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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 23, 2019 8:06:27 GMT
They probably wouldn't like living in the Court, but it may be better than living in the no-mans land with nothing. It's true that Eglamore did warn her that the creatures in the forest aren't pets. Also: Check out Idra rockin' the new Court-supplied threads in panel #5. |
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Post by csj on Dec 23, 2019 8:13:50 GMT
exposition detected
deploying monologue shields
preparing 'but you don't have a choice' counter-batteries
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Post by merry76 on Dec 23, 2019 8:15:10 GMT
Well, it was obvious that they would prefer to live in the forest, but before the evil meddling girls came and messed it all up. Their true problem is that the forest they would like is currently pretty messed up. Not available because of reconstruction or something.
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Dec 23, 2019 8:19:14 GMT
Well, it was obvious that they would prefer to live in the forest, but before the evil meddling girls came and messed it all up. Their true problem is that the forest they would like is currently pretty messed up. Not available because of reconstruction or something. I'd say due to de-construction. While Idra is rockin' that outfit, I'm surprised she's placed as "siding with the Court". Now that the Anwyn are here, why wouldn't she just return to them? |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 23, 2019 8:25:20 GMT
Is that Idra in human clothes in the fourth panel? I believe it is and I'd say she looks good except she hasn't gotten her hair evened up yet... but that may tell us that not much time has passed. Robo-barber may be out of comission (or if no maybe she refused to see him) but there are probably a lot of people around who could help with a bad cut. While Idra is rockin' that outfit, I'm surprised she's placed as "siding with the Court". Now that the Anwyn are here, why wouldn't she just return to them? While Idra may have just caught a ride back with the Court delegation they may have brought her because she's been in the Court for a while and can dispel some rumors and unfounded concerns. |
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Post by madjack on Dec 23, 2019 8:42:42 GMT
Yeah that's definitely Idra, who's looking snappy. Still no indication who the other guy is, other than an unnamed Court representative of some sort. Perhaps they don't fully trust Smitty to keep Annie reigned in given their friendship?
Another concern is if the tree elves don't want to shift into the Court proper, the shield won't need to be dropped and Kat may be about to implement a solution to a now non-problem of more robots getting headcrabbed.
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Post by Igniz on Dec 23, 2019 9:05:03 GMT
1. Just as the Court authorities, the forest people are blaming and scapegoating the Annies, given that the true, direct responsible is none other than Coyote himself (as well as Ysengrin's hatred), with the Court also having its own part in all of this. Of course, they're an easier target to point a finger at than an unstable, egocentric and power-crazed god.
2. Going by Smitty's words, it seems that "Anwyn" is certainly their family name.
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Post by kayback on Dec 23, 2019 10:00:47 GMT
1. Just as the Court authorities, the forest people are blaming and scapegoating the Annies, given that the true, direct responsible is none other than Coyote himself (as well as Ysengrin's hatred), with the Court also having its own part in all of this. Of course, they're an easier target to point a finger at than an unstable, egocentric and power-crazed god. Yeah woot. More dumping on Anniex2. Going to be a fun read. |
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Post by bedinsis on Dec 23, 2019 10:33:17 GMT
1. Just as the Court authorities, the forest people are blaming and scapegoating the Annies, given that the true, direct responsible is none other than Coyote himself (as well as Ysengrin's hatred), with the Court also having its own part in all of this. Of course, they're an easier target to point a finger at than an unstable, egocentric and power-crazed god. Playing the Devil's advocate: Annie was given the task of being medium largely for her ability to communicate with Coyote and therefore make sure he wouldn't lash out a fury that could knock over Ysengrin or tear down one of the court's buildings. In other words, her ability through diplomacy to constrain Coyote (and Ysengrin). The current predicament? Came about because she made the choice to ask Loup for some tree elves with a task and because she couldn't make him listen he exiled all of them. I hope Annie isn't reading this post, she probably already is thinking along these lines. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 23, 2019 10:46:15 GMT
The question of blame requires a number of things be unpacked... but Khepi's condemnation of Antimony/s is bullshit. The forest dudes could live in the Wood because of a sort of balance. They were tolerated by the more powerful beings (by supplication and/or avoidance where appropriate) and able to keep the less-powerful at bay... a combination of tooth and claw plus bowing and scraping. What Khepi is saying is that the current position of the forest dudes was all or partly caused by Antimony/s not staying in her/their lane which brought unintended consequences, and doing so is probably politically and socially useful for someone in a leadership position. What Khepi is unaware of or conveniently ignoring is that Coyote was (and remains) the prime mover behind all of this. Coyote may be as amoral as a tornado, tidal wave, or landslide but he is intelligent and (probably) rational within his own definition of reason. Antimony may bear a share of responsibility for not preventing bad things from happening as a medium, but she is a medium only because of Coyote. Antimony/s interaction with the various beings in the Wood was actively fostered by Coyote as was the relationship (if any) between the forest dudes and Antimony. It's possible to criticize Anthony for not making sure that Antimony was more closely monitored but in the end even her father was unable to keep Antimony from going to the Wood and interacting with the individuals there because of Coyote. I'm unsure what religious beliefs and superstitions that the forest dudes have (aside from the reasonable certainty that they have to practice some degree of supplication and appeasement along with avoidance of the various supernatural