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Post by lurker on May 17, 2010 18:32:49 GMT
Awesome resolution of the potentially story-threatening situation! Jones, being partial neither to the court nor the woods, comes to the perfect rescue... only of course to be followed by some serious reprimand in private later. On the other hand, though, this turn of events only raises even more questions about just what the court is. [EDIT] P.S. I also note that Jones obviously is pursuing her own agenda independently of the court and the wood, and is keeping Annie under her wing perhaps to further her own ends.
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Post by hal9000 on May 17, 2010 19:04:20 GMT
Awesome resolution of the potentially story-threatening situation! Jones, being partial neither to the court nor the woods, comes to the perfect rescue... only of course to be followed by some serious reprimand in private later. On the other hand, though, this turn of events only raises even more questions about just what the court is. I don't think it was story-threatening necessarily, just Antimony-threatening. The comic could easily have continued by focusing on other characters until Annie's good name could be cleared. As was stated in the wild speculation thread though, we can be pretty confident that's not gonna happen now.
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Post by Casey on May 17, 2010 19:09:12 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb and bet against those that are saying that Jones is going to give Annie a serious reprimand in private. I think that Jones knows just what Annie was trying to do with Jack--that is, to help him--and I think she knows that Annie simply got caught up in Jack's trap. What would be the benefit of reprimanding her? What would she be reprimanding her for, trying to help someone with an etheric problem? When that's what she's being trained to do?
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Post by spacemilk on May 17, 2010 19:09:32 GMT
A couple of things: -The symbol on Reynardine's forehead appears pretty consistently when he is in the wolf form, but does not necessarily appear when he is in the toy form. See: this and this for examples from this chapter. So I don't think that Rey is necessarily no longer possessed by Annie. Jack didn't "take possession" of Rey; he imprisoned/trapped him but I don't know if that counts as the same thing. We shall see! -I usually think Annie is very pretty, but in the 2nd panel I think she's uglier than I've ever seen her in this comic. Not sure what happened, but she really doesn't look like herself. -That said, Jones continues to look sexy and svelte in the white powersuit!
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Post by lurker on May 17, 2010 19:11:17 GMT
Awesome resolution of the potentially story-threatening situation! Jones, being partial neither to the court nor the woods, comes to the perfect rescue... only of course to be followed by some serious reprimand in private later. On the other hand, though, this turn of events only raises even more questions about just what the court is. I don't think it was story-threatening necessarily, just Antimony-threatening.[...] I never believed for a minute that Annie would be expelled. The structure and momentum of the story is such that it simply wouldn't make sense. This story is primarily about Gunnerkrigg Court through the eyes of Annie. Not only does the introduction make it clear that this is her narration of the events at the court, but throughout the story, it is abundantly clear that she is the main protagonist. Yes, there have been cases in fiction where the primary protagonist shifts over the course of the story, but the current momentum of GC indicates that it is quite the contrary. The way the various characters counterbalance each other, and the way the plot is structured, I can't see Annie falling out of the limelight anytime soon. Personally, I expect that she will continue being the primary protagonist until the end of the story (if there is to be one; it's hard to tell at this point).
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Post by lurker on May 17, 2010 19:20:05 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb and bet against those that are saying that Jones is going to give Annie a serious reprimand in private. I think that Jones knows just what Annie was trying to do with Jack--that is, to help him--and I think she knows that Annie simply got caught up in Jack's trap. What would be the benefit of reprimanding her? What would she be reprimanding her for, trying to help someone with an etheric problem? When that's what she's being trained to do? The benefit would be to teach her not to do something so blatantly stupid as sneaking out at night (against school regulations), alone, with an unstable (both psychologically and etherically) person and trespass Court institutions that are clearly not meant to be accessed by students -- while trying to "help" said person. Not that Jones necessarily cares about the school regulations, but like Eggy said, she should have been wiser about not getting herself caught. From Jones' POV, Annie's mistake is not that she tried to help Jack -- that is her training as you said -- but that she could have and should have been wiser about the manner in which she tried to do it. Getting herself into a situation that requires Jones to pull her out of hot water is not an effective way to apply her abilities.
