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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2020 8:04:12 GMT
Paz and some girl pals confront the Antimonies. "They're just there for support." |
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Post by madjack on Jan 8, 2020 8:06:26 GMT
Witnesses aren't a bad idea but.. What the hell is going on? Does she think two Annies is a deliberate... prank? Or something?
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2020 8:07:50 GMT
In case people forgot the blonde is Becky Ground, repeating background character. most recent appearance?[edit]The girl next to Becky in that comic is similar in appearance to the one next to her in today's comic. If they're the same then I'll speculate she's Becky's long-term friend.[/edit] |
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gergle
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Post by gergle on Jan 8, 2020 8:09:18 GMT
I don't know why, but I had thought Paz had matured beyond vague accusations as a conversation starter. I guess it was just me, but I have to say I'm feeling disappointed and depressed at this.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2020 8:11:45 GMT
Witnesses aren't a bad idea but.. What the hell is going on? Does she think two Annies is a deliberate... prank? Or something? Well, one Antimony could probably easily beat up or fry Paz without Paz arranging extensive animal support beforehand. Paz now has numerical superiority. [edit]Antimonies could have just blown off Paz by refusing to have a conversation with her but now they see it's more than just Paz they must take her and her concerns seriously. Or that's the probable reasoning.[/edit] The real question is what Paz said to the other girls to get them to show up here for the confrontation. It may be that she's just been repeating her "Antimonies do things to make Kat upset" which makes PazKat miserable refrain but perhaps she needed to up the ante to make sure she'd get support, in which case there's a more complex gurlpolitic narrative involved. |
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kefka
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Post by kefka on Jan 8, 2020 8:15:01 GMT
So Kat was right and she IS just being stupid. Ok.
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Post by Zox Tomana on Jan 8, 2020 8:15:58 GMT
I... don't understand... wth is up with Paz these days?
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Post by antiyonder on Jan 8, 2020 8:16:24 GMT
I don't know why, but I had thought Paz had matured beyond vague accusations as a conversation starter. I guess it was just me, but I have to say I'm feeling disappointed and depressed at this. Witnesses aren't a bad idea but.. What the hell is going on? Does she think two Annies is a deliberate... prank? Or something? Take it from me, some who doesn't hate Annie (neither of them), keep in mind that when both were thinking on Paz's threat, they ultimately dismissed the idea of Kat trying to hide the possibility of being under pressure because of both Ants and just settled on Paz being unreasonable. A couple of real geniuses indeed:-). "They're just there for support." Yep support of the leg breaking variety. |
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Post by Futurismo on Jan 8, 2020 8:18:09 GMT
Maybe Paz's galpals were just worried about how much this whole situation has been stressing out Paz. For all we know, they're not just there to give Paz a sense of solidarity but also to pull her back if doesn't stay civil. Good friends try to stop you from making mistakes, after all.
Paz has expressed her concerns about Annie stressing out Kat before and Annie completely blew this off. She didn't seriously contemplate the idea that Kat wouldn't tell her that there was a problem. In fairness, Kat herself might not be aware that this is a problem and considers it business as usual just as much as Annie does, in which case Paz should really be having this conversation with both of them-- which may be exactly what happened at the beginning of this chapter; Paz tried to approach this perceived problem from the other side, that is, Kat but was blown off again, this time directly to her face.
