Gunnerkrigg/MTG card thread

[http404error]

Thank you, that is a very informative guide and everyone should read it.

Morpheus's cards and mechanics will be taken into consideration but aren't included in the set at this time.

Your statements about how much one mana spells are worth is a bit off, because it doesn't take into consideration that you're spending a card as well. If you could pay 2 to doublePonder it would be OP, just as with the others.

Flying is a very white mechanic, second only to blue. Suntail Hawk, Lantern Kami. Multicolor cards can mix mechanics from the two colors even if one is disallowed it.

Large sets, first in the block, usually have 3-4 mechanics. The second small set usually adds 2 or so. By the end of a block, there are actually a lot of mechanics flying around. One of the links in the doc (sig) concerns this information, if you're interested. But yes, I was thinking two or three for the GKC set.

Otherwise, thank you for your contributions. Glad to have you on-board. (I could use some help constructing a set skeleton.)

EDIT:

The Vintage cards are fine and classy. Stop picking on the poor guy. If he wants to make Legends redux, so be it.

[terramaster]

Jan 25, 2013 21:02:05 GMT http404error said:

Your statements about how much one mana spells are worth is a bit off, because it doesn't take into consideration that you're spending a card as well. If you could pay 2 to doublePonder it would be OP, just as with the others.

Double Preordain is Foresee I guess. Gaining a card rather than replacing it is costed much higher though. Scry 4 would be only U, while the draw 2 would be the 3 part.

Shuffle top 3, Scry 2, Draw a card would probably be UU.

Jan 25, 2013 21:02:05 GMT http404error said:

Flying is a very white mechanic, second only to blue. Suntail Hawk, Lantern Kami. Multicolor cards can mix mechanics from the two colors even if one is disallowed it.

I always thought that is was minor in white, but more of a blue.

White Red makes me think of Boros, but I belive my multicolor thinking is broken due to the current block.

Jan 25, 2013 21:02:05 GMT http404error said:

The Vintage cards are fine and classy. Stop picking on the poor guy. If he wants to make Legends redux, so be it.

I really wonder if we need another Kei Takahashi or the like. I'm fine with old cards. I'm not ok with poorly designed cards? It's more like I want the cards to be something that could sit beside any one of the current cards and feel like it belongs. I'm also TOTALLY FINE with the vintage look, but the ambiguous old card templating makes me mad

---------------------------

Jan 25, 2013 18:47:18 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Excellent point. I think I'll go with zombies and skeletons.

May I suggest spirits? The things Annie deals with (and it seems the court in general) are spirits. Being the "medium", this seems thematically correct.

Jan 25, 2013 18:47:18 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Also landwalk-of-your-choice and creature-grabbing used to be pretty decent abilities. Is that less so in modern MTG?

Not when one of the premier 4-drops is Restoration Angel. She does a lot of work, and will end up

Neither of them impacted the board state immediately. Especially when Turn 4-5 are pivotal moments in modern magic.

Currently R for damage is SUPER GOOOOOOOD, and is almost enough by itself, because of the requirements. Olivia Voldaren; and Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius will take over a game if undisturbed.

Jan 25, 2013 18:47:18 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

But as far as exemplifying them as characters, what do you think would be better?

...

That is a problem but they are pivotal characters after all. I'd rather see them tricked out then simplified.

I will have to ponder that.

I would also like to have a clean, and simple unifying theme, rather than several parts that are just "jammed" together. It's better design to have a card be unified rather than split across. Deathrite Shaman, while being "tricked out", has this nice overall theme of doing stuff to the graveyard. He is black and green, has a very black ability, a very green ability, and a third "sort-of both" ability that are all unified by the graveyard interaction.

Get the "essence" of Annie and Surma rather than the surface.

[Morpheus]

Jan 25, 2013 14:46:06 GMT terramaster said:

Some info for you non-magic'ers.

Templating

Magic cards are written in a very specific way in order to be clear and concise between cards with similar effects.

All colors appear in a certain order. WUBRG. White, Blue, Black, Red, Green.

