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Post by jesses on May 28, 2010 20:25:24 GMT
It's interesting that GKC is so engrossing a world that nearly every single suggestion about Jones is in terms of the Court or Gillitie wood.
There is an <i>entire</i> world out there, Jones' origin could very easily have absolutely <i>nothing</i> to do with either the Court or the World. For all we know Jones is Lilith, doomed to walk the world forever after being cast out of Eden for refusing to bow down to God or Man, who just happened to end up at the Court because it is an interesting place.
I have doubts that Jones is a Robot/Cyborg or some kind of golem, simply because although Rey and Coyote are disdainful of technology, they don't seem to have any trouble understanding it (as in they recognize it and understand it's limitations and abilities, even if they couldn't necessarily work it themselves), and if she was as simple as a golem then Coyote would easily know what she is.
Hell, Jones could be some sort of extra-dimensional being that is simply condensing itself down to our pathetic material plane to be able to interact with us (which would explain why she seems to understand emotions without having any herself).
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Post by Nicolescrib on May 28, 2010 20:37:05 GMT
Maybe she's just magic.
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mariposa
Full Member
Hi, I'm Elise!
Posts: 149
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Post by mariposa on May 28, 2010 20:38:16 GMT
Alien
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Post by Nicolescrib on May 28, 2010 20:41:42 GMT
Jesses, she could also have nothing to do with the court or woods, but so far it wouldn't really make sense with the rest of the story (the only other time anything's had to do with the outside work has been when kat went to Italy. Who knows, though...
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Post by Yin on May 28, 2010 21:22:06 GMT
Jones. Is. Terrifying. And, sadly, since according to Tom he meant for Jones to specifically be "mysterious", I can't see that we'll be getting answers anytime soon. Possibly ever. Which would be torturous. My vote is on the Iron(Wo)Man theory. Not the Tony Stark IM, the Black Sabbath IM. "He was turned to steel/By a great magnetic field." Images of baby Jones falling into some nutty alchemical muckup, maybe. Jones is Obelix's descendant?!
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Post by Casey on May 28, 2010 22:10:00 GMT
I still find myself kind of bristling at the suggestion that Jones is devoid of emotion. There is a huge difference between having no emotion, and having mastered the skill of not showing any emotion, which is what I think is going on. The evidence is that Jones doesn't show emotion. The assumption, and in my opinion a baseless one, is that Jones doesn't -possess- any emotion to show.
That would be the logical equivalent of pointing out that Eglamore has never been shown to sing, and therefore we can assume he is tone deaf. The evidence just does not lead to the conclusion. It might very well turn out that Jones is void of emotion... and that Eglamore is tone deaf. So I'm not saying those people are wrong. I'm just saying they've reached a tenuous conclusion.
Personally, I think it's a lot more impressive to assume that one has emotion and has mastered the difficult skill of controlling their expression, rather than the boring old simply lacking emotion to begin with. The latter is too easy, relatively speaking.
Additionally I think Jones has shown that she understands human emotion on a level of very fine detail, knowing exactly how to communicate with others (Randy, Parley, Andrew) and I think that ability fits a lot better with someone who possesses emotion but who has studied human behavior to the point of understanding it so granularly.
I could be wrong. She could be just an automaton. But how exciting would that really be, compared with a human who earned that cool-factor through hard work?
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Post by Casey on May 28, 2010 22:14:20 GMT
...I have no idea how my post above wound up in this thread instead of the "Jones: The Facts" thread that I thought I was replying to. I must be losing my mind...
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Post by todd on May 28, 2010 22:14:35 GMT
Jesses, she could also have nothing to do with the court or woods, but so far it wouldn't really make sense with the rest of the story (the only other time anything's had to do with the outside work has been when kat went to Italy. Or Zimmy and Gamma's link to Birmingham (which strikes me as far stronger than their link to the Court).
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Post by Nicolescrib on May 28, 2010 22:33:05 GMT
Oh, yeah. Forgot about Birmingham.
