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Post by madjack on Jan 10, 2020 8:27:59 GMT
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Post by philman on Jan 10, 2020 8:31:16 GMT
Oh Annie(s), walking through life clueless to everyone elses' motivations. And oh Paz, to be so worried about the ones you love  |
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Post by madjack on Jan 10, 2020 8:36:01 GMT
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Post by Elysium on Jan 10, 2020 8:45:55 GMT
Oh Annie(s), walking through life clueless to everyone elses' motivations. Name a more iconic duo. |
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Jan 10, 2020 8:50:01 GMT
Yeah, that was the first thing that came to mind too, and would seem like something Kat would feel she can't discuss with anyone else. Only she, the Annies and Rey know about it, since everyone else was frozen back then. Also, imagine what the Court would do if they found out? |
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Post by Eversist on Jan 10, 2020 8:53:41 GMT
Hm. I get where Paz is coming from, but I wonder if she's going to offer some sort of solution this time, rather than just be more threatening (or just attempt to carry out her previous vague threat). Then again... teenagers.  Also, can we assume it's been "a few weeks" between the end of Chapter 70 and now? |
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Post by stclair on Jan 10, 2020 9:05:50 GMT
So this chapter is going to be all about people blaming Annie(s) for what the unstable psycho deity did.
Great.
Fantastic.
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Post by worldsong on Jan 10, 2020 9:21:54 GMT
So this chapter is going to be all about people blaming Annie(s) for what the unstable psycho deity did. Great. Fantastic. Seems like it.
It's understandable that people would look at Annie because she seems to always be in the eye of the storm but a lot of the trouble she stumbles into was already present and she just brought it to the surface with her curiosity or other people/entities reacted to Annie's presence/actions outside of her knowledge, consent or intent.
If I had to hazard a guess I'd say that Kat is currently obsessed with trying to free the shield-robots... and Annie isn't the one who put them there. She just informed Kat that the Court was planning to use their own method which apparently turns the robots into... robo-zombies? Robo-puppets? |
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Post by Igniz on Jan 10, 2020 10:11:33 GMT
If I had to hazard a guess I'd say that Kat is currently obsessed with trying to free the shield-robots... and Annie isn't the one who put them there. She just informed Kat that the Court was planning to use their own method which apparently turns the robots into... robo-zombies? Robo-puppets? Except that the Twannies told her that after her argument with Paz. So, even if she is busy with the robot situation, it can be deduced that what has been occupying her the most is the Annie conundrum, which is clearly evidenced with the last two panels of this page, foreshadowing her current situation and state of mind. |
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Post by worldsong on Jan 10, 2020 10:19:54 GMT
Except that the Twannies told her that after her argument with Paz. So, even if she is busy with the robot situation, it can be deduced that what has been occupying her the most is the Annie conundrum, which is clearly evidenced with the last two panels of this page, foreshadowing her current situation and state of mind. Hmmm... fair enough. That said that still falls into the category of things which aren't really Annie's fault. She certainly didn't ask to be split into two, didn't give her consent (unless we've got some kind of situation where a version of Annie agreed to it but neither of the currently present Annies are aware of that), and while one could argue that it wouldn't have happened if Annie hadn't gone to talk to Loup there's the argument to be made that when the trickster god is suddenly replaced by a violent alternative it's not your fault when you, having the best track record with the previous trickster god, try to approach the violent variant and said violent trickster god splits you in two. |
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Post by csj on Jan 10, 2020 10:23:50 GMT
On one hand, it's happened beforeOn the other, 'wow, I sure understand how problematic and troublesome it is to exist with a god whose power level can barely be measured in giga-gokus holding your true self hostage, it must be superrrr harrrrrrd' |
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Post by flowsthead on Jan 10, 2020 10:42:34 GMT
I can't blame Paz for feeling protective of Kat, but I do think it's a little silly that so few people seem to care that Annie has been taking on problems that are much bigger than her for pretty much this entire time. The problem that Kat is worrying over was caused because Annie went to face Loup basically by herself. She has a ton of problems she has to deal with in her own life, and she's still out there helping the Forest folk and doing her job as a medium.