All Artifact Creatures are "Robots". There is no need for a subtype specifically for them. If you like, you may use Golem as the creature type instead. This also allows for cards to be "actual card friendly".

Examples that could use some Sprucing up from Morpheus's Album:

Moddy Doo 2B:
2B{T}: Return target creature from your graveyard to your hand.

Katerina, Robot Angel 4UU:
Flying
All Artifact Creatures gain +1/+1.
UU{T}: Return target Artifact Creature from your graveyard onto the battlefield under your control. It gains Modular 1.

Good Hope Hospital
Good Hope Hospital comes into play tapped.

Diego, Father of Robots 4{U/B}{U/B}:
Sacrifice a creature, {T}: Destroy target creature. All creatures get -2/-2 until end of turn.

Reynardine, Cotton Wolf 5R:
Trample
When ~ enters the battlefield, it deals 1 damage to target creature.

Shadow Two W:
Shadow Two is Unblockable.

Paz 1{U/G}:
{T}: Prevent the next 1 damage dealt to a creature this turn.
{T}: Target creature gains +1/+0 until end of turn.

Reynardine
This card is gross. Do you want it to trigger ETB effects, or just gain activated abilities and keywords?

---------------------------------------

Some advice

Modular is a really gross mechanic. It represents "recyling" of the parts once a creature has died. I don't think the court's robots really exhibit this behavior.

Beware of not including the cost of "Sacrifice <this creature>" in the costs for the ability. If it is destroyed before the ability can resolve, the ability just won't happen. Reynardine, Stuffed Toy is a good example.

Avoid multicolor cards like the plague. By doing so, you will design better via the constraints of the color pie.

Understand the color pie, and what colors are allowed to have what keywords. Flying is not a very "white" mechanic at 1~2CMC. Flying, flash, and prevent damage doesn't sound very "Red" to me, that belongs on a white creature.

Avoid "Parasitic cards". Reynardine, Stuffed Toy, and Renardine, Cotton Wolf have a flavorful Synergy, but without Cotton Wolf, Stuffed Toy is really REALLY bad (boxbot bad). This is really important when you may not have both cards at the same time in limited.

Pick no more than 2-3 non evergreen keywords for a set. If it's any more, the set will seem just thrown together (which I find is usually the case).

Search on magiccards.info to see if a card has "already been done", and take cues from it's wording to make your own.

All artifact creatures are robots? That's not true. Sure many of them are, but there's also golems (which are NOT robots), scarecrows, cyborgs and magical creatures like sphinxes and masticores. I do agree that robot isn't the proper creature type though, but neither is golem. Construct fits nicely instead.

Thanks for the corrections on Moddey Dhoo and those.

As for Reynardine, what do you mean it's gross? He's essentially a black/red shapeshifter, and I know shapeshifter's don't fit in those colous, but they do with the character. I want him to get any and all abilities of the creature he targets, no matter if they're ETB effects or not. What does "gross" mean in this case? Do you mean it's bad design or just that you don't like it for some unexplained reason?


As for modular, I think it fits the court robots perfectly in fact, it's very clear that the court robots recycle the bodies of old robots, but the robot doesn't necessarily die from the process. Robot himself got made into paperclips, but his CPU chip, his brain, wasn't destroyed. Modular is perfect for court robots, they've been remaking the ancient robots for, well, a long time.

I like multicolour cards and I'll make them when I find it appropriate. Don't tell me what I can and can't like. I understand the colour pie fairly well too, thank you very much. Flying is almost as white as it is blue. Flying and flash might not technically be very red and preventing damage certainly isn't, but I like the flavor it gives Annie, that she can let loose suddenly and with great power, but still under her own control. Perhaps I should make that card multicolour too, white/red, to justify the flying and damage prevention with the colour pie too, but I like it as red. It looks nice. I also buffed her by the way, I just haven't updated anything for a long time. I never quite understoo why flash wasn't a lot in red either, i just see it as the more versatile version of haste, which is very very red.

