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Post by the bandit on Dec 21, 2009 14:56:11 GMT
Self-deluded old fool.
The drawing looks like the Seed Bismuth, or at least a server, to me.
This place has colored thy mind, Casey.
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Post by xanbcoo on Dec 21, 2009 15:51:18 GMT
Ohh, a convenient deathbed confession, Diego? You are a smart man. Horrible, but smart.
My impatience is getting the better of me. I knew we probably wouldn't find out what role Jeanne played in all this until much later, but the fact that Diego just bit it makes me frustrated that we didn't learn more.
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Post by fjodor on Dec 21, 2009 16:37:18 GMT
recap
Jeanne is still waiting according to Muut. That can mean she never knew what hit her, or that she perished while waiting. After all the Fairies told Annie that 'passing the test' was the only way out of the ravine. (That didn't stop Ysengrin from descending however. But he's got these incredible stretchy arms...).
The water itself is not deadly, otherwise Annie would never have been able to get out of the river.
Coyote said that the people from the Court 'did something to the water'. The cover of the Coyote story chapter shows the arrow in the water. Also, third treatise shows Ysengrin with the Bismuth symbol. It is reasonable to assume that Jeanne was seen by her lover/suitor, who came down to meet her, and this person would have done something to deserve the title of traitor in the eyes of Diego.
All of this leads to the compelling and inevitable conclusion that...I haven't got a clue. Rats. For a moment I thought I had bright moment but it's gone.
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Post by romangoro on Dec 21, 2009 16:38:20 GMT
All in all this is an incredibly sad story and we still don't know nothing of the external factors that triggered the tragedy's last act, i.e. what was it that the court wanted to do tho the water, and why.
I really don't understand why so many seem to ate Diego now. He had lots of problems and was responsible for Jeanne's death, and he never admited it to himself, but I still can't hate him, only be sad for him.
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Post by judgedeadd on Dec 21, 2009 16:47:54 GMT
I really don't understand why so many seem to ate Diego now. OM NOM NOM NOM
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Dec 21, 2009 17:01:40 GMT
Being a pathetic stalker is... well, I hate to say it's /natural/, but it's understandable. And going after a woman who isn't interested in you using totally the wrong tactics is a normal, human thing to do, and being broken up when you're rejected by someone you love is totally natural too.
Arranging to have her killed because she isn't interested in you, however, is an evil act. One can feel sympathy for his situation, pity for his inability to handle his guilt, and even understanding for the anger that pushed him that far, but the instant he decided that it was okay to hurt her because she rejected him was the point at which he crossed the line.
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Post by sandjosieph on Dec 21, 2009 17:03:56 GMT
I'm really not liking Diego anymore. But that's from knowing only what the camera bot has recorded. If only said camera bot had been a ninja and had snuck around the court gathering more information then we might know more of the story.
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Post by violet on Dec 21, 2009 18:34:39 GMT
It is reasonable to assume that Jeanne was seen by her lover/suitor, who came down to meet her, and this person would have done something to deserve the title of traitor in the eyes of Diego I think it's doubtful that Jeanne and her love have met along the banks of the Waters in the past. When she speaks to Diego, she's terrified of the prospect of going down there (she could purely be afraid of what Someone Bad going to do, but her dialogue particularly emphasizes the Waters.) He had lots of problems and was responsible for Jeanne's death, and he never admited it to himself, but I still can't hate him, only be sad for him. He is a tragic figure, but he took pleasure in cruelty for cruelty's sake, murdered someone, and trapped her spirit in a dark gorge for all time. He kinda brought it on himself. That's pretty difficult to forgive, particularly speaking narratively. Is this really denial and blame-shifting, or was Diego actually pressed into coming up with a scheme by the protector of the Court? Young calls him the “architect of our scheme.” I strongly suspect he came up with it, designed the plan, designed the arrow, and marked Jeanne as the only possible sacrifice. He did a hideous thing, and took the guilt of it to his grave.
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Post by cripplerking on Dec 21, 2009 20:15:44 GMT
Ooh, realization! Earlier, Muut said that all they knew was that Jeanne was "alone... waiting". How do they know this you ask? After all, they had no other information about her. Because Diego said those words on this page as he lay dying and the guide that came to take him heard what he said!