Even so, I think jones will have something to do with the court. We will just have to wait and see.
Have we seen what she looks like if Annie looks at her in the ether yet? That could be interesting. Also, on a different note, what do robots look like in the ether?
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Post by Per on May 28, 2010 23:14:58 GMT
Scandinavian troll? Huldra. Oh, so I was spelling it wrong. Thanks! Depends slightly on what you mean. In Sweden, a "huldra" would usually be taken to refer to a malicious female forest creature with a hollow or bark-covered back, and giant strength is not a given feature. In Norway, "huldrefolk" is an umbrella term for supernatural creatures and giant strength is common among some of these (e.g. straightening and re-bending a horseshoe; not sure how that compares to pushing your fingertips through a concrete wall).
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Post by mistysoul on May 29, 2010 0:04:31 GMT
O.M.G!!! I JUST FIGURED OUT EXACTLY WHAT JONES IS!!!!!!! She's a claymore!!!.. www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wuOSWHpIuQOh wait... No that can't be right because she never uses a sword.. Oh well.^^
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Post by tyler on May 29, 2010 0:14:23 GMT
Jones may be some sort of angel, too, given the name Jones and it's origins.
Or one of the children of the angels, the Nephilim?
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blue
Junior Member
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Post by blue on May 29, 2010 0:39:39 GMT
That would be the logical equivalent of pointing out that Eglamore has never been shown to sing, and therefore we can assume he is tone deaf. The evidence just does not lead to the conclusion. It might very well turn out that Jones is void of emotion... and that Eglamore is tone deaf. So I'm not saying those people are wrong. I'm just saying they've reached a tenuous conclusion. Personally, I think it's a lot more impressive to assume that one has emotion and has mastered the difficult skill of controlling their expression, rather than the boring old simply lacking emotion to begin with. The latter is too easy, relatively speaking. I feel the same way about people who think that Coyote is some kind of god and not just a robot. It is a lot more impressive to assume that someone mastered robotics to that extent, rather than the boring simply being created that way. By a non-robotic-engineer. Comedy aside, since people don't sing in public that often, and they do frequently show emotion, it's more like having Elgamore being shown to sing badly, and then assuming he is tone deaf. Of course we wouldn't be able to be sure that he wasn't secretly singing badly on purpose, but it's not such a stretch to assume that he is genuinely bad at it.
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Post by TBeholder on May 29, 2010 2:09:40 GMT
For one, by now she's hot enough to vaporize those bugs. Huh? Saw the show Annie put up just to trick Marcia? And she continues her exercises. What do you think would happen if she focused blinker's fire into single outburst covering only Jack's matchbox-sized bug (or even all of them at once), not limiting interaction and going all out? And wouldn't be total of ensuing damage to the wall roughly equal to what Jones did? Instead she just stood there and panicked. Thus, a jaw-dropping, but necessary lesson. I don't think I really believe it myself, but what if Jack somehow figured out how to disguise himself as jones? Actually, I think that's not really Jones, it's Kat. Let's stick to our classics. She's a time-traveling polymorphed clone of Annie's dad. I think Annie is about to show off one of her unique abilities. (She is the only person in the world who wouldn't be curious enough about Jones's display to ask anything about it immediately) It's one thing to be curious about someone punching holes in concrete walls, and very, very different thing to ask them directly... Though Annie perhaps could.
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Post by jesses on May 29, 2010 2:21:23 GMT
Coyote is a good point, Coyote, if you remember, is not from Gillite, he specifically states he came from elsewhere and just now resides in Gillite (and not necessarily all the time). The Minotaur in Chapter 2 was from elsewhere, hell, Annie even met Mutt in the outside world first, I'd say there is plenty of precedent for characters to have nothing to do with the Court or Gillitie being in the story.