I should probably make stuffed Reynardine a bit better.

I know my wording isn't perfect, and I might use too many keywords, but really these are all just examples of how cards in the set might look. They're not meant to be final, which I have pointed out before. The final set will hopefully be less chaotic than what I'm making.

You give some good advice, but you also voice some opinions that I honestly don't care for. The vintage cards are fine as is, and the final set doesn't necessarily see cards that would see play in any competitive format. They need to be fun, because that's the only thing they'll be good for anyway, casual play.

[terramaster]

Jan 29, 2013 13:45:18 GMT Morpheus said:

I do agree that robot isn't the proper creature type though, but neither is golem. Construct fits nicely instead.

Yes. I mentioned golem for the court's weird, almost alchemical design.

As for Reynardine, what do you mean it's gross? He's essentially a black/red shapeshifter, and I know shapeshifter's don't fit in those colous, but they do with the character. I want him to get any and all abilities of the creature he targets, no matter if they're ETB effects or not. What does "gross" mean in this case? Do you mean it's bad design or just that you don't like it for some unexplained reason?

I couldn't interpret it very well.

Gaining abilities vs becoming of a copy of a card results is wordy, because it must enter as a copy with those abilities. Sakashima the Imposter is one of the worst offenders as far as I'm aware. After finding Quicksilver Gargantuan, I have a better idea of how to word it...

Renardine may enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield, except it's still 3/1; or with power and toughness equal to any creature on the battlefield.

I like multicolour cards and I'll make them when I find it appropriate. Don't tell me what I can and can't like. I understand the colour pie fairly well too, thank you very much. Flying is almost as white as it is blue.

As soon as I got away from a computer I remembered Squadron Hawks.

Herp-derp.

Also, I apologize for stepping on your toes a little. It's a common mistake I see when people try to make cards, and go "LETS USE ALL THE COLORS!".

I never quite understood why flash wasn't a lot in red either, i just see it as the more versatile version of haste, which is very very red.

Probably because it's more defensive. Where white/green would get flash, red would more likely get an instant. It's also a lasting effect (usually leaving a body), which is more characteristic in White/Green, vs a fleeting effect like haste.

I see red just EXPLODING and not staying around much longer. Where as white is: "HAVE NO FEAR! THE CAVALRY HAS ARRIVED!"

You give some good advice, but you also voice some opinions that I honestly don't care for. The vintage cards are fine as is, and the final set doesn't necessarily see cards that would see play in any competitive format. They need to be fun, because that's the only thing they'll be good for anyway, casual play.

Casual play is all well and good, but you kill my inner Spike. One of my favorite projects was the booze cube. It was designed to be drafty, and is able to be played for "srs busness" even though it was light-hearted. Heck, un-hinged could be played at least semi-seriously.

[Morpheus]

Sorry for taking offense terramaster, I just got a bit on the defensive there. >_<
Your points about flash and Reynardine's wording are good, I'll keep them in mind when I get around to doing a bit more work on my cards.

...I like the booze cube. I wish I had more friends who played magic

[http404error]

Get your friends to play Magic, then! That's what I did. I'm now president of the local Magic Club, a dozen+ strong.

www.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/130

[Magpie]

Well, I guess I saw this thread about a million years too late.

As a long-time and up-to-date Magic player, I want in on this.

I've never bothered using programs to make the pretty pictures though, what do you recommend using? Anyone have a link?

I'm already full of ideas thanks to this great thread.

Small nitpick: A bunch of the phrasing could use some work on a lot of these. A card design that is otherwise fantastic but is not phrased in the proper rule phrasings is really off-putting.

Expect a few design of my own soon-ish.

[Magpie]

Hey, nevermind, found MSE and downloaded it.

I'm still new to the program, but here's one of the first card I've made to tide you over and give you a glimpse of the demented logic I use to combine the world of Gunnerkrigg with Magic:

[Magpie]

Still getting the hang of MSE.

Here's my first, unpolished version of Coyote:



I've got a few, though not very concrete, ideas about the rest of the main cast. Well, at least what color someone is at a given time, anyway.

