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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 10, 2023 8:04:51 GMT
Looks like only Antimony can see the Noob in question, yet questions remain. Would he have died if he had been stabbed outside of this distortion? If Antimony hadn't been present would he have appeared as a ghost? Comic up at least 3min early tonight. |
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Post by philman on Nov 10, 2023 8:13:05 GMT
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Post by hnau on Nov 10, 2023 8:15:15 GMT
Fortunately, there is an opening at Gunnerkrigg Court. |
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Post by gpvos on Nov 10, 2023 8:46:50 GMT
There's psychopomping to be done!
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Post by jaybird on Nov 10, 2023 9:10:53 GMT
I wonder if it's significant that Annie didn't see Lana's spirit?
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 10, 2023 9:41:18 GMT
I wonder if it's significant that Annie didn't see Lana's spirit? Yeah, my current hypothesis is that Lana didn't have enough mojo or belief to be a ghost (probably both). This Noobdude "died" in a reality distortion in a scenario made by a red-headed medium, so he's a ghost she can take into the ether... even though he might otherwise be repaired (and continue to function happily) or just have the reality of his stabbing altered to something less destructive one way or another. However, Antimony's memories and expectations are what's driving this so he's probably screwed. That's bad for him, but good for the Noobmenz overall since him going into the ether (which would normally be impossible) should be a shortcut to the Noobmenz becoming more human-like with respect to etheric presence and privileges... ...but of course this is a reality distortion so anything could happen and Zeta could potentially do... pretty much anything... to bring him to a better fate. |
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Post by Coyoty on Nov 10, 2023 9:46:21 GMT
I wonder if it's significant that Annie didn't see Lana's spirit?
I never did think she died. Coyote's playing another trick.
I wouldn't assume the robot people have souls due to Kat. They may have always had souls since they were created. They always seemed to be more machine golem than true robots, animated by spirits either created or captured.
![]( "Right click to shift") ![]( "Right click to shift") |
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Post by silicondream on Nov 10, 2023 11:34:33 GMT
Team Kat: we can reverse-engineer the human organism from scratch, but we can’t make it puncture resistant
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Post by gpvos on Nov 10, 2023 11:38:43 GMT
I wonder if it's significant that Annie didn't see Lana's spirit? Indeed, because she didn't die. Annie will probably draw that conclusion soon. |
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Post by blahzor on Nov 10, 2023 11:54:47 GMT
yep total "Dead Like Me" episode
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Post by blahzor on Nov 10, 2023 11:56:27 GMT
also dark hair girl totally sees him in panel 2, and it's ambigous in panel 7
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Post by ctso74 on Nov 10, 2023 14:35:21 GMT
Dead is a relative term in GC.
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 10, 2023 16:26:43 GMT
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Post by drmemory on Nov 10, 2023 16:36:58 GMT
A day of firsts for Annie! First witnessed death in a Zimmy distortion. First proof that NP are really alive (since they can die). And in just one more page, first time taking a NP into the ether. Or, I suppose, first time having the ROTD show up in a distortion and make the first NP ghost! Also, strong evidence Lana isn't dead, since Annie sees dead people. Still not Annie's fault that the one running all of this decided to manifest Jeanne and have her kill Baldy.
If anything, I'm still suspicious that all of this is being done to educate someone, or many someones, about Annie. Maybe the point is to grow her legend? Back in Chapter 48, Tall Tales, we saw that her legend has spread through the forest. Now we're seeing it spread through the NP. Are you really a meddler if everything really is about you?  |
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Nov 10, 2023 16:49:23 GMT
I've been gone from the forum for quite some time, but man, this I do come back for. Time to psycho- !!! |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Nov 10, 2023 16:59:56 GMT
"If you die in the game (distortion), you die for real!"
This is presumably a Zimmy distortion, with the addition of Coyote and Loup undoubtedly messing things up. Hence Zimmyland, Coyote Riddler, and even the forest representing the Ysengrin side of Loup.
But once we got to the bridge.... well, that's all Annie/ Court territory.
