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Post by todd on Jun 8, 2009 23:37:55 GMT
He was possibly willing (we don't know if he knew the side effects at the point he possessed that guy) to kill and reluctant to accept more power from Coyote after all. He probably did know about the side effects, in light of the scene where he was looking down at the rabbit whom he had possessed and thereby killed. We don't know for certain that it took place before he possessed the young man, of course - I'm assuming that it did, however, because Coyote's story indicates that Reynardine possessing the young man led to his imprisonment in the Court for murder. Brynhildr's taking on her "Brinnie" form at the Court wasn't voluntary, however; it was a punishment imposed on her by Odin for disobeying him. She might not have been able to become a student at Gunnerkrigg on her own.
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Post by Casey on Jun 8, 2009 23:47:02 GMT
You know, it would be a cool job to be the guy at GC who has to field those calls: "Hello? Oh Mr. Odin, God of the Norse? Why yes, we could make an arrangement to have your daughter enrolled here. Oh no no no, no tuition fees for you sir... but we do have this power station idea..."
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mjh
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Post by mjh on Jun 8, 2009 23:55:23 GMT
I'm pretty sure Jones "took the test" from the Forest, though. If she so desperately wanted to leave the Wood for the Court, then why would she make it appear like she is above those conflicts between Gillitie and the Court? She never belonged to either side.
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Post by todd on Jun 8, 2009 23:59:28 GMT
You know, it would be a cool job to be the guy at GC who has to field those calls: "Hello? Oh Mr. Odin, God of the Norse? Why yes, we could make an arrangement to have your daughter enrolled here. Oh no no no, no tuition fees for you sir... but we do have this power station idea..." Which then raises the question of how they got phone service in Asgard - unless the Norse gods have decided to update their technology since the Viking Age.
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Post by tyler on Jun 9, 2009 0:08:18 GMT
Which then raises the question of how they got phone service in Asgard - unless the Norse gods have decided to update their technology since the Viking Age. What does god need with a starship?
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Post by Per on Jun 9, 2009 0:22:12 GMT
It's psychelogickal! Annie feels she has to measure up to Jones, who is simultaneously rival and model, and that her relationship with Reynardine is one of her trump cards in that regard; thus she is dismayed that the two of them may not only have a history but likely share a level of esoteric knowledge she may have to wait a long time to attain. Not only is she jealous that Reynardine would socialize behind her back, but it's all the worse because Jones is involved; Annie's reminded that Reynardine is for all his oftentimes childish behaviour effectively a grown-up and she's not, and she responds to this in the way of a child: with a sense that she is being wronged and betrayed and...
... it's what Todd said.
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Post by tyler on Jun 9, 2009 0:45:17 GMT
I think she's sick, in part, of all of these people acting like separate entities whenever she's around, and coming together to conspire when she's got her back turned.
Jones and Reynardine and Coyote and many others seem to place some significance on Annie's lineage and abilities, yet they don't seem to want to explain things that clearly concern her and hand-wave their reasons when she questions them.
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Post by wanderer on Jun 9, 2009 2:39:04 GMT
The chapter's looking more promising now. (I'll confess that I've got this much in common with Annie; I'm more interested in whatever Jones and Reynardine were discussing - and the intrigues and mysteries at Gunnerkrigg related to them and the others around them - than in another spacemonauts adventure.) If Annie wants to know this stuff so much, why the bloody hell doesn't she ASK? Preferably someone OTHER than Coyote, because we've already seen that he's probably the least likely to give her straight answers, simply because it amuses him to be vague. Ask Jones, ask Anja, ask the headmaster, ask Eglamore, FREAKING ASK SOMEONE. Really, these people have shown themselves quite willing to discuss topics of all sorts with her, if she'll just ask about them. But no, she peeks around corners, eavesdrops on conversations, picks locks, sneaks out of dorms, falls off bridges, etc. trying to find out on her own. It's maddening.