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Post by wynne on Dec 21, 2009 20:41:37 GMT
He knows deep down that he could have refused like the man who stormed out of the meeting Eh, that guy didn't exactly storm out. It's interesting that Tom showed us the evil deed itself, and then went immediately to his guilt-ridden death years later, instead of showing us Diego's reaction right after Jeanne's death. I wonder how long it took him to feel guilty, and how much longer after that it took him to convince himself he was innocent.
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Post by King Mir on Dec 21, 2009 21:15:35 GMT
He denies himself guilt. He blames Young. He feels regret but not guilt.
I wonder what else Young did to make Diego hate him enough to blame him for this. It has to be something. They were amicable earlier, and as much as Diego wants to deny responsibility, it would be strange to blame a friend unfairly. Blaming someone you don't like on the other hand is natural. So the question is, why did Diego come to dislike Young.
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Post by wanderer on Dec 21, 2009 22:09:19 GMT
Sigh. Diego? Guess what. She died, and you did everything.
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Post by rosesablaze on Dec 21, 2009 23:14:44 GMT
I wonder how Tom views Diego. Was he meant to be sympathetic? Creepy? An intentional base-breaker?
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 22, 2009 0:04:48 GMT
I'm wondering what sort of afterlife he went to Considering the setting, more proper question is "which Guide used to pick up crazy human-sacrificing toy makers?". Also, that's probably the most human looking robot hand we've seen. The arm looks a lot like muscles. Whose do you think it belongs to? Any of these? Before the paint fell off. Can't make out what the heck's that thing in the drawing on his table though. Jeanne's "shrine"? The water itself is not deadly, otherwise Annie would never have been able to get out of the river. Coyote said that the people from the Court 'did something to the water'. She's a medium. If the water is supposed to be somehow swapped with Styx or something - Annie can and already did walk to "the other side". Also, she hit it very close to the shore. BTW, it's interesting that she falls through the dark nothing ( before she closes her eyes), even though the canyon isn't that dark. He denies himself guilt. He blames Young. He feels regret but not guilt. If he didn't saw himself that it was his fault, he wouldn't squirm his way out of the blame like that. On the other hand, it's not clear whether he tried to convince himself or only his "children".
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tictoc
New Member
1000 eyes and counting
Posts: 40
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Post by tictoc on Dec 22, 2009 0:16:31 GMT
It's interesting that Tom showed us the evil deed itself, and then went immediately to his guilt-ridden death years later, instead of showing us Diego's reaction right after Jeanne's death. I wonder how long it took him to feel guilty, and how much longer after that it took him to convince himself he was innocent. I thought that was interesting too.. I think there is probably more to this story than meets the eye. But it probably will not be revealed for a while to come.
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Post by Per on Dec 22, 2009 0:20:10 GMT
I wonder how Tom views Diego. As a character, I would think. And that's not a flip answer.
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Post by nikita on Dec 22, 2009 1:48:41 GMT
Young calls him the “architect of our scheme.” I strongly suspect he came up with it, designed the plan, designed the arrow, and marked Jeanne as the only possible sacrifice. He did a hideous thing, and took the guilt of it to his grave. He is a scientist - he didn't do anything besides problem solving and he himself didn't actually kill anybody. The archer shot the arrow. Young ordered him to do so. This is one way to think about it and a very old one. (I'm not saying it is a good way.)
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sz
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by sz on Dec 22, 2009 2:51:49 GMT
The dark and sunken eyes could represent his "soullessness", so to say. He was very ineffective with expressing his emotions, has done rather callous things and, well, always worked better with machines than people. And eyes often get called windows to the soul, and whatnot. Or maybe it's just that his denial and refusal of what he did to Jeanne made his soul rot and turn black. We see what has happened inside him only after he takes off the piece of technology that saw the world through.
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Post by murgatroyd on Dec 22, 2009 3:01:10 GMT
This page is a bit creepy, with his darkened eyes and the robot's "Father?" I just realized that we've never seen him without glasses before. However, we may have seen a hint of the darkened eyes here.
