CGAdam
Junior Member
Posts: 86
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Post by CGAdam on Apr 2, 2010 15:16:11 GMT
How is it that no one has even mentioned nanites yet? A nanotech tracking system introduced into the food supply seems totally plausible for the court. It even makes sense for them to keep replenishing them regularly if the nanotech isn't sophisticated enough to avoid being flushed out of the digestive system/bloodstream.
Despite the creepy eyes, I actually believe him.
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Post by wynne on Apr 2, 2010 16:08:46 GMT
Who needs nanites? If they're simply tracking students, they could just use that mildly radioactive tracer stuff that scientists use in experiments, you know, the stuff that shows up on an MRI or something.
Though really, I think Jack's being a bit paranoid. You gotta love how Reynardine's getting all parental!
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Post by Refugee on Apr 2, 2010 17:59:32 GMT
I think Jack is a little over the edge here. The problem with food induced nanites is making sure that each student only gets her own tags -- and I assume that the Court wants to know where each individual is, not just what areas have students in them, generally. Then there's the problem of getting the tracking signal outside the body....
I assume, however, that Jack found something in the computer to make him think the students are being tracked, and just made a bad assumption about how it was being done. (Although it could all be paranoia, which I attribute to the Zimmy effect, not Jack's underlying character.) The fact that Annie's suggestion gives him pause is a clue that he doesn't have authoritative knowledge as to how the tracking is being done.
All that aside though:
If "worse than I am now? Ha Ha!" does not wrench your heart, you don't have one. Poor Jack, he is in so deep, so far over his head.
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Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
Posts: 232
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Post by Chrome on Apr 2, 2010 18:16:48 GMT
Even so, it wouldn't be beyond the Court's means to find some way to track the students individually. I rather like Annie's point about the clothes - it would explain why the school even uses uniforms, besides just the formality of a boarding school.
The interesting thing is if they just track them while in uniform, or any school-supplied clothing, or do they also plant trackers in normal clothes?
However, if it's technological you can bet rebel-Kat is going to find some device similar to Donny's robot-shutdown unit to bypass that kind of tracking. I get the feeling that while she's not Jack, she may be able to get into the Court's systems and confirm or deny his suspicions later. She's likely to be rebellious enough right now to come up with some very interesting technologies.
(I find her possible rebel phase a bit more interesting than Jack's right now because Jack is confirmed to be pretty messed up right now. Insanity always produces some weirdness. A normally sane mind under emotional duress on the other hand - far more unpredictable, and potentially capable of genius.)
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Post by evilanagram on Apr 2, 2010 18:53:45 GMT
Jack looks ill, but not starving or skeletal, which suggests that his claim not to have eaten for days might be part of his delusional condition. It takes more than a few days of food deprivation to make you look skeletal. It wouldn't even be visible for some time.
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Alex
Full Member
Posts: 165
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Post by Alex on Apr 2, 2010 19:00:31 GMT
I'm kind of disgusted that the Court hasn't intervened at all in his condition, which must be obvious them by now.
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Post by Casey on Apr 2, 2010 19:47:48 GMT
I'm kind of disgusted that the Court hasn't intervened at all in his condition, which must be obvious them by now. Well they were trying to catch him at the beginning of the chapter, if you'll recall. It's just as likely that it was to help or cure him as that it was to punish him.
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Post by Zayzie on Apr 2, 2010 20:11:48 GMT
Hmm, I think people aren't thinking mad-scientist-ish enough. Nanites is a good suggestion, and it would be simple to tag each nanite if the nanites have a program running on them. They eat it and then identifies the kid based on DNA.
It is also possible they are putting chemicals in the food and chemically tracking the kids, based on which house they belong to. Since Jack mentioned that kids were watched depending on houses.
So it's completely justifiable. Especially if he made a few attempts at avoiding the court, through trial and error, and was finally able to lose them by not eating.
But moreso than crazy Jack seems to be acting crazy in order to make himself feel better and to take his mind off of his current pain in order to keep himself sane.
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Post by Per on Apr 2, 2010 20:58:53 GMT
How is it that no one has even mentioned nanites yet? Because this isn't the Xkcd or Dresden Codak forum, or something.
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Post by Refugee on Apr 2, 2010 21:42:41 GMT
Hmm, I think people aren't thinking mad-scientist-ish enough. Nanites is a good suggestion, and it would be simple to tag each nanite if the nanites have a program running on them. The problem isn't tagging the nanites; the problem is seeing to it that the nanites are only eaten by the student they're tagged for. Not insurmountable, but difficult. And again, there's the problem of transmission through the human body. I'm more inclined to think of something involving ethereal technology, although exactly what and how I'll wait for Tom to reveal.
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Post by Casey on Apr 2, 2010 21:53:11 GMT
Hmm, I think people aren't thinking mad-scientist-ish enough. Nanites is a good suggestion, and it would be simple to tag each nanite if the nanites have a program running on them. The problem isn't tagging the nanites; the problem is seeing to it that the nanites are only eaten by the student they're tagged for. I get the sneaking suspicion that you didn't read his post past the part that you quoted. His very next sentence addresses that.
