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Post by Elaienar on Oct 9, 2010 3:21:06 GMT
Annie: And then the rain made the world melt away and it turned out it wasn't me after all, it was really Zimmy and Zimmy was really me. Parley: But then how did you know everything she and Gamma said? And why didn't you explain anything about what you and Jack were doing? Annie: Best not to ask. I also am eager to learn how exactly that worked. Did Zimmy also somehow absorb Antimony's memories and transfer her own to Antimony? Was Antimony not aware that she looked like Zimmy? Were we simply seeing everything from Zimmy's perspective? Would that mean that memory!Jack, spider!Jack, Gamma, and Antimony all saw each other and Zimmy as they would appear in the real world? SO MANY QUESTIONS. ...Back on topic, I think that Smitty's "aw dang she let go" face is the first thing I noticed on this page. Then later I went back and read all the words and stuff.
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Post by warrl on Oct 9, 2010 3:47:47 GMT
Good point, Jeanne can't trap Parley if she's there in the flesh. I hadn't thought of that. She can defend herself, and teleport out if things get too bad. Or just teleport 5 feet away until Jeanne gets the idea. If they have D&D in that world, it would make perfect sense for Parley to play a feycharger.
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Post by atteSmythe on Oct 9, 2010 3:59:12 GMT
Of course, the current faculty wouldn't know anything about Jeanne because of the Founders' cover-up (presumably the cover-up extended to the Founders not passing the information on to their successors, intending that it would die with them - which it would have done if Diego's weak-but-active conscience hadn't led to his including Jeanne's memory in the robots' programming) - and I don't think, anyway, that Eglamore, Mr. and Mrs. Donlan, the Headmaster, and the rest would stoop to the level of "Who else have you told about this?" "Nobody" "Good" - pulls out a gun.... No, no...but they were all quite willing to painfully imprison Reynardine to keep the Court safe. Would they feel so differently about someone who died a couple hundred years ago? Would Annie even take that chance? Beyond them, would they really keep it to themselves and vow to do the right thing, or to them is the 'right thing' sending this information higher up the chain of authority? Keep in mind that this is the organization apparently rather casually experimenting on the ether, which Rey has told is is the fabric of creation itself... I don't know what the right answer is, but I certainly understand the hesitation.
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Post by Casey on Oct 9, 2010 4:04:23 GMT
I think that Smitty's "aw dang she let go" face is the first thing I noticed on this page. I dunno, I have to say, I think it's a little bit insulting to the sensibilities of a boy like Smitty to think that, in light of all that just happened and the dangerous thing that his girlfriend just proposed. the only thing going through his mind is "Aw she let go of my hand". He's 15, not 5. He's probably thinking about being worried about her going back to face the ghost that almost skewered her. I really think "Aw she let go of my hand, my world is crushed" is beneath him.
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Post by warrl on Oct 9, 2010 4:10:23 GMT
No, no...but they were all quite willing to painfully imprison Reynardine to keep the Court safe. Reynardine committed murder. And the pain was apparently a consequence of his escape attempt. I don't think they would feel all that much differently, but (a) as far as they know, Jeanne has not killed anyone in the Court, and (b) there's a good chance that some competent ethericists could find a way to break the binding on Jeanne, after which Annie or a psychopomp could lead her to, um, wherever - eliminating the problem of Jeanne entirely. (What problems might arise because of no-Jeanne... to be determined.) My big thought is that the adults would want to first protect the kids, probably by forbidding them from attempting to go into the chasm or contact Jeanne (with some enforcement mechanism, perhaps); and after that they would... eventually... assign some of the least appropriate people they have to the task. Such is the way of bureaucracy. They NEED the ethericists on this: Annie, Parley, Mrs. Donlan, maybe Eglamore and a few others. They would GET Randy Disaster, the unnamed teacher on page 15, maybe the Headmaster...
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Post by jayne on Oct 9, 2010 4:16:59 GMT
I think that Smitty's "aw dang she let go" face is the first thing I noticed on this page. I dunno, I have to say, I think it's a little bit insulting to the sensibilities of a boy like Smitty to think that, in light of all that just happened and the dangerous thing that his girlfriend just proposed. the only thing going through his mind is "Aw she let go of my hand". He's 15, not 5. He's probably thinking about being worried about her going back to face the ghost that almost skewered her. I really think "Aw she let go of my hand, my world is crushed" is beneath him. My official guess is that, come Monday, Smitty finally gets assertive and tells her she can't do something so dangerous! As far as Parley listening... that's anyone's guess!
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Post by Elaienar on Oct 9, 2010 4:42:40 GMT
I dunno, I have to say, I think it's a little bit insulting to the sensibilities of a boy like Smitty to think that, in light of all that just happened and the dangerous thing that his girlfriend just proposed. the only thing going through his mind is "Aw she let go of my hand". He's 15, not 5. He's probably thinking about being worried about her going back to face the ghost that almost skewered her. I really think "Aw she let go of my hand, my world is crushed" is beneath him. My official guess is that, come Monday, Smitty finally gets assertive and tells her she can't do something so dangerous! As far as Parley listening... that's anyone's guess! ...Until you said that it had not occurred to me at all that Smitty might try to stop Parley. Wouldn't that be like trying to hold a hurricane back with a colander?
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Chrome
Full Member
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Post by Chrome on Oct 9, 2010 5:46:27 GMT
Yeah stopping her's impossible. Getting her to at least watch out for herself's easy. Smitty, kiss her you big-eyebrowed dolt, and tell her how you feel. That will get through when nothing else does, as you've the key to her shining heart.
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Post by tyler on Oct 9, 2010 6:01:35 GMT
Annie: And then I met this girl named George. Parley: T_T I was there. That was me.
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Post by todd on Oct 9, 2010 10:41:27 GMT
The comments on how Annie oughtn't to be able to know many of the things that happened in the comic may explain why Annie's narration last appeared in Chapter Fifteen. Tom may have concluded that, with the scope of the comic expanding beyond Annie's adventures, it no longer fitted so well as in the early chapters when the story stuck close to her.
From a metafictional point of view, Annie's reluctance to involve the adults is not surprising; the moment the adults find out, they'll take over the situation, forbid the kids to get involved in it any further, and sort it out themselves. Which would obviously create problems for a story where the kids were the protagonists.
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Post by hal9000 on Oct 9, 2010 11:35:21 GMT
I think that Smitty's "aw dang she let go" face is the first thing I noticed on this page. I dunno, I have to say, I think it's a little bit insulting to the sensibilities of a boy like Smitty to think that, in light of all that just happened and the dangerous thing that his girlfriend just proposed. the only thing going through his mind is "Aw she let go of my hand". He's 15, not 5. He's probably thinking about being worried about her going back to face the ghost that almost skewered her. I really think "Aw she let go of my hand, my world is crushed" is beneath him. I think you might have an overly-positive estimation of the mindset of the average teenage boy.
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lovecraft1024
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What does anything mean? Basically
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Post by lovecraft1024 on Oct 9, 2010 15:02:18 GMT
I dunno, I have to say, I think it's a little bit insulting to the sensibilities of a boy like Smitty to think that, in light of all that just happened and the dangerous thing that his girlfriend just proposed. the only thing going through his mind is "Aw she let go of my hand". He's 15, not 5. He's probably thinking about being worried about her going back to face the ghost that almost skewered her. I really think "Aw she let go of my hand, my world is crushed" is beneath him. I think you might have an overly-positive estimation of the mindset of the average teenage boy. Thank you! Was thinking the same thing, but with less eloquence. It's still possible for Smitty to do all these honorable things that have been mentioned, but I think it's pretty improbable. I mean, we're talking about the guy who lets Parley treat him like a chew toy, because she's hotter than hell...
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rageboy
Junior Member
just like real cows! only with lasers.
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Post by rageboy on Oct 9, 2010 15:11:39 GMT
The comments on how Annie oughtn't to be able to know many of the things that happened in the comic may explain why Annie's narration last appeared in Chapter Fifteen. Tom may have concluded that, with the scope of the comic expanding beyond Annie's adventures, it no longer fitted so well as in the early chapters when the story stuck close to her. From a metafictional point of view, Annie's reluctance to involve the adults is not surprising; the moment the adults find out, they'll take over the situation, forbid the kids to get involved in it any further, and sort it out themselves. Which would obviously create problems for a story where the kids were the protagonists. I was thinking similarly, but I feel like her reluctance is partly also based on the poor decisions the court tends to make about s*it like this. We still don't know exactly why Jeanne's down there: just her side of the story and part of Diego's. Nothing that specifically says what she's doing there or how she's a barrier anymore (bridge, much?). But I think Annie feels she can't trust the adults because they're filter the information and only use the facts they think are convenient, completely ignoring parts of Annie's tale because she's a kid, so she doesn't want to bring them in just yet. At least until she has a good idea what's going on and what needs to be done about it. I doubt the issue at hand will be resolved without any adult involvement, but I don't think adult involvement will happen for a while yet.
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rageboy
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just like real cows! only with lasers.
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Post by rageboy on Oct 9, 2010 15:14:26 GMT
I think you might have an overly-positive estimation of the mindset of the average teenage boy. Thank you! Was thinking the same thing, but with less eloquence. It's still possible for Smitty to do all these honorable things that have been mentioned, but I think it's pretty improbable. I mean, we're talking about the guy who lets Parley treat him like a chew toy, because she's hotter than hell... +1. At least on hal's comment. I think that the thoughts Casey mentioned may have crossed his mind (and he's probably considering them), but I think all of it's overshadowed by "hot girl" (hormones and that).
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Post by Fhqwhgads on Oct 9, 2010 16:22:59 GMT
Annie: And then I met this girl named George. Parley: T_T I was there. That was me. HAH ;D </thread>
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Post by Mezzaphor on Oct 9, 2010 22:03:03 GMT
The comments on how Annie oughtn't to be able to know many of the things that happened in the comic may explain why Annie's narration last appeared in Chapter Fifteen. Tom may have concluded that, with the scope of the comic expanding beyond Annie's adventures, it no longer fitted so well as in the early chapters when the story stuck close to her. Of course, Annie's narration was never "current"; it was looking back on the events from at least two years afterwards. It's entirely possible that, sometime between these events and Annie deciding to tell her story, researched to find out some of what happened when she was not around.
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Post by todd on Oct 9, 2010 22:10:28 GMT
Of course, Annie's narration was never "current"; it was looking back on the events from at least two years afterwards. It's entirely possible that, sometime between these events and Annie deciding to tell her story, researched to find out some of what happened when she was not around. True. Though we know that one chapter at least (the Skywatcher chapter) was narrated by Skywatcher rather than by her.
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Post by jayne on Oct 9, 2010 22:19:39 GMT
Of course, Annie's narration was never "current"; it was looking back on the events from at least two years afterwards. It's entirely possible that, sometime between these events and Annie deciding to tell her story, researched to find out some of what happened when she was not around. True. Though we know that one chapter at least (the Skywatcher chapter) was narrated by Skywatcher rather than by her. Ah but the skywatcher would have been able to replay the entire scene to Annie! One of the benefits of a digital memory!
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Post by todd on Oct 10, 2010 0:16:26 GMT
Of course, there might be another practical advantage (besides the widening of the canvas in the more recent chapters so that the focus shifts more to the supporting cast than in the early chapters) to the dropping of Annie's narration. If she's telling the story now, from the perspective of its end, then that means that she survives and comes out all right, which could potentially hinder the suspense. (Though there have been first-person narratives where the narrator meets a horrible end - H. P. Lovecraft wrote several.)
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Post by jayne on Oct 10, 2010 1:57:07 GMT
The narrator in the book Galapago has been dead for a million years at the telling of the story. There's already enough ghosts and spirits in this story that its not impossible that the narrator eventually becomes one. (I doubt it though)
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Chrome
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Post by Chrome on Oct 10, 2010 2:57:28 GMT
Annie might come out all right, but everyone else is a big question mark, really.
Look what happened to Jeanne!
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Post by Casey on Oct 10, 2010 3:02:41 GMT
I think you might have an overly-positive estimation of the mindset of the average teenage boy. I dunno, I think you folks have an overly negative estimation of the mindset of the average teenage boy, and I do volunteer work with teenagers every week.
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Alex
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Post by Alex on Oct 10, 2010 9:27:40 GMT
"The Court" killed her? It's not a sentient creat... Then again, Jones did once say that "the court has a way of making decisions" in a way that suggests it is its own entity. Still, no one who was in any way involved in that decision is still alive today. And why would you honor Young's decision to keep their actions hidden? The Court is a longstanding institution. While the people in it today aren't the same as those at its founding, they have a continuity of purpose and character.
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Brinunah
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Post by Brinunah on Oct 10, 2010 9:37:35 GMT
That group of people is also DEAD in its entirety. Jeanne was not killed by "the Court" she was killed by a collection of individual people, all of whom are responsible for their decisions. Just because someone works for Gunnerkrigg Court now, that doesn't make them a part of that group that killed Jeanne. Too much is unknown about the actual workings of the court. Its been proven that the people who established the court were willing to do what they did to Jeanne. What if nothing has changed and the current people running the court are willing to do something similar. Well, I would like to point out that on page 656 (Skywatcher) that one man DOES walk out of this "abhorrent" project, proving that not evryone in the court is okay with this. One man even asks if it has to be Jeanne and refers t her as the sacrafice. Maybe these men were led to believe they were doing good? After all, good intentions often lead to horrible events (like Boxbot). ;D
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Post by TBeholder on Oct 10, 2010 14:02:26 GMT
They skipped the Cursed Teapot saga and ignored Boxbot's contributions entirely, of course. Sounds like them. Parley has her game face on, and she's never been hotter. Usually we just don't see her figure all that well. Bared shoulder aside, that is. As to the face, see " showing off Smitty" episode. Andrew is...a lot more sensible than Kat and Annie,in that he actually wants to tell someone(most likely one of the teachers/staff),whereas Annie and Kat tend not to like involving the adults. "sensible"=="dependent"? Presumably because they have no way of knowing whether the person to whom they tell their tale is likely to make them vanish in the same way Jeanne did This seems to be extremely unlikely, but still even the remote possibility to get help is not obvious, while troubles are likely. At best, it's pointless: suppose they tell Kat's parents - such news would certainly spoil Donlans' mood, but what they can do about this? In the best of best cases, it would fall to the Court's specialist in dealing with etheric stuff, that is... wait for it... Mediums. ;D Second, George knew about Jeanne before all this! Is there a reason to assume this? The question about how juniors happened to know personal details about a ghost... ...who evidently tries to murder everyone in reach? and about whom she didn't hear a single word, even from her father and Jones? In this context the question is more than relevant even without any extra meaning. ...Also it would have taken up too much room to say "Thirty chapters of exposition, minus chapter twenty-two, and also minus little bits of flashbacks that happen ever so often, later...." ...plus the Cursed Teapot incident and something else.
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Post by secondofnone on Oct 10, 2010 15:36:03 GMT
Is there a reason to assume this? The question about how juniors happened to know personal details about a ghost... ...who evidently tries to murder everyone in reach? and about whom she didn't hear a single word, even from her father and Jones? In this context the question is more than relevant even without any extra meaning. For me it comes down to George's use of the word 'how' instead of 'what' in the first panel. "What do you know about her?" could be read as "What else do you know about her besides her name?" On the other hand, "How do you know about her?" could be read as "How do you know about her?" which implies prior knowledge on George's part. That's how I read her words. Of course, her line could have several other meanings or interpretations, depending on which word you choose to stress. On a related note, Annie's statement in the fourth panel not withstanding, I find it hard to believe the Court actually tried to suppress all records of her, despite what Sir Young said. The sudden disappearance of a well known person is bound to raise questions, especially if the authorities respond by pretending there never was such a person. Far easier to keep what actually happened to Jeanne a secret, and offer up a perfectly reasonable explanation for why she's gone. For example, "Jeanne was lowered to the shore of the Annan Waters on a routine mission. While there, for reasons not yet known, she tried to swim to the opposite bank. The current overwhelmed her, and her body was swept away. A memorial service will be held tomorrow to honor her memory and her service to the Court." Time alone would do the rest. I wouldn't be suprised if there are stories and legends about all the founders of the Court, including Jeanne, even if the stories about her are officially regarded as myths.
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Post by kalechibki on Oct 10, 2010 15:51:27 GMT
I don't think in this case that this is Annie disregarding the adults. Annie already asked Jones once who Jeanne was, and Jones said she was ignorant of her. Then, afterwards, Jones herself said that Annie shouldn't approach her until she had something conclusive. So, I think in this case it's a combination of things - not just what the courts response would be overall, but also because Jones (one of the few people she trusts in these kind of matters) has told her to not come back without a full story. And while we have more of Jeanne's story - Annie is still missing parts because Jeanne is not a natural phenomenon. Her relationship with psychopomps has shown her that. What was the arrow that Steadman shot? How does it work? We think that she protects the court from the creatures of Gillete woods, and yet the only time we have seen her in action, she has been working against the court. Does her mere presence stop those of the wood crossing, or is there something else at work? And why would the court do this given that Coyote himself created the divide to keep the two sides separate - is Jeanne their insurance policy? Annie knows she needs to know the why - the what is intriguing and enough to create tons of hate and animosity. But without the why, it is ultimately useless because it could mean a thousand and one different things. Until Annie knows what Jeanne is and how to undo what was done, can Annie really help as Muut would have her do? As she probably really wants to right now? I know as a teacher myself until I understand why someone has done something, I hate taking action, because history has proved that taking action with understanding is more likely to create more problems than solutions. So, we skywatchers wait.
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Post by christopher on Oct 10, 2010 16:36:56 GMT
I think you might have an overly-positive estimation of the mindset of the average teenage boy. I dunno, I think you folks have an overly negative estimation of the mindset of the average teenage boy, and I do volunteer work with teenagers every week. After listening (often because they're so loud) to them on the various bus rides I have to take in my town, I can tell you, they don't. You DO have an overly positive view of teenagers.
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Post by Casey on Oct 10, 2010 17:29:20 GMT
Bus ride vs actually talking and working with kids... well you take whichever one you think is more indicative and I will too.
Edit: if you've ever heard a teenage boy say on the bus to his friends how he was dejected because a girl stopped holding his hand, I'll give you a dollar.
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Post by jayne on Oct 10, 2010 18:14:41 GMT
Bus ride vs actually talking and working with kids... well you take whichever one you think is more indicative and I will too. Edit: if you've ever heard a teenage boy say on the bus to his friends how he was dejected because a girl stopped holding his hand, I'll give you a dollar. I'm not sure anyone meant he was dejected, or rejected... just that he wished she hadn't let go of his hand... he liked it! That being said, I'm still in the camp that thinks his expression means he's about to object strongly to what Jeanne said, not that he's missing the warmth of her hand already.
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