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Post by johnwwells on Dec 22, 2009 5:21:35 GMT
Could've been worse!
He could've made her a ghost with the intent of keeping her around forever and ever.
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Post by blackmantha on Dec 22, 2009 11:41:07 GMT
Hey, hooold on a minute. We've seen that Anja's eyes are so small Tom stylizes them into thickened lines. Could Diego be Anja's ancestor? We've always guessed that if Kat were his descendant, it would be through Donald, but... I did notice his eyes look like Anja's as much as Zimmy's, but it's unlikely. Anja wasn't born in England, so the family would have to have emigrated, and then come back.
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Post by todd on Dec 22, 2009 11:45:01 GMT
Do we know for certain that Anja wasn't born in England? We know that she's a gypsy, but there are Romany in England.
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Post by AluK on Dec 22, 2009 14:50:53 GMT
She had a thick accent - not conclusive, I know, but points to a non-native speaker.
That said, I don't believe Diego and Kat are related at all.
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bp174
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by bp174 on Dec 22, 2009 14:54:43 GMT
What a great chapter! One of the best yet. I love how Tom's art (meaning both his illustration and storytelling) just keeps getting better and better.
One thing on Diego's eyes I haven't seen mentioned: my first thought on seeing them was that he had plucked them out, an act that is usually associated with shame, regret, and an act of atonement/punishment for some great sin. I sort of pictured him in hysterical grief, thinking of Jeanne's beauty, and saying, "I'll never look on anything beautiful again!" before doing the self-mutilating deed. But maybe that's just me. Still, why would he need to wear glasses if he had no eyes?
It also seemed to me that he may have surrounded himself with ever-more "human" and advanced robots after Jeanne's death.
And something definitely tells me that pocket watch is going to be significant down the road. Maybe a clue/key that leads to something?
I love this story! Can't wait to see what happens next.
$0.02,
BP
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Post by romangoro on Dec 22, 2009 14:56:16 GMT
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Post by almoray on Dec 22, 2009 17:14:15 GMT
Perhaps Diego had a "Fantastic Plan" where it would look like all was lost for her, and he made this all happen... But then! Only when everything look bleak he was supposta rush down there and save Jeanne and become a great hero! Therefore, making her love him once and for all! And or at least owing him her life! He was there when it all happened or else how did the cam bot film it? Maybe he just didn't have the stones to follow through with his plan in the end! Even Jeanne was afraid to go down there and I put her about 100X braver than Diego. Out of repentance he built those little birds incase they ever thought to sacrifice anyone else. >>Also... I hope that pocket watch next to the plans comes up soon. I do so love pocket watches. Only in his world, it would be an awesome little robot that yells the time, and date at you!
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zombie
New Member
Hmm
Posts: 42
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Post by zombie on Dec 22, 2009 17:24:13 GMT
He denies himself guilt. He blames Young. He feels regret but not guilt. I wonder what else Young did to make Diego hate him enough to blame him for this. It has to be something. They were amicable earlier, and as much as Diego wants to deny responsibility, it would be strange to blame a friend unfairly. Blaming someone you don't like on the other hand is natural. So the question is, why did Diego come to dislike Young. I would say his hatred of Young started with the order to conceal the deed. He probably expected to be hailed as the saviour of the Court. It wouldn't surprise me if Young and the others who knew shunned him, and Jeanne was probably his only other human contact, whose death he organised. Young probably had requested him to find a way to secure the Court, but it appears that Diego presented this plan as the only possibility. Maybe it was, we don't know,but that wouldn't reduce the culpability of all involved, including the man who left, the only involved who really "did nothing".
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Post by romangoro on Dec 22, 2009 18:23:48 GMT
Out of repentance he built those little birds incase they ever thought to sacrifice anyone else. One of the robot king's servants stated that the tic tocs where not created by Diego in page 648. A good question would be why the tic-tocs didn't save Jeanne back then.
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Post by martinjh99 on Dec 22, 2009 18:49:53 GMT
Maybe the tic-tocs weren't made when all this happened.
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Post by Per on Dec 22, 2009 20:06:03 GMT
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