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Post by Refugee on Apr 2, 2010 22:29:42 GMT
The problem isn't tagging the nanites; the problem is seeing to it that the nanites are only eaten by the student they're tagged for. I get the sneaking suspicion that you didn't read his post past the part that you quoted. His very next sentence addresses that. No, I just disagree with a general tagging program. It's not worth doing if you can't identify individuals. In other words, I agree with Annie: clothes are better, on a number of counts.
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Post by Casey on Apr 2, 2010 22:36:32 GMT
I get the sneaking suspicion that you didn't read his post past the part that you quoted. His very next sentence addresses that. No, I just disagree with a general tagging program. It's not worth doing if you can't identify individuals. In other words, I agree with Annie: clothes are better, on a number of counts. He's suggesting that IT IDENTIFIES THE KID BASED ON DNA. No matter who eats it, it RECOGNIZES THEIR DNA. There, I've highlighted the pertinent part for you.
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Post by Refugee on Apr 2, 2010 22:47:09 GMT
No, I just disagree with a general tagging program. It's not worth doing if you can't identify individuals. In other words, I agree with Annie: clothes are better, on a number of counts. He's suggesting that IT IDENTIFIES THE KID BASED ON DNA. No matter who eats it, it RECOGNIZES THEIR DNA. There, I've highlighted the pertinent part for you. Ah, my apologies. That's still a pretty advanced nanite, requiring as it does a library of the DNA templates of every kid (and likely staff and faculty) in the school, and a means to test. [edit] Although I guess if you have a way to record the genetic profile, you can just broadcast that....[/edit]And again: you still have to get the signal out. I dunno. Putting stuff in the food is an old, old, paranoia, and I think there's easier ways to accomplish the same thing. Basically, if you can do this, you can put DNA sensors in the door frame. Or do face recognition. Or put trackers in the clothing, per Annie. But in any event, I take your point, and appreciate your removing my blinders.
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Post by Casey on Apr 2, 2010 23:27:39 GMT
Oh, I think the entire idea of nanites, or anything else, in the food, is preposterous and I'm fairly certain that Jack is just nutso. But if you WERE going to put nanites in food, you wouldn't need them to be able to understand DNA and have profiles for everyone... you'd just need them to sample DNA and send transmit a code indicating what you found. The central tracking system would match the signal to the student and thereby know where he/she was.
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Post by evilanagram on Apr 2, 2010 23:48:27 GMT
Or just not have them identify which student is blipping on whatever screening device they have. They can just look at the map/grid/whatever and be like, "Hm... a student is out on the lake. Send a team to pick them up."
But my vote's that he's just crazy. At the very least, paranoid without just cause.
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 3, 2010 0:08:56 GMT
I'm kind of disgusted that the Court hasn't intervened at all in his condition, which must be obvious them by now. Well they were trying to catch him at the beginning of the chapter, if you'll recall. It's just as likely that it was to help or cure him as that it was to punish him. I dunno, I'd give at least even odds that they were going to toss him into a room and just observe the terminal phases of his 'disease', since I can't imagine his condition is one they've ever seen before. But my vote's that he's just crazy. At the very least, paranoid without just cause. PTSD isn't really 'crazy' like schizophrenia, so much as it is a stress-induced mental injury. Also, given that he actually has people after him, I don't think that his paranoia is entirely without cause either. Just saying. Edit: fixed quotes
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Post by warrl on Apr 3, 2010 1:59:38 GMT
Hmm, I think people aren't thinking mad-scientist-ish enough. Nanites is a good suggestion, and it would be simple to tag each nanite if the nanites have a program running on them. The problem isn't tagging the nanites; the problem is seeing to it that the nanites are only eaten by the student they're tagged for. Not insurmountable, but difficult. Not difficult at all, in fact a non-issue. The two obvious alternate approaches are: 1) the nanites acquire identity from the person who eats them, or 2) external computers track the collection of nanites in each person, which is expected to change over time. Which is why RFID tags in clothing are more practical. Aside from the chance of kids passing clothes back and forth. Which also isn't that big a concern: even kids don't often pass underwear or non-dress shoes around.
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Post by Refugee on Apr 3, 2010 2:04:51 GMT
And again, there's always the possibility of facial recognition, or some etheric technology working on sympathetic principles, or the like.
We don't know.
My position: Jack saw evidence in the computer system that students' movements are tracked, but the exact mechanism is his fantasy.
I do like the suggestion up-thread that Jack tried things randomly until he saw that he could no longer be tracked -- but I bet starving himself isn't really what did it. Anybody who's done any troubleshooting of complex systems knows how easy it is to form temporary superstitions about the system behavior.
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Post by Casey on Apr 3, 2010 2:13:53 GMT
Just to throw another angle on this question of tracking the students, I'll point something out that you might not have all seen.