As always, we are clearly seeing things from Annie's POV. Annie is somehow affecting how the "game" runs, probably subconciously, and people who die in Annie's world get 'pomped.
If "Saitama" needs a "shinigami" (keeping with the anime theme), it's because Annie created the need.
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Post by rabbit on Nov 10, 2023 17:00:57 GMT
I never did think she died. Coyote's playing another trick. ![]( "Right click to shift") ![]( "Right click to shift") I agree, I'm of the opinion that the "killing" of Lana was just a ruse to manipulate Loup. Lana may certainly be traumatized, but I think she is alive.
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Post by Eversist on Nov 10, 2023 20:35:23 GMT
DERP, I didn't even consider this possibility on the last page. Nice fakeout.
(I'm also holding out hope that Lana is still alive.)
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Post by jaybird on Nov 10, 2023 22:25:52 GMT
I never did think she died. Coyote's playing another trick. ![]( "Right click to shift") ![]( "Right click to shift") I agree, I'm of the opinion that the "killing" of Lana was just a ruse to manipulate Loup. Lana may certainly be traumatized, but I think she is alive.
Yep, looking v likely that something is up there. Was on the fence for a while but this confirms for me that Lana didn't die/was never real. Lean towards her being a goose wife in some form |
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Post by crater on Nov 11, 2023 1:13:34 GMT
I hope Annie has read Sandman in preparation of her new role
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 11, 2023 11:35:21 GMT
So, like most readers, Annie was initially fooled into thinking the dude had duplicated instead of it being his ghost.
Would he have died if he had been stabbed outside of this distortion? Apart from main characters, Jeanne seemed to have a pretty good track record at killing people, so I guess yes.
Team Kat: we can reverse-engineer the human organism from scratch, but we can’t make it puncture resistant Why should she? The original robot bodies weren't resistant to Jeanne's sword either. And for their new bodies they wanted the human experience anyway. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 11, 2023 19:42:47 GMT
Would he have died if he had been stabbed outside of this distortion? Apart from main characters, Jeanne seemed to have a pretty good track record at killing people, so I guess yes. Jeanne can't make him a person so I don't think she can kill him outside the distortion. Break him? Sure. Render him permanently nonfunctional if stabbed in the right place, yes. However, outside of the reality distortion I don't believe she can kill him and this isn't just a semantic distinction. Diego granted the robots a small amount of etheric mojo and their original designs and programming, which they improved on over the centuries... but they weren't real people. They were real robots or golems. In the GCU where stories are currency they didn't have much more capital than vintage washing machines. Kat added the necessary complexity and subjectivity for them to become people, get lost in their own feelings and perspectives, and shape their own reality like humans can... but to date the GCU and the etheric bureaucracy do not recognize them as such. Now, there is a chance that Lana was part of Loup's disguise... but I think she wasn't a real person either way and there couldn't have been a Lana-ghost when she got munched. Here in the distortion Antimony's memories and expectations are driving things; she thinks of the Noobs as real people and knows she can see ghosts... therefore follicle-challenged Noob ghost. If she takes the ghost into the ether then it sets a precedent that would otherwise have taken a lot of stories, ether, and time to accomplish. It should be a shortcut to getting the Noobs recognized by the GCU as real people. Not sure how to prove this without seeing Noobs die in Antimony's presence outside the distortion but what eventually happens with Lana should at least shed some light on the matter. |
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 12, 2023 14:24:39 GMT
Apart from main characters, Jeanne seemed to have a pretty good track record at killing people, so I guess yes. Jeanne can't make him a person so I don't think she can kill him outside the distortion. Break him? Sure. Render him permanently nonfunctional if stabbed in the right place, yes. However, outside of the reality distortion I don't believe she can kill him and this isn't just a semantic distinction. Diego granted the robots a small amount of etheric mojo and their original designs and programming, which they improved on over the centuries... but they weren't real people. They were real robots or golems. In the GCU where stories are currency they didn't have much more capital than vintage washing machines. Kat added the necessary complexity and subjectivity for them to become