Could Annie be better about recognizing Kat's worries? Yeah, of course, she's a teenager and she's still working on self-awareness and awareness of others. But she's also been shown many times to be worried about what Kat is dealing with, like when they went camping and Annie was worried that Kat wouldn't be able to make friends because she was too close to Annie. And if we're playing the problem game, Kat really has none. She has great parents, her grades are good, her classmates are nice and generally friendly with her, and she has a nice girlfriend. Most of the things that Kat has had to deal with are external problems, like Diego's legacy, rather than internal problems, at least so far (although eventually Robot will be a problem for her externally and internally). Annie has had to deal with way more problems, so it makes sense that a fair amount of Kat's worries have been for Annie.
There is an element to this that is bothering me in the same way that the "Red blames Annie for everything" storyline bothered me, which is just a lack of acknowledgement of how much easier everyone has it compared to Annie (except for Zimmy and Gamma). I know Paz is also a teenager so she is also struggling in this area same as Annie, but it feels like because Annie's norm is messed up there is a general lack of empathy for her struggles.
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Post by ghostiet on Jan 10, 2020 10:53:37 GMT
Hm. I get where Paz is coming from, but I wonder if she's going to offer some sort of solution this time, rather than just be more threatening (or just attempt to carry out her previous vague threat). I predict she won't, she'll just lash out in the same way Red did - vaguely on the money but also incredibly self-absorbed. The Annies will try to fix it either by talking to Kat or helping in some way, making things worse. Scene. |
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Post by ghostiet on Jan 10, 2020 11:06:49 GMT
I can't blame Paz for feeling protective of Kat, but I do think it's a little silly that so few people seem to care that Annie has been taking on problems that are much bigger than her for pretty much this entire time. The problem that Kat is worrying over was caused because Annie went to face Loup basically by herself. She has a ton of problems she has to deal with in her own life, and she's still out there helping the Forest folk and doing her job as a medium. That's been somewhat of a pattern throughout the comic: people rightfully calling out Annie for her shit while also not acknowledging her own trauma/being massive dicks to her/whitewashing their own behavior. Anthony, Red (who is the worst), now Paz. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 10, 2020 11:07:12 GMT
Hm. I get where Paz is coming from, but I wonder if she's going to offer some sort of solution this time, rather than just be more threatening (or just attempt to carry out her previous vague threat). Then again... teenagers. Also, can we assume it's been "a few weeks" between the end of Chapter 70 and now? Yes, "teenager" but also "girlfriend" therefore I think the final disposition of Paz's demands will be that Kat and the Antimonies are not allowed to be friends anymore. Not sure Paz has thought this through to this point but I think she's got to reach there eventually. |
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Post by madjack on Jan 10, 2020 11:35:55 GMT
Horrible thought: If this Kat is in a really bad way, the Kat who's in the alternate universe where Annie (probably) didn't come back at all has got to be a complete mess.