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Post by Babble-jargon Bill on Jun 9, 2009 2:52:36 GMT
You know, it would be a cool job to be the guy at GC who has to field those calls: "Hello? Oh Mr. Odin, God of the Norse? Why yes, we could make an arrangement to have your daughter enrolled here. Oh no no no, no tuition fees for you sir... but we do have this power station idea..." It would be like being the guy who answers the phone when someone wants to call a country. You've all seen on t.v when the person dials and says "Hello, Finland? Yes, how's it going over there?" You could be the person who replies when someone wants to call Gunnerkrigg Court. Then again, there is also the very realistic possibility that the Court just puts people in recorded message hell like so many other entities. "If you would like to inquire about our etheric transformation program, press 1. If you would like to enroll your student at our school, press 2. If you would like to know more about Gunnerkrigg Court, I'm sorry, that service is no longer available."
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Post by Babble-jargon Bill on Jun 9, 2009 3:03:15 GMT
The chapter's looking more promising now. (I'll confess that I've got this much in common with Annie; I'm more interested in whatever Jones and Reynardine were discussing - and the intrigues and mysteries at Gunnerkrigg related to them and the others around them - than in another spacemonauts adventure.) If Annie wants to know this stuff so much, why the bloody hell doesn't she ASK? Preferably someone OTHER than Coyote, because we've already seen that he's probably the least likely to give her straight answers, simply because it amuses him to be vague. Ask Jones, ask Anja, ask the headmaster, ask Eglamore, FREAKING ASK SOMEONE. Really, these people have shown themselves quite willing to discuss topics of all sorts with her, if she'll just ask about them. But no, she peeks around corners, eavesdrops on conversations, picks locks, sneaks out of dorms, falls off bridges, etc. trying to find out on her own. It's maddening. The reason Annie doesn't just outright ask people is because she doesn't trust authority figures and has had to rely on herself to solve her problems in the past, so she figures that adults (or otherwise) aren't going to be that much of a help anyway. I bet she also suspects that she wouldn't get an honest reply if she were to just outright ask. I have a feeling that in the near future Annie and Kat are going to learn about another group of like-minded kids trying to discover what the hell is going on at the Court. They can't be the only ones.
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Post by King Mir on Jun 9, 2009 4:29:24 GMT
We don't have any evidence for or against Jones being a forest convert that I'm aware of... but it does make for an interesting theory. Right now I'm trying to remember if there wasn't something about fairy converts retaining their regional dots... I'm probably just remembering that their regional dots are repeated on their clothing if their clothing covers their shoulders... but that's while they're still fairies. Even so, we do know that Jones doesn't have any dots on her shoulders. That still though isn't really evidence for or against her being a forest convert... Faries retain slightly pointed ears. So Jones isn't an ex-fairy. Doesn't rule out the possibility that she was something else though. Incidentally, I'm a bit surprised that Annie would take Reynardine along with her on this outing, even if he didn't actually accompany her into the simulation chamber. After certain incidents in their past history, I think she wouldn't want him around while she's in that spacemonaut uniform - though maybe she figured that Reynardine's learned enough from past disciplinary measures not to make any inappropriate remarks. I suspect Reynardine has stopped with lewd comments toward Annie when he they both started "tip-toeing around each other", after the visit to Coyote. It's psychelogickal! Annie feels she has to measure up to Jones, who is simultaneously rival and model, and that her relationship with Reynardine is one of her trump cards in that regard; thus she is dismayed that the two of them may not only have a history but likely share a level of esoteric knowledge she may have to wait a long time to attain. Not only is she jealous that Reynardine would socialize behind her back, but it's all the worse because Jones is involved; Annie's reminded that Reynardine is for all his oftentimes childish behaviour effectively a grown-up and she's not, and she responds to this in the way of a child: with a sense that she is being wronged and betrayed and... ... it's what Todd said. Brilliant analysis.
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Post by sandjosieph on Jun 9, 2009 5:15:41 GMT
I was surprised that Not Third Brinnie From Photo was mildly interested in the speed at which the lesson was accomplished. And is it me or does Eggie's prosumed Mistress have a more human facial expression in Panel 4.
