blue
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by blue on Jun 9, 2010 15:17:00 GMT
Annie is Jack Zimmy is Jack Gamma is Jack Jack is Elgamore, who is just very badly drawn.
What I want to know is how Jack got so powerful that not only did he make himself tired, but Kat as well during the interlude.
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Post by the bandit on Jun 9, 2010 15:17:40 GMT
All a part of the plan. Just because Jack said "you" doesn't mean Zimmy can plop people, he could be talking generally (can't recall what's it called in English right now, but it's like he said "will they disappear if one touches them?") Thank you. I very much read that statement as a general "you." The real question (which will likely be answered on Friday) is what does she make of what we see as Zimmy? Thank you. - - - That was cute, Jon.
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mail
New Member
Posts: 9
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Post by mail on Jun 9, 2010 15:32:11 GMT
buzz
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Post by cheddarius on Jun 9, 2010 15:45:26 GMT
Thank you. I very much read that statement as a general "you." Me too. But, I thought that only Gamma and Annie could pop people? Because they've got etheric sensibilities or something? So it wouldn't make sense that it would be a general "you".
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Post by lurker on Jun 9, 2010 16:12:00 GMT
I stand by my theory that Annie is Annie, Gamma is Gamma, and Zimmy is Zimmy. Yes I know there are unexplained things we've seen so far, but remember that this is Zimmingham, and Zimmingham is a distorted form of ZImmy's etheric projection. It's a given that things are a bit warped here.
The underlying consistent thread here is that Gamma is badly confused, first mistaking Annie for Zimmy, and now saying that Jack is not real even though he seems to be quite real here. But then again, he looks like the normal, pre-infestation Jack, so maybe he is just a memory. The question then is, where's the real Jack?
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Post by lucifiel on Jun 9, 2010 16:12:21 GMT
I'm confused. In panels 2 to 3, we see Zimmy. But then she disappears in Panels 5 to 8? It's like she isn't even there in the first place. And maybe that's why Gamma can't "see" her or doesn't "respond" towards her?
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jun 9, 2010 16:36:19 GMT
...by that argument Annie has also disappeared. Seriously, someone being off-panel doesn't mean that they "disappeared". Given Zimmy's reaction "don't come any closer!" I assume she's just keeping her distance from Gamma and Annie.
Whether Gamma can or can't see her is of course a different question.
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lovecraft1024
Full Member
What does anything mean? Basically
Posts: 118
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Post by lovecraft1024 on Jun 9, 2010 16:38:23 GMT
Very confusing comic, again.
Panel 2: looks like long shot of Zimmy and Jack, with "iron leaning"
Panel 3: close up of the same two; looks like Zimmy got up but Jack is still sitting. Zimmy with her usual friendly demeanor (not).
Panel 4: Annie and Gamma; Annie apparently talking to Zimmy, worried about Jack's effect on her; Gamma looks on disapprovingly.
Panel 5: Jack talking to Zimmy(?) about "those guys", presumably Annie and Gamma? Why "whoa"? Does he not recognize them?
Panel 6: Gamma and Jack, Gamma ostensibly asking Annie if this was who she was talking about
Panel 7: Gamma attempting to "gop" Jack
Panel 8: Gamma concludes he's not real, looking back to Annie(?); Jack objects.
Yep, gotta wait until Friday. Clearly calculated, using careful camera cropping, to confuse us...
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Post by fuckingretard on Jun 9, 2010 17:04:23 GMT
The only body-swap/not-the-real-person thing I can take seriously is the newly appeared Zimmy...she looks like she's sitting leisurely and having a chat with Jack before they arrive...not something consistent at all with the actual Zimmy's character.
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Post by legion on Jun 9, 2010 17:07:38 GMT
I dub this chapter: "The Spring-Heelian Explosion of Epileptic Trees".
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Post by Ulysses on Jun 9, 2010 17:53:55 GMT
So far as I can tell:
"Annie" is Zimmy, shown by hearing telepathy, Gamma understanding her English, almost referring to herself as "me", in context meaning Zimmy, and her eye muck starting to come back.
Gamma is Gamma. I've seen nothing to contradict that.
"Zimmy" is Annie, shown by her exclamation "No! Don't come any closer!". Zimmy doesn't talk like that, and we know Annie wants to keep Jack and Zimmy apart, afraid of what Jack will do.
"Jack" is what Gamma said he was, a memory. He's not a Nobody, if he was a Nobody then he would have been Gopped. I suppose memories, having a basis in reality, work differently to Nobodies, but that's just speculation, I can't square that with the KatNobody. He is Zimmy's memory of Jack before he became affected by Zimmingham, that's why he looks so neat again.
Offscreen "Zimmy" has been explaining to "Jack" about the Nobodies and how she (Annie) can gop them. Real Zimmy definitely cannot gop Nobodies, so it must be either Gamma or Annie, and given that Gamma is acting entirely like Gamma and no-one else is acting like themselves I'd say that "Zimmy" is definitely Annie.
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Post by therocksayz on Jun 9, 2010 18:12:40 GMT
I think that the Jack in this page has been stuck in Zimmingham all along. I wonder why Zimmy's asking Gamma and Annie not to come any closer? When I first read it I thought she was protecting Jack from being GOP'd but afte reading all these posts I'm not sure. I kinda get the feeling it's more like a threat, "Don't come any closer (Or I'll GLOP him)" We all know Tom is pretty linear when it comes to story telling by the protagonist POV, evidenced by every other chapters he made. By that logic I believe the "Annie" we see is Annie. She may just be so etherically "under the influence" she's starting to doubt herself, even literally. * The Gamma we see is still suspicious to me so I'll leave it as a wild card. * We've been confirmed by the current page that the "Jack" we see isn't Jack, but some memory. * The "Zimmy" we see obviously isn't Zimmy. (If it was, like other readers pointed out, Gamma would have said something at least along the lines of; "OMGWTFBBQ there's two of you ZIMMY!!") So then... *Weather this is "BirmingJack" or a "Simulation" or maybe even "ZimCity" (which I highly doubt) this "Zimmy" is the one most likely controlling the situation. Therefore that "Zimmy" is NOT the real Annie. Otherwise the POV of this current arc would be VERY different. (And besides, the speech bubble is the wrong color) It's also NOT the real Gamma either. Since Gamma speaks no English and doesn't behave that way. I'm still not sure if it is or isn't Jack, but I'm leaning towards not, because it wouldn't make much sense for Jack to be using a memory of himself to lure anyone anywhere. (For some creepy reason I envision this "Zimmy" as a physical manifestation of the spider in this "reality " which is why this "thing" clings so much to "what's left of?" Jack.) *If only Annie was coherent enough to just look at all of them with the blinker stone to end the speculation .... sigh, then again she might end up seeing whatever Jack was referring to here and that might be a bit much for her in this state.*
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Post by israfel on Jun 9, 2010 18:21:36 GMT
Very confusing comic, again. Panel 2: looks like long shot of Zimmy and Jack, with "iron leaning" Panel 3: close up of the same two; looks like Zimmy got up but Jack is still sitting. Zimmy with her usual friendly demeanor (not). Panel 4: Annie and Gamma; Annie apparently talking to Zimmy, worried about Jack's effect on her; Gamma looks on confused. Panel 5: Jack talking to Zimmy(?) about "those guys", presumably Annie and Gamma? Why "whoa"? Does he not recognize them? Panel 6: Gamma and Jack, Gamma ostensibly asking Annie if this was who she was talking about Panel 7: Gamma attempting to "gop" Jack Panel 8: Gamma concludes he's not real, looking back to Annie(?); Jack objects. Yep, gotta wait until Friday. Clearly calculated, using careful camera cropping, to confuse us... Fixed for you (at least how I see it). Jack is, according to Gamma, a memory so it makes (a little) sense he doesn't recognize them
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Post by King Mir on Jun 9, 2010 18:35:59 GMT
Offscreen "Zimmy" has been explaining to "Jack" about the Nobodies and how she (Annie) can gop them. Real Zimmy definitely cannot gop Nobodies, so it must be either Gamma or Annie, and given that Gamma is acting entirely like Gamma and no-one else is acting like themselves I'd say that "Zimmy" is definitely Annie. I think Zimmy could have gloped fake Kat. She just can't glop her own delusions, much like how Annie could not glop Kat. So its possible that Jack can glop them. In short I agree with the people saying that jack is using you here to mean "one".
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Post by Per on Jun 9, 2010 18:41:38 GMT
* Tom found out the horrible truth about what's in the real Iron Man, gnawed his hands down to stumps, and made a comic. * Insufficient!
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Post by aaroncampbell on Jun 9, 2010 19:42:34 GMT
Yep. Theory: The "Jack" in the real world, who appeared at the end of "Power Station", was a Nobody (or something else from Zim City) all along. Perhaps the spider is not a parasite on him (it?), but rather himself (itself?) - his (its?) true form. He was confused at first to find himself in another world but quickly figured everything out and proceeded to wreak havoc with his super-etheric abilities, trying to... get back home? Which would explain why he wanted to find Zimmy so bad. Thanks, judge deadd. My thoughts exactly, but I wasn't able to articulate them nearly so well so early in the morning. One thing I'm curious about, that I hope we get answers to: if this theory is correct, how did Jack manage to do so well in Zimmingham, when it seems to be such a crazy place? Or it is really only a crazy place in the vicinity of Zimmy? When she left, was he just hanging around in a ghost town, looking for something to do? Since it's all in Zimmy's head, did he just lose consciousness/go into some sort of mental stasis until she returned to Zimmingham? Excepting for his concern about the immediate goings-on, he seems to be in good shape mentally. Perhaps I'm just accustomed to seeing his wrecked and abused spider-body, though. Now that I think of it, the spider seems to have had access to Jack's technical abilities. How does that work, if his mind is trapped in Zimmingham? Sigh, more questions than answers. I love this comic!
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Post by Casey on Jun 9, 2010 20:51:28 GMT
I had postulated in an earlier thread that what we were seeing was Annie traversing one of Zimmy's memories of Zimmingham. Now I believe that we are actually seeing Annie traversing -Jack's- memory of Zimmingham. At the time the memory was created, Jack looked the way he does in today's page. Pretty strong evidence that this is a memory. The other strong evidence is... Gamma said so.
Whether or not that is the real Gamma, or the real Zimmy, I don't know. I suspect, from the way "Zimmy" was sitting next to Jack, that Zimmy is actually the embodiment (in this memory-dream) of Jack's spider. I also suspect that the Zimmy that Annie saw at the beginning was the spider too.
What I'm not sure about is whether or not the "Gamma" we are seeing is a projection of that spider as well, sent as a way to confuse, disorient, and outright psychic-ly overwhelm Annie. It seems to me that the real, flesh-and-blood Zimmy and Gamma, may not be involved in this at all, but instead, we're seeing the imprint/projection/embodiment of the spider, as interpreted through the memory, and the spider is not in a good mood (seeing as it probably knows Annie is trying to eject it from its tasty host, Jack.)
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Post by Rgemini on Jun 9, 2010 21:52:31 GMT
Round like a circle in a spiral like a wheel within a wheel Never ending on beginning on an ever-spinning reel ... Like a tunnel that you follow to a tunnel of its own Down a hollow to a cavern where the sun has never shone Like a door that keeps revolving in a half-forgotten dream Like the ripples from a pebble someone tosses in a stream ... Half-remembered names and faces But to whom do they belong? When you knew that it was over Were you suddenly aware That the autumn leaves were turning To the colour of her hair? Like a circle in a spiral Like a wheel within a wheel Never ending or beginning On an ever-spinning reel As the images unwind Like the circles that you find In the windmills of your mind
Lyrics by Noel Harrison
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Post by todd on Jun 9, 2010 22:24:22 GMT
Well, the closest parallel we have to the possible switcheroo/twist here would be the fake Kat in Power Station. The point of that was demonstrating how disturbing Zimmingham is, which could also be the case here. The difference is that Kat wasn't a point-of-view character in the chapter. The part of the story set in the nightmare city (I still won't use the term "Zimmingham", because I think it trivializes the place's nature) was seen consistently from Annie's perspective. Point-of-view confusion wasn't an issue here. If the "Annie" of the most recent pages is really Zimmy, and the "Zimmy" of the current page is really Annie, that raises the question of why Tom's telling the story from Zimmy's perspective (especially since she's been off-stage throughout the two-parter until Jones sent Annie in) rather than from Annie's. It has to be something more than a cheap trick.
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Post by warrl on Jun 9, 2010 22:33:21 GMT
Also, the giant sarcophagus-type statue isn't... Zimmy, bound by the Spider, is it? Nah, it's a real statue in Birmingham. Specifically it's the iron leaning, which is in fact near the floozy. Both are located in Victoria Square, in front of the Birmingham Council House.
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Post by nikita on Jun 9, 2010 22:47:48 GMT
I think the best evidence for the whole body-switching thing is page 729. Zimmy runs around the corner, Annie looks around the corner but all she sees is Gamma, not Zimmy. It doesn't seem plausible to me that the real Gamma would have let Zimmy run past her. PS: The whole thing also reminds me of this story: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=345
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Post by warrl on Jun 9, 2010 22:56:18 GMT
Looking at comic 459 almost makes me wonder if the Zimmy in the last panel of 459 isn't Zimmy but the then current Jack because the Zimmy in the previous panel was kneeling and how she is holding her hands in that last panel makes it look like she is holding an umbrella - which Jack was doing in 459. Also, I would have expected more reaction from Jack than "Crap" if he hadn't ever been there before and suddenly found himself looking like a girl. That said, I don't think the difference between kneeling and standing can mean much because Zimmy's clothes also changed, etc. I disagree with this idea, most immediately because the "Crap" and slouch fit "Oh no not this again" much better than "WTF???" Interesting idea though. Definitely, by the time they found Gamma it was the real Zimmy. Jack didn't know that much about Gamma at that time. But, I thought that only Gamma and Annie could pop people? Because they've got etheric sensibilities or something? So it wouldn't make sense that it would be a general "you". We know nothing about who can and can't pop the nobodies, other than that Gamma and Annie can pop the ones that are "native" (which I think means manifestations of Zimmy's mind) and Gamma can pop the ones that are manifestations of Annie's mind. It's entirely possible that Annie could pop her own manifestations - IF she recognized them as not-real. And the same for Zimmy. It's also entirely possible that any real person (or perhaps not just any real person, but quite a lot of real people) there can pop anyone's manifestation except their own. Or that popping the nobodies is an unusual ability. In the current situation I think Zimmy knows that Jack is not real but also not an ordinary "native" nobody, and for some reason doesn't want anyone popping him - at least, not quite yet. I wonder if the real Jack is also around there somewhere.
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Pig_catapult
Full Member
Keeper of the Devilkitty
Posts: 171
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Post by Pig_catapult on Jun 9, 2010 23:15:17 GMT
Maybe they're all Jack.
[/kidding]
~EDIT~
Darn! Blue beat me to it. XD
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jun 10, 2010 1:32:44 GMT
This chapter will end with the camera panning out to reveal it's all a snowglobe that Reynardine and Tommy Westphall are watching.
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Post by Mishmash on Jun 10, 2010 2:01:37 GMT
Everyone is Spades Slick.
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dork457
Junior Member
Annie don't scared anny thing!
Posts: 67
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Post by dork457 on Jun 10, 2010 2:04:43 GMT
It'd be nice to have Gamma as a friend. Quote this if you're down.
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blue
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by blue on Jun 10, 2010 2:34:47 GMT
I don't speak Polish. This chapter will end with the camera panning out to reveal it's all a snowglobe that Reynardine and Tommy Westphall are watching. This is how the entire comic ends.
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Post by Zayzie on Jun 10, 2010 2:37:08 GMT
It's possible no one can escape because Zimmy doesn't know who she is, if she does think she's Annie, thus appearing as her. It's possible she has to learn who she is again, hence why Gamma is trying to remind her, so they can get out.
I think Zimmy referred to Gamma and Annie being the same, thus meaning they have the same glopping ability. I think that if you have enough experience with these things, or don't let yourself become fooled, then you can see through the nobodies and see what's really going on.
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Post by snarkamedes on Jun 10, 2010 3:13:55 GMT
I don't speak Polish. This chapter will end with the camera panning out to reveal it's all a snowglobe that Reynardine and Tommy Westphall are watching. This is how the entire comic ends. Hmm, shades of 2KAD's last Zenith storyline... Don't know why you're all worked up about the spiders - it's not like they've been declared (or even noticed by anyone else other than Annie) evil as yet. Perhaps they're inter-dimensional happy spiders?... softic.cz/happy_spider.jpgAnd they've come to spread the holy word of photoshop...
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 10, 2010 4:32:13 GMT
Specifically it's the iron leaning, which is in fact near the floozy. Both are located in Victoria Square, in front of the Birmingham Council House. I know nothing of Birmingham other than what I read on the internets but they tell me this square is the geographic and political center of Birmingham. In other words this place is as deep in Birmingham as it is possible to get.
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