'power-level' rankings of the characters

[pudgimelon]

It seems there is a heirarchy of power level and supernatural ability in the world of GunnerKrigg.

God-like creatures like Coyote and Muut have abilities far beyond those of mortals. Coyote can create his own race of people and Muut is Death's ferryman, so clearly they are in a realm of their own.

Just under them are supernatural beings and demons like Renardine and Ysengrin. They are very powerful and possess abilities that command fear and/or respect, but they are not in the same class with Coyote or Muut, because they could be concievably defeated by very strong humans (like Eglamore).

Then come the supernaturally gifted humans like Eglamore, Surma, and Anja (and perhaps Anthony too, we just don't know). Some of these people possess abilities that bring them close to the power level of the demons (at least in terms of intelligence or combat ability), but they are still human, which makes them weaker in some ways and stronger in other ways. On the opposite side of the moat you have the glass-eyed men and other minions who are equivilent to humans in terms of power and mortality.

Whether or not Antimony, Kat, Smits or Parley with grow up to be as powerful or as gifted as their teachers remains to be seen, but it's pretty clear that Kat and Antimony are far more gifted than most of their classmates (except for Zimmy and Gamma). We also have faeries, minotaurs, ghosts and other creatures who are not human, but also not anywhere near as strong or as gifted as Eglamore or Surma.

So that's four or five levels right there:
- god or god-like,
- demon/beastie/being,
- super-human/shadow/minion,
- children/faeries/etc...

My personal guess is that the Headmaster probably ranks on the same tier as Renardine, Ysengrin or perhaps even Muut and Coyote.

It would not surprise me at all to learn that he was some sort of Prometheus-like techno-god or perhaps some sort of demi-human like an android with supernatural abilities that are on par with the demons or even the gods.

Call it a hunch, but his boredom with the whole procedings gives me the impression that he views Ysengrin as a bit of a nuisance.

And I doubt a creature like Renardine would be able to possess the Headmaster either. So if he's at or above their power level, then that would put him in the same league with the likes of Coyote or Muut.

Notice the difference in the way Eglamore and the other humans react to Ysengrin. Eglamore's whole posture indicates that he takes Ysengrin very seriously, and so far, Eglamore is one of the most powerful humans we've encountered. He beat Renardine, after all. Though I'm sure he didn't do it bare-handed (that sword must come in very handy), which is why I rank him below Renardine in terms of intrinsic power.

So if one of the most capable and skilled humans we've seen takes Ysengrin seriously, but the Headmaster treats him like a whinging little boy, then my guess is that the Headmaster has got some tricks that would make Ysengrin's tree arms look like sticks.

[pudgimelon]

oops, that should be "parley", not parker, can't edit...

sli said:

Modify=edit

Ah, thanks. I was looking on the bottom of the post, not the top...

[Yin]

Modify=edit

[UbiquitousDragon]

I don't have much to add, other than I like you reasoning.

On the Anthony issue, he is accused by Ysengrin, which makes me think he does have some power because Ysengrin believes Anthony is capable of attacking the forest. And I think Anja has some powers, like the ones she showed when she bound Rey, and in creating the Court's signal--she has enough power within the Court to respond to Ysengrin and the Coyote without seeking approval or permission from someone like the Headmaster.

[pudgimelon]

ubiquitousdragon said:

I don't have much to add, other than I like you reasoning.

On the Anthony issue, he is accused by Ysengrin, which makes me think he does have some power because Ysengrin believes Anthony is capable of attacking the forest. And I think Anja has some powers, like the ones she showed when she bound Rey, and in creating the Court's signal--she has enough power within the Court to respond to Ysengrin and the Coyote without seeking approval or permission from someone like the Headmaster.

Yeah I agree with you. My guess is that Anthony is no slouch, but we've yet to see that confirmed.

Anja and Donald both seem to be capable scientists (though I think Kat probably outshines them already). However, I haven't seen much from Donald, so my guess is that Anja is more "mystically-inclined" than he is. After all, she seems naturally able to conjure some magic, like when she bound Renardine (though she needed a blinker stone for the sign, which suggests that it was easier to bind him in toy form since binding a demon should be harder than making a sign).

