Kriselia
Junior Member
But she smells wonderful!
Posts: 87
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Post by Kriselia on May 16, 2012 21:24:17 GMT
I am still holding on to my theory that this process is mostly about Kat and this is the process of her going through her feelings about her friendship with Annie, her insecurities, and a way of unifying some of the inconsistencies and confusion she has been feeling. I'm rather partial to your theory too. After the summer shenanigans Annie's been a lot more open around people other than Kat and we've had several chapters now with minimal screentime from Kat. Especially since the last chapter had Annie deal with the major issue of her relationship with her dad with no input at all from Kat, she could be feeling very alienated at the moment. The hospital setting fits it too, a variation on losing her best friend. Also, her insecurities concerning her sexuality seem to just shine through in the last panel, that's one seriously embarassed/guilty face! The positioning of ZimmyBob in the back could be Kat's anxiety of someone happening upon the scene and interpreting it the wrong way.
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Post by Lightice on May 16, 2012 21:25:27 GMT
5: Annie and Kat are not together. Tom said so himself many times on his FormspringObviously not. I haven't seen anyone in this thread claim anything different. This is that other annoying side of this stupid shipper war that I don't like, the denial that anything is going on. Kat's character arc is currently dealing with the question of what her sexual identity will be, and the final answer is completely indetermined to either direction, as far as we readers can tell. Let the story determine what will happen instead of making hasty decisions about what you find "obvious". Could we please stop speculating about the matter pointlessly until the comic gives any kind of indication to one way or the other?
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Post by nero on May 16, 2012 21:35:20 GMT
It does seem that Zimmy is taking Bob's place in Annie's memory. We can't see it in panel 2 but if that's her in the last one, then she's also wearing Bob's hat and she has pants now. I was wondering why Zimmy's clothes looked like that in the second panel and I was going to bring it up, but this explained everything. If you compare the coloring and shading of this page to the original that it is flashing back to, Zimmy's jacket is now emulating Bob's. Very cool. Thanks Nero. You're welcome Jay. I think that Zimmy takes what she sees and mixes herself in it. She confused herself for Annie and now she's taking on Bob's look. Perhaps the reason she didn't want to come is that the more she takes in, the more she loses own identity.
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Post by bedinsis on May 16, 2012 21:39:51 GMT
Looking through the archives I found this page. I wonder if Jones's lecture of "letting emotions get the better of her" had a kind of pull back effect from Annie opening up to the forest people. And Annie's mind wandering off to the moment she very much opened up the last time.
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Post by GK Sierra on May 16, 2012 21:50:13 GMT
5: Annie and Kat are not together. Tom said so himself many times on his FormspringObviously not. I haven't seen anyone in this thread claim anything different. This is that other annoying side of this stupid shipper war that I don't like, the denial that anything is going on. Kat's character arc is currently dealing with the question of what her sexual identity will be, and the final answer is completely indetermined to either direction, as far as we readers can tell. Let the story determine what will happen instead of making hasty decisions about what you find "obvious". Could we please stop speculating about the matter pointlessly until the comic gives any kind of indication to one way or the other? I think you have "war" mixed up with "slight disagreement". Some people think it will be a big issue in the comic, some don't, both positions have plenty of evidence to support their claim, but they are just that, positions, not sides. If there was an armed mob holding a banner saying "KAT IS TOO A LESBION HARUMPH" and killing people who disagreed, THAT would be a war. Tom hasn't said one way or another, and I suspect the "Kat issue" will probably be resolved fairly innocuously, at least in comparison to the amount of speculation it has received.
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Post by mclean on May 16, 2012 22:16:56 GMT
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Post by mclean on May 16, 2012 22:18:42 GMT
er... sorry if you all have discussed this already!
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Post by Lightice on May 16, 2012 22:34:46 GMT
I think you have "war" mixed up with "slight disagreement". Some people think it will be a big issue in the comic, some don't, both positions have plenty of evidence to support their claim, but they are just that, positions, not sides. I just find it annoying that people are forming such strong opinions with so little to work with. I can see things going in lots of interesting ways, hopefully involving some quality character development in the process, but I honestly have no idea what the end result could be. I just hope that the subject is dealt with maturely now that it's been brought up, rather than just brushed aside, but I really don't think we need to fear that, either. The important thing at the moment is that whatever is the case, Kat is currently very insecure about her position, and at some point Annie needs to be brought in to provide support for her. I find the plotline interesting, no matter what way it'll play out.
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Post by elppa284 on May 16, 2012 23:34:12 GMT
Wow. Just...wow. That last panel really hit me hard. Ugh. Wow. I actually have a lot of emotions right now because of this page. That's beautiful work Mr. Tom.
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Post by Raph on May 17, 2012 0:24:56 GMT
Also, her insecurities concerning her sexuality seem to just shine through in the last panel, that's one seriously embarrassed/guilty face! The positioning of ZimmyBob in the back could be Kat's anxiety of someone happening upon the scene and interpreting it the wrong way. That seems right, I was wondering why was she looking the other way. You may have just convinced me this chapter is about Kat. But I will also stick to my theory that by suppressing her emotions, Annie has (at least) dimmed her inner fire, whatever that may be.
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bingli
Full Member
creepin' creepin'
Posts: 104
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Post by bingli on May 17, 2012 0:37:10 GMT
Bingli believe me everyone has made a Kat*Antimony post/thread at least once. We have discussed it to death and whenever asked Tom denies that they are interested in each other in that way. We just sort of assume that even when it looks like lesbians it's not. EDIT:Can we please stop saying katimony? It is super obnoxious. Waaait a second. I never said I was shipping them or think they should be together. I just think that during this chapter we are (somewhat) in Kat's head while she figures out her feelings about the friendship. You can have feelings about a friendship and not automatically be in a romantic relationship. EDIT: and I use the word 'feelings' meaning like, confusion, betrayal, mistrust, estrangement, hope, compassion...not like "oh i have feelings for her" feelings. Is it not perfectly plausible to have insecurities about how a friendship is going or how important you are to someone you care about who is not someone you are romantically interested in? I think its normal to want to be important in someone's life as a friend or supporter. If she is having lesbian-ish imagery in her mind it could just be insecurites seeping in due to what other people keep on implying, it doesnt automatically mean that 'Kat is gay!". This could also be about Kat realizing that despite all the changes, she is still a very important person to Annie and knows about her in a very deep way because of the past that they share. i'll just repeat it again to make it more concise: i think people can sometimes have to take a step back and look at the big picture about a friendship without it being because they have romantic feelings for said friend. there.
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Post by AluK on May 17, 2012 0:40:51 GMT
I think that maybe, and just maybe, Kamlen and Jones, in the previous page, were just stand-ins for the Forest and the Court. It wasn't really about Annie courting Kamlen as much as Annie courting the Forest, her etheric side. About the mask, it definitely makes sense that it stands for her unflappable façade.
On the other hand, I think it has nothing to do with what's happening with Antimony right now. It's just a feeling, but Tom loves to throw these curve balls. It's an important development, sure, it shows an important thing about Annie, but it's not important to the plot at hand. Or, maybe, I'm completely wrong. Probably both.
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Post by GK Sierra on May 17, 2012 1:13:16 GMT
Wow. Just...wow. That last panel really hit me hard. Ugh. Wow. I actually have a lot of emotions right now because of this page. That's beautiful work Mr. Tom. Its part of the reason I keep coming back to this little stretch of internet. Tom knows how to pluck heartstrings with the big-timers.
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Post by descoladavirus on May 17, 2012 2:16:11 GMT
I think everyone needs to calm down and take the advice of some very wise posters here in not making any judgements one way or another whether Kat is gay, interested in pursuing or creating a more than platonic relationship with Annie, until Tom or the story says one way or the other. I do remember a plethora of questions about it on Tom's formspring that weren't answered very definitively, but better than nothing. I'll try to find some of them if it helps this issue rest for a while, but please, just give it a rest. They don't appear to still be there. I just went through every question still on there to try and find them and didn't succeed. That said I found some helpful questions for everyone: 4ms.me/Juxa3P4ms.me/KRbEWr
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Post by GK Sierra on May 17, 2012 5:08:19 GMT
I think everyone needs to calm down and take the advice of some very wise posters here in not making any judgements one way or another whether Kat is gay, interested in pursuing or creating a more than platonic relationship with Annie, until Tom or the story says one way or the other. I do remember a plethora of questions about it on Tom's formspring that weren't answered very definitively, but better than nothing. I'll try to find some of them if it helps this issue rest for a while, but please, just give it a rest. They don't appear to still be there. I just went through every question still on there to try and find them and didn't succeed. That said I found some helpful questions for everyone: 4ms.me/Juxa3P4ms.me/KRbEWrIs Kat a lesbian? "We shall see" I think that's about as ambiguous as it is possible to be.