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Post by hal9000 on May 17, 2010 19:21:21 GMT
I don't think it was story-threatening necessarily, just Antimony-threatening.[...] I never believed for a minute that Annie would be expelled. The structure and momentum of the story is such that it simply wouldn't make sense. This story is primarily about Gunnerkrigg Court through the eyes of Annie. Not only does the introduction make it clear that this is her narration of the events at the court, but throughout the story, it is abundantly clear that she is the main protagonist. Yes, there have been cases in fiction where the primary protagonist shifts over the course of the story, but the current momentum of GC indicates that it is quite the contrary. The way the various characters counterbalance each other, and the way the plot is structured, I can't see Annie falling out of the limelight anytime soon. Personally, I expect that she will continue being the primary protagonist until the end of the story (if there is to be one; it's hard to tell at this point). Well I never expected her to get expelled/"put on a bus" either, but I did expect lasting repercussions of some kind. The story can continue to have Annie as the main protagonist while having chapters (even multiple consecutive ones) that do not directly star her. Also, putting her into a crisis such as imprisonment/suspension would have been a great opportunity for some development of her character.
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Post by Casey on May 17, 2010 19:35:04 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb and bet against those that are saying that Jones is going to give Annie a serious reprimand in private. I think that Jones knows just what Annie was trying to do with Jack--that is, to help him--and I think she knows that Annie simply got caught up in Jack's trap. What would be the benefit of reprimanding her? What would she be reprimanding her for, trying to help someone with an etheric problem? When that's what she's being trained to do? The benefit would be to teach her not to do something so blatantly stupid as sneaking out at night (against school regulations), alone, with an unstable (both psychologically and etherically) person and trespass Court institutions that are clearly not meant to be accessed by students -- while trying to "help" said person. Not that Jones necessarily cares about the school regulations, but like Eggy said, she should have been wiser about not getting herself caught. From Jones' POV, Annie's mistake is not that she tried to help Jack -- that is her training as you said -- but that she could have and should have been wiser about the manner in which she tried to do it. Getting herself into a situation that requires Jones to pull her out of hot water is not an effective way to apply her abilities. I disagree. And you made the point yourself. Both Eglamore and Jones (but more importantly Jones, since that's who we're talking about) have encouraged Annie to break the Court's rules, in Jones's case even in an effort to help Annie uncover things in the past that the Court clearly doesn't want uncovered. Furthermore, there was no "wiser" way to help Jack. Annie had no opportunity to help Jack except for the fact that Jack handed her a note and told her where to meet him. To have ignored that opportunity, to have stuck to the rules rather than trying to help when the opportunity presented itself, would have been the more wrong thing to do... both in Jones's eyes and in Annie's conscience. There wasn't anything inherently unwise about going with Jack if it was to help him. Jones may even consider her purpose to be to run interference for Annie while she investigates things that Jones cannot herself. Eglamore told her "don't get caught", not "don't do these things"... and Jones outrightly told her to continue investigating Jeanne's death despite the fact that the Court obviously doesn't want that seeing the light of day. To recommend such a course of action would surely mean having to play defensive end once in a while. Not to mention that it isn't even a big effort to just say "She was operating on my orders" and watch as the suits jump right into line. No, whatever Jones is, she isn't one who needs to worry much about keeping the boogeymen away from her hand-picked etheric agent. That's my opinion anyway.
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Post by TBeholder on May 17, 2010 19:35:48 GMT
I'm wondering though if Jones maybe really did plan this. Maybe she was aware of Annies and Jacks earlier connection and was expecting him to contact her. She would of course leave Annie in the dark because knowledge of being the bait could ruin it - also I'd have doubts Annie would've played along. I'd say the same though may be one of the reasons for Annie's expression in the last panel. She knows Jones is awesome and manipulative enough for such a trick. and I think she knows that Annie simply got caught up in Jack's trap. What would be the benefit of reprimanding her? What would she be reprimanding her for, trying to help someone with an etheric problem? When that's what she's being trained to do? She was trained to work with various powerful creatures not exactly dwelling in the borders of the conventional sanity from most humans' point of view. Conversely, the probable reason of Ms. Jones' disapproval is that she had to pull Annie's butt out of the swamp where her apprentice wasn't supposed to be stuck in the first place, let alone panicking and digging herself deeper before her teacher's eyes. As far as good judgement, mediation skills and improvisation are concerned, it's not quite the best day for Annie, and they both know the score.
