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Post by Señor Goose on Aug 14, 2013 7:21:27 GMT
Born and brought up here, and doesn't even seem to speak her mother's Spanish (otherwise surely she would speak it with Paz?) I'd say all British. Living in Britain doesn't suddenly make you British, does it? |
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Post by sidhekin on Aug 14, 2013 8:31:53 GMT
Of course not! Sheesh!
It takes a citizenship.
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 14, 2013 15:44:21 GMT
Born and brought up here, and doesn't even seem to speak her mother's Spanish (otherwise surely she would speak it with Paz?) I'd say all British. Living in Britain doesn't suddenly make you British, does it? No, but if you were raised there and you identify with it's culture, I would call you British, just like I would call a family that emigrated from Mexico to the US Americans, or an African family that moved to Paris, French. It's just polite to assume that because they came here and they are planning to stay permanently, they are a part of the nation and it's society. Going around asking everybody what their citizenship status is so that you can call them by the "proper" nationality would be both rude and incredibly awkward. |
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Post by The Anarch on Aug 14, 2013 16:09:35 GMT
Man, can't we all just be people?
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Post by Per on Aug 14, 2013 16:26:20 GMT
What if someone self-identifies as a mineral though
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Post by The Anarch on Aug 14, 2013 16:31:12 GMT
Ah, negative. I am a meat popsicle.
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 14, 2013 17:34:59 GMT
Man, can't we all just be people?"Hey, you have ten fingers, I have ten fingers, let's be friends. We'll make rules and slogans. Then if we find someone with nine fingers, we can beat the crap out of them." —Georgia Lass on the topic of human contact. What if someone self-identifies as a mineral though I am a mineral otherkin. I was a chunk of basaltic marble in a past life. NOBODY UNDERSTANDS ME  |
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Post by sidhekin on Aug 14, 2013 18:08:04 GMT
Check with Jones; she might have some insight.
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Post by The Anarch on Aug 14, 2013 18:27:28 GMT
Every time I see the title of this thread, I start thinking "nobody's gonna break-ah my stride, nobody's gonna slow me down, oh no, I got to keep on movin'". |
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 14, 2013 19:11:38 GMT
The 80's were funny in hindsight, but at the time it was kind of terrifying. All those magenta polka dots...  |
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Post by Per on Aug 14, 2013 20:42:52 GMT
I... have no idea what that image is supposed to say.
I CHEW A SANDWICH IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 14, 2013 20:47:30 GMT
I... have no idea what that image is supposed to say. I CHEW A SANDWICH IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION This cheerful young man is bobbing his head in time to the groovy beats. He also happens to be enjoying a turkey on rye. I HOPE THAT IS OKAY DANCING IS MESSY SOMETIMES THERE WILL BE CRUMBS BUT I HAVE A DUSTPAN IN THE CORNER |
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Post by The Anarch on Aug 14, 2013 20:51:50 GMT
Man, I loved the 80's. The hair was big and the men wore pastels.
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Post by Señor Goose on Aug 15, 2013 7:45:33 GMT
Living in Britain doesn't suddenly make you British, does it? No, but if you were raised there and you identify with it's culture, I would call you British, just like I would call a family that emigrated from Mexico to the US Americans, or an African family that moved to Paris, French. It's just polite to assume that because they came here and they are planning to stay permanently, they are a part of the nation and it's society. Shit, I typed this whole essay about how moving to a country makes you adapt their culture and it affects your descendants, and then I realized there was a difference in what we were talking about. Culturally speaking, Kat can be called British. Ancestrally though, half-British (specifically Scottish) and half-Roma. |
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Post by legion on Aug 15, 2013 8:19:24 GMT
"British" is not an ethnicity though; it is a term for the citizenship of people who belong to the UK, whether they be English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Jamaican, Pakistani, Roma, or what have you.
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Post by sidhekin on Aug 15, 2013 9:02:43 GMT
Rambling on ...
I guess you could say British is a historic ethnicity, today continued in the Welsh and Breton ethnicities, or even lump those two together in a more general ethnicity, British.
Even so, you could not say Kat is half-British: Ethnically, the Scottish are Gaelic, not British.