Note, that I don't believe that just because a being is supernatural that it is necessarily powerful. I'm pretty sure than Eglamore could mop the floor with the minotaur without breaking much of a sweat, and Mort needed a child to teach him how to be scary, so he's probably not much of a threat either.

But I still rank the humans lower than Renardine and Ysengrin because they need to use "tools" in order to do many things (swords, blinker stones, technology, etc...). I'm pretty sure that if Eglamore or Anja would have a much harder time with Renardine if he wasn't in toy form under Annie's control.

The White Lady of the Annan is probably on par with Coyote or Muut, but then again, maybe not. Muut seems glad that she cannot cross the water, but that might be because she poses a threat to Annie, not Muut, and heck, a normally big brown bear would pose just as much of a threat, so we can't say for sure where she ranks (though I suspect she's quite powerful).

[Boksha]

I expect Eglamore and Anja's powers aren't natural. i.e. they're powers that come from training and exercise instead of something they were born with. I think Ysengrin isn't any different. Though we haven't really had any proof of it, I expect him to have been human at some point. The fact that the headmaster didn't recognise him but did make a guess to his identity would indicate that he went through some radical change (more than just getting super powerful wooden arms), at least. Another option would be that he's a demon that possesses bodies like Reynardine and even then his arms don't seem to be a natural part of his current body. (which, in that case, is most likely a regular wolf's body)

I don't think Reynardine's powers are comparable to that of humans. Like Mort, Muut and the Annan lady he's a supernatural being whose powers are probably of a different nature but bound to strict rules; all we've seen Reynardine do is possess bodies and kill them when he leaves and under certain circumstances he can apparently shapeshift. (he seemed to be unable to when he was possessing Sivo)
In any regular body however, I don't think he's a match for any of the Court people; he was beaten easily by Eglamore even in the body of a strong Rogat Orjak, and he never even made an attempt to possess him as an offensive move. My guess is he dies if it fails, and it fails if the body he's about to possess is moved too far away before he's finished (as happened with Annie), which would be easy to do for Eglamore. Additionally, the process may fail because the target is too powerful mentally. Or maybe the amount of times he can possess a new body is limited to once in a while, or limited alltogether, so he didn't try to possess Eglamore because he was planning on possessing Annie or Surma. (unaware of her death)
I wouldn't rank him higher than the powered court people. My guess is several court people could together take out Ysengrin as well, though I'm not sure about Coyote. My guess is the headmaster's powers are either developed as well, or maybe he doesn't have any supernatural powers and his strength completely lies in the fact that he's the head-honcho of a school with powerful people, a position he may have acquired through skill and smarts or proficiency as a scientist as opposed to having physical/magical power.
Annie and Surma do seem to have a fully natural ability to communicate with spirits, but considering Smith and Parley, you can apparently develop similar powers (or at least improve a weak existing one) through training.

[shishio]

Everyone knows Eglamore is a super saiya-jin.

[nickgoodway]

If Eglamore is a super saiyajin he must have had a drastic haircut [and a tailectomy]

[Count Casimir]

The highest tier (i.e. Coyote and Muut) seem rather unconcerned with the goings-on of the Court and the Forest. The fact that the Headmaster is not quite taking an active role in the debate inclines me to agree with you, pudgimelon.

