[1202] Yea.. Ok

[snipertom]

May 27, 2013 8:48:30 GMT monkmunk said:

May 27, 2013 8:28:49 GMT kukapetal said:

Hi everyone *waves tentatively* First time poster, long time reader here.

So, I finally broke down and registered an account here because, while I usually absolutely adore this comic and its various twists and turns, this is the first time it has left me staring at my screen in utter confusion. Because I thought for sure she was going to turn Paz down. Yes, I know there've been a lot of recent scenes showing Kat supposedly struggling with her sexuality...but I honestly assumed she was struggling because she was upset that people were supposedly mistaking her for gay, not because she actually was gay.

I mean, Kat in the past has been shown to rather enthusiastically like boys. She liked Alistair, she had a crush on Eglamore, she went gaga over the idea of Muut (and then got all adorably shy in his presence), she seemed interested in Kamlen when Annie told her about him, I seem to remember Tom saying something about her having a "top ten list of boys," she collects action figures of male characters who are popular with the ladies in their respective fandoms, etc.

Of course, this could all be an act, or her trying to convince herself she liked boys, but I've never seen any hints about that in the story, nor have I seen any hints that she was attracted to girls. To me this all seemed to come out of nowhere. Paz confuses her attempt to cheer her up as a come-on, and that suddenly make Kat start questioning her sexuality? And decide that yes she is gay (or bi?) I mean, I've been mistaken for gay before, and it didn't make me wonder if I was gay...it made me uncomfortable sure, because I realized I'd been accidentally sending a message I didn't know I was sending, but someone else thinking I'm gay didn't make me think I was, or even might be. It just made me think "whoops, I had no idea I was sending that message." And that's what seemed to be going on with Kat, in my eyes.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with Kat being gay. I mean, I was hoping she wouldn't be, or at least, wouldn't get together with Annie, simply because the "two people of the same gender are close friends...they must be gay!" gets used so darn often in fanfiction (which I'm heavily into) that I'm a bit bored of the trope and would find it refreshing if that wasn't the case here. But if she is, that's fine. It's just that, the way it was handled in this case doesn't feel organic to the character. To me it just seems like a really weird way of having someone realize their sexuality and leaves me scratching my head.

I do apologize if I'm pooping the party here. I'm just really confused and want to talk to someone about it. And who better than fellow fans of the comic?

I get where you're coming from, but i think you've just misinterpreted a lot of the signals from the comic, because of your assumption that Kat was straight. Without that assumption, everything becomes a lot more ambiguous! Several of my friends dated people of the opposite sex in junior highschool, despite being gay, not because they were trying to hide their identity or sexuality, but because they genuinely like those people, and things tended to be fairly nonsexual back then (although i know that's not everyone's experience). Kat's genuine affection for Allistair doesn't necessarily indicate sexual attraction, although it's certainly a possibility.

Also, as far as Kat's identity crisis, i can tell you that, as a bisexual dude, after discovering my first desperate crush on a guy in 9th grade i was vehemently not-gay, gay-is-gross, etc. for the entire following year. Kat's been her own person through the entirety of the comic, and if it was just a matter of someone thinking she was gay when she wasn't, i don't think it would have phased her. Actually having to question your sexual identity is much more nerve-wracking!

May 27, 2013 9:33:38 GMT ReubenPatrick said:

May 27, 2013 9:13:32 GMT lit said:

I know what you mean, because there is a lot of evidence that Kat is interested in men in the past, and little evidence that she is interested in women.

But there could be a lot of reasons for this. Well, two; both involve her being bisexual.

1 - She always knew she was interested in girls as well as guys but played up her interest in guys because she thought her interest in girls would make her more of an outcast. She may have been primarily interested in Annie but realized that confessing this would threaten their friendship. She may have been in denial. The fact that there is another girl in her class who is interested in girls (and isn't Zimmy or Gamma) probably makes her feel less afraid to come out.

2 - She has only recently become aware that she is interested in girls as well as guys. This might have to do with the fact that she is growing older and new things are awakening in her. What she finds interesting may change as she develops. Her childhood interest in men might have been more informed by fairy-tales and by watching her parents than by, I don't know, actual sexually motivated feelings. Maybe she was able to suppress her inclinations earlier because they were less strong, because she was still a child.