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Post by gradiant on Aug 15, 2013 12:51:24 GMT
There's a difference between the historical usage of British(Roman term for proto-Welsh) and the modern usage of British(one who lives on the island of Great Britain). It's the same difference as between a New Yorker and an Iroquois.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 13:33:21 GMT
In that case, »one who lives on the island of Britain« is pretty much the Roman definition of »British« as well. It's just the inhabitants who change. Ethnicity is a rather murky concept.
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Post by legion on Aug 15, 2013 15:25:03 GMT
Rambling on ... I guess you could say British is a historic ethnicity, today continued in the Welsh and Breton ethnicities, or even lump those two together in a more general ethnicity, British. Even so, you could not say Kat is half-British: Ethnically, the Scottish are Gaelic, not British. I think the proper term for non-Gaelic insular Celts is "Brittonic". |
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Post by philman on Aug 15, 2013 17:02:33 GMT
As a Brit, given all the invasions and immigration over the years, I would assume it is impossible to find one without some non-british ancestry in there somewhere anyway. Vikings, Saxons, Normans, not to mention the fact that Britain seems to have been a haven for peoples exiled or fleeing from various european wars over the centuries. I know we can trace my dad's family back to fleeing France after the revolution anyway.
If you're first generation, then it is more complicated, if you're second generation (such as Kat) most non-BNP people would call you british (with xxx parents), if you're 3rd+ then I don't think anyone can argue anything else!
I think people in the US are far more into calling themselves 'Polish' for example, even if your ancestors left Poland 100+ years ago. In Britain the only time someone would do that was during the World Cup or something similar.
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 15, 2013 17:19:43 GMT
I think people in the US are far more into calling themselves 'Polish' for example, even if your ancestors left Poland 100+ years ago. In Britain the only time someone would do that was during the World Cup or something similar. Generally there's two types of this. On one end of the spectrum you have college students talking up their 1/16th Cherokee heritage just to have something to talk about, and then on the other end you have recently arrived families stressing the old country in an attempt to make sure their kids don't go totally USA! USA! USA! in the first generation and loose all of their previous culture. (It usually doesn't work.) |
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Post by freeformline on Aug 16, 2013 5:38:34 GMT
I think people in the US are far more into calling themselves 'Polish' for example, even if your ancestors left Poland 100+ years ago. In Britain the only time someone would do that was during the World Cup or something similar. Generally there's two types of this. On one end of the spectrum you have college students talking up their 1/16th Cherokee heritage just to have something to talk about, and then on the other end you have recently arrived families stressing the old country in an attempt to make sure their kids don't go totally USA! USA! USA! in the first generation and loose all of their previous culture. (It usually doesn't work.) Ah yes, the old "one sixteenth Indian!" I'm one of those folk, so have a joke! What do you call sixty-four Cherokee lined up in a row? A whole Indian! To be honest, I'm actually with North; things would just be easier if we were not so hung up on ethnicity and nationality, but I suspect it will be a long time before we manage anything close to that. I don't even think space colonization would do the trick. Given the richness of his characters' backgrounds, it's actually kind of nice that Tom has left racial commentary out of his comic. |
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Post by The Anarch on Aug 16, 2013 6:24:50 GMT
I don't even think space colonization would do the trick. Damn Lunarians, Martians, and Alpha Centaurians! If they were so all-fire ready to leave Earth, why the heck do they keep coming back to take all the good jobs?! |
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 16, 2013 7:00:47 GMT
Generally there's two types of this. On one end of the spectrum you have college students talking up their 1/16th Cherokee heritage just to have something to talk about, and then on the other end you have recently arrived families stressing the old country in an attempt to make sure their kids don't go totally USA! USA! USA! in the first generation and loose all of their previous culture. (It usually doesn't work.) Ah yes, the old "one sixteenth Indian!" I'm one of those folk, so have a joke! What do you call sixty-four Cherokee lined up in a row? A whole Indian! To be honest, I'm actually with North; things would just be easier if we were not so hung up on ethnicity and nationality, but I suspect it will be a long time before we manage anything close to that. I don't even think space colonization would do the trick. Given the richness of his characters' backgrounds, it's actually kind of nice that Tom has left racial commentary out of his comic. Yeah, plenty of that crap going around in real life without addressing it in what is nominally a children's story. |
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Post by Señor Goose on Aug 16, 2013 7:10:18 GMT
Christ, what have I done!