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Post by legion on May 29, 2010 11:45:41 GMT
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Post by tyler on May 29, 2010 15:21:41 GMT
Actually, I think I'll elaborate a bit. First, the meaning of the name Jones: There's the obvious, "Son of John," but the name John means "Favored by God," or "God/Jehovah has favored." Angels would fall into this category, I think. In Genesis, chapter 6, "At that time the Nephilim appeared on earth (as well as later), after the sons of God had intercourse with the daughters of man, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown." And I'm just going to link the wikipedia page for Nephilim, because there's too much to quote. Now Jones isn't a giant, but the interpretations of size are kind of covered by the page, and she's definitely exhibited physical characteristics that would make me think it's not beyond the pale. Now, why am I thinking this? In the Jones thread, I mention Jones:The Court::Coyote:Gillette. We've already seen Brinnie, who adds Odin to the Gods Tom's acknowledged beyond Coyote and Muut. While Coyote was a god that men worshiped, he is an animal god. If a creature derived from Jehova were earthbound, it's possible they'd find themselves on the side of the more man-like creatures, especially given the origin. It's not something I'm totally going to lay my guess on, but when the thought popped into my head, it felt right enough to explore the possibility. If she isn't man-made, which I'm leaning toward more, I would be less surprised if she turned out to be some sort of demi-human hybrid.
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Post by legion on May 29, 2010 15:57:12 GMT
Of course she could be an angel AND a robot, which would then confirm my theory that the Court robots are christians :3
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Post by Casey on May 29, 2010 17:20:21 GMT
Gillette:Razor::Gillitie:Forest.
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Post by tremere on May 29, 2010 17:35:53 GMT
I don't know why, but I feel that Jones could be some sort of animated statue of Jeanne. What do you think about this theory?
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Post by lurker on May 29, 2010 19:44:20 GMT
After reading all these wild theories, many of which have hardly any logical basis (or any basis at all, for that matter), I'm starting to understand why Tom feels like breaking something after reading the forums.
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Post by jesses on May 29, 2010 19:48:03 GMT
After reading all these wild theories, many of which have hardly any logical basis (or any basis at all, for that matter), I'm starting to understand why Tom feels like breaking something after reading the forums. Possible, but again, if she is just an animated statue, why would Coyote not be able say what she is. I'm pretty sure any Jones Origin needs to be before the Court was created and before Coyote arrived, because Coyote is the one who separated the Court and Forest and therefore, if she had been created/born/materialized after his arrival he would be able to say what she was.
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Post by beatfox on May 29, 2010 20:12:11 GMT
I'm pretty sure any Jones Origin needs to be before the Court was created and before Coyote arrived, because Coyote is the one who separated the Court and Forest and therefore, if she had been created/born/materialized after his arrival he would be able to say what she was. Just because Coyote doesn't know what Jones is doesn't necessarily mean her origin predates his arrival; he isn't omniscient by any means. When he saw Annie's etheric scar, he could tell something powerful made it but couldn't identify what. His ability to gain knowledge seems to be limited to what he himself can see, be it in the physical world or in the etherium - and even his etheric vision wasn't enough for him to distinguish Annie from her mother when he first met her! That said, I do certainly believe it's possible for Jones to have originated before Coyote arrived. We at least know that she and Renard have known each other for "a while now". In fact, I think the behaviors of one have even started to rub off on the other.
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Post by Casey on May 29, 2010 20:13:05 GMT
After reading all these wild theories, many of which have hardly any logical basis (or any basis at all, for that matter), I'm starting to understand why Tom feels like breaking something after reading the forums. I think there are a lot of different reasons that Tom feels that way at times. However, specifically dealing with Jones, didn't he say that he wanted her to be a big mystery? I would think he would want us to be speculating on what Jones really is, since that was why he made her so mysterious. I think there are a crap-ton of other things that he didn't expect to be nitpicked and overanalyzed though, and those are more likely candidates for inducing thing-breaking. That's just my little old impression though.