entities else they couldn't exist in the Wood) but Khepi's position as a leader was very probably shaken by the recent(ish) turmoil and is very probably being reinforced by letting the blame rest on Antimony. Sure, Antimony asked "Loup" for forest dudes to help move some wood. Nothing that Antimony did or said necessitated "Loup" kicking all the forest dudes out of the Wood. Maybe he did it on a whim from irritation, maybe he was tired of doing something to keep them from starving all this time, but more likely they would have felt his ire at some point or other just for being humans and this result is better than other possibilities. I'm not sure that Antimony had enough power and authority to have prevented this general course of events no matter what she did or said at any point short of curling up in a fetal position and taking no actions whatsoever starting in ch. 1. I've written a post on what would have happened if Antimony hadn't fallen from the bridge way back when and it would have delayed Coyote's plan but not derailed it. For myself, I think that I'd have been considering moving ever since Coyote appeared and would have been actively planning emergency measures ever since someone's fingerprint appeared on the moon. Not doing so is the equivalent of living on the slopes of a supernatural Mt. Vesuvius without an escape plan.
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Post by migrantworker on Dec 23, 2019 13:36:16 GMT
While Idra is rockin' that outfit, I'm surprised she's placed as "siding with the Court". Now that the Anwyn are here, why wouldn't she just return to them? While Idra may have just caught a ride back with the Court delegation they may have brought her because she's been in the Court for a while and can dispel some rumors and unfounded concerns. That, and: Her kin now lives in deprivation and is dependent on the Court for their most basic needs. She is just as dependent, but has been promised - and apparently, received - more. Why move in with poor relatives, when you can stay where you are in relative comfort? We don't know why she has been away from the village at the time of Loup freezing the time. But she also wasn't among the cool kids. So, is she just a bit of an outsider or more of an outcast? If the latter, then I can see her sticking with the Court just because of not being pushed away. Also, her black eye has healed remarkably quickly. And who is that man in a suit standing next to her? Judging by the viewing angles, it can't be the Court official shown on previous page. |
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Post by todd on Dec 23, 2019 13:45:23 GMT
I do think that, while there's a lot of blame to go around (the Court certainly caused much of the mess - if they hadn't started meddling with the ether, none of this conflict with the Forest would have happened), Coyote bears perhaps the heaviest responsibility. He brought about this catastrophe just because he wanted to have the experience of dying, and his scheme to set it up ensured the tense relations between the Court and the Forest that hurt everybody in both places - all with his presumably taking a tone of "Since I'll be leaving the place, it's not my problem. Why care about what happens to your toys when you're gone? After all, you won't be playing with them any more."
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 23, 2019 13:50:48 GMT
Who is that other guy and whose husband is he? Smitty is the husband of Annie F.? The guy with no visible face is Idra's husband? The green Eglamore is Annie C.'s husband? 1. Just as the Court authorities, the forest people are blaming and scapegoating the Annies, given that the true, direct responsible is none other than Coyote himself (as well as Ysengrin's hatred), with the Court also having its own part in all of this. Of course, they're an easier target to point a finger at than an unstable, egocentric and power-crazed god. Playing the Devil's advocate: Annie was given the task of being medium largely for her ability to communicate with Coyote and therefore make sure he wouldn't lash out a fury that could knock over Ysengrin or tear down one of the court's buildings. In other words, her ability through diplomacy to constrain Coyote (and Ysengrin). The current predicament? Came about because she made the choice to ask Loup for some tree elves with a task and because she couldn't make him listen he exiled all of them. I hope Annie isn't reading this post, she probably already is thinking along these lines. Hopefully she remembers that Ysengrin himself was the Forest medium before her. Imagine what kind of job he would have done in her place. Khepi is being unreasonable AF. The Court admin at least has the excuse of not really knowing Coyote or Ysengrin, but I would expect the Anwyn elder to understand that Coyote instigated all this mess. |
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Post by ctso74 on Dec 23, 2019 14:39:31 GMT
I do think that, while there's a lot of blame to go around (the Court certainly caused much of the mess - if they hadn't started meddling with the ether, none of this conflict with the Forest would have happened), Coyote bears perhaps the heaviest responsibility. He brought about this catastrophe just because he wanted to have the experience of dying, and his scheme to set it up ensured the tense relations between the Court and the Forest that hurt everybody in both places - all with his presumably taking a tone of "Since I'll be leaving the place, it's not my problem. Why care about what happens to your toys when you're gone? After all, you won't be playing with them any more." And if he does return(because I still can't wrap my head around him being truly gone), his "toys" will be in chaotic disarray, which would probably be awesome to him. This all could reinforce the "Thank goodness Coyote's in charge" sentiment. If the Anwyn integrate more with the Court, or form a middle blended society between the Forest and Court, that might benefit some Coyote plan, as well. The Annan Settlement? Coyote certain has the large majority of the blame in this, but I can at least see where Khepi's coming from. Whether it's true or not, some will think that as the Forest Medium, Annie should have noticed something and warned others. Coyote is as unpredictable and as powerful as a force of nature, but someone living next to a volcano might be blamed, for not warning others about strange rumbling and more toxic gas. |
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 23, 2019 15:29:44 GMT
Khepi claims Annie "meddled" with Coyote. But as his medium she could hardly stay away all the time...and most of the time, she was summoned by him.