[spritznar]

i'm inclined to say the headmaster is mostly normal (according to the evidence so far). it's true that he doesn't seem concerned when facing a giant scary wolf-demon but this is more of a diplomatic meeting than anything else. in this setting it doesn't matter so much if the wolf can rip the headmaster to pieces because he can't do it without serious consequences - like war between the court and forest. and while ysengrin does seem to want to go after the court, the rest of the forest wouldn't back him if he just up and attacked.

as for the comment about the headmasters lack of excitement/concern compared to powerful people like eglamore; eglamore is powerful in a physical or magical battle but he doesn't strike me as a diplomat. i think he's just jumpy cause he's out of his element, whereas the headmaster probably deals with this kind of stuff more often and isn't impressed (also i think he's not taking an active role because he wants to wait for ysengrin to finish having his tantrum and address all his grievances at once)

other than that, i like the ranking system of gods/demons/super-humans... etc

i'd like to add that it's entirely possible the headmaster is a super-demigod or something, i just don't think the evidence points there yet

[shishio]

nickgoodway said:

If Eglamore is a super saiyajin he must have had a drastic haircut [and a tailectomy]

Nah, he just hides his tail and hasn't actually gone super saiya-jin yet.

[spritznar]

shishio said:

nickgoodway said:

If Eglamore is a super saiyajin he must have had a drastic haircut [and a tailectomy]

Nah, he just hides his tail and hasn't actually gone super saiya-jin yet.

i dunno, he wears pretty tight pants, it'd be hard to hide a tail in there...

www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=36

[nickgoodway]

He could be 'tucking forward', like a pre-op MTF 'tucks back'.

[dork457]

OVER NINE THOUSSANNDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[spritznar]

*blink blink* o.O; over nine thousand what exactly?

[Ptollu Vux]

Internet meme, referencing an episode of the Dragonball Z anime. It goes as follows.

Goku is powering up.
Nappa: Vegeta, what does the [power] scanner say?
Vegeta: IT'S OVER NINE THOUSA[copious amount of a's]ND!


Anja's powers are obviously of unnatural origin, and I'm not sure Eglamore's "super strength" is completely training either. That "single bound" leap he took near the beginning of the current chapter doesn't seem attainable by normal means...
... plus he's ridiculously buff.

As for Ysengrin and Reynardine, I suspect that they're cousins. Ysengrin's green eyes offset Reynardine's yellow eyes, and it's probably just a coincedence they've both chosen wolves. Reynardine is also referred to as a criminal, while Ysengrin a general. I'd bet Reynardine was once Gunnerkrigg's "ambassador" in these regional meetings, until he took some sort of questionable action that resulted in his criminal stigma. The Headmaster's surprise at Ysengrin's appearance also points toward Ysengrin being a demon like Reynardine. Ysengrin is probably just a wolf with a cloak, and the wood arms are probably from those seeds seen earlier in the chapter.
.. and to bring this back on topic, we can watch the Headmaster's reaction to Reynardine to see if he judges Rey and Ysengrin on the same level.

[iralie]

Saying that he may take a different attitude towards Rey as he is not part of a official diplomatic group and also a criminal; and depending on why Rey is regarded as such could have some influence over the attitude too.

I'm also expecting some major outcry against Reynardine from Ysengrin which the Headmaster may swiftly cut down as I'm not sure who else their could cut an argument of his short.

[Boksha]

dork457 said:

OVER NINE THOUSSANNDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Whatninethousand?!
That clip is particularly funny when compared to the same part with japanese audio. What the hell were the US voice actors thinking? (actually, I wonder why they translated 8000 with 9000 anyway)

ptolluvux said:

Anja's powers are obviously of unnatural origin, and I'm not sure Eglamore's "super strength" is completely training either. That "single bound" leap he took near the beginning of the current chapter doesn't seem attainable by normal means...
... plus he's ridiculously buff.

Well obviously a world with demons and magic doesn't have to follow the rules we're used to. It's kind of like the flying ninja thing. Ninjas are supposed to be regular humans (perhaps with unusual talents) but in movies they always do stuff that's obviously impossible, supposedly made possible through rigorous training. It's not much of a stretch to assume GC is like that. In fact, we've already seen regular people can choose to turn into birds and then proceed to do so.

[pudgimelon]

pudgimelon said:

It seems there is a heirarchy of power level and supernatural ability in the world of GunnerKrigg.

God-like creatures like Coyote .....
Just under them are supernatural beings and demons like Renardine and Ysengrin. ......

So with the revelation that Coyote and Renardine are "cousins", does that change things or not?