people, get lost in their own feelings and perspectives, and shape their own reality like humans can... but to date the GCU and the etheric bureaucracy do not recognize them as such. Now, there is a chance that Lana was part of Loup's disguise... but I think she wasn't a real person either way and there couldn't have been a Lana-ghost when she got munched. Here in the distortion Antimony's memories and expectations are driving things; she thinks of the Noobs as real people and knows she can see ghosts... therefore follicle-challenged Noob ghost. If she takes the ghost into the ether then it sets a precedent that would otherwise have taken a lot of stories, ether, and time to accomplish. It should be a shortcut to getting the Noobs recognized by the GCU as real people. Not sure how to prove this without seeing Noobs die in Antimony's presence outside the distortion but what eventually happens with Lana should at least shed some light on the matter. As far as I understood "New Contract", the New People are recognized as living creatures by the Etheric bueraucracy, and that's the whole reason the Arbiter showed up. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 12, 2023 21:05:00 GMT
Jeanne can't make him a person so I don't think she can kill him outside the distortion. Break him? Sure. Render him permanently nonfunctional if stabbed in the right place, yes. However, outside of the reality distortion I don't believe she can kill him and this isn't just a semantic distinction. Diego granted the robots a small amount of etheric mojo and their original designs and programming, which they improved on over the centuries... but they weren't real people. They were real robots or golems. In the GCU where stories are currency they didn't have much more capital than vintage washing machines. Kat added the necessary complexity and subjectivity for them to become people, get lost in their own feelings and perspectives, and shape their own reality like humans can... but to date the GCU and the etheric bureaucracy do not recognize them as such. Now, there is a chance that Lana was part of Loup's disguise... but I think she wasn't a real person either way and there couldn't have been a Lana-ghost when she got munched. Here in the distortion Antimony's memories and expectations are driving things; she thinks of the Noobs as real people and knows she can see ghosts... therefore follicle-challenged Noob ghost. If she takes the ghost into the ether then it sets a precedent that would otherwise have taken a lot of stories, ether, and time to accomplish. It should be a shortcut to getting the Noobs recognized by the GCU as real people. Not sure how to prove this without seeing Noobs die in Antimony's presence outside the distortion but what eventually happens with Lana should at least shed some light on the matter. As far as I understood "New Contract", the New People are recognized as living creatures by the Etheric bueraucracy, and that's the whole reason the Arbiter showed up. An excellent point, but I think saying that the etheric bureaucracy recognizes the Noobs as living beings like humans would be very premature... but this arbitration will be used as a precedent for when it does happen. Also, the previous page is a better argument for the Noobs being alive, I think, as the Interpreter uses "bring it to life" and "use [the contract] on a living mind" with respect to the Noobs. However, on the page you link to Kat summarizes the problem as, "...the problem is that Arthur isn't an object anymore, and that he's a new living creature" and the Interpreter agrees... but throws in some weasel-words. He says, "Yes, you could describe it that way." The problem as the Interpreter describes it is that Kat was about to transfer Antimony's ownership of Renard['s body] to a new creature [Arthur]. "Creature" would imply life... but the Interpreter goes on to say that would cause "errors across the board" meaning there's multiple problems. We know that one problem is that a single-use contract is being used for multiple parties... but what's the other(s)? They're concerned about the arrow being used to mess things up in the future, of course, but that's the cause and not an effect. I think it's gotta be Arthur's indeterminate state. He/they are complex enough to act as owners but aren't recognized as such (before that point). The Arbiter and the Interpreter have an agenda here. They're not representatives of the whole etheric bureaucracy. Their main concern is contracts and making sure that Diego's arrow isn't used to muck stuff up again, not the afterlife or RotD. I think what's happening is that one division of the bureaucracy is solving its problems by foisting another problem onto another division, something that is horrifically common irl. Treating Arthur and the rest of the Noobs as living beings doesn't affect them any and they aren't really asserting that Arthur et al are alive, they're treating them as such to solve the current issue via applying pressure to Kat. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Nov 13, 2023 2:38:38 GMT