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Post by basser on Jan 8, 2020 8:20:14 GMT
I'm delighted by the implication that everyone in their year group is aware there's two of Antimony now and they're all just chill with it. These children live in a world where your magic-fire-shooting classmate being duplicated by a lunatic canine god is a "meh" event.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2020 8:33:43 GMT
I... don't understand... wth is up with Paz these days? Antimony 2 is sucking up all the oxygen from PazKat. "They're just there for support." Yep support of the leg breaking variety. I think they're there for social intimidation more than physical, though evening the playing field was probably a concern ("Come on guys she/they can't just fry ALL of us!"  ) for making the social intimidation more effective, but we don't know what Paz has been telling them. If this were another comic I might wonder if this is a distraction while two more girls sneak up on the Antimonies from behind with baseball bats or golf clubs. Maybe Paz's galpals were just worried about how much this whole situation has been stressing out Paz. For all we know, they're not just there to give Paz a sense of solidarity but also to pull her back if doesn't stay civil. Good friends try to stop you from making mistakes, after all. That would be nice if that happened. They might also be here to instigate just for the giggles. I'm delighted by the implication that everyone in their year group is aware there's two of Antimony now and they're all just chill with it. These children live in a world where your magic-fire-shooting classmate being duplicated by a lunatic canine god is a "meh" event. Are they okay with it? I can't help but wonder if part of Paz's sales pitch was how Antimony is wrecking everything, and now she's even gone and duplicated herself so there will be more chaos and hurt people and broken-up couples. Antimony sorta blames herself for the Court being in the shape it is, it's not really that much of a stretch that Paz would blame her also, particularly if Paz is looking for a list of grievances to pad out her list to make it seem more serious. |
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Post by madjack on Jan 8, 2020 8:39:10 GMT
She didn't seriously contemplate the idea that Kat wouldn't tell her that there was a problem. In fairness, Kat herself might not be aware that this is a problem and considers it business as usual just as much as Annie does, in which case Paz should really be having this conversation with both of them-- which may be exactly what happened at the beginning of this chapter; Paz tried to approach this perceived problem from the other side, that is, Kat but was blown off again, this time directly to her face. I like this as a frame for 'what we're not seeing.' There's got to be more in play than the audience knows, I'm going to be really disappointed if it was just Paz overreacting. |
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Post by antiyonder on Jan 8, 2020 8:51:37 GMT
I like this as a frame for 'what we're not seeing.' There's got to be more in play than the audience knows, I'm going to be really disappointed if it was just Paz overreacting. Well even if Paz handled it wrong Chapters ago, both Annie's ultimately chose not to heed the idea that "strawman/strawgirl has a point". And that's part of her/their recurring issue of not getting that her/their actions have consequences. |
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gergle
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Post by gergle on Jan 8, 2020 8:53:07 GMT
I don't know why, but I had thought Paz had matured beyond vague accusations as a conversation starter. I guess it was just me, but I have to say I'm feeling disappointed and depressed at this. Witnesses aren't a bad idea but.. What the hell is going on? Does she think two Annies is a deliberate... prank? Or something? Take it from me, some who doesn't hate Annie (neither of them), keep in mind that when both were thinking on Paz's threat, they ultimately dismissed the idea of Kat trying to hide the possibility of being under pressure because of both Ants and just settled on Paz being unreasonable. A couple of real geniuses indeed:-). "They're just there for support." Yep support of the leg breaking variety. I'm not saying she is being unreasonable, I'm saying I imagined her character being mature enough to begin a conversation with a valid question, rather than an incredibly vague accusation of unstated nefarious doings i.e. "all of this". I suspect the failing is on my end. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2020 8:55:24 GMT
I like this as a frame for 'what we're not seeing.' There's got to be more in play than the audience knows, I'm going to be really disappointed if it was just Paz overreacting. Well even if Paz handled it wrong Chapters ago, both Annie's ultimately chose not to heed the idea that "strawman/strawgirl has a point". And that's part of her/their recurring issue of not getting that her/their actions have consequences. To be fair, the Antimonies can't just stop being two people. Or undo the attack on the Court and the evacuation. Sure they could have tried to force Kat to spend more time with Paz or something, but given Antimonies' people skills that might have backfired. |
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Post by madjack on Jan 8, 2020 9:07:43 GMT