Ysengrin has called Coyote, "Lord", which would seem to indicate that he's not as powerful as Coyote, but he seems to speak to Renardine as if they are equals, so it's unclear what that implies about Renardine.

Coyote's immortal and can create races of people, so he's still one of the most powerful beings we've seen, so I can't imagine Eglamore being able to defeat him (like Renardine).

Then again, many mythologies are filled with stories about humans managing to defeat or trick gods. Sometimes through straight up combat, but it can often involve flattering the god and puffing up it's pride in order to deceive it or distract it.

Coyote could certainly be "defeated" in that manner. Maybe not by Eglamore, but I think Antimony could "trick" him or flatter him in a manner similar to what she did with doorbot.

She's a very honest person at heart, but even Renardine is in awe of her "powers of deception". So perhaps the "cousins" require different tactics to defeat.

Still, Eglamore was able to put out a can of whoopass on Renardine, so I wonder if he'd be able to do the same with Coyote?

Hmmm.....

[aoeniac]

Just to bring up a point of wild speculation, if Coyote is a god of nature, and Gillitie is in diametric opposition with the Court, then you could call the Headmaster a god of technology/science/alchemy. I mean that in two ways. He COULD be a literal god of such things, although it is doubtful. It's much more fitting to call him a god of technology IN THAT he simply operates the Gunnerkrigg Court, which is very powerful in its own right.

Also, I have come to believe that Anja is either a specialist or authority of the Court designated to study and utilize the magic utilized by the non-technological residents of the forest and act as an adviser on magical issues... OR... she's not using magic at all, but rather sufficiently advanced technology (ALCHEMY?)

[Mezzaphor]

aoeniac said:

OR... she's not using magic at all, but rather sufficiently advanced technology (ALCHEMY?)

Hmm... She is a science teacher.

[pudgimelon]

aoeniac said:

Just to bring up a point of wild speculation, if Coyote is a god of nature, and Gillitie is in diametric opposition with the Court, then you could call the Headmaster a god of technology/science/alchemy. I mean that in two ways. He COULD be a literal god of such things, although it is doubtful. It's much more fitting to call him a god of technology IN THAT he simply operates the Gunnerkrigg Court, which is very powerful in its own right.

Technology might have "gods" in Gunnerkrigg, but so far we haven't seen anything like that yet.

On the one hand, some mythologies have "gods of technology" like Vulcan or Prometheus, and alchemy is a pretty major theme in the Court, so they are not practicing "pure science". Rather it seems more like "magical science" with things like anti-grav generators and crying robots, etc...

On the other hand, science is traditionally seen in opposition to myth, because it defines itself as the bastion of fact and "truth" in a world full of ignorance and, well, myth. We see that in Gunnerkrigg too in things like the great divide between the forest and the Court.

So I'm not sure if we'll see "technology gods" or not in GC, but if we do, I'd venture a guess that they'd be "technology incarnate", such as an android or an AI.

I'm sure the forest denizens would look at an android as an abomination (technology "infecting" or "replacing" nature), but an android or AI would certainly be "god-like" and quite powerful on the same scale as Coyote (immortal, able to create "races", etc...).

That's a possibility for the Headmaster. He might be cybernetic in some way or not.

I'm curious to find out more about him.

[Aspen d'Grey]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, is v. late here, but, I don't think that Ysengrin is on exactly the same level as Reynardine- I think Rey is normally a step or staircase above him, but, since he's controlled by Annie, he's drawn down to a more normal level.

Muut, I think is 'higher' or maybe just 'different' than Coyote... But I wouldn't call him lower. Hmm. Good topic, though, I'll have to think about this when I'm supposed to be studying. =D

[pudgimelon]

aspengrey said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned, is v. late here, but, I don't think that Ysengrin is on exactly the same level as Reynardine- I think Rey is normally a step or staircase above him, but, since he's controlled by Annie, he's drawn down to a more normal level.