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Post by Casey on May 17, 2010 19:40:12 GMT
Conversely, the probable reason of Ms. Jones' disapproval is that she had to pull Annie's butt out of the swamp [...] I disagree that Jones was giving her a look of disapproval in the first place. I don't think that's such an obvious conclusion. As I said earlier, I think she was giving her a look of "hey... follow along here, I'm throwing you a line". We'll know soon enough though, as Wednesday or Friday will certainly show it if Jones is actually disapproving of Annie's actions, and then we'll see who inferred correctly.
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Post by legion on May 17, 2010 19:46:18 GMT
Though, "Well done, Antimony" can really be read simultaneously as a misdirection to get Antimony away from any direct blame by the authority and as a disapproval statement in the form of an ironic compliment (which only Annie can comprehend as such). Given that this is Jones, I don't think it's pretty wild to assume her being able to pull that off instantly.
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Post by Casey on May 17, 2010 19:49:46 GMT
Given that it IS Jones, and that Jones has never been seen to use sarcasm or disparage her students before (though I'm posting this on memory and not scan-verifying), I think that it would be the opposite.
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Post by hal9000 on May 17, 2010 19:52:31 GMT
The benefit would be to teach her not to do something so blatantly stupid as sneaking out at night (against school regulations), alone, with an unstable (both psychologically and etherically) person and trespass Court institutions that are clearly not meant to be accessed by students -- while trying to "help" said person. Not that Jones necessarily cares about the school regulations, but like Eggy said, she should have been wiser about not getting herself caught. From Jones' POV, Annie's mistake is not that she tried to help Jack -- that is her training as you said -- but that she could have and should have been wiser about the manner in which she tried to do it. Getting herself into a situation that requires Jones to pull her out of hot water is not an effective way to apply her abilities. I disagree. And you made the point yourself. Both Eglamore and Jones (but more importantly Jones, since that's who we're talking about) have encouraged Annie to break the Court's rules, in Jones's case even in an effort to help Annie uncover things in the past that the Court clearly doesn't want uncovered. Furthermore, there was no "wiser" way to help Jack. Annie had no opportunity to help Jack except for the fact that Jack handed her a note and told her where to meet him. To have ignored that opportunity, to have stuck to the rules rather than trying to help when the opportunity presented itself, would have been the more wrong thing to do... both in Jones's eyes and in Annie's conscience. There wasn't anything inherently unwise about going with Jack if it was to help him. Jones may even consider her purpose to be to run interference for Annie while she investigates things that Jones cannot herself. Eglamore told her "don't get caught", not "don't do these things"... and Jones outrightly told her to continue investigating Jeanne's death despite the fact that the Court obviously doesn't want that seeing the light of day. To recommend such a course of action would surely mean having to play defensive end once in a while. Not to mention that it isn't even a big effort to just say "She was operating on my orders" and watch as the suits jump right into line. No, whatever Jones is, she isn't one who needs to worry much about keeping the boogeymen away from her hand-picked etheric agent. That's my opinion anyway. There absolutely were wiser ways to help Jack. Taking a more proactive role in not letting things get to where they are now, for instance. Annie's had proof positive that Jack was in bad way since AT LEAST residential, or even further back if we assume she wasn't totally dense when Jack confronted her in the hall way back when. She could have done something at any point after that to try and investigate/mitigate his problem, preventing it from getting to the point where he would start doing crazy shit like invading a power plant, turning it on, and framing reynardine for it. It may not have been her 'responsibility' to fix him back then, either, but if she had things would not have turned out this way. Edit: So, at the very least, Jones should probably point these things out to her and have her take this as a learning experience.
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Post by legion on May 17, 2010 19:52:57 GMT
She has never been seen to use sarcasm because there was no need to, here is a rare case where sarcasm would actually be justified by serving a stealth double-purpose.
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Post by Casey on May 17, 2010 20:02:11 GMT
So, at the very least, Jones should probably point these things out to her and have her take this as a learning experience. Well, I guess we'll see if that happens, then.
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lovecraft1024
Full Member
What does anything mean? Basically
Posts: 118
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Post by lovecraft1024 on May 17, 2010 20:39:05 GMT
Annie persists in calling her "Ms. Jones". Would that be why Jones calls her "Antimony", not "Carver"? Part of making her feel small?