I find her instant acceptance of Paz's proposal as a bit jarring because this is Kat we're talking about... ya know, the girl who was very very enthusiastic about boys (the word enthusiastic doesn't even cut it). Even at the very beginning and later chapters of the comic we see her obsessed wi Eggers, blush at Muut's Jesus bronze abs and even wear makeup for Allistar, the boy she likes... I mean I'm a guy, I don't really know if wearing makeup for a guy at such a young age is a BIG thing or not... But I think so... Probably... I don't know. I don't even know if something like that is even common.

Ladies, would you care to enlighten me?

But still... It's a great twist and if this is the direction we're heading, I'll even love and support the comic even more

This comic never ceases to amaze and intrigue

Well... I suppose i speak from experience when I say that I was *totally* obsessively crushing over multiple boys when I was 11/12. I mean, it was really intense. Then when I was about 13 (well, really, 12.5), I started noticing girls. It was still a few months before I got an actual crush on a girl. Anyway, it was all very confusing and I didn't know how I could reconcile crushes on boys with attraction to girls.

And it took me many years to really work out how much I liked girls (heaps!) and how much I like guys (occasionally!). Certainly, it seems to be common for:
- Gay people to start off having crushes on the opposite sex before the same sex
- Bi people to start off having crushes on the opposite sex before the same sex
- People who later identify as straight to start off having crushes on the opposite sex and have some crushes on the same sex

By which I mean to say, I don't think Kat or Paz have decided an identity any further than "I like this person and she happens to be a girl", and neither of their destinies are set in stone.

Bisexuality seems to be the most likely end result considering they've both liked both dudes and a girl, but I guess that's something that will be explored further.

Kat honestly seems like she was agonising over it as long as Paz but was so sure it wouldn't be reciprocated that she didn't prepare at all (other than emotionally for disappointment), and then she was completely stunned for like a whole minute while Paz poured her heart out.

So it wasn't really a *sudden* decision as such, plus "see what happens" is a pretty non-threatening proposition and takes a lot of the pressure off. (Even though I personally find ambiguity and lack of decision incredibly stressful- why I'm single perhaps?)

It's easy to project one's own identity onto the characters because they're very likeable and their reactions and flaws are realistic, however I would urge caution in extending that as far as assuming what their sexual orientation is.

That said, I found Willow being gay to be jarring, however she was 18 and suddenly "turned gay" which made less sense to me though apparently this can happen?

[mekboy]

I'll be honest, on reading this page I made a little 'squeeee' noise and flailed my arms a bit. So cute.

[monkmunk]

I don't really have a lot to add to snipergirl's excellent post, except to say that i also see this as having developed very organically rather than having come out of nowhere.

Crushes don't just appear fully formed out of nowhere, they can develop slowly, or be triggered by a moment or event. Looking back at the misunderstanding between Kat and Paz, what is wonderful is that it is no longer clear that it *was* a misunderstanding. It seems that at least one of them, Paz, felt some sort of spark, and reacted against it (a response i'm intimately familiar with). Then, at the end of the chapter, Kat looking at Annie and Jack as a couple, and then immediately thinking of Paz before any of the other boys, suggests she might have felt it too.

This is all clearly just my goofy interpretation, but for what it's worth, the entire arc with Kat and Paz, especially Kat's struggles with her identity, map very well with my own experiences, except that it took me way longer and i said some really dumb things during the 'crisis' portion of it.

Even with all that said, that first crush on a guy certainly felt sudden and abrupt to me, like "holy crap where the hell did this come from". So, if it feels jarring and abrupt to you, maybe you can take it as having experienced a little bit of what the characters probably did when they first felt that spark! ^_^

[snipertom]

May 27, 2013 8:06:47 GMT americonedream said:

No idea, snipergirl. That and how long it takes to load were among the many reasons I gave up on it. Maybe it'll be better in a few years; just look how much video games have progressed. Or maybe folks will realize how much more time goes into maintaining their first lives.

May 27, 2013 8:08:29 GMT download said:

It's ugly because users make their own content, and they suck at it

May 27, 2013 8:13:40 GMT GK Sierra said:

May 27, 2013 8:04:16 GMT snipertom said:

NSW, Aus here so 5pm



seriously what's with how ugly second life is? that is why i couldn't bear to spend more than 30 mins in it.

My aunt is strangely obsessed with it, and she grew up several decades before computers.

I hear she actually pays money for it.

argh. yes. all that.

