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Post by Timberwere on May 31, 2023 7:12:14 GMT
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Post by arf on May 31, 2023 7:22:16 GMT
"But Jerrek, this was the graveyard!!"
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laaaa
Full Member
Posts: 214
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Post by laaaa on May 31, 2023 8:12:34 GMT
...I wouldn't say it's "fitting", I'd say it's "the absolute minimum" but WHATEVER. You get a sticker for doing the right thing, Loup.
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Post by yellowb on May 31, 2023 9:07:58 GMT
Will be interesting to see what impact this will have... and what will lead to Loup's "bitter wrath".
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Post by blahzor on May 31, 2023 9:22:20 GMT
Kat: I mean I could have done that but these NP's need jobs
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Post by Per on May 31, 2023 12:57:45 GMT
"But Jerrek, this was the graveyard!!" "T-the combined robo-smallpox and robo-anthrax graveyard! *cough*" "Yes yes but I have proved my good intentions now right" |
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Post by guntherkrieg on May 31, 2023 13:12:39 GMT
"Look! I've done something barely good! For partially my own benefit! Friends?"
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Post by ctso74 on May 31, 2023 13:18:33 GMT
Annie, like us, is very aware of the Dead Goose story. I wonder if she's willing to accept any action of goodwill, as a valid action. Can we? An interesting philosophical questions on identity and responsibility.
Then again, he did just roast Rey's body like a campfire log. I'm surprised he didn't pass out marshmallows.
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Post by Gemminie on May 31, 2023 15:01:03 GMT
Four unnamed New People watch robots emerging from the soil, and at least two of them run out to start rescuing them. Then, as Annie looks on in astonishment and we see more New People springing into action in the background, Jerrek says that he should raise them up again because he's the one who buried them. Behind him, Lana has her hands to her mouth in surprise, amazement, or some other emotion. Tom's note is "MY BOYFRIEND IS SO COOL!" so that could easily be her emotion.
But again, does this really prove what Jerrek/Loup is trying to prove? I don't know. Loup also evicted every living thing from the Forest and may well have killed a lot of those living things. There may not be a Forest left for them to return to. It's unclear, because we never get a good look at what the area that used to be the Forest looks like now. Is there more forest there? Or is there a big hole with a transdimensional void at the bottom? Or is it all just dirt and scrub, like we see in the ruins, but without the buildings? Anyway, he's done a lot more damage than just that. Is he going to fix it all? I doubt it. So will Annie, Kat, and Renard really believe that he's changed his mind about Coyote's plan?
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Post by pyradonis on May 31, 2023 15:35:39 GMT
"You're gonna need a bigger boatload of tracksuits."
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Post by jda on May 31, 2023 19:44:54 GMT
But again, does this really prove what Jerrek/Loup is trying to prove? I don't know. Loup also evicted every living thing from the Forest and may well have killed a lot of those living things. There may not be a Forest left for them to return to. Point taken. Re-create the Forest, pal, and let in peace all persons/animals/individuals that want to go back there. THEN you can help retracting all your fake wood and trees, take back all previous Forest denizens, and reconstruct the damaged buildings of the Court. ONLY THEN we can talk about peace. |
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Post by drmemory on May 31, 2023 20:08:10 GMT
I think this is a very positive sign - this is the first time I can remember that Loup actually did something that benefits others but not himself! At least, not directly. You can't expect him to instantly warp from what he was to a well-socialized good person. I'm also a bit relieved he did this rather than rewinding time or rebuilding the forest - it shows he's at least considering the consequences of possible actions somewhat. He still might mess with time a little, if that's what is needed to get Renard a fox body again, but even that is pretty measured compared to some of the things we've seen him do in the past. He also didn't go on a killing spree or anything along those lines, and perhaps even more important, hasn't insulted anyone! Lot of growth there. As usual, I'm worried about what's going on out of view. Who do you figure gave the NP the task of digging up the old robots for their brains? Annie? Robot? Or did they originate this task themselves? We know Robot is the one robotic main character that definitely has his own agenda. Whatever effect Kat's contract has on the NP won't affect him, and we've seen him scheme and manipulate quite a bit really. I don't know that he's a bad guy or anything, I'm just wondering how well his motivations align with those of Kat. Also, whether he is Diego.  Or at least reprogrammed by him. |
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Post by Isildur on Jun 2, 2023 7:37:53 GMT
I think this is a very positive sign - this is the first time I can remember that Loup actually did something that benefits others but not himself! At least, not directly. You can't expect him to instantly warp from what he was to a well-socialized good person. I'm also a bit relieved he did this rather than rewinding time or rebuilding the forest - it shows he's at least considering the consequences of possible actions somewhat. He still might mess with time a little, if that's what is needed to get Renard a fox body again, but even that is pretty measured compared to some of the things we've seen him do in the past. He also didn't go on a killing spree or anything along those lines, and perhaps even more important, hasn't insulted anyone! Lot of growth there. As usual, I'm worried about what's going on out of view. Who do you figure gave the NP the task of digging up the old robots for their brains? Annie? Robot? Or did they originate this task themselves? We know Robot is the one robotic main character that definitely has his own agenda. Whatever effect Kat's contract has on the NP won't affect him, and we've seen him scheme and manipulate quite a bit really. I don't know that he's a bad guy or anything, I'm just wondering how well his motivations align with those of Kat. Also, whether he is Diego. Or at least reprogrammed by him. Diego definitely died. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1316 |
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Post by drmemory on Jun 2, 2023 20:30:32 GMT
I think this is a very positive sign - this is the first time I can remember that Loup actually did something that benefits others but not himself! At least, not directly. You can't expect him to instantly warp from what he was to a well-socialized good person. I'm also a bit relieved he did this rather than rewinding time or rebuilding the forest - it shows he's at least considering the consequences of possible actions somewhat. He still might mess with time a little, if that's what is needed to get Renard a fox body again, but even that is pretty measured compared to some of the things we've seen him do in the past. He also didn't go on a killing spree or anything along those lines, and perhaps even more important, hasn't insulted anyone! Lot of growth there. As usual, I'm worried about what's going on out of view. Who do you figure gave the NP the task of digging up the old robots for their brains? Annie? Robot? Or did they originate this task themselves? We know Robot is the one robotic main character that definitely has his own agenda. Whatever effect Kat's contract has on the NP won't affect him, and we've seen him scheme and manipulate quite a bit really. I don't know that he's a bad guy or anything, I'm just wondering how well his motivations align with those of Kat. Also, whether he is Diego. Or at least reprogrammed by him. Diego definitely died. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1316Absolutely. But that doesn't mean he didn't put a copy of his mind in one of his golems. Or something along those lines. There also is time travel in Tom's universe, so I don't see how we can rule out Diego being involved with the present, perhaps even directly.
As for his recording - Kat turned it off before it was done, right? He may have been about to say "But at least my avatar will save them" or something. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jun 3, 2023 7:40:35 GMT
He started the house fire, but at least he also put it out!
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Post by Isildur on Jun 9, 2023 21:28:25 GMT
Absolutely. But that doesn't mean he didn't put a copy of his mind in one of his golems. Or something along those lines. There also is time travel in Tom's universe, so I don't see how we can rule out Diego being involved with the present, perhaps even directly.
As for his recording - Kat turned it off before it was done, right? He may have been about to say "But at least my avatar will save them" or something. Funny — I did think of (and considered mentioning) the possibility of time travel (and the theoretical possibility of viewing your own final record), but that seems really, really unlikely to me as a direction for Diego. Robot somehow being a full copy of Diego? I heavily, heavily doubt it. Some special programming? More possible, perhaps, except the present Seraph series seem to be a later tech generation, similar to the other present court robots. Kat's dealt with Robot's chip; surely she'd have noticed Diego-era tech like she encountered in the vault. Unless Robot (and possibly the other present S series) had their software copied over from a previous generation of bots, like the Diego-era S1? www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=417As far as the robots (now New People) knew, the little projector bot was the "last remaining original model with a memory intact". www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=647Incidentally, I guess it's still a robot, not a New Person, since it would not have the force-field-generating override of the newer robots? Neither for that matter did the S series in general. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2139So maybe that points to them at least antedating the other robots and whoever implemented that override. (Still a mystery, I think: What was that extra piece even on Robot's chip?) |
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Post by drmemory on Jun 11, 2023 0:59:38 GMT
Absolutely. But that doesn't mean he didn't put a copy of his mind in one of his golems. Or something along those lines. There also is time travel in Tom's universe, so I don't see how we can rule out Diego being involved with the present, perhaps even directly.
As for his recording - Kat turned it off before it was done, right? He may have been about to say "But at least my avatar will save them" or something. Funny — I did think of (and considered mentioning) the possibility of time travel (and the theoretical possibility of viewing your own final record), but that seems really, really unlikely to me as a direction for Diego. Robot somehow being a full copy of Diego? I heavily, heavily doubt it. Some special programming? More possible, perhaps, except the present Seraph series seem to be a later tech generation, similar to the other present court robots. Kat's dealt with Robot's chip; surely she'd have noticed Diego-era tech like she encountered in the vault. Unless Robot (and possibly the other present S series) had their software copied over from a previous generation of bots, like the Diego-era S1? www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=417As far as the robots (now New People) knew, the little projector bot was the "last remaining original model with a memory intact". www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=647Incidentally, I guess it's still a robot, not a New Person, since it would not have the force-field-generating override of the newer robots? Neither for that matter did the S series in general. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2139So maybe that points to them at least antedating the other robots and whoever implemented that override. (Still a mystery, I think: What was that extra piece even on Robot's chip?) I don't think he is a full copy of Diego either. BUT, he may have a copy of Diego or at least Diego's memories in his special little green chip. Or maybe it contains a bit of Diego-created override programming...
As for the little projector bot, I'm glad you reminded us of him. What is he, exactly? I have always assumed he was sort of a toy, like the others on the shelf that Jean broke in her anger. But that may not be true. Consider:
The golems were created by Diego directly. The first golem Kat revived claimed that they had created the first generation of the robots after their father (Diego) died. So it can't really be a robot (vs. a golem) because it was created by Diego. So... it almost has to be a golem, doesn't it? Or something else that hasn't been described, like a toy or pet or at least some other kind of lower-capability unit. We haven't seen it talk or do anything but play back its ancient recordings.
The Seraphs are the other big mystery. They sure don't act like golem robots. They don't really act like modern robots either. So what are they? Did Diego create them? Could they be an early version of the modern robots?
I still think it's possible there is only one Seraph robot, that was shifted into many at some point. I've mentioned this theory before. If true, then S13 was identical to the others until something happened. I've suggested a trip through time for this but that's just one possibility. Maybe it's a mutant? Or touched by Coyote?
Another mystery - the evolution of the robots. Were all the modern robots created by the golem robots, or did they evolve after his death somehow? If the latter, how did that occur? Was there another roboticist? Or did the golems keep trying? The one Kat woke up was impressed with Robot's body at the time but Kat created that. He didn't comment on any of the others. It seems likely (to me) that the golems worked at this until they were satisfied, before killing themselves, but I have no idea whether that means they built the robots and were done or if they tried out a bunch of different theories first.
I used to have a thread for robotic mysteries but there is probably no point in trying to revive it and move this there. If nothing else, I feel like we may be about to get answers to some of the mysteries, possibly including learning S13's goals past "evolve all the robots into NP". |
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Post by yellowb on Jun 14, 2023 22:42:08 GMT
Were all the modern robots created by the golem robots, or did they evolve after his death somehow? If the latter, how did that occur? Was there another roboticist? Or did the golems keep trying? The one Kat woke up was impressed with Robot's body at the time but Kat created that. He didn't comment on any of the others The golem Kat woke up was indeed impressed by the few court robots he saw as well: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=892He explains it all in panels 4 to 7 (for some definitions of "explain" and "it all"). |
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Post by drmemory on Jun 16, 2023 16:36:11 GMT
Were all the modern robots created by the golem robots, or did they evolve after his death somehow? If the latter, how did that occur? Was there another roboticist? Or did the golems keep trying? The one Kat woke up was impressed with Robot's body at the time but Kat created that. He didn't comment on any of the others The golem Kat woke up was indeed impressed by the few court robots he saw as well: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=892He explains it all in panels 4 to 7 (for some definitions of "explain" and "it all"). Ah! You are correct. So I wonder how they kept evolving after the golems did their Jonestown thing?
I can't remember seeing anything about robot evolution before Kat came along - we've never seen a robot working to upgrade another robot have we? We saw that Diego created the golems, and that the golems created the first generation (at least) of robots. No information after that.
So I guess there must be roboticists among the court. Sort of makes sense - we know someone came up with Arthur and set it up so he'd get a new body (new version too) every so often, and we know someone had to be repairing them.
As for the Seraphs - I picture something like this:
1. Court robotics person creates a Seraph, as a new model that is meant to help enforce court policy among the robots or something. Some sort of policeman?
2. Shifting happens, due to Coyote in some way. Suddenly there are many Seraphs. 3. Court robotics person sees this, curses about the f-ing ether, and walks off grumbling.
Maybe that's also the origin story of the court's Shadow Men organization. |
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Or at least reprogrammed by him.