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lovecraft1024
Full Member
What does anything mean? Basically
Posts: 118
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Post by lovecraft1024 on May 29, 2010 21:08:04 GMT
Saw the show Annie put up just to trick Marcia? And she continues her exercises. What do you think would happen if she focused blinker's fire into single outburst covering only Jack's matchbox-sized bug (or even all of them at once), not limiting interaction and going all out? And wouldn't be total of ensuing damage to the wall roughly equal to what Jones did? Instead she just stood there and panicked. Thus, a jaw-dropping, but necessary lesson. Totally agree about Annie and her powers. However, she's still only what... 13 or 14 years old? In "Residential", she showed cleverness in determining the cause of disappearances, then confidence to execute the trick against the adults. But that's because she and the others guessed correctly about the adult's trick on the kids. Here, she has no clue really what's going on, and I'm sure is looking to Jones for the lead. Jones is basically doing what a person with complete confidence in their powers would do (just happens to be Jones' powers ;D). But Jones has had a lot more experience. I'm sure Annie will gain that confidence with experience as well. What she really needs is a good mentor. It doesn't seem like there's anyone we've met yet that can be that for her, not even Jones.
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Post by legion on May 29, 2010 21:54:07 GMT
After reading all these wild theories, many of which have hardly any logical basis (or any basis at all, for that matter), I'm starting to understand why Tom feels like breaking something after reading the forums. Hey! There's plenty basis for the Court robots being Christians (and thus for Jones to be an angel in a cybernetic body, or something)!
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Post by todd on May 29, 2010 23:33:55 GMT
Hey! There's plenty basis for the Court robots being Christians It would fit the robot horse quoting "Paradise Lost" (a Christian epic). Though if the Court robots are Christians, I suspect they'd feel uneasy about the Court's goal being "to become God" - though that's Coyote's description and they probably wouldn't know about it. (We don't know how much they know about the Court's agenda; is the Court's scorn towards robots the kind of scorn that deliberately keeps them in the dark, or the kind that gives away secrets while the robots are within earshot in a "They don't count as people" fashion? Maybe the latter, in light of the robots having access through memory files of the Founders' murder of Jeanne, and especially of Diego's role in it.)
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Post by Nicolescrib on May 30, 2010 5:03:37 GMT
I like the theory that court robots are Christians. Robots believing in god is an interesting concept.
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Post by TBeholder on May 30, 2010 12:11:04 GMT
I don't know why, but I feel that Jones could be some sort of animated statue of Jeanne. What do you think about this theory? Not a great resemblance. After reading all these wild theories, many of which have hardly any logical basis (or any basis at all, for that matter), I'm starting to understand why Tom feels like breaking something after reading the forums. That's why these are called "epileptic trees"... ;D In "Residential", she showed cleverness in determining the cause of disappearances, then confidence to execute the trick against the adults. But that's because she and the others guessed correctly about the adult's trick on the kids. Also, admirably used whatever means she has. For an overcomplicated prank. As to the confidence, Jones told Annie more than once that her investigation is generally her own business. Here, she has no clue really what's going on, and I'm sure is looking to Jones for the lead. Jones is basically doing what a person with complete confidence in their powers would do (just happens to be Jones' powers ;D). Of course, but the problem is not that she let Jones lead "her" case. Before that, Annie was stuck in indecision in a critical situation. She simply can't afford this. Because she learns to deal with variety of entities both more powerful than her and not quite predictable (at best). And she already did it. This time seems to be just an unfortunate lapse. That's why Jones is a good teacher: she can make anyone as perfect as possible. I like the theory that court robots are Christians. Robots believing in god is an interesting concept. Though not new. Unlikely, considering their ways around Jeanne's shrine and all that.
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Post by tyler on May 30, 2010 15:30:49 GMT
Well, it's a shrine to Jeanne, which doesn't exclude them from being Christians, unless you're one of those people who say that Catholics aren't. It's not worshiping her as much as memorializing, I suspect.
They did think of Kat as an angel, and if Kat's kind of like the mutant Forge, as I think I said at one point, it could be she's got some Nephilim in her distant past.
That's all speculation, though. Whatever Tom's doing is pretty awesome.
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