cognizanita
New Member
Where do you think you're going? Because I don't think you're going where you think you're going.
Posts: 14
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Post by cognizanita on May 11, 2010 6:12:06 GMT
Okay, preus -- but that's really just a matter of personal reader taste. On my part, for example, it's Jones I really don't care much about. In your case, it's Jack. That's just an issue of preference. I completely agree. I hope I didn't come off as trying to present my opinions as facts or anything. I was just stating how I feel. I was then asked why I felt that way, so I endeavoured to explain it. I'm sorry if I came on too forcefully. I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything. I didn't think you came off too forcefully, but you were convincing. ;] I can see what you mean about Jack invading your comic. Jack is the first character that I have felt is actually bordering on "dark" and maybe too real. When I read Zimmy's sections, despite the darkness in her character and her mean nature, she struck me as harmless. All bark with no bite. (Not to mention humorous from her obsession with snapping at everyone.) Jack I didn't find the same way. He seems much more complex and closer to inflicting some damage, intentional or not. I am a junior reader, so I wasn't here when Zimmy's story was being released. I admit that may be affecting my perception, so take my comparison with a grain of salt. Still..... Now that Annie has grown a bit, I start expecting her to act responsibly which also adds to the change in the comic becoming more.... serious. Gunnerkrigg started out extremely whimsical and has been getting less so. (or is it just me?) This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't want to lose all the whimsy, but I do enjoy the darker turns in the comic as well. Plus I do like Jack. x] What he embodies may not appeal to everyone, however.
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Post by nikita on May 11, 2010 8:55:42 GMT
I think Jack is bringing something new into the story and that's a good thing. Nothing is worse than a series of books or movies that are all alike. For example, I liked Harry Potter - but the story is just the same in all the books so I stopped reading. Also, Jack didn't have a prominent role except for the current chapter(s) so it's not that bad, even if one doesn't like him. (which is understandable, he is no friendly character)
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Post by todd on May 11, 2010 10:32:23 GMT
I think that the first chapter did look more dark than whimsical (though it had some humorous moments, such as the Court's distinctly unsubtle attempt at concealing the spare robot parts); the Court looks creepy and shadow-filled (not just from Shadow2), Shadow2 seems threatening at first before Annie discovers that he's a lost and frightened child, and the one teacher who appears on stage has something about him that makes me think he'd be right at home in one of those unpleasant boarding schools in Victorian literature (such as the one in the early chapters of "Jane Eyre").
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Nat
New Member
Pffff, hell if I know
Posts: 10
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Post by Nat on May 11, 2010 11:09:52 GMT
If I remember correctly, Tom originally set out with a darker theme in mind, but decided to make it somewhat lighter ("accessible to a wider audience", I think) after the first chapter. That would explain it. ^^;
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Post by todd on May 11, 2010 11:55:36 GMT
I wonder if part of Jack's purpose might be to tie the Zimmy thread more closely to the story. Zimmy and Gamma have struck me (ever since Chapter Eleven) as seeming designed to be more the leads in a story about their life in Birmingham than supporting characters in "Gunnerkrigg Court" (particularly after I learned that Tom had begun drawing them even before coming up with Gunnerkrigg and Annie); "Dobranoc, Gamma" had the tone of a back-door pilot to a spin-off, in fact. Could Jack's infection be a way of getting Zimmy and Gamma more involved with the Court's setting?
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Post by La Goon on May 11, 2010 13:01:49 GMT
That seams plausible. I used to think that Jack was a really interesting character, and I wanted to know more about him. After reading Preus' rant I thought a bit more about it, and I realised that it wasn't really Jack himself I found interesting - but his link to Zimmy's curse/etheric virus (or whatever to call it), and when I wanted to know more about his past and life in general it was more for comparison with his "post Sunny Birmingham" state than out of an interest for him as a person.
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Post by atteSmythe on May 11, 2010 13:54:43 GMT
Jack is maybe a bit less interesting right now because it seems like he's barely even Jack right now. His condition is still interesting to me, however, and I expect that he'll be interesting again whether or not he comes out of this in anything resembling his former state.
I think his role is interesting, too. Right now, off the top of my head, the character could be: - sacrifice, to show that Court Business is Serious, and not just in the long forgotten past - villain, long-term antagonist and constant lurking threat - prisoner, sympathetic character whose real personality is trapped elsewhere, suppressed - repentant, if he's somehow 'cured' before he really gets to be the prisoner, realizing all he'd done while not himself
But none of that means anything if we don't have exposure to him in the first place. His story is too complicated to be crammed into a chapter or two. He's a wild card...but so are a lot of characters (Coyote, Ysengrin to an extent, Jones, most authority). What he is also, that the other intriguing characters are not, is menacing.
While Annie has been in dangerous situations before, she's never really been in danger - insecure in her setting. Jack's troubling because he's the danger at home. It does take some of the innocence away from her exploration and experimentation at the Court, but I don't see that as a bad thing. Heck, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe loses its sense of innocence almost immediately, and it's aimed at a much younger audience (and arguably more whimsical of a setting).