If Lana is a living being, and actually dead, she should be 'pomped... except, to the best of our knowledge, there isn't an NPC 'pomp. If Lana is a living being, and her "death" was fake, she doesn't need a 'pomp. If Lana herself is a sexy disguise or a fake (nevermind the details, that doesn't matter), she doesn't need a 'pomp. If all of the NPCs are not living beings, she doesn't need a 'pomp. The same rules should apply to Saitama. But where did Saitama's ghost come from? Lana didn't have a ghost. She got shoved into a supply closet or something. Maybe NPC purgatory is a closet, because there is no NPC 'pomp. The ghost could be because of the distortion. Annie thinks that Saitama is for-real dead, so there's a for-real ghost. Unfortunately, the ghost could also be a figment of Annie's imagination, and when the distortion goes away, the ghost poofs. UNLESS! We aren't dealing with NPCs and Jeanne at all - after all, the real Jeanne is no longer the angry ghost who "killed" Saitama. I don't even want to get into what if a fake "Jeanne" actually fake "killed" a fake "Saitama," all of whom are actually Kat/ Zimmy/ Gamma/ Coyote/ Loup/ Annie! |
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Post by Igniz on Nov 13, 2023 12:03:56 GMT
But... do these Reploids still qualify as fridges and ovens?  yep total "Dead Like Me" episode At least there are not gravelings in sight.  |
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 13, 2023 18:24:18 GMT
Annie gets up and moves toward the bald NP, whose doppelgänger is lying unmoving on the floor, asking him if he's OK. But the long-black-haired NP asks Annie to whom she is speaking, causing Annie to have a stunned revelation and look back over her shoulder at the black-haired one. The bald one then has his own stunned revelation, looks at himself on the ground, and asks whether that's him. Annie then looks up at the bald NP – he is taller than Annie, but in this frame he looks a LOT taller – and hesitantly explains to him that he's dead. The black-haired NP looks on with astonishment in this final frame. OK, he's the first NP we know to have died, and here's his ghost, so apparently that can happen to NP. Where's Lana's ghost? It could mean that she isn't dead, or it could mean that, as pyradonis noted, her ghost could still be somehow detained by Coyote. So this doesn't tell us anything about Lana's status. So is Annie going to have to be his spirit guide? Are the psychopomps going to show up and demand that Annie take up her post now? I guess we'll see ... |
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Post by drmemory on Nov 16, 2023 6:28:21 GMT
The Moddey Dhoo actually mentioned contracts! When he and Mallt-Y-Nos argued about jurisdiction, and who should collect the little burned boy. In the "new contract" incident, the interpreter explained that the arbiter was there because Kat was about to use the arrow to transfer Annie's ownership of Renard to a new creature (Arthur). One of the faults was that she was trying to apply a contract of ownership of an inanimate object to a living mind.
Since Kat's new contract was multi-use and used for ALL of the NP mind transfers, it is possible that they are all in Annie's jurisdiction, as the contract was originally hers. Alternatively, they may belong to Kat in a sense, thanks to what she did with the arrow and because she is the one that got a new contract.
Kat did not read the fine print, so we can't know for sure until we see what happens next.
I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we are about to see some of those "severe consequences" that the interpreter warned Kat about.
Maybe Annie can't take Sam into the ether because he belongs to Kat.
Heck, taking that thought a little further, maybe Kat has to be the psychopomp of the NPs! Except that I'm not sure that their souls are supposed to go into the ether, rather than into Kat in some way.
So while we may be about to see a psychopomp or an ROTD rep show up, or even Arbiter Salsamel, I'm guessing it may instead be someone new. Some sort of contractual enforcer. On the bright side, it probably won't be Annie that's in trouble. On the bad side, Kat is probably in trouble, and it may be harder to get out of it this time.
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Post by guntherkrieg on Nov 16, 2023 10:45:01 GMT
Lana is being contained (alive) within Coyote. I thought that was pretty obvious. Ever seen a baseball mascot "eat" someone? Like that. |
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Post by blahzor on Nov 17, 2023 7:01:05 GMT
Lana is being contained (alive) within Coyote. I thought that was pretty obvious. Ever seen a baseball mascot "eat" someone? Like that. Coyote gets to be a real girl with NP inside of him. The truest death when he tricks Annie to stabbing him |
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