- It's ugly, and I don't see why some enterprising chap or chapette hasn't found a way to use a newer engine to power it
- The community seems kind of crazy but apparently that is what people are there for?
- There is a thriving real-world economy on there (?!)
- First lives vs second lives- why I don't play the Sims. I spend enough time paying my own bills and moving my own self to the toilet kthxbai

[macderp]

I love my lesbians, i mean who doesn't hell i used to be one but yaknow transsexual now and stuff but that doesn't matter, what matters is Kat and Paz. You know what worries me about them? the big ol' judging machine (pretty much people who think their opinions matter) sure most will be fine. Annie might be lonely and may try to intervene with them but she would accept eventually . parents on the other hand would be a worrying topic. blegh i really want to do the characters and reactions to this but its late and i need sleep.

Even if i did there's still a chance this would all fall apart anyway and turn out to just be some experiment and it all goes to crap. _sigh

[americonedream]

I like to think that Kat's parents would be relatively cool with Kat dating Paz. Neither of them seem very high-strung and they're both pretty supportive of Kat altogether. I'm sure they won't jump for joy but they probably won't freak out over it. My folks were like that with my sister and neither of them are cool like the Donlans. :I

[0o0f]

May 27, 2013 10:43:19 GMT snipertom said:

- It's ugly, and I don't see why some enterprising chap or chapette hasn't found a way to use a newer engine to power it
- The community seems kind of crazy but apparently that is what people are there for?
- There is a thriving real-world economy on there (?!)
- First lives vs second lives- why I don't play the Sims. I spend enough time paying my own bills and moving my own self to the toilet kthxbai

Heh, I enjoy simulators so I tried second life a couple of times, but not only is it ugly and costs money. Everything looks the same to me. I couldn't figure out how to make a character that looked particularly interesting.

As for the comic: Whew.

Now it wouldn't surprise me if this is building up to Kat/Annie in the future, but... hopefully that would be in the distant future.

[snipertom]

Aww I don't want Paz to be heartbroken!

I think in the short term if Annie does feel left out as the only single person, she'll probably withdraw to the Forest more.

[piat]

My life is complete now.

And I just discovered this comic a few days ago.

[philman]

May 27, 2013 10:06:03 GMT Lightice said:

Well, that was unexpected, but not unwelcome. It's easy for writers to lay gayngst too thick. I hope that the whole comic doesn't turn into a teen romance drama, but I doubt that it's a serious concern with our talented author at the helm.

May 27, 2013 9:13:32 GMT lit said:

I mean, Kat in the past has been shown to rather enthusiastically like boys. She liked Alistair, she had a crush on Eglamore, she went gaga over the idea of Muut (and then got all adorably shy in his presence), she seemed interested in Kamlen when Annie told her about him, I seem to remember Tom saying something about her having a "top ten list of boys," she collects action figures of male characters who are popular with the ladies in their respective fandoms, etc.

What I find rather interesting in hindsight concerning all this is that Kat's interest in men seems to have proportionally decreased as she's progressed into puberty. It was usual for her to drool after (mostly fictional) guys early in the comic, but it's all but vanished in the later chapters. Even the interest in Kamlen was later explained as her wondering whether Annie had been involved with him.

Unfortunately for Paz, though, I suspect that with this development potential for relationship between Annie and Kat has been set in motion. I'm not saying this as a shipper, but rather it's starting to look like thematically logical direction for the story to take. All the Treatises have dealt with the duality between two worldviews in a way that's traditionally done as masculine/feminine-dualism, but with two female characters, instead. With the theme of the comic being borders between different opposites and bridging of gaps between them, it would be a novel perspective.

I'm kind of hoping that doesn't happen. Annie hasn't shown any interest in anyone, boys or girls, other than to try and upset Jack. I reckon she'll end up with something supernatural, rather than another student. And you can have the same duality with them both just being friends and not lovers.

I think alot of the people who are confused about why Kat used to like boys but now likes Paz are forgetting that these girls are only 14(ish? I forget the exact age). How many gay people were completely sure of which gender they liked when they were 14? How many thought they were gay, but were scared to admit it so tried to over-compensate by acting overly-into the opposite gender? I am not gay, but I am sure scenarios like that are not uncommon. And there have been plenty of little hints with Kat giving Paz sneaky glances now and again in the background.

