons" they show a picture of Annie and Kat on two sides, one the court and science, the other the forest. What if this is hinting at what shall become Kat taking over the court and Annie becoming leader of the forest?
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 27, 2013 2:15:21 GMT
This theory is very, very interesting and I think I can further the proof (I don't know if anyone else has said this), but notice at the end of what I like to call "seasons" they show a picture of Annie and Kat on two sides, one the court and science, the other the forest. What if this is hinting at what shall become Kat taking over the court and Annie becoming leader of the forest? The possibility of them taking leadership has been mentioned, but good catch with the treatise page! |
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Post by zimmyhoo on Dec 27, 2013 3:18:21 GMT
This theory is very, very interesting and I think I can further the proof (I don't know if anyone else has said this), but notice at the end of what I like to call "seasons" they show a picture of Annie and Kat on two sides, one the court and science, the other the forest. What if this is hinting at what shall become Kat taking over the court and Annie becoming leader of the forest? Notice that in T5, Annie's hair is being 'grabbed' by bony-like stuff, and in T4, there's vines wrapping around her. I'd say she's going to be ensnared by the forest, not leading it. |
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Post by yingandyang on Dec 27, 2013 3:33:16 GMT
This theory is very, very interesting and I think I can further the proof (I don't know if anyone else has said this), but notice at the end of what I like to call "seasons" they show a picture of Annie and Kat on two sides, one the court and science, the other the forest. What if this is hinting at what shall become Kat taking over the court and Annie becoming leader of the forest? Notice that in T5, Annie's hair is being 'grabbed' by bony-like stuff, and in T4, there's vines wrapping around her. I'd say she's going to be ensnared by the forest, not leading it. I have a feeling that Annie at first will bend to the cycotes (I'm sorry about spelling) will but she will take hold of him and then lead the forest to both help the court (that at her taking power either Kat will be leading or will be very powerful) and the forest. Also everything I just said there is just me guessing at what will happen |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 27, 2013 4:50:01 GMT
Putting this here, because it pertains to the OP. Skimming the earlier thread, half-asleep while doing it, I noticed someone brought up the old theory on Kat time-travel retroactively creating the Tick-Tocks. Well, something else occurred to me... What if Robot is the time-traveler? He could have traveled to the past to see the mythical Angel which uplifted the robot race. It would explain how he knew it would happen ahead of time. The religion he's preaching is merely the one he was raised with. And that "extra part" could be his real CPU, whereas the rest of the chip is merely an adapter allowing him to interface with "ancient" technology. Or maybe it's the other way around, and the extra part is an ethericly-powered "Oracle" module... |
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Post by zimmyzims on Dec 28, 2013 13:37:45 GMT
This theory is very, very interesting and I think I can further the proof (I don't know if anyone else has said this), but notice at the end of what I like to call "seasons" they show a picture of Annie and Kat on two sides, one the court and science, the other the forest. What if this is hinting at what shall become Kat taking over the court and Annie becoming leader of the forest? The possibility of them taking leadership has been mentioned, but good catch with the treatise page! In fact, it has been mentioned, with a reference to the treatise page. But we can't expect every now participant of a thread to read it through. In any event, these last two pages revive the hope for the prophecy to be true. Now it's time to give a Christmas present to Tom and either order something or donate money. I am required to do that (you all probably already have). |
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Post by eyemyself on Dec 28, 2013 14:37:38 GMT
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 28, 2013 21:04:55 GMT
Always good to have a concrete resolution to a question. |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 29, 2013 5:56:08 GMT
Hey, I was looking through the Wiki, and I stumbled upon this relevant Word of Tom:
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Post by nightwind on Dec 29, 2013 8:27:01 GMT
Very interesting. Assuming the piles of meat and bone in the comic have souls (since that's what goes into the ether) that would mean the robots do too - or are at least capable of housing one.
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freeman
Full Member
That 70's Coyote!
Posts: 242
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Post by freeman on Dec 29, 2013 12:39:35 GMT
Very interesting. Assuming the piles of meat and bone in the comic have souls (since that's what goes into the ether) that would mean the robots do too - or are at least capable of housing one. I think the load bearing idea here is that the soul is hereditary. Hence, the first generation of robots did not have souls, so can't have the rest. From that it could even be conclude that the Court robots are not technically living beings, they just mimic it very realistically, yet subjectively they are pretty alive, which is a shit deal for them. This may be what S13 meant with its preaching about proper death - to be able to live re quires the ability to die (saa also: Jones). The Zimmy vision in Divine could also be interpreted that somehow Kat will be the one to give the robots a soul, or let us call it "etherical presence", which makes them subject to psychopompal harvesting equaling the proper death. That would not nullify her becoming the robot psychopomp though. I wonder if the glass-eyed men have a psychopomp, being also unnaturally conceived of sorts. |
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Post by lordofpotatoes on Dec 29, 2013 14:06:41 GMT
Hey, I was looking through the Wiki, and I stumbled upon this relevant Word of Tom: "We do not deal in electrical appliances. " I've had a theory before regarding these things: gunnerkrigg.proboards.com/post/80437But I don't REALLY believe she was a robot, but I have touched upon the subject of robo-souls and we need to explore it deeper. |
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Post by eyemyself on Dec 29, 2013 14:54:31 GMT
I was under the impression from what Muut said that Jeanne crossing the river had more to do with Annie being there than with the Tic Toc. Also, I'm pretty sure that the device Steadman used to shoot Jeanne's green paramour is what is binding her ghost to this world.
Has Tom ever actually used the word "soul" in the comic? He has referred to "spirit" but I don't recall him using the word "soul".
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