I like this as a frame for 'what we're not seeing.' There's got to be more in play than the audience knows, I'm going to be really disappointed if it was just Paz overreacting. Well even if Paz handled it wrong Chapters ago, both Annie's ultimately chose not to heed the idea that "strawman/strawgirl has a point". And that's part of her/their recurring issue of not getting that her/their actions have consequences. I'm not denying that Annie is terrible at handling personal problems. It does get a bit hard in her case like others above have said that she can't magically stop being two people and this is made even more difficult because Kat doesn't want to share what the problems are with her either, so she's kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. |
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Post by antiyonder on Jan 8, 2020 9:25:46 GMT
I'm not saying she is being unreasonable, I'm saying I imagined her character being mature enough to begin a conversation with a valid question, rather than an incredibly vague accusation of unstated nefarious doings i.e. "all of this". I suspect the failing is on my end. Yeah she's not causing Kat problems intentionally, but lack of maliciousness doesn't always mean one should be treated with kid gloves. As for Paz being mature, well I suppose we'll have to see how bad thing are for Kat before deciding how much she overreacted, but? While I choose to think that some people screw up or make relatively less mistakes than others, but I have a hard time believing that no one has a moment of stupidity or immaturity. Heck in relation to someone acting out of sort, Kat can be very forgiving of Annie to a fault like being more concerned for her wellbeing even when finding out that she copied her homework a d possibly got her in trouble as well (Tony considering that Kat was in on it). But we've see her having her limits at least when her friend left for the forest one summer without sparing her a thought and acted distant from her. And not seeing her as often as some other characters, I don't see it being odd that she might have her petty/short fused moments Well even if Paz handled it wrong Chapters ago, both Annie's ultimately chose not to heed the idea that "strawman/strawgirl has a point". And that's part of her/their recurring issue of not getting that her/their actions have consequences. To be fair, the Antimonies can't just stop being two people. Or undo the attack on the Court and the evacuation. Sure they could have tried to force Kat to spend more time with Paz or something, but given Antimonies' people skills that might have backfired. Fair enough, but... 1. She could help with any possible work that doesn't require Kat level intellect. Especially since there's two of them. 2. Some speculated that Kat might be bothered with the possibility that there is yet another Annie who is missing from her own world and while the current two might not be able fix that problem, they could show a little concern/sympathy for one of them being out of place. Don't get me wrong, this is no issue with the writing. Definitely think Tom is intentionally intending for them to be in the wrong, especially with that sarcastic assessment of them being a couple of geniuses. |
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Post by rafk on Jan 8, 2020 10:15:45 GMT
I'm delighted by the implication that everyone in their year group is aware there's two of Antimony now and they're all just chill with it. These children live in a world where your magic-fire-shooting classmate being duplicated by a lunatic canine god is a "meh" event. Given the state of the Court after Coyote's alleged death even before Annie 2 showed up, these students really did have bigger things to worry them. |
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Jan 8, 2020 10:49:45 GMT
Annies:"what do you mean with 'all this'?"
Paz gestures vaguely to a computer showing the chapters page of gunnerkrigg.com: "We didn't have Minotaurs and ghosts and visits by all powerful gods and grand theft cruise ship with kidnapping of an entire year's worth of children my robots before you joined...At least not to the same degree."
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 8, 2020 11:23:14 GMT
Maybe Paz's galpals were just worried about how much this whole situation has been stressing out Paz. For all we know, they're not just there to give Paz a sense of solidarity but also to pull her back if doesn't stay civil. Good friends try to stop you from making mistakes, after all. Paz has expressed her concerns about Annie stressing out Kat before and Annie completely blew this off. She didn't seriously contemplate the idea that Kat wouldn't tell her that there was a problem. In fairness, Kat herself might not be aware that this is a problem and considers it business as usual just as much as Annie does, in which case Paz should really be having this conversation with both of them-- which may be exactly what happened at the beginning of this chapter; Paz tried to approach this perceived problem from the other side, that is, Kat but was blown off again, this time directly to her face. To be fair, Paz immediately followed any expression of concern with a direct threat. I know a lot of people who would simply out of anger refuse to think about whether there was an actual problem behind this action.