I say keep it up, Tom. There's no drama without danger.
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Post by the bandit on May 11, 2010 18:37:57 GMT
The comic has always had its dark facets (Broken Glass and Other Things, anyone?), Tom has had the plot planned since the inception so it has not "turned darker" unless there's a purpose behind it, and frankly one of the reasons I like Jack is the perception of caprice he displays while carefully calculating all along, i.e., the whimsy he brings with him. Seriously, a wooden bridge? A rowboat? Failing [ sic] down the stairs and then hopping out a window? "I'll carry you"? Don't let your gratuitous personal distaste for a character cause you to whip yourself into inaccurate assessments of where the comic is going. You didn't see me complaining regarding Ysengrin a chapter or two ago. Tom via Twitter 2 hrs ago: Heh. The extent to which I commiserate with that statement is the surest sign that it probably includes me.
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Post by todd on May 11, 2010 22:19:15 GMT
While Annie has been in dangerous situations before, she's never really been in danger - insecure in her setting. Jack's troubling because he's the danger at home. It does take some of the innocence away from her exploration and experimentation at the Court, but I don't see that as a bad thing. Heck, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe loses its sense of innocence almost immediately, and it's aimed at a much younger audience (and arguably more whimsical of a setting). I think that some of the innocence left as early as "Reynardine" - the first time that Annie is in serious danger (almost possessed - and by a guy who initially seemed like a wrongfully persecuted monster - the element of deception makes it darker) - and she doesn't even escape it by her own wits and abilities, but by Eglamore rescuing her. Not to mention that Reynardine's attack upon her could be seen as a metaphor for an attempt at child molestation (in the same way that Alistair's transformation into a bird was a metaphor for childhood friends moving away).
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Post by Per on May 12, 2010 0:00:13 GMT
accessible to a spider audience Jaaaaack
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Post by blackboe on May 12, 2010 2:29:19 GMT
Heh. The extent to which I commiserate with that statement is the surest sign that it probably includes me. Argh, haha XD--yes I can completely identify with that. EDIT: Addressed to Tom, if he does ever happen to read this post: I did not think residential was a dud, but, even if it was, the one line 'Walking is nature's quad bikes!' struck me as so hysterically funny that the rest of the chapter would not have had to be any good for me to enjoy it thoroughly.
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cognizanita
New Member
Where do you think you're going? Because I don't think you're going where you think you're going.
Posts: 14
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Post by cognizanita on May 13, 2010 0:18:18 GMT
The comic has always had its dark facets (Broken Glass and Other Things, anyone?), Tom has had the plot planned since the inception so it has not "turned darker" unless there's a purpose behind it, and frankly one of the reasons I like Jack is the perception of caprice he displays while carefully calculating all along, i.e., the whimsy he brings with him. Seriously, a wooden bridge? A rowboat? Failing [ sic] down the stairs and then hopping out a window? "I'll carry you"? Don't let your gratuitous personal distaste for a character cause you to whip yourself into inaccurate assessments of where the comic is going. You didn't see me complaining regarding Ysengrin a chapter or two ago. Not sure if you are addressing me, but I kinda hope you were. x] I wasn't especially indicating that Tom had changed his course, but I do think that I may be seeing the court and Jack revealing itself/himself as a darker place/person than I previously thought. Neither am I saying it will stay that way. It may be only for one or two chapters. I do like the change, I just hope that it doesn't stay this way at the expense of the many other sides of Gunnerkrigg that I adore. Perhaps I want too much. I like Gunnerkrigg's humor. I like Gunnerkrigg's dark side. I like most all of Gunnerkrigg's characters. And I like the way nothing is exactly as it appears, while still avoiding any ridiculously excessive plot twists. You're probably right. I'm complaining that I'm afraid I'll lose any one of those good things when I'm already getting exactly what I want! Hmmm, I'm but a fool, that's clear. x] (Why, the court robots were just a few chapters ago! So why was I suggesting that the comic will lose that flavor? Its just shifted away, and will come back when the time is right. I'm really am an idiot.) Hahaha, I love Jack's craziness, his nonchalance, his unstable grin, his unexplained motives, his conflicting desires, his suspicious knowledge, his questionable plan..... You're right, I was forgetting the whimsy he brings to the comic! His tendency to appear, say something unexpected, and then disappear with a baffling grin. (Not sure how Ysengrin comes into this. I don't think he became any darker. He did gain an entire other side to his character though.) Tom via Twitter 2 hrs ago: Every day my comic forum is harder to read without wanting to put my fist through the screen. I'm sorry to hear he thinks that. Is it because the forum reads too much into every detail? Is always completely off track? Likes all the wrong things? Talks too much? All of the above? I like the discussion. I like hearing different interpretations and being wrong half the time. I think that so much controversy is a good thing. I consider it a tribute to Tom that we can all see different things in his comic and still, at the end of the day, love Gunnerkrigg.
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