Must say I don' understand the custom of calling by the last name. Is that a British thing?
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Post by judgedeadd on May 17, 2010 20:57:56 GMT
And Reynardine's speech bubbles lost all color.
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Post by Mezzaphor on May 17, 2010 22:11:53 GMT
-I usually think Annie is very pretty, but in the 2nd panel I think she's uglier than I've ever seen her in this comic. Not sure what happened, but she really doesn't look like herself. The low angle makes Annie's nose look bigger. I suspect that's the main reason. and Jones outrightly told her to continue investigating Jeanne's death despite the fact that the Court obviously doesn't want that seeing the light of day. I think that's bit unfair to the Court. Considering that Jones herself didn't know of Jeanne, it seems more likely that Sir Young's attempt to purge all record of Jeanne was almost entirely successful. We can't say the current Court leadership is trying to cover up Jeanne because they're in the dark as well.
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Post by todd on May 17, 2010 22:24:01 GMT
With the behavior of the teachers that we've seen (Eglamore, while giving Annie a detention in Chapter Nine, indicating that what she did wrong was not to break the rules, but getting caught breaking them - and now Jones engaging in a cover-up of Annie's rule-breaking), perhaps it's not so surprising that the children at the Court engage in this kind of behavior.
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Post by todd on May 17, 2010 22:25:50 GMT
The story can continue to have Annie as the main protagonist while having chapters (even multiple consecutive ones) that do not directly star her. Also, putting her into a crisis such as imprisonment/suspension would have been a great opportunity for some development of her character. Of course, there'd be the snag that most of the threads so far have involved Annie in such a way that it would be hard to substitute someone else for her. A few could continue without her presence (such as Kat building a new body for Robot, for example), but things like Anthony's disappearance or the invitation to Gillitie Wood, not as much.
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Post by Casey on May 17, 2010 22:26:36 GMT
and Jones outrightly told her to continue investigating Jeanne's death despite the fact that the Court obviously doesn't want that seeing the light of day. I think that's bit unfair to the Court. Considering that Jones herself didn't know of Jeanne, it seems more likely that Sir Young's attempt to purge all record of Jeanne was almost entirely successful. We can't say the current Court leadership is trying to cover up Jeanne because they're in the dark as well. Indeed you have a very good point, I overlooked that.
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Post by todd on May 17, 2010 22:50:02 GMT
The comic could easily have continued by focusing on other characters until Annie's good name could be cleared. Is that the best term for it? Annie really is guilty of a lot of things in that night's escapade (breaking curfew, trespassing, and serving as Jack's accessory); it won't make any difference if the Court knows that Jack is the ringleader. Note that Jones' way of getting Annie out of trouble was to engage in lying.
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Post by TBeholder on May 17, 2010 23:34:56 GMT
I disagree that Jones was giving her a look of disapproval in the first place. I don't think that's such an obvious conclusion. As I said earlier, I think she was giving her a look of "hey... follow along here, I'm throwing you a line". In #2 lady looks at least as sour as if she has full mouth of juice freshly squeezed from less than ripe lemons. Given that it IS Jones, and that Jones has never been seen to use sarcasm or disparage her students before For the latter, she didn't have a reason to. For the former - you're joking, right? How about that little jab at Sir Eglamore? One of the funniest moments in the GC, and mostly because of the perfect deadpan delivery. -I usually think Annie is very pretty, but in the 2nd panel I think she's uglier than I've ever seen her in this comic. Not sure what happened, but she really doesn't look like herself. The low angle makes Annie's nose look bigger. I suspect that's the main reason. IMHO, sort of cute, even despite being drawn too sharp-nosed. I think that's bit unfair to the Court. Considering that Jones herself didn't know of Jeanne, It's not given, but doesn't matter much. She wanted Antimony to peek into Court's basement. Also, she was demonstratively impartial on the "Court vs. Forest" issue.
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Post by Mishmash on May 17, 2010 23:40:16 GMT
lovecraft1024, a while back it was the norm for all school children to be addressed by their last names by teachers. Eventually this became less common until it was just 'posh' schools and some boarding schools (more old-fashioned institutions generally). As far as I know it doesn't really happen anymore, but there might be some schools left that do it I guess.