Originally I was pretty sure that Tom was just trying to convey something so audacious that we could only conclude that Jack must be completely crazy and/or paranoid. But then on the other hand, when asked in two different questions on Formspring whether Jack was just being paranoid or whether the Court was truly tracking the students, his answer was an enigmatic "Remains to be seen". Hmmmm.... mysterious...
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Post by strangethoughts on Apr 3, 2010 4:49:02 GMT
If the school is tracking students, then I think it actually makes sense that it is general rather than individual. With so many students around it takes a lot more power to keep track of every individual than to just know when a student is somewhere they shouldn't be, or is having say a heart attack (he did say they track vitals after all) the system would only alert in emergencies. Thus it's less of a huge invasion, which Im sure a few court teachers would object to.
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 3, 2010 5:03:53 GMT
If the school is tracking students, then I think it actually makes sense that it is general rather than individual. With so many students around it takes a lot more power to keep track of every individual than to just know when a student is somewhere they shouldn't be, or is having say a heart attack (he did say they track vitals after all) the system would only alert in emergencies. Thus it's less of a huge invasion, which Im sure a few court teachers would object to. It's also possible that the teachers aren't generally aware of the tracking mechanism, if there is one.
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Post by Refugee on Apr 3, 2010 12:05:58 GMT
Huh. Just found this[159]. Kat says, after Annie falls from the bridge and the birds save her, "They must be some kinda monitoring system the school uses." Later[196], Gamma explains why Zimmy throws sticks at the birds: "That bird is the Thousand Eyes. Zimmy cannot stand it looking at her. She can feel its stare."
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Post by Mylian on Apr 3, 2010 13:41:22 GMT
Tracking nanobots in the food... that's just insane enough to be plausible in the Court. It may or may not actually be true, but given other things Jack may have found out in the computer I don't blame him for believing it.
The "problem" of identifying individuals from specific concentrations of nanites isn't even an issue. If they're all networked together, then you simply have any new nanites inherit an identifier from the body's population.
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Post by solarn on Apr 3, 2010 14:12:17 GMT
Huh. Just found this[159]. Kat says, after Annie falls from the bridge and the birds save her, "They must be some kinda monitoring system the school uses." Later[196], Gamma explains why Zimmy throws sticks at the birds: "That bird is the Thousand Eyes. Zimmy cannot stand it looking at her. She can feel its stare." Yes, but both Anja ( Page 279) and the Court robots ( Page 648) have said that the birds are not known to the Court.
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Post by wolkenser on Apr 3, 2010 14:27:16 GMT
Jack is starting to remind me of The Question at this point. I can see him saying things like "Topically-applied fluoride doesn't prevent tooth decay. It does render teeth detectable by satellite." or " There was a magic bullet! It was forged by Illuminati mystics to prevent us from learning the truth!"
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Post by sebastian on Apr 3, 2010 14:50:24 GMT
Oh, I think the entire idea of nanites, or anything else, in the food, is preposterous and I'm fairly certain that Jack is just nutso. Well, it is no more preposterous than, for example, fairies turned into humans or a solid virtual reality device used to simulate pulp sci-fi scenarios. This is the Court. Logic don't need to apply here.
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Post by xanbcoo on Apr 3, 2010 17:51:20 GMT
These past 2 or 3 pages have been my least favorite in a long time.
It just feels like it's been a guest comic drawn by someone who has the same art style as Tom. I can't put my finger on it.
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mariposa
Full Member
Hi, I'm Elise!
Posts: 149
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Post by mariposa on Apr 3, 2010 19:25:05 GMT
Huh. Just found this[159]. Kat says, after Annie falls from the bridge and the birds save her, "They must be some kinda monitoring system the school uses." Later[196], Gamma explains why Zimmy throws sticks at the birds: "That bird is the Thousand Eyes. Zimmy cannot stand it looking at her. She can feel its stare." Yes, but both Anja ( Page 279) and the Court robots ( Page 648) have said that the birds are not known to the Court. Yes, which makes the possibility of them monitoring the students even creepier, in my opinion. Also, I agree with the theory that Jack saw something suggesting the Court was tracking the students on the computer and is incorrect about it being the food. That makes the most sense to me.
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Post by TBeholder on Apr 4, 2010 7:03:08 GMT
Now you're just rowing over the cuckoo's nest, don't you? Whoa, someone's been listening to too much Coast to Coast AM. Poor kid is further gone than he initially seemed; potentially unstable. He is displaying symptoms of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder Oh, dear Cthulhu. American national sport: folk psychiatry. ;D However, if it's technological you can bet rebel-Kat is going to find some device similar to Donny's robot-shutdown unit to bypass that kind of tracking. Disabling the tracking is counter-productive more often than not. It's easier and more fun just to find it and ask a robot to take a bucket of transponders for a long excursion through various non-restricted areas of the Court. "Remains to be seen". Hmmmm.... mysterious... Ah, the same old riddle: did Tom twisted it once, or twisted and then untwisted it back? Yes, but both Anja ( Page 279) and the Court robots ( Page 648) have said that the birds are not known to the Court. This doesn't mean birds can't just volunteer some data in a form Court can use.
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