I reckon this is going to lay the foundation of Annie feeling lonely and seeking solace somewhere we don't expect. Perhaps bringing Jack, the loner, into it a bit more. With her best friend now spending alot of time with someone else, she will have alot more time to herself, (cue montage of Annie trying to spend time with other characters), perhaps realising she isn't actually as talented and mature as she thinks she is.

[crater]

that was great, what a great chapter, everything is wonderful

surprising plot twist Ann is extremely homophobic

[macderp]

May 27, 2013 11:45:22 GMT crater said:

that was great, what a great chapter, everything is wonderful

surprising plot twist Ann is extremely homophobic

That would be interesting, although, most people would start hating on Annie and all the pro lgbt people would go into a rage and yadda yadda. although Annie has no problem with Zimmy and Gamma so highly unlikely unless its just to do with certain people being gay or some variant.

[yarksie]

I was expecting Kat to run off. But I am completely okay with this. Not what I expected, I do wonder how Annie will react, unless maybe she already had a feeling this would happen. What do you guys think her reaction will be?

[Anjanka]

See, this entire time I thought that what Kat was struggling with was her gender identity. I thought it was a very mature move on Tom's part because people often confuse the two. (I.e. Assume that a girl with more societal masculine traits is queer or assume that a more effeminate male is straight.) As in, people thought she was queer and because she is a wee child, that made her go out of her way to say, "Hey y'all! I really am a girl!"

But hey. I actually think this is a quite logical progress. Whether she initially had a crush on Paz or not, she's someone who wanted a relationship. I've definitely been in situations where I didn't initially have a crush on the person but started liking them when they showed an interest to me.

So she's curious and wants to experiment and that'll be a lot of fun to explore. : )

[Serenissima]

D'awww.

That's all I feel I need to say, despite the magnitude and seriousness of the discussion.

[download]

May 27, 2013 12:24:56 GMT yarksie said:

I was expecting Kat to run off. But I am completely okay with this. Not what I expected, I do wonder how Annie will react, unless maybe she already had a feeling this would happen. What do you guys think her reaction will be?

Kat comes back from her love letter hunt all happy but embarrassed. Rey immediately knows it's from a girl, laughs, congratulates her and walks out. Annie completely misses it an Kat now has no clue where to start.

Why does Ray do that? Because I think he's incredibly perceptive and going by his incident with Parley and Smitty, I think he'll be blunt and not help

[infinitysquared]

I am so happy for them. I hope they'll work out.
On another note, I have a feeling that Annie will get jealous.

[Goatmon]

You know, I wondered if this was gonna happen.

I kept thinking how Tom is really good at subverting expectations, and now that we know for sure Paz is the one, the only thing to really surprise most people would be exactly what just went down.

Not to say I really expected it, but the possibility had crossed my mind.

I hadn't counted on how adorable it'd be, though. Tom has made such fantastic strides in his art in the last few years.

[mcmuffinking]

This comic? The reason I read GKC. Tenderness, warmth, suprises, detail and maturity. Never resorting to either saccharine mush or mindless grimdark, light and shadows plenty of gray and plenty of heart. This is what makes this my favourite webcomic

Slightly off topic, but here in the mighty Waikato we get our 3 per week fix at a very reasonable 8 to 9pmish.

[ReubenPatrick]

May 27, 2013 11:45:22 GMT crater said:

that was great, what a great chapter, everything is wonderful

surprising plot twist Ann is extremely homophobic

Keh...Hehehehehe

[ReubenPatrick]

May 27, 2013 10:17:03 GMT snipertom said:

May 27, 2013 8:48:30 GMT monkmunk said:

I get where you're coming from, but i think you've just misinterpreted a lot of the signals from the comic, because of your assumption that Kat was straight. Without that assumption, everything becomes a lot more ambiguous! Several of my friends dated people of the opposite sex in junior highschool, despite being gay, not because they were trying to hide their identity or sexuality, but because they genuinely like those people, and things tended to be fairly nonsexual back then (although i know that's not everyone's experience). Kat's genuine affection for Allistair doesn't necessarily indicate sexual attraction, although it's certainly a possibility.

Also, as far as Kat's identity crisis, i can tell you that, as a bisexual dude, after discovering my first desperate crush on a guy in 9th grade i was vehemently not-gay, gay-is-gross, etc. for the entire following year. Kat's been her own person through the entirety of the comic, and if it was just a matter of someone thinking she was gay when she wasn't, i don't think it would have phased her. Actually having to question your sexual identity is much more nerve-wracking!