In other news, I can just imagine Dr. Disaster trying to find ways of getting the simulator's programming to work around Smitface's powers.
P.S. Is it me or does Randy Disaster sound a tad unfortunate? I seriously doubt that's his real last name, but I've been wrong before.
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Post by Max on Jun 9, 2009 7:01:02 GMT
Does anyone else think Jones looks unusually glum in the last panel? I mean, she isn't exactly a bundle of joy, but I think her final expression suggests an extra level of disinterest than usual.
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Post by omegax123 on Jun 9, 2009 7:06:18 GMT
P.S. Is it me or does Randy Disaster sound a tad unfortunate? No more so than Randy Daytona, the non-porn-star (the actor who played him, upon hearing the name, said 'am I supposed to be a porn star or something?', according to an interview I saw once) from Balls of Fury.
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mjh
Full Member
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Post by mjh on Jun 9, 2009 9:36:38 GMT
I believe someone had already spotted a regularity in that Reynardine-as-wolf behaves quite differently from Reynardine-as-toy. As a wolf, he acts more mature and less creepy, whereas in his plush toy form he is more like a pubescent teen.
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Post by todd on Jun 9, 2009 10:46:55 GMT
I still think that the look on Annie's face in the next-to-last panel comes from Parley barging in on Jones and Reynardine, thereby interrupting their conversation, rather than from seeing them in a quiet conversation.
(I also think that Annie finds Parley's noisiness and constant pushing Smith around far less amusing than the readers do. It probably makes it difficult for her to learn the things she's hoping to discover in medium classes if Parley interrupts things every few minutes.)
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Post by todd on Jun 9, 2009 11:18:13 GMT
The reason Annie doesn't just outright ask people is because she doesn't trust authority figures and has had to rely on herself to solve her problems in the past, so she figures that adults (or otherwise) aren't going to be that much of a help anyway. I bet she also suspects that she wouldn't get an honest reply if she were to just outright ask. I have a feeling that in the near future Annie and Kat are going to learn about another group of like-minded kids trying to discover what the hell is going on at the Court. They can't be the only ones. Of course, if Annie were to straight out and ask, there'd also be a lot less story (just a few pages of expositionary speeches from the grown-ups, and that's that). I think that one of the big advantages of Tom's giving Annie the characterization and background that she has is that it provides a good in-story reason for why she doesn't take such an approach. Most of the kids around Gunnerkrigg do seem to be ignoring the weirdness - or at least, not making a serious attempt to delve into it. Of course, most of them presumably lack the kind of background that Annie has, which impels her to find out. And even the ones with a more unusual background might occasionally have other reasons for not investigating it (utter indifference to anything that doesn't directly concern her and Gamma in Zimmy's case, for example). It's likely that most of the students see Gunnerkrigg as just a really cool school and decide that as long as they get to have things like spacemonaut simulations, who cares what's behind it? (That may even be one of the purposes of the spacemonaut classes - to distract the children from looking too much into the Court.) Even when a group of children went to spy on the power station at night, half of them seemed more interested in pursuing their budding romances than in serious investigation. Jack seems the only student we've met so far who'd be likely to assist Annie and Kat much in their explorations - though we'll have to wait and find out if that will indeed happen.
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Post by TBeholder on Jun 9, 2009 16:06:18 GMT
If I had to rank articles of clothing I would have expected to see Jones wearing, I would place a brilliant pink scarf at the bottom. Here's a reason: she's just so perfect men give up before making any move, not believing there's any chance. Why, she's cool, looks great, knows so much she constantly looks bored to death (and remember, once she sez "seen... nothing quite like this" it was deemed disturbing as such even by dont-give-a-damn boss), smart, alert and all. Much like Mary Poppins, only minus any vanity and plus ass-kicking. So she feigns dubious fashion sense to look less frustratingly perfect. So does this mean that Reynardine disapproves of Jones/Eglamore? It looks more like Eglamore enjoys her presence but doesn't show it too much, while she wouldn't mind, but that's all. I'm pretty sure Jones "took the test" from the Forest, though. If she so desperately wanted to leave the Wood for the Court, then why would she make it appear like she is above those conflicts between Gillitie and the Court? Because by now she's mostly disappointed in both?