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Post by migrantworker on Jan 10, 2020 11:52:26 GMT
Hm. I get where Paz is coming from, but I wonder if she's going to offer some sort of solution this time, rather than just be more threatening (or just attempt to carry out her previous vague threat). Then again... teenagers. Also, can we assume it's been "a few weeks" between the end of Chapter 70 and now? Yes, "teenager" but also "girlfriend" therefore I think the final disposition of Paz's demands will be that Kat and the Antimonies are not allowed to be friends anymore. Not sure Paz has thought this through to this point but I think she's got to reach there eventually. Hmm, I disagree. I see two positive developments on today's page. First, we are actually getting somewhere. The problem was redefined from a nebulous 'Annies Bad!' to more specific, and at least potentially addressable, 'Annies bother Kat which bothers Paz'. Second, Paz drops her aggression as soon as she is sure that she is taken seriously. In panel 6, she looks almost pleading with Annies to do something, anything. And anyway a 'you or me' ultimatum still allows Kat to choose Annies over Paz, or indeed neither of them. So it can always backfire, whether Paz considered that possibility or not. Seeing that she planned the current confrontation in some detail and arranged for backup, I reckon she either rejected the ultimatum as too risky - or perhaps has already played that card in her earlier confrontation with Kat, and was rebuked. |
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Post by philman on Jan 10, 2020 11:52:51 GMT
Hm. I get where Paz is coming from, but I wonder if she's going to offer some sort of solution this time, rather than just be more threatening (or just attempt to carry out her previous vague threat). Then again... teenagers. Also, can we assume it's been "a few weeks" between the end of Chapter 70 and now? Yes, "teenager" but also "girlfriend" therefore I think the final disposition of Paz's demands will be that Kat and the Antimonies are not allowed to be friends anymore. Not sure Paz has thought this through to this point but I think she's got to reach there eventually. I can see it going that way in terms of general teenage tropes, but I hope it doesn't. Paz is understandably annoyed that Kat is destroying herself trying to fix something, and angry that the Annies are either completely oblivious as to the lengths that their supposed best friend is going to, or worse, doesn't care. I hope it comes down to an ultimatum from Paz for the Annies to actually start taking an interest and caring about what Kat is doing to herself rather than passively ignoring Kat's obvious distress as the Annies have been doing so far. Annie has not been a good friend to Kat recently, and Paz knows it. |
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Post by worldsong on Jan 10, 2020 11:58:27 GMT
Yes, "teenager" but also "girlfriend" therefore I think the final disposition of Paz's demands will be that Kat and the Antimonies are not allowed to be friends anymore. Not sure Paz has thought this through to this point but I think she's got to reach there eventually. Oh dear. Boyfriend/Girlfriend who tries to dictate who you can and can't interact with. That never ends well. Horrible thought: If this Kat is in a really bad way, the Kat who's in the alternate universe where Annie (probably) didn't come back at all has got to be a complete mess. Paz might be happier though. |
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Post by shadow3 on Jan 10, 2020 12:51:37 GMT
It might be worth reminding that neither Annie 1 and Annie 2 are from the timeline that we're seeing. Kat's Annie (AKA original Annie) is still lost somewhere among parallel time streams and that's not something she can get over with the company of two Annies from other timelines.
"You may look, sound, and act like my Annie, but you're not her. I'm sure that I must be deathly worried in the other timelines as well, the other versions of me that you were there for."
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Post by todd on Jan 10, 2020 12:53:21 GMT
She certainly didn't ask to be split into two, didn't give her consent (unless we've got some kind of situation where a version of Annie agreed to it but neither of the currently present Annies are aware of that), and while one could argue that it wouldn't have happened if Annie hadn't gone to talk to Loup there's the argument to be made that when the trickster god is suddenly replaced by a violent alternative it's not your fault when you, having the best track record with the previous trickster god, try to approach the violent variant and said violent trickster god splits you in two. There could be the argument that if Annie hadn't freed Jeanne (or had, say, handled the freeing differently so that the responsible adults at the Court like Anya could have developed a replacement "protection plan" that would have kept the forest-folk out in a more moral fashion), Coyote wouldn't have seen the time as right to goad Ysengrin into killing him. Though Annie didn't know about Coyote's scheme. Maybe it's just easier to blame Annie for these things because Loup is too powerful to go after and Coyote is dead. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 10, 2020 13:03:18 GMT