In the context of the comic, I think it is meant to refelect that despite its focus on science, The Court is an old institution and is in some ways quite old-fashioned.
Okay that was a pretty long answer to a short question! Basically yes it is an old-fashioned British thing.
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lovecraft1024
Full Member
What does anything mean? Basically
Posts: 118
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Post by lovecraft1024 on May 17, 2010 23:41:56 GMT
Well, I suppose the last two strips just amplify this, but you just gotta wonder, WHAT IS JONES??? And actually, what is Gunnerkrigg Court?
I mean, seeing Jones next to the headmaster in Fangs of Summer, you might think she's some special assistant or something. Then with training new mediums, you might think yeah, she's pretty special (swords against cheek and all). But now this? The security establishment bows to her as well! Has she no bounds? Who's really running this whole show? Certainly not the headmaster... How would he be taking responsibility for all that goes on in the "school"? He must not be the true head.
Curiouser and curiouser........
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Post by Casey on May 17, 2010 23:43:11 GMT
How about that little jab at Sir Eglamore? One of the funniest moments in the GC, and mostly because of the perfect deadpan delivery. I agree it's funny. But it's not remotely sarcasm.
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Post by todd on May 18, 2010 0:17:13 GMT
Maybe the Headmaster's a constitutional monarch, with purely ceremonial duties.
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Post by Mezzaphor on May 18, 2010 1:44:52 GMT
I think that's bit unfair to the Court. Considering that Jones herself didn't know of Jeanne, It's not given, but doesn't matter much. She wanted Antimony to peek into Court's basement. Also, she was demonstratively impartial on the "Court vs. Forest" issue. "Was... Was there a woman amongst the humans by the name of Jeanne?" "Not that I am aware of. Why do you ask?"But now that you mention it... As we've just seen on today's page, Jones is perfectly willing to lie to protect someone else, and able to do so with a completely straight face. What other causes would she use lies to advance?
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Post by lurker on May 18, 2010 1:52:00 GMT
Well, I suppose the last two strips just amplify this, but you just gotta wonder, WHAT IS JONES??? Probably a being with access to extreme powers. What, we don't know yet, but definitely no mere mortal. I don't think we will find out anytime soon! Clearly, a major part of the plot revolves around the mystery of just what the Court really is. I don't think Tom will reveal it until much, much later -- why ruin a perfect plot device that provides most of the thrust in the story? I suspect he's a mere figurehead. More powerful parties are at work behind the scenes, pulling the strings unseen, and furthering the true agenda of the Court. I'm starting to believe that the school, the headmaster, the "diplomacy" with Gillitie, etc., are a mere facade. The real purpose of the Court runs far deeper, in the grand scheme of which the Power Station could very well be a mere cog.
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Post by hal9000 on May 18, 2010 2:56:19 GMT
The story can continue to have Annie as the main protagonist while having chapters (even multiple consecutive ones) that do not directly star her. Also, putting her into a crisis such as imprisonment/suspension would have been a great opportunity for some development of her character. Of course, there'd be the snag that most of the threads so far have involved Annie in such a way that it would be hard to substitute someone else for her. A few could continue without her presence (such as Kat building a new body for Robot, for example), but things like Anthony's disappearance or the invitation to Gillitie Wood, not as much. You know, there are tons of other plot threads and mysteries about the court that don't involve Antimony, like for instance the very nature of the Court and what their business is collecting "special" children to attend school there, not to mention all of the redundant industrial infrastructure and super-science experiments. There's the thing with Zimmy and Jack now too. And, as you said, the the robots. Admittedly you have a point about the forest, but they've been getting a lot of time in the comic lately anyway so them not making an appearance for a while is less problematic, and if absolutely necessary I'm sure Tom could have written a convincing scenario resulting in Kat & Co. going to the forest. It's a moot point though, since things aren't going in that direction. Is that the best term for it? Annie really is guilty of a lot of things in that night's escapade (breaking curfew, trespassing, and serving as Jack's accessory); it won't make any difference if the Court knows that Jack is the ringleader. Note that Jones' way of getting Annie out of trouble was to engage in lying. Okay, I'll concede this.
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