Well even if Paz handled it wrong Chapters ago, both Annie's ultimately chose not to heed the idea that "strawman/strawgirl has a point". And that's part of her/their recurring issue of not getting that her/their actions have consequences. To be fair, the Antimonies can't just stop being two people. Or undo the attack on the Court and the evacuation. Sure they could have tried to force Kat to spend more time with Paz or something, but given Antimonies' people skills that might have backfired. I do not recall any indication in the comic that Kat and Paz were lacking time spent together. Now that Annie lives with her father and not with Kat, they should have more time together, actually. If Kat does not spend all that time on crazy inventions and science of course. |
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Post by csj on Jan 8, 2020 12:02:58 GMT
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Post by todd on Jan 8, 2020 12:57:29 GMT
I do think that it would help Paz's case if she was more specific than "all this". At present, the Annies - and the reader - have to guess as to what she means. We don't know whether Paz is talking about their being two Annies, about Annie's tendency to get into trouble (or cause it for everyone else) because of her curiosity and tendency to get involved in things, or something else.
If the latter, then Paz does have a point - most of the troubles afflicting the Court came because Annie goes around investigating the strangeness and then trying to solve it herself rather than going to the grown-ups, telling them, and letting them solve the problem.
(On the other hand, as I've mentioned before, there were a lot of troubles beneath the surface before Annie came along. The Court's engaged in a questionable experiment - apparently simply because it wants to do it - that's endangering the etheric world, and is willing to commit immoral acts to accomplish its goals. The Forest was run by an amoral trickster who was manipulating everyone around him into giving him the opportunity to experience death, without caring about what would happen to the Court and the Forest after he left. Many of the forest-folk hated the humans, wanted to destroy them, and all that hatred and anger was boiling up.
I wonder whether, if Annie had not come to the Court, or if she'd decided from the beginning to mind her own business and simply tell Anya or Jones every time she saw something weird, then let them take care of it, all those troubles would have erupted some other way - and in a much more unpleasant fashion - maybe even something along the lines of the Court inadvertently unleashing a planet-wide cataclysm.)
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Post by Per on Jan 8, 2020 13:45:08 GMT
Annies:"what do you mean with 'all this'?" Paz gestures vaguely to a computer showing the chapters page of gunnerkrigg.com: "We didn't have Minotaurs and ghosts and visits by all powerful gods and grand theft cruise ship with kidnapping of an entire year's worth of children my robots before you joined...At least not to the same degree." "And I was MUCH younger then! Give me back my off-panel childhood! Also this is a LIE I would have KICKED that clown's BUTT" |
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Post by todd on Jan 8, 2020 13:46:30 GMT
To be fair, the Antimonies can't just stop being two people. Or undo the attack on the Court and the evacuation. I think (we're only guessing what Paz is talking about, of course, thanks to her vagueness) that Annie being split into two people - and before that, Loup's attack on the Court - came about from Annie's actions and wouldn't have happened (or at least, not in the same way) if she'd left things alone. |
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Post by csj on Jan 8, 2020 14:33:06 GMT
I'm delighted by the implication that everyone in their year group is aware there's two of Antimony now and they're all just chill with it. These children live in a world where your magic-fire-shooting classmate being duplicated by a lunatic canine god is a "meh" event. I imagine the discourse being; 'Oh, don't worry about it, it's just like being identical twins, or 'siamese twins' that have been recently separated...' hopefully an improvement over being a 'big dumb giant' |
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Post by electricguitarsolo on Jan 8, 2020 15:02:15 GMT
I think it's worth remembering that from the beginning Kat didn't want Annie to meet with Loup, citing the danger of doing so. Not only did Annie ignore those concerns, when things went wrong, she never acknowledged that Kat was right, but on the contrary continued down a path that involves more interactions with Loup even as they go less and less well. I wouldn't be surprised if this conservation is about another case where Annie needs to think through how her recklessness affects people who care about her. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2020 16:31:02 GMT