Yes, "teenager" but also "girlfriend" therefore I think the final disposition of Paz's demands will be that Kat and the Antimonies are not allowed to be friends anymore. Not sure Paz has thought this through to this point but I think she's got to reach there eventually. Oh dear. Boyfriend/Girlfriend who tries to dictate who you can and can't interact with. That never ends well. I'm sure there are irl examples where it leads to a positive outcome but as a reasonably-decent dude most of my friends have been reasonably-decent dudes so I've had to witness a lot of girlfriends and wives friend-shaving their boyfriends and hubbies. Sure, when people go from being singles to couples they don't engage in the same activities anymore so it's natural for them to hang out with single friends less and other couples more. It's also true that different people value different things about friends so it's appropriate to conduct a re-balancing of priorities regarding friends and other stuff when people enter LTRs. That said, too often I've seen gfs and wives pick off a dude's friends and relatives one by one for no reason other than her preferences and with little or no reciprocity with her own circle of friends. It cuts a dude away from his previous support structure and when there are conflicts, which there inevitably are eventually, their circle of friends tends to support her one-sidedly even when that leads to bad outcomes in the long run. |
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Post by madjack on Jan 10, 2020 13:03:33 GMT
It might be worth reminding that neither Annie 1 and Annie 2 are from the timeline that we're seeing. Kat's Annie (AKA original Annie) is still lost somewhere among parallel time streams and that's not something she can get over with the company of two Annies from other timelines. "You may look, sound, and act like my Annie, but you're not her. I'm sure that I must be deathly worried in the other timelines as well, the other versions of me that you were there for." We're not actually sure that this is the case though. Kat may think that's the case and be acting to find this hypothetical Annie number 3 to make sure she's safe, so in that sense what the audience knows is irrelevant, but we're still not actually sure if there are more than 2 Annies. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 10, 2020 13:31:21 GMT
I think Becky would rather be somewhere else. It might be worth reminding that neither Annie 1 and Annie 2 are from the timeline that we're seeing. Kat's Annie (AKA original Annie) is still lost somewhere among parallel time streams and that's not something she can get over with the company of two Annies from other timelines. "You may look, sound, and act like my Annie, but you're not her. I'm sure that I must be deathly worried in the other timelines as well, the other versions of me that you were there for." We're not actually sure that this is the case though. Kat may think that's the case and be acting to find this hypothetical Annie number 3 to make sure she's safe, so in that sense what the audience knows is irrelevant, but we're still not actually sure if there are more than 2 Annies. Thanks, I wanted to say the same thing. "Not being supposed to be here" is not the same thing as "being from another timeline" (my personal theory is still that Annie was supposed to fall to her death from the bridge). Except that the Twannies told her that after her argument with Paz. So, even if she is busy with the robot situation, it can be deduced that what has been occupying her the most is the Annie conundrum, which is clearly evidenced with the last two panels of this page, foreshadowing her current situation and state of mind. Hmmm... fair enough. That said that still falls into the category of things which aren't really Annie's fault. She certainly didn't ask to be split into two, didn't give her consent (unless we've got some kind of situation where a version of Annie agreed to it but neither of the currently present Annies are aware of that), and while one could argue that it wouldn't have happened if Annie hadn't gone to talk to Loup there's the argument to be made that when the trickster god is suddenly replaced by a violent alternative it's not your fault when you, having the best track record with the previous trickster god, try to approach the violent variant and said violent trickster god splits you in two. Correct. And let me add one thing: As far as we know, Annie(s) never asked Kat for help with her situation. |
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Post by alevice on Jan 10, 2020 14:00:29 GMT
I can see it going that way in terms of general teenage tropes, but I hope it doesn't. Paz is understandably annoyed that Kat is destroying herself trying to fix something, and angry that the Annies are either completely oblivious as to the lengths that their supposed best friend is going to, or worse, doesn't care. I hope it comes down to an ultimatum from Paz for the Annies to actually start taking an interest and caring about what Kat is doing to herself rather than passively ignoring Kat's obvious distress as the Annies have been doing so far. Annie has not been a good friend to Kat recently, and Paz knows it. Agreed. I do believe the Crux of the matter for Paz is how much Annie has been neglecting Kat's turmoil. She has even echo chambered herself to just think Paz is just overreacting and she shouldn't worry about how does Kat feel. I am hoping we can finally get to hear Kat's side of the story and might not bee too late. We have seen her in distress already in multiple panels when Annie is not looking |
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Post by Per on Jan 10, 2020 14:03:25 GMT
The problem when you start caring about woes in potential other timelines is that there'll be a few more every day where somebody got electrocuted by a toaster or something.