Muut, I think is 'higher' or maybe just 'different' than Coyote... But I wouldn't call him lower. Hmm. Good topic, though, I'll have to think about this when I'm supposed to be studying. =D

Agreed, Muut is a Death-god (or at the very least, a Styxian ferryman), so he probably operates under a different set of rules than Coyote. My guess is that those rules are probably self-imposed too (he's a god-like being after all). So Muut's probably more of a "natural order" guy who stays out of things for the most part, while Coyote likes to jump right in and mix things up a bit.

That might actually put limits on Muut's actions, even those he may possess power equal to or greater than Coyote. For example, Muut might be capable of pimp-slapping Ysengrin around as if wolfman was a little girl, but I highly doubt Muut would ever want to put himself in a situation where that'd be necessary.

Coyote, we've correctly guessed, is definitely a tier above Ysengrin (at least). In fact, Coyote's off the frigg'n scale. Immortal, glass-eyed-race-creating, house-sized dog-gods are definitely in a division all their own. Coyote might play tier-2 ball with the kiddies some times, but he's clearly doing it for chuckles (and probably his own, hidden agenda).

The only big question mark that remains is Renardine. On the one hand, he's a disembodied demon with the ability to possess people, which frankly, isn't much compared to what Coyote can do (and given the fact that he's currently under the control of a little girl). On the other hand, Coyote calls him "cousin", has clearly gone to great lengths to capture/kill him, and Coyote also seemed to be circling Renardine, as if to give him a wide berth while he played his cunning game.

So either Renardine is "related" to Coyote in some way or he is "valuable" to Coyote in some way, we just don't know yet. And even if they are "related", that still doesn't mean that Renardine is in in Coyote's class.

One person we have to change in the rankings is Don. Since we didn't know anything about him before, and he seemed a bit of a straight-man, my initial thoughts were that he was just a science teacher married to a mystic.

But it seems he's capable of some serious magic as well. Being able to thwart Ysengrin's attack puts him in the same ranks as Eglamore, perhaps even higher.

People have been speculating about whether or not it was multiple people casting multiple shields or one person casting them all.

Personally, I don't think it matters. Even if Don didn't cast multi-shields, it was HIS shield that held, so that might even mean that he out-classes Anja.

Either way, he's definitely not just a science teacher.

[Boksha]

aoeniac said:

Also, I have come to believe that Anja is either a specialist or authority of the Court designated to study and utilize the magic utilized by the non-technological residents of the forest and act as an adviser on magical issues... OR... she's not using magic at all, but rather sufficiently advanced technology (ALCHEMY?)

I'm guessing it's the latter. But how does that exclude it from being magic as well?

[Aspen d'Grey]

"Any suffeciently advaced magic is indistuigishable from technology."

Or, if you want the original...
"Any suffeciently advanced technology is indistinguisable from magic." <<<ok, so, I cant decide how to spell it. Now it's -early- here.

[rastarogue]

Please lets not start the magic debate again. For those who haven't seen it look around it should stilll be somewhere.

Power wise this is how I people would rank as of now:
Coyote
Reynardine
Eglamore, Don, Anja

Muut, in his own catagory.
Anthony, Headmaster I don't know enough.

[UbiquitousDragon]

aspengrey said:

"Any suffeciently advaced magic is indistuigishable from technology."

Or, if you want the original...
"Any suffeciently advanced technology is indistinguisable from magic." <<<ok, so, I cant decide how to spell it. Now it's -early- here.

I think this page from Undertow sums it up nicely: Human "Magick"


Okies, enough magic vs. science debate. Where would you lovely folks rank Annie? As a Medium she seems pretty 'powerful', or as Mort put it 'attractive' ;D She can see and talk to the guides which Mort also said was pretty rare and I'm sure there more to Annie's talents

[spritznar]

i don't know that you can rank annie in with them. i think she'd be in a seperate category because her powers and abilities aren't offensive or defensive, they're more... strategic.

[pudgimelon]

I thought it would be fun to make a list of the characters by "power-level", at least how I'd rank them.

I got a bit carried away. It's a loooooong pic, so have fun scrolling!

I'll post my reasoning below. Here's the list: