[2496] I mean for you to kill him with it

[philman]

Just a simple request

[madjack]

Finally, that Chekhov's Gun goes off.

[caber]

Well, guess that longstanding theory is confirmed. Cookies for the one's who called it. 🍪

[mzpx]

So I guess the question on everybody's mind is why killing Loup is beneficial to Coyote (amusement factor?), as well as why on earth Loup would agree that's a good idea (Coyote is reborn with full control of powers and no 'no interference' policy?).

Also, just how far will Coyote's lack of empathy go, expecting a teenager to just kill another intelligent being for his amusement. Seriously, he has done some very shady stuff, but this is next level. I wonder how Annie will react - what if she just says 'absolutely no way', will that cause Coyote to abandon her? Or force/blackmail her?

[aline]

That page was posted in 2010! Coyote gave the tooth to Annie the same day he pushed her onto Ysengrin's path. Made her his friend and gave her the weapon to kill him. Or, I suppose, what would become of him.

But Annie isn't a killer and she never considered using the blade against Loup so far. Coyote made sure Loup would get that knowledge at an appropriately dramatic time and that he would expect his own death. I wonder what the true endgame is.

[arf]

Jul 21, 2021 7:01:59 GMT madjack said:

Finally, that Chekhov's Gun goes off.

In a manner that wasn't quite expected, as in, 'Loup will know about his form of death, too.'.

No wonder Loup is set to go troppo in realtime, and no wonder Coyote warned Aata before dismissing him.

[madjack]

Jul 21, 2021 7:11:45 GMT aline said:

I wonder what the true endgame is.

Even if the tooth is actually used to kill Loup, I wonder if it'll have some other purpose too, like symbolically and maybe physically separating the Court and Forest for good, or something like that.

[philman]

Jul 21, 2021 7:18:13 GMT madjack said:

Jul 21, 2021 7:11:45 GMT aline said:

I wonder what the true endgame is.

Even if the tooth is actually used to kill Loup, I wonder if it'll have some other purpose too, like symbolically and maybe physically separating the Court and Forest for good, or something like that.

Oh there is definitely something else happening behind this too, but I don't expect Coyote to tell us what it is. Coyote loves fun, and half the fun is finding out!

[machiavelli33]

...it suddenly makes sense.

When we first saw it, the gift seemed a whimsical act, but years later we've seen what it means when Coyote grants things from his body, such as his STRENGTH.

So the blade came from Coyote's body, and is thus a tangible piece of Coyote's power. I wonder...which piece? His power to kill? His power to sever the ether? His power to CUT GODS?

I'm ever more curious as to exactly what power that blade represents - because now we can infer that it is a power that LOUP does not have.

[imaginaryfriend]

The Tooth could be used to cut Ysengrin from "Loup."

[speedwell]

Jul 21, 2021 7:10:54 GMT mzpx said:

So I guess the question on everybody's mind is why killing Loup is beneficial to Coyote (amusement factor?), as well as why on earth Loup would agree that's a good idea (Coyote is reborn with full control of powers and no 'no interference' policy?).

Also, just how far will Coyote's lack of empathy go, expecting a teenager to just kill another intelligent being for his amusement. Seriously, he has done some very shady stuff, but this is next level. I wonder how Annie will react - what if she just says 'absolutely no way', will that cause Coyote to abandon her? Or force/blackmail her?

It is a Quest of the Gods and this is a Fantasy Story.

[Igniz]

As with all things Coyote, I'd take that "kill" with a grain of salt.

[Eversist]

Jul 21, 2021 7:23:49 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

The Tooth could be used to cut Ysengrin from "Loup."

This is a theory I've seen floated a few times since Loup's creation, and I think it's pretty likely!

Which then again... makes me feel it's not at all likely. Hah.

[shinkaii]

Hey, the time-stopy blue border is back!

[manabi]

Jul 21, 2021 7:10:54 GMT mzpx said:

So I guess the question on everybody's mind is why killing Loup is beneficial to Coyote (amusement factor?), as well as why on earth Loup would agree that's a good idea (Coyote is reborn with full control of powers and no 'no interference' policy?).

Also, just how far will Coyote's lack of empathy go, expecting a teenager to just kill another intelligent being for his amusement. Seriously, he has done some very shady stuff, but this is next level. I wonder how Annie will react - what if she just says 'absolutely no way', will that cause Coyote to abandon her? Or force/blackmail her?

I'll bet Coyote has set things up such that Annie won't have a choice.  Loup's about to attack the court, and will have to be stopped, after all.  It's also possible the blade won't work on Loup unless Annie wields it.  Or perhaps in the process of destroying the Omega project, Loup will be so severely wounded that he begs Annie to use it to put him out of his misery.

The latter could explain why it's beneficial to Coyote for Loup to be killed: destroying the Omega project will cause fatal injuries, so some god-like being has to die permanently  to do it, and Coyote didn't want to be the one.

Or maybe using the blade on Loup will essentially sever Coyote and Ysengrin, killing Loup but bringing those two back to life.

[guntherkrieg]

Time for another round of: is it psychopathy or is it comedy?

Hint: it's both.

[guntherkrieg]

Here's the thing... I know Coyote operates on a level of 4D chess that is far above the ability/perception of the main characters. That's one of the things that makes him so frightening. And yes, I know that Coyote is a trickster, and tricksters have tricks within tricks and even when they've lost they've actually won, or taught a lesson, and so on. However, I would love to see some of Coyote's plans go awry. At the moment he feels very much like the exposed hand of the narrator, and it's a bit tiring.

Random guess: The Tooth splits Loup, but we end up with a more tricks-y version of Ysengrin, and a more sullen and angry version of Coyote. And thus Coyote gets to experience not only death, but rebirth.

[pyradonis]

Jul 21, 2021 7:11:45 GMT aline said:

That page was posted in 2010! Coyote gave the tooth to Annie the same day he pushed her onto Ysengrin's path. Made her his friend and gave her the weapon to kill him. Or, I suppose, what would become of him.

But Annie isn't a killer and she never considered using the blade against Loup so far. Coyote made sure Loup would get that knowledge at an appropriately dramatic time and that he would expect his own death. I wonder what the true endgame is.

Yes, this right now is a bit meager to be the whole wonderful plan.

[speedwell]

I'm thinking it might be a little bit against the professional ethics of a psychopomp to, you know, generate their own business.

[todd]

Jul 21, 2021 7:09:19 GMT caber said:

Well, guess that longstanding theory is confirmed. Cookies for the one's who called it. 🍪

I'd certainly suspected about the lake water containing the memory of the Tooth (it would explain, for example, why Loup wasn't demanding it back alongside Coyote's other gifts).

I hadn't been as certain about Annie having to use the Tooth to kill Loup, though I know many other people had speculated on it.

[todd]

Jul 21, 2021 7:10:54 GMT mzpx said:

So I guess the question on everybody's mind is why killing Loup is beneficial to Coyote (amusement factor?), as well as why on earth Loup would agree that's a good idea (Coyote is reborn with full control of powers and no 'no interference' policy?).

Also, just how far will Coyote's lack of empathy go, expecting a teenager to just kill another intelligent being for his amusement. Seriously, he has done some very shady stuff, but this is next level. I wonder how Annie will react - what if she just says 'absolutely no way', will that cause Coyote to abandon her? Or force/blackmail her?

Knowing Coyote, he'd probably find the scheme especially appealing because it requires Annie to become a literal "carver". The word-play would be irresistible to him.

[ohthatone]

Someone or someones had speculated recently that coyote (and possibly by extension loup) were planning on using the Court to become a Real Boy, perhaps annie using the tooth won't kill Loup so much as separate him from the ether. We saw the tooth used to bring Shadow from one state of being to another, and making the dog god trio into a meatbag mortal would in essence "kill" the three of them, as they would then exist and would then eventually be subject to not existing.
I really don't think for-reals death is actually what coyote wants so I'm not putting to much stock in this.

[Gemminie]

OK, wow. There's a lot on this page. First of all, though, Coyote's just banished Aata from the conversation, and Annie asks Coyote who Aata really is. "Ah, a beautiful failure, I'm afraid," is the only answer she gets. I'd been thinking that either Coyote's "Failed Cousin" moniker for him was either a reference to just now, when he'd attempted to steal Coyote's power but failed, or to some time ago, when he attempted to become a god (or at least an ethereal entity like Renard or Ysengrin) but failed somehow. But this "beautiful failure" suggests that the latter is more likely correct; he and Coyote have a history and have at least known of each other for some time. And as is usual with Coyote, one question answered means at least one more question raised. We don't really know the nature of Aata's failure: what did he attempt, and in what way did he fail? And, in fact, did he fail at all? Is he only a "failure" by Coyote's definition? Perhaps Aata succeeded by his own definition. But we still don't know exactly when this happened, or exactly what Aata attempted.

The gray panel borders have returned, and Coyote's tail still leads off into the distance, suggesting that he's still connected to the beam that's streaking off toward the Court.

In frame two, Coyote's about to tell her more stuff, but Annie actually interrupts and asks why he keeps things secret from Loup. Coyote's answer is that it's for both Loup's benefit and Coyote's. Perhaps in order to understand that the plan will be "wonderful," Loup can't learn about it until he's matured a bit and gained some perspective. This, of course, also benefits Coyote. Perhaps the plan will "benefit" Loup in the sense that it will defeat the Court, a thing that Loup badly wants to see happen, though it will also result in his death. Perhaps. We'll see.

Of course, Annie asks how dying benefitted Coyote, but of course he doesn't answer that directly. And then WHAM, Coyote confirms some speculative theories that the story's obliquely teased us with for ages. First, the memory of creating Coyote's tooth/dagger is contained within the lake water, so Loup will know about that as soon as he gets the lake water's memories. This is why Coyote put the binding on Annie's wrist to make sure she wouldn't tell anyone about it, not even Ysengrin; he didn't want to spoil the moment of revelation that seems to be coming very soon now. And second, Coyote's reason for giving her the tooth/dagger was so she could kill Loup with it. No more maybes or speculation about that. Of course, Coyote could still have had other reasons to give it to her; nothing he says here makes that impossible. And we still don't know exactly in what way Loup will die. It'll happen after he agrees the plan is "wonderful"; that's all we know.

I'm thinking Annie's going to have some questions about that. How much Coyote will answer ... depends on Coyote. The fact that he's still connected to the Court's beam suggests that this fragment of Coyote either can't break free from it or doesn't want to (yet, at least). Perhaps he will give the Court exactly enough power to move his plan forward one step. Or perhaps he's just been messing around, waiting to break free until after he unfreezes time so all the Shadow Men can see that their plan didn't work, so they won't try it again.

[Blitz]

Antimony Carver: "hol up"

[pyradonis]

You know I have a bit of trouble following panel 3. Coyote says he kept his plans secret from Loup for his own as well as Loup's benefit. Annie then asks "How was it beneficial for you to die?". But that seems like a follow-up question to something Coyote never said. In fact, Loup has been aware of Coyote's wish to die the whole time. So... what's up with that question?

Jul 21, 2021 12:29:35 GMT speedwell said:

I'm thinking it might be a little bit against the professional ethics of a psychopomp to, you know, generate their own business.

It would also be blatantly against their rules, which forbid them from interfering with the world of the living.

Good for Annie that she's not an official psychopomp yet, huh? ;-)

Another thought. Loup has creepily proclaimed his "love" for Annie etc. etc. and at least until shortly she was sure he wouldn't hurt her. But will that still hold if he learns she is meant to kill him? Or will he consider removing Annie from the picture so this plan never comes to fruition?

[bicarbonat]

Old Yeller 2 Fast 2 Furious

[bedinsis]

Prediction: once this time stop ends and Loup gets to take in the memory of the lake water he will bring up Coyote's tooth and request Annie bring it to him, but not mention anything of the purpose behind Coyote creating and giving it to Annie. He'll also subtly stay on his guard from now on, both in this meeting and in the upcoming meeting where Annie will bring the tooth.

[Ahakarin]

How can we add more tension than just the impending fallout from the Court's illfated attempts to bamboozle the violent unbalanced chaos deity? Add one posthumous murder plot from the previous chaos deity!

[mzpx]

Jul 21, 2021 7:26:07 GMT speedwell said:

Jul 21, 2021 7:10:54 GMT mzpx said:

So I guess the question on everybody's mind is why killing Loup is beneficial to Coyote (amusement factor?), as well as why on earth Loup would agree that's a good idea (Coyote is reborn with full control of powers and no 'no interference' policy?).

Also, just how far will Coyote's lack of empathy go, expecting a teenager to just kill another intelligent being for his amusement. Seriously, he has done some very shady stuff, but this is next level. I wonder how Annie will react - what if she just says 'absolutely no way', will that cause Coyote to abandon her? Or force/blackmail her?

It is a Quest of the Gods and this is a Fantasy Story.

Jul 21, 2021 7:35:12 GMT Igniz said:

As with all things Coyote, I'd take that "kill" with a grain of salt.

I mean, does that make this NOT asking a teenager to commit murder? Let's not rationalise this away - I can't think of a way in which this is in any way okay. Obviously, I'm open to suggestions! 

Jul 21, 2021 8:56:48 GMT manabi said:

I'll bet Coyote has set things up such that Annie won't have a choice.  Loup's about to attack the court, and will have to be stopped, after all.  It's also possible the blade won't work on Loup unless Annie wields it.  Or perhaps in the process of destroying the Omega project, Loup will be so severely wounded that he begs Annie to use it to put him out of his misery.

Oh god, that's even darker and more twisted.

Jul 21, 2021 12:34:58 GMT todd said:

Knowing Coyote, he'd probably find the scheme especially appealing because it requires Annie to become a literal "carver". The word-play would be irresistible to him.

I'd not be surprised if the Friday page starts with that. This whole thing just underlines that the more we find out about Coyote, the more we realise that he really is no better than the Court leadership. I just feel bad for the average Forest and Court inhabitant, fingers crossed Mecha!Kat will bring about salvation to both sides while getting rid of both leaderships.

Jul 21, 2021 16:35:10 GMT Blitz said:

Antimony Carver: "hol up"

'She just got over the trauma I and her mother's death caused her and now you want to give her even MORE trauma???'

[pyradonis]

Jul 21, 2021 18:39:07 GMT Ahakarin said:

How can we add more tension than just the impending fallout from the Court's illfated attempts to bamboozle the violent unbalanced chaos deity? Add one posthumous murder plot from the previous chaos deity!

User avatar checks out.