I find her instant acceptance of Paz's proposal as a bit jarring because this is Kat we're talking about... ya know, the girl who was very very enthusiastic about boys (the word enthusiastic doesn't even cut it). Even at the very beginning and later chapters of the comic we see her obsessed wi Eggers, blush at Muut's Jesus bronze abs and even wear makeup for Allistar, the boy she likes... I mean I'm a guy, I don't really know if wearing makeup for a guy at such a young age is a BIG thing or not... But I think so... Probably... I don't know. I don't even know if something like that is even common.

Ladies, would you care to enlighten me?

But still... It's a great twist and if this is the direction we're heading, I'll even love and support the comic even more

This comic never ceases to amaze and intrigue

Well... I suppose i speak from experience when I say that I was *totally* obsessively crushing over multiple boys when I was 11/12. I mean, it was really intense. Then when I was about 13 (well, really, 12.5), I started noticing girls. It was still a few months before I got an actual crush on a girl. Anyway, it was all very confusing and I didn't know how I could reconcile crushes on boys with attraction to girls.

And it took me many years to really work out how much I liked girls (heaps!) and how much I like guys (occasionally!). Certainly, it seems to be common for:
- Gay people to start off having crushes on the opposite sex before the same sex
- Bi people to start off having crushes on the opposite sex before the same sex
- People who later identify as straight to start off having crushes on the opposite sex and have some crushes on the same sex

By which I mean to say, I don't think Kat or Paz have decided an identity any further than "I like this person and she happens to be a girl", and neither of their destinies are set in stone.

Bisexuality seems to be the most likely end result considering they've both liked both dudes and a girl, but I guess that's something that will be explored further.

Kat honestly seems like she was agonising over it as long as Paz but was so sure it wouldn't be reciprocated that she didn't prepare at all (other than emotionally for disappointment), and then she was completely stunned for like a whole minute while Paz poured her heart out.

So it wasn't really a *sudden* decision as such, plus "see what happens" is a pretty non-threatening proposition and takes a lot of the pressure off. (Even though I personally find ambiguity and lack of decision incredibly stressful- why I'm single perhaps?)

It's easy to project one's own identity onto the characters because they're very likeable and their reactions and flaws are realistic, however I would urge caution in extending that as far as assuming what their sexual orientation is.

That said, I found Willow being gay to be jarring, however she was 18 and suddenly "turned gay" which made less sense to me though apparently this can happen?[/quote]

Oh...wow... that was a long and informative answer. Thank you.

[icekatze]

hi hi

Oh, to be young and in love. Everything seems so much simpler.

[Toloc]

May 27, 2013 10:17:03 GMT snipertom said:

That said, I found Willow being gay to be jarring, however she was 18 and suddenly "turned gay" which made less sense to me though apparently this can happen?

To be fair, there was Vampire!Willow the season before, who was "kinda gay".

I don't think this is gonna lead up to Kat/Annie. We won't see Annie's reaction for a while, because she won't be told, because of more upcoming Gayngst.
Before I forget: Lindsey is still somehow involved as mastermind.

Also:
Awwwwww

[Alexandragon]

Awwww) So cute)))

May 27, 2013 7:02:17 GMT radiantburrito said:

I am giddy.

Me too

May 27, 2013 7:02:21 GMT GK Sierra said:

Some dreams were meant to come true.

Or not... Who knows?)

[csj]

[sunday]

I want to contribute in the conversation but DAMN IS IT REAL
I'M GONNA BITE MYSELF
GO GIRLS I'M HAPPY FOR YOU

[hargharg]

Three cheers for the believers! : D

[rolandofgilead]

As soon as I woke up this morning, LITERALLY the first thing I did was check GC.com. Holy poop, I was so excited for this! And honestly, not at all disappointed. Kat is my favorite character (besides Annie I suppose) and seeing her so happy makes me happy.

The only foreseeable downside is a potential Ross/Rachel thing with Annie and Kat, but I don't think Tom would be that platitudinous.

[dismalscientist]

Uhhh, Paz … those cages aren’t cleaning themselves. Will no one think of the mice?

[download]

Does anyone else get the feeling that might be a two part chapter like Spring Heeled? It just feels like it's not finished to me.

Kat hasn't said anything to Annie, we don't know what the letter said, etc. I also feel the forest should have "catalysed" something, but I don't see anything