[GK Sierra]

Feb 1, 2013 14:04:51 GMT Magpie said:

Well, I guess I saw this thread about a million years too late.

As a long-time and up-to-date Magic player, I want in on this.

I've never bothered using programs to make the pretty pictures though, what do you recommend using? Anyone have a link?

I'm already full of ideas thanks to this great thread.

Small nitpick: A bunch of the phrasing could use some work on a lot of these. A card design that is otherwise fantastic but is not phrased in the proper rule phrasings is really off-putting.

Expect a few design of my own soon-ish.

It's never too late! Come on in!

Constructive nit-picks are also a valuable commodity, so feel free.

[yinglung]

I wonder if it would be more constructive to have a separate thread for the set design, and then this thread can be the one for random GK card posting?
Regarding mechanics, I think Shadow would be a good combat mechanic to bring back. There is a decent amount of physical/ether dichotomy already, and not to mention actual shadows.
Along a similar vein, we could use Ether as a supertype to stress the science/myth separation.

[Magpie]

Feb 1, 2013 20:28:43 GMT yinglung said:

I wonder if it would be more constructive to have a separate thread for the set design, and then this thread can be the one for random GK card posting?
Regarding mechanics, I think Shadow would be a good combat mechanic to bring back. There is a decent amount of physical/ether dichotomy already, and not to mention actual shadows.
Along a similar vein, we could use Ether as a supertype to stress the science/myth separation.

I really think Shadow is a great fit for things relating to Zimmingham.
In Magic, the story concept behind the Shadow mechanic is the idea of creatures stuck between worlds, and the actual cards reflecting that with the combat "on another plane of existence", where "normal" creatures are not able to stop or interact with the Shadow creatures.

Sound like anyone we know?

A creature in GKC cards having Shadow easily translates into that creature existing in a (dark) etheric dimension. It just feels right!

Some examples:




Went a bit overboard with the exile theme maybe, but that's another mechanic really in line with the story feel of Zimmy's mind.

[GK Sierra]

A more nuanced black set, I like it.

I'll just slip this bad boy into the red/black deck...

...and these cards will make grown men cry.

Mana cost looks balanced and casting from exile is a cool mechanic in my opinion, but it's probably going to want a few more creatures with that mechanic to fully take use of it. (Like a creature that attacks with an +X/+X counter equal to the number of creatures exiled, sort of like the Bonehoard and Splinterfright except exile instead of graveyard)

Also, on the Zimmy card you might want to remove the spacing between the 2nd and 3rd sentences. They're describing the same thing and keeping them in separate paragraphs makes the text several font sizes smaller and harder to read.

[Magpie]

Once you get rolling, it's kind of hard to stop

Have a few more GKC-ed real Magic cards before I hit the hay:




(seriously, I love how good Tom's art looks on the Decree. I need it on an official card. FOIL!)

[GK Sierra]

Feb 2, 2013 0:11:34 GMT Magpie said:

Once you get rolling, it's kind of hard to stop

I know, right? ;D

More fun than stacking little rocks.

[http404error]

Shadow has many things going for it, yes. I'm not totally sold yet, though. It's parasitic and plays quite similarly to flying. I think we can do something more interesting... I'm just overloaded with projects currently.

Here's one idea. It's not a great one, because it does little by itself and leads to excessive complexity for commons.

Etheric (At the beginning of each upkeep, you may exile this permanent. If you do, return it to the battlefield at the beginning of the next end step.)

Things to do with it:
ETB effects
Protection from slow removal
Static effects when exiled
Effects that move cards from exile to play and v/v
Other?

At this point, I feel that keeping the thread unified is better for traffic. The information specific to the set can be pooled in the docs.