I do not recall any indication in the comic that Kat and Paz were lacking time spent together. Now that Annie lives with her father and not with Kat, they should have more time together, actually. If Kat does not spend all that time on crazy inventions and science of course. That may indeed be the case but if Paz perceives that she is spending less or not enough time with Kat because Kat keeps working on problems caused (sorta) like Antimonies, she will react as if it is true. She may also be looking for someone to take the blame for her relationship with Kat not being what she wants (whatever that may be) and Antimonies make a convenient blame-sponge (now two-ply for extra blame absorption!). That said, Kat is spending some time working on Antimonies' problems and as the girlfriend Paz may envy any time spent on Antimonies because that could be time spent on Kat. Kat probably is stressing about Antimonies' problems though I am skeptical if the stress is actually rising to levels where it would damage health and relationships by itself. I suspect Paz would prefer Kat be more focused on her than Antimonies whatever else is going on. To be fair, the Antimonies can't just stop being two people. Or undo the attack on the Court and the evacuation. I think (we're only guessing what Paz is talking about, of course, thanks to her vagueness) that Annie being split into two people - and before that, Loup's attack on the Court - came about from Annie's actions and wouldn't have happened (or at least, not in the same way) if she'd left things alone. That would make sense and I have criticized Antimony and other people responsible for Antimony for things Antimony has done/failed to do in the past. Here's the question: What exactly did Paz want Antimony to do or refrain from doing that she didn't? She didn't communicate anything specific and by her choice of approach, timing, and words shut down any conversation. The one thing that Paz has passed judgement on apparently was about the Antimonies getting along, which they have continued to do. I think the test Paz is applying is a nebulous one related in some way to how Paz and Kat interact. If one is going to make ultimatums or threats, which is a rather poor way to interact with people anyway, one can make clear what the conditions exactly are so the recipient can comply. While Paz wants the situation with Kat to improve I think she doesn't know how to get there and as a substitute for a plan of her own Paz is tightening the screws on Antimonies, figuring that if she puts the magical MC 2 under enough stress then they'll do something and things with Paz and Kat will get better. Guessing by the line of questioning and the serious passing-of-judgement outfit that Paz has selected from her wardrobe for this night, the Antimonies have been found guilty already; Paz is asking about their motivations and by extension if they have any excuses... before she announces the sentence. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jan 8, 2020 17:27:02 GMT
I'll admit that when I first read today's comic, I was still thinking about elves and robots and such. In that light, Paz's accusation seems a bit silly. Paz is being a bit too vague here, but she was already giving Annie the evil glare way back here. Since then, a lot has happened which Paz wasn't directly involved with. Kat would've probably had to have been the one to explain, "yeah, so the Annies had to go back into the forest again to talk to the mad amalgam god." In hindsight, it seems likely that Kat and Paz were probably arguing about the Annies here. |
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Post by migrantworker on Jan 8, 2020 17:45:24 GMT
The real question is what Paz said to the other girls to get them to show up here for the confrontation. It may be that she's just been repeating her "Antimonies do things to make Kat upset" which makes PazKat miserable refrain but perhaps she needed to up the ante to make sure she'd get support, in which case there's a more complex gurlpolitic narrative involved. Whatever it was, it was only a partial success. The brunette seems quite angry already, but the blonde looks like she doesn't really want to be there. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2020 18:06:48 GMT
The real question is what Paz said to the other girls to get them to show up here for the confrontation. It may be that she's just been repeating her "Antimonies do things to make Kat upset" which makes PazKat miserable refrain but perhaps she needed to up the ante to make sure she'd get support, in which case there's a more complex gurlpolitic narrative involved. Whatever it was, it was only a partial success. The brunette seems quite angry already, but the blonde looks like she doesn't really want to be there. They're sold enough on the basic idea to show up here and come around the corner on cue, or perhaps Becky's friend is and managed to pull Becky along. Not sure what exactly what they're thinking and not sure that we'll see enough in the comic to find out. It may be something related; Becky may have doubts about Antimonies' guilt but she may also be concerned that Paz isn't prosecuting her case as well as she could... or maybe she's just here to see the show. |
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) for making the social intimidation more effective, but we don't know what Paz has been telling them. If this were another comic I might wonder if this is a distraction while two more girls sneak up on the Antimonies from behind with baseball bats or golf clubs.