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Post by Rasselas on Jun 9, 2009 16:52:09 GMT
I like the scarf. Maybe she's got a hickey.
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Post by nikita on Jun 9, 2009 21:51:57 GMT
I say the scarf is actually Mort who is eavesdropping again! Ok, that's unrealistic... looking forward to tomorrow.
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Post by Synesthetic Soul on Jun 9, 2009 22:29:03 GMT
I agree with todd, it does look like Annie's nerves were shot when parley did that.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jun 9, 2009 22:43:32 GMT
Annie's face is hilarious. I guess it's unsettling for her to realize that Reynardine and Jones are familiar enough to have a casual chat. I thought that the look on Annie's face in the next-to-last panel was prompted by Parley coming along and interrupting Reynardine and Jones' conversation just as she was hoping to learn something from it. (Judging from the eye-rolling in the second panel, I think Annie's already getting fed up with Parley constantly harassing Smith during their medium classes.) Annie's Serious Face and Parley's exclamation are both occurring in the same panel, so we could just as easily interpret Annie's expression as being simultaneous with Parley's outburst--i.e. this is the face that Annie was making the moment Parley interrupted. So this could be a reaction to seeing Jones and Rey talking per Per's analysis, or just a reaction to Parley. Anyway, I'm reminded of the face Annie made last time she was intently observing Jones. Incidentally, I'm a bit surprised that Annie would take Reynardine along with her on this outing, even if he didn't actually accompany her into the simulation chamber. After certain incidents in their past history, I think she wouldn't want him around while she's in that spacemonaut uniform - though maybe she figured that Reynardine's learned enough from past disciplinary measures not to make any inappropriate remarks. We've seen before that Annie carries Rey around in her knapsack from time to time. Given Rey's behavior in recent months, Annie probably felt that she didn't need to give him an explicit command to stay in the bag (and this may not even be the first time she's trusted him like this). So Rey decided to take advantage of an opportunity to speak with an old acquaintance, and perhaps ask some favor of her. Brynhildr's taking on her "Brinnie" form at the Court wasn't voluntary, however; it was a punishment imposed on her by Odin for disobeying him. She might not have been able to become a student at Gunnerkrigg on her own. Brinnie's attendance at the Court was punishment from Odin. Tom never said that her taking the form of a pre-teen girl was involuntary. Tom is clearly playing fast and loose with his mythology here. In the original Cahuilla folklore, Muut took the form of an owl, not an owl-headed man. And Coyote didn't live in a magic forest in the U.K. And the Moddey-dhoo and Agni (the fellow with multiple arms here) were not psychopomps, but a portent of doom and a fire-god, respectively. Like the original storytellers, Tom is changing the old legends in order to suit the current story. So details like Brynhildr's age or appearance need not conform to the original Norse myth.
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Post by Casey on Jun 9, 2009 22:50:58 GMT
I find your knowledge of multiple mythologies to be impressive.
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Post by todd on Jun 9, 2009 22:53:07 GMT
So details like Brynhildr's age or appearance need not conform to the original Norse myth. True - not to mention that in the original Norse myths, Brynhildr's punishment was being placed in an enchanted sleep within a ring of fire until Sigurd broke through it and awakened her. And also, Brynhildr should have been dead long ago, since the story of Sigurd and Brynhildr is loosely dated to the 5th century A.D. (it features a chieftain named Atli - who actually gets involved in the sequel, after Sigurd and Brynhildr's deaths - who's based on Attila the Hun). So, yes, maybe in this universe Valkyries *do* look around twelve to thirteen. (I don't know if anyone here has read the Percy Jackson series, but in them, the goddess Artemis takes on the form of a girl of that age.) (One other example you forgot to mention - though it was probably far too obvious - was the treatment of the story of Theseus and the Minotaur.)