[yinglung]

huh. I sorta want to separate the effects: (atboeu, you may exile this. At the beginning of each end step, if this is exiled, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control)

I could see something like
GOP U
Instant
Exile target permanent with Etheric.

also, on the shadow front,

Jeanne, Barrier Maiden 2ww
Leg. Creature - Human Spirit
Shadow, Etheric
As long as ~ is exiled, ~ may block as if it is on the battlefield. If ~ would be dealt lethal damage, put ~ into it's owner's graveyard.
3/4

Or the third ability could be part of the etheric mechanic, but can only block creatures with shadow.
That way, Annie could have Etheric to interact with shadows, without having to have shadow herself.

[http404error]

Right, it should say "At the beginning of the end step, if this card is exiled, you may return it to the battlefield". I dunno if it's that good of a mechanic though. Shadow still seems superior.

[yinglung]

I think that both mechanics could be used, and that etheric has excellent flavo. After all, the space between planes is a realm of chaotic energy that coalesces around beings and ideas that enter it. Meanwhile, the ether is the realm of imagination, where the thoughts dreams and fears of men are given form and purpose. Etheric fairly accurately describes the "spun from myth" aspects of both settings.

So, how is this for the updated mechanic:
Etheric (At the beginning of each upkeep, you may exile this permanent. At the beginning of the end step, if this card is exiled, you may return it to the battlefield. As long as this card is exiled, if it is a creature card, it may block as if it is on the battlefield and has shadow. If this card would be dealt lethal damage, put it into it's owner's graveyard.)

Okay, that's pretty lengthy, but all I have to say is that suspend is comparable.
What I like about etheric is that it makes zone changing more relevant. with it, we can have cards that exile cards in your graveyard, or library, and cards that put exiled cards in graveyards or libraries.
On that note, if a creature or something is too powerful for costless return to play, we could add "when this enters the battlefield, pay (whatever) or sacrifice this ."

[http404error]

I don't like them being able to interact in combat. They should just have simple static effects. If they must be able to fight, then they should 'phase in' (why yes, I was rather inspired by phasing..) to block. For example, Jeanne could have "3W: Return Jeanne from exile to the battlefield. This turn, she may block any number of creatures."

That straightens out a lot of rules issues, such a permanent being in existence in a game zone other than the battlefield.

[GK Sierra]

Wow, you've done a lot of new cards since I last checked.

The cigarette burn to Boxbot is masterful touch.

[http404error]

We also need to discuss the role of multicolor in the set. Hybrid mana is an okay idea, but I want to at least talk with someone who's drafted Lorwyn/Shadowmoor block about how that all works out first...

I'm opposed to putting too much gold in the set; I'd rather keep it almost all monocolor, similar to Scars or Zen blocks.

[http404error]

Electro-disruptor, perhaps?

Also, that tutor is overpowered. But you knew that already.

[warrl]

Mar 5, 2013 6:18:00 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

[edit] Prototype Pomp and Pomp, possibly.[/edit]

It has been several years since I've played, but it seems to me that in any given game the psychopomps will be either useless or overpowered.

Maybe change their use to cost 1 mana and remove one card (of the psychopomp-player's choosing) from target graveyard.

[http404error]

The 'pomps are a bit overcosted (EDIT: in color weight! so like 1BB would be better), actually. That's also not a typical black ability. See: Ghostly Possession, Fog Bank.

[http404error]

Lockdown decks are hilarious. There are still a few floating around, although they don't print as many cards with stalling effects these days. Sphere of Safety is one of the few recent ones.

So... the Bridge could be kind of like Crawlspace? Or perhaps an enchantment that represents the magic on the Annan Waters that requires upkeep but limits incoming attacks or something.

[yinglung]

It seems like psychopomps should not remove cards in the graveyard from the game; at the very least, shuffle them into their owner's library (keeps the world turning). Likewise, it might be better to keep it as a creature type, and then have legendary psychopomps as the roles arise.
e.g.:
Grim Reaper 2gg
Creature - Human Psychopomp
Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt to and by Grim Reaper.
:t:: Shuffle target creature card in a graveyard into its owner's library. That player draws a card.
1/1

Ketrak, Chittering Witness 1gg
Legendary Creature - Insect Psychopomp
Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt to and by Ketrak, Chittering Witness.
Whenever a 1/1 creature card is sent from the battlefield to your graveyard, you may reveal this card from your library. If you do, put this card in your hand and shuffle that creature card into your library.
1/1




As for multicolor, I think the gold cards should be split along court/woods lines, ie if court is uw and wood is gr, there would be no green/blue or white/red gold cards. However, hybrid mana would be used to designate crossover elements, such as Red (the sprite student), Anja's magitech computer, Alistair and his bird transfer status.