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Post by worldsong on Jan 10, 2020 14:04:38 GMT
There could be the argument that if Annie hadn't freed Jeanne (or had, say, handled the freeing differently so that the responsible adults at the Court like Anya could have developed a replacement "protection plan" that would have kept the forest-folk out in a more moral fashion), Coyote wouldn't have seen the time as right to goad Ysengrin into killing him. Though Annie didn't know about Coyote's scheme. Maybe it's just easier to blame Annie for these things because Loup is too powerful to go after and Coyote is dead. It's true that Annie could have handled the situation better but I don't think her mistakes are egregious enough to say that the current situation is her fault, especially since with Coyote involved it would be unreasonable to expect anyone to be able to know his plans and how to best deal with them. Blaming Annie is definitely a lot easier. I'm sure there are irl examples where it leads to a positive outcome but as a reasonably-decent dude most of my friends have been reasonably-decent dudes so I've had to witness a lot of girlfriends and wives friend-shaving their boyfriends and hubbies. Sure, when people go from being singles to couples they don't engage in the same activities anymore so it's natural for them to hang out with single friends less and other couples more. It's also true that different people value different things about friends so it's appropriate to conduct a re-balancing of priorities regarding friends and other stuff when people enter LTRs. That said, too often I've seen gfs and wives pick off a dude's friends and relatives one by one for no reason other than her preferences and with little or no reciprocity with her own circle of friends. It cuts a dude away from his previous support structure and when there are conflicts, which there inevitably are eventually, their circle of friends tends to support her one-sidedly even when that leads to bad outcomes in the long run. The only somewhat positive scenario I could imagine is if you have a friend who is toxic and abusive and excommunication really is the only healthy choice, even if it's forced upon you. Otherwise it's always a power move, not only because it means you no longer have friends to back you up if a fight breaks out but also because it means they have complete control over your social life. |
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Post by ctso74 on Jan 10, 2020 14:54:46 GMT
Don't know about the twins, but my response to this would be, "Sorry I haven't been a more attentive friend this week, but I've been a bit busy. You may have noticed. Why did you wait, till you were steaming hot, to come to me?" Why did she wait? Annie's not exactly known for her insight checks, and considering what she's currently dealing with, waiting for her to notice and "do something?..." doesn't make much sense.
Hopefully, they'll go to Kat, cut through the assuming/"she said, she said" fog, and figure things out. I'm not entirely sure what Paz wants them to do. Maybe, Paz doesn't know either.
There may be issues with Kat, but this could also simple be a breakup. Breakups happen in the middle of wars, economic crises, family illness, etc. Why not in the middle of a god's existential crisis?
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caber
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by caber on Jan 10, 2020 17:02:16 GMT
It might be worth reminding that neither Annie 1 and Annie 2 are from the timeline that we're seeing. Kat's Annie (AKA original Annie) is still lost somewhere among parallel time streams and that's not something she can get over with the company of two Annies from other timelines. "You may look, sound, and act like my Annie, but you're not her. I'm sure that I must be deathly worried in the other timelines as well, the other versions of me that you were there for." We're not actually sure that this is the case though. Kat may think that's the case and be acting to find this hypothetical Annie number 3 to make sure she's safe, so in that sense what the audience knows is irrelevant, but we're still not actually sure if there are more than 2 Annies. "Well, miss Antimony, it seems that you have been shifted out of your timeline and brought here." "Well, it seems that neither of them should be here." I mean, Kat's conversation with Clippy seems to heavily lean in that direction. We know that the Annies were shifted from their original timeline(s), and neither of the current Annies are from this timeline. What does that leave? References: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2161www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2162 |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jan 10, 2020 17:12:08 GMT
Annie to Tom: "So, um, can we go back to me negotiating with Khepi? That was easier than dealing with teenage emotions."
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