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Post by legion on Aug 16, 2013 10:54:51 GMT
To be honest, I'm actually with North; things would just be easier if we were not so hung up on ethnicity and nationality We would just have conflicts based on other group divisions (religion, political party, hair color, favorite football team…) Identification within a group and in contrast with other groups is part of how humans build their identity. We can learn to be civil about the whole ordeal (maybe), but I don't see it disappearing anytime in the next millenium. |
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Post by snipertom on Aug 16, 2013 11:59:54 GMT
Born and brought up here, and doesn't even seem to speak her mother's Spanish (otherwise surely she would speak it with Paz?) I'd say all British. Britain is a multicultural country of immigrants and has been for millennia... which explains the English language  When I went & explored I was amazed at how much less I stood out there than in Australia :/ - here (as opposed to NZ for example) I am seen as Sri Lankan first and Australian second. Or maybe Sri Lankan first, NZ & HK second and Australian last. There are many good Australians who are very open-minded- all the Aus dudes here are friggin fantastic & I love seeing you all her - but also a lot of people who are still stuck in a White Australia attitude who identify with a fictional England that never existed. Actually many people in the Commonwealth (everywhere I've lived!) have an idea of this quaint ye olde England which is completely Anglo-Celtic and completely conservative and monarchic and far from the truth. I remember one interesting fact about the UK being that 1/5 'white' people have an African recent ancestor! Just goes to show just how mixed up we humans really are  . |
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 16, 2013 16:03:39 GMT
Born and brought up here, and doesn't even seem to speak her mother's Spanish (otherwise surely she would speak it with Paz?) I'd say all British. Britain is a multicultural country of immigrants and has been for millennia... which explains the English language When I went & explored I was amazed at how much less I stood out there than in Australia :/ - here (as opposed to NZ for example) I am seen as Sri Lankan first and Australian second. Or maybe Sri Lankan first, NZ & HK second and Australian last. There are many good Australians who are very open-minded- all the Aus dudes here are friggin fantastic & I love seeing you all her - but also a lot of people who are still stuck in a White Australia attitude who identify with a fictional England that never existed. Actually many people in the Commonwealth (everywhere I've lived!) have an idea of this quaint ye olde England which is completely Anglo-Celtic and completely conservative and monarchic and far from the truth. I remember one interesting fact about the UK being that 1/5 'white' people have an African recent ancestor! Just goes to show just how mixed up we humans really are . I was also surprised by this when I first began to travel. For example, in France I had an African guy tell me that when he comes to America, people think of him French because of his accent, but when he comes back to France he is considered African first and French second. That threw me for a loop. People like the EDL people make me chuckle. If you wanted Britain to remain lily-white you shouldn't have gone out and conquered most of the known world. First mistake right there. To be honest, I'm actually with North; things would just be easier if we were not so hung up on ethnicity and nationality We would just have conflicts based on other group divisions (religion, political party, hair color, favorite football team…) Identification within a group and in contrast with other groups is part of how humans build their identity. We can learn to be civil about the whole ordeal (maybe), but I don't see it disappearing anytime in the next millenium. I agree. It's too hard-wired into us. If we ever get over it, it will be because of an outside pressure or a technological advancement that makes such labels obsolete. |
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Post by philman on Aug 16, 2013 18:22:44 GMT
People like the EDL people make me chuckle. If you wanted Britain to remain lily-white you shouldn't have gone out and conquered most of the known world. First mistake right there. Hah, I'll use that next time I meet someone like that. |
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Pig_catapult
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Keeper of the Devilkitty
Posts: 171
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Post by Pig_catapult on Aug 17, 2013 3:29:10 GMT
The 80's were funny in hindsight, but at the time it was kind of terrifying. All those magenta polka dots... Don't worry. Magenta isn't real. It's merely a shared hallucination conjured to keep us from having to deal with the reality of the visible spectrum having ends. |
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