In other news, I thought of a mechanic:
realign (Choose an opponent. That opponent gains control of this.)
e.g.:
Hall Monitor :4:
Artifact Creature - Construct Soldier
Defender
Creatures your opponents control without shadow cannot attack.
:4:: Realign Hall Monitor. Any player may play this ability.
1/5

[GK Sierra]

Interesting... took me a few seconds to get it straight in my head.

A bit of a gambit.

[androkguz]

Hello everyone. I joined this site just to post on this threat because I am a big fan of both GKC and MtG.
I see that there seem to be two groups of people: the ones making tons of independent cards about characters of the comic and the ones trying to make a magic card set. I am on board with the second group and would like to add my help (as I am a big fan of the "making magic" column and always wanted to desing one set for fun)

Ok, so it seems to me that your main problem is that you don't know what should be the direction that the set takes. I think I have a couple of ideas that could help

Imagine you are making a whole block (three sets) just for a moment. Among those sets are going to be 8 to 10 main deck ideas, evenly distributed amongst the five colors. The first set (the one you are going to desing) will contain 4 of those deck ideas, and a little of the other 4-6. That means that most cards have to "belong" to deck type A or B (and as many as posible should be able to belong to more than one deck type). This is in a way what was used to desing the Ravnica Block.

Because the main theme of the GKC universe seems to be the court/forest duality, it would be perfect that there be 2 greater themes that each represent each faction (a greater theme is something like "artifacts" "the graveyard" "phyrexian mana", etc.)

--------------------------------------------------

That was my suggestion for how to decide the direction of the set. As for my specifics suggestions of what should be the themes:

The Gunnerkrigg Court
-Non-basic lands as a theme is a very interesting thing. I am thinking that many cards could have a "As long as you have three or more untapped non-basic lands..." condition for artifacts, creatures and spells that require powering up. You could, in fact, call it "Power up". Elsewise, they could care about non-basic lands in other ways.

The Forest
-Etheric seems to be extremely flavorful and a great ability except that I fear it is extremely broken when combined with whatever kind of "whenever a creature enters the battlefield" effect. Perhaps if you add a {1} cost to bring the permanent back to play...


As for the 10 deck ideas, here are some (this would be the kind of decks you could end up drafting, for instance, because they are very present themes)

Kat's Robot army: Mainly Blue, with a posible space for white
-Would be, first of all, a tribal Construct deck
-Robots, as a tribe, are good at getting powered up (non-basic lands) and at being a lot, but not being very agresive
-Robots tap and untap a lot (kind of the merfolk from lorwyn)

Coyote's Trickery: Green, red and black
-It would be, mostly, a disruption deck (discard, land destruction)
-Use mostly non-creature spells, preferibly sorcery, all Coyote themed (green gets a lot of many effects).
-Among this three colors, there would be plenty of cards that help you play a deck with many sorceries. The key thing could be "sorcery spells with a converted mana cost of 5 or more"
-For example
Not exactly tree elves
Creature - Elf 1/1 {G}
{t}: Add {1} to your mana pool
{t}: Add {2} to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast sorcery spells.

The Trickster's schemes
Sorcery {2}{B}
Search your library for a sorcery card with converted mana cost 5 or more, reveal it and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.


Zimmingham: Black and white and maybe blue
-Control deck. Etheric would be a very important keyword to use here
-Nobody tokens for everyone.
-Stuff that lets you sacrifice the nobodies.

[imaginaryfriend]

Blinker Stone. Remember, we had Sol Ring back then.