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jun 9, 2009 22:58:42 GMT
Ninja'd. I find your knowledge of multiple mythologies to be impressive. Actually, this comic inspired me to look up information about them on the internet. And upon further thought, Brinnie's current form being involuntary and part of her punishment is probably the most sensible interpretation. I'm just (needlessly?) nitpicky about the difference between "This is the most probable interpretation" and "This is a FACT". (One other example you forgot to mention - though it was probably far too obvious - was the treatment of the story of Theseus and the Minotaur.) Of course, while the actual events differed, the Gunnerverse's story is identical to ours, thanks to constant retelling and misinterpretation.
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mjh
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Post by mjh on Jun 9, 2009 23:34:15 GMT
Annie's Serious Face and Parley's exclamation are both occurring in the same panel, so we could just as easily interpret Annie's expression as being simultaneous with Parley's outburst--i.e. this is the face that Annie was making the moment Parley interrupted. So this could be a reaction to seeing Jones and Rey talking per Per's analysis, or just a reaction to Parley. I’m with Per on this issue. Annie doesn’t seem to care about Parley’s and Andrew’s quarreling; it’s just background noise to her. In the first panel, Parley and Andrew are ahead with Annie trailing behind, but in panel two she has already overtaken the others, taking no interest whatsoever in their quarrel. Only when she turns around the corner, she stops dead in her tracks, trying to eavesdrop on Jones and Reynardine who hadn’t expected the kids to be back so soon. Annie looks startled at the sight of Reynardine and Jones engaged in a conversation, or maybe at Jones treating Reynardine, not as an enemy, a prisoner, a murderer, or just as Annie’s possession, but as an equal. At least that’s what the short fragment of dialogue suggests to me. Btw, the short exchange between Anja and Reynardine in www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=510 suggests that Anja, too, has started to regard Reynardine with some respect (again?). Given that Anja had spent years devising ways of keeping Reynardine in check, maybe even killing him if necessary to extract him from Sivo, their admittedly stiff greetings (”Reynardine.” “Anja.”) seem to indicate they’ve come to terms with each other somehow.
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Post by todd on Jun 10, 2009 1:23:16 GMT
I think that Annie would care about the quarreling in this case - because it leads to Jones having to break off her conversation with Reynardine and attend to Parley's complaint before Annie can overhear more.
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Post by King Mir on Jun 10, 2009 2:42:41 GMT
I believe someone had already spotted a regularity in that Reynardine-as-wolf behaves quite differently from Reynardine-as-toy. As a wolf, he acts more mature and less creepy, whereas in his plush toy form he is more like a pubescent teen. First, Reynardine himself chooses when to take the wolf form or the plush form. So the fact that he is in his mature form is a reflection of his character as much as anything, and he seems to be in that form more now. Second, Tom has said in the questions to Tom thread that despite what Rey suggests, when Kat makes the observation you mention, there is no physical reason for Rey to behave differently in the two forms.
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Dentrala
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Post by Dentrala on Jun 10, 2009 4:28:30 GMT
First, Reynardine himself chooses when to take the wolf form or the plush form. So the fact that he is in his mature form is a reflection of his character as much as anything, and he seems to be in that form more now. . I think that is partially "You act how you dress" philosophy. If you put a handful of reasonably rowdy (not so much rebellious) 16-year-old kids into nice clothing, in a nice environment, they will naturally act much more dignified and respectful of everyone, including their peers. Although I'm sure part of it is simply that as a wolf, you cannot see his sly smile.
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mjh
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Post by mjh on Jun 10, 2009 8:59:50 GMT
Second, Tom has said in the questions to Tom thread that despite what Rey suggests, when Kat makes the observation you mention, there is no physical reason for Rey to behave differently in the two forms. Surely not a physical reason – it’s not a case of plush brain vs. wolf brain –, but a psychological reason. It may be a matter of self-respect (that would be difficult to keep up as a toy).
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