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Post by Belrisa on May 17, 2012 6:15:59 GMT
Heh. I have been a lurker for ages and I can verify that Annie/Kat is discussed all the time.
Are people here homophobic? Probably some people, but most people are cool. I would say the community is generally very open minded and friendly.
The comments on the main page have a lot of homophobia. The comments here are better.
My Advice: if you want to talk about Kat/Annie, just start talking about it. Don't ask why people don't talk about it. As amusingly meta as this all is, discussions about discussions get nowhere fast.
~ Observations from an outsider.
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Post by negativeproximity on May 17, 2012 6:23:51 GMT
As for the last panel of todays page, if anyone recalls that's much the same reaction that Kat had originally to Annie breaking down and crying. She hadn't known how to respond and take care of things too well. If I recall. I am part of anyone.
Everyone keeps trying to imply that Kat is sexually confused right now. I never got that vibe from it. Kat was shocked when Paz seemed to thing that Kat was hitting on her. Her actions and reactions from that point then seemed to me like she was trying to make SURE that nobody would make such an assumption again.
Of course, it's entirely possible that that would happen due to her being heavily closeted. I don't think I've read anything that would give me that impression in the comic itself though.
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Post by GK Sierra on May 17, 2012 6:36:37 GMT
As amusingly meta as this all is, discussions about discussions get nowhere fast. This forum in one sentence. Impressive.
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Post by rafk on May 17, 2012 7:34:34 GMT
I got a theory on what's wrong with Annie: she isn't here. She has taken advantage of her new found ability to completely detach from her body to go hunting around the globe for her dad. That.... is a very good theory as to why Annie isn't there, although it doesn't explain what's going on with Zimmy or what Zimmy is seeing. Also, the Court should know all there is to know about bodies with detached etheric selves, seeing as they have classrooms full of students doing just that. I'm still worried about the shot of Annie and the spider in the 4th treatise (especially since Zimmy is back on the scene).
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Post by mcbibble on May 17, 2012 11:40:21 GMT
. My Advice: if you want to talk about Kat/Annie, just start talking about it. Don't ask why people don't talk about it. As amusingly meta as this all is, discussions about discussions get nowhere fast. ~ Observations from an outsider. Haha, I can't argue with that logic. Alright, then. Here's the thing. I think its possible that what we're seeing is what it appears to be; Annie is for some reason in a coma and zimmy is delving in to find out why. I don't know that what we're seeing is the explanation or just what she's coming across on the way down into Annie's subconscious- which would mean the hospital should be next? I haven't enough info to figure out the logistics of the head pigeon, but I think that pigeons are a great motif for kat for a variety of reasons! Birds (which kat has a lingering fondness for ) that have become totally adapted to the urban environment. Plain and unflashy creatures, Kat has a relationship with a significant pigeon etc etc. (and there's probably a lot more on a deeply symbolic level I don't understand, ha.) So what we're seeing is Kat's importance to Annie, which has never been in question really. When kat's in trouble, Annie goes all terminator. Kat's look of anxiety does make me question who we're seeing, I guess, as it's new. And the head pigeon. Oh, alright, I've talked myself into a confusion again. I suppose if Annie was worried about kat and had some idea about the source of her recent trouble, Zimmy might be the right person for her to talk to. I mean, it's hard to quantify her relationship with gamma, which seems almost parental in a lot of ways but which is loving without a doubt, so she would have insight into some of this maybe. Hmm
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Post by GK Sierra on May 17, 2012 13:54:14 GMT
I'm still worried about the shot of Annie and the spider in the 4th treatise (especially since Zimmy is back on the scene). Yeah, I've been thinking about that myself. She wouldn't just be cupping a white-legs in her hand for nothing, just like Kat isn't cupping a pair of birds for no reason.
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Post by arf on May 18, 2012 0:36:14 GMT
Things I note: - Kat is now in the picture (is that Kat or a memory?) - as has been noted, Kat is a lot self-conscious in this shot than last time. - I had initially thought the background figure was Robot coming out of the forest but, on closer looks, I agree it's Zimmy (also 'in the picture')
I suspect Kat is now 'getting this'
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Post by lunaryon on May 18, 2012 3:38:41 GMT
Okay. Honestly, I think my biggest concern is what is the red stuff on their clothes in the last panel? Is it blood?
Heres a rather random thought. What if this is not Zimmy looking at Annie's Past, but a giant Foreshadowing of what's to come?What if this is what is symbollic of what is going to happen?
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Post by goldenknots on May 18, 2012 4:17:30 GMT
Okay. Honestly, I think my biggest concern is what is the red stuff on their clothes in the last panel? Is it blood? Nope. Cherry juice stains. :)
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Post by Belrisa on May 18, 2012 5:08:27 GMT
I suspect Kat is now 'getting this' I agree. I think that's why Kat looks worried, and why she has a pigeon on her head.
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Post by Belrisa on May 18, 2012 5:10:35 GMT
This forum in one sentence. Impressive. Thank you!
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Post by Belrisa on May 18, 2012 5:34:27 GMT
Haha, I can't argue with that logic. Alright, then. Here's the thing. I think its possible that what we're seeing is what it appears to be; Annie is for some reason in a coma and zimmy is delving in to find out why. I don't know that what we're seeing is the explanation or just what she's coming across on the way down into Annie's subconscious- which would mean the hospital should be next? I haven't enough info to figure out the logistics of the head pigeon, but I think that pigeons are a great motif for kat for a variety of reasons! Birds (which kat has a lingering fondness for ) that have become totally adapted to the urban environment. Plain and unflashy creatures, Kat has a relationship with a significant pigeon etc etc. (and there's probably a lot more on a deeply symbolic level I don't understand, ha.) So what we're seeing is Kat's importance to Annie, which has never been in question really. When kat's in trouble, Annie goes all terminator. Kat's look of anxiety does make me question who we're seeing, I guess, as it's new. And the head pigeon. Oh, alright, I've talked myself into a confusion again. I suppose if Annie was worried about kat and had some idea about the source of her recent trouble, Zimmy might be the right person for her to talk to. I mean, it's hard to quantify her relationship with gamma, which seems almost parental in a lot of ways but which is loving without a doubt, so she would have insight into some of this maybe. Hmm This is definitely one of the most interesting Annie/Kat pages, as was the original scene that is being mirrored. I am inclined to go with the simplest explanation: Zimmy is helping Annie. This is Annie's subconscious. We're seeing a lot of surreal imagery because Annie is basically dreaming, and so a lot of what we're seeing is going to be pretty random. It shows what is on Annie's mind, filtered through teenage hormones, with a good dose of chaos thrown into the mix. I think that Annie is still processing Mom/Dad issues. I mean, why did she go into the forest? Because she learned that she "killed" her mom. Why was she crying in the orchard? Because her mom died. This is massively unfinished business for Annie, and she's still bottling it up inside. Now, I don't know if that explains Annie being in a coma. There are probably a few things going on here. I like the theory that she sent the blinker stone off in the rocket and hurt herself, but honestly I'm sure Tom is going to surprise us, and the real answer isn't something we could guess.
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Post by warrl on May 18, 2012 23:13:00 GMT
Actually, he {Tom} always refrains from saying anything meaningul. He never gives a "yes" or "no" on any subject that involves future plotlines. That isn't quite accurate. Once there was a series of posts on the Questions to Tom thread (which is long since dead because he announced that he was stopping answering them), most with multiple plot-relevant questions. And Tom came back with a clear, unequivocal, unqualified "Yes". Of course, it wasn't qualified with anything to specify what question(s) it applied to, either.
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