Also, since he was appointed Court medium, Andrew had come with Annie to the Forest on many occasions. Why does nobody think of blaming him? The Anwyn should at least have heard of what had happened during his first visit. That probably was a lot more "meddlin'" with the Forest than Annie ever did..
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Post by Gemini Jim on Dec 23, 2019 18:10:24 GMT
Well, I'm sure the conversation is far from being over. There'll probably be a couple of pages of negotiation, talking, arguing and compromise.
(Since Christmas falls on a Wednesday, will the story wait until Friday?)
Is Khepi being unreasonable? Yes. But people - and I suspect this includes elves - aren't known for being reasonable in harsh situations.
From her point of view, the elves got kicked out of the forest for no apparent reason. They hadn't done anything wrong to deserve it.
So no, it won't be as easy as "we'll let you live in the Court, and you'll like it. You can even run your own casinos."
Annie is going to have to use all of her diplomacy skills here.
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caber
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by caber on Dec 23, 2019 18:56:11 GMT
1. Just as the Court authorities, the forest people are blaming and scapegoating the Annies, given that the true, direct responsible is none other than Coyote himself (as well as Ysengrin's hatred), with the Court also having its own part in all of this. Of course, they're an easier target to point a finger at than an unstable, egocentric and power-crazed god. Playing the Devil's advocate: Annie was given the task of being medium largely for her ability to communicate with Coyote and therefore make sure he wouldn't lash out a fury that could knock over Ysengrin or tear down one of the court's buildings. In other words, her ability through diplomacy to constrain Coyote (and Ysengrin). The current predicament? Came about because she made the choice to ask Loup for some tree elves with a task and because she couldn't make him listen he exiled all of them. I hope Annie isn't reading this post, she probably already is thinking along these lines. Coyote himself offered her the position of Forest Medium; the court Admin tried to stop her from being involved. Diplomatic constraints don't seem to have figured in: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1157 |
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Post by DonDueed on Dec 23, 2019 20:00:20 GMT
And who is that man in a suit standing next to her? Judging by the viewing angles, it can't be the Court official shown on previous page. They come in pairs. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Dec 23, 2019 20:32:06 GMT
Just a quick reminder that, to most people who are not Annie, Coyote isn't really a person, he's a LITERAL GOD. Whenever he does something, it is LITERALLY AN ACT OF GOD. Today's page really just confirms my suspicion that Forest people tend to just think of Coyote as a force of nature (which is basically correct) which is at various times beneficial or dangerous - mostly just dangerous. Frankly, I think the mere concept of "blaming" Coyote or Ysengrin for...well, anything...would be pretty hard for them to wrap their head around. To the tree elves, blaming Coyote for exiling them is probably like blaming the sun for giving you sunburn, or gravity for making you fall off a cliff. Technically, it's not wrong, but it's kind of pointless because the real responsibility obviously falls on you for not putting on sunscreen or watching where you're going. The officials of the Court actually has a very similar understanding of Coyote's culpability in any given situation. From their perspective, Coyote isn't a god but just a very powerful ANIMAL, with very specific habits and weaknesses they have to manipulate in order to make sure he doesn't go crazy and ruin everything. So again, when Coyote does something, the Court is upset but never really see it as his FAULT, any more than you blame a lion for attacking you after you step on its tail; the blame lies in you for not handling the animal well enough, or sometimes maybe it could be seen as bad luck when something outside your control provokes the animal.
The funny thing is, both of those perspectives are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, int heir own way. Coyote IS a god, AND a wild animal...but he's also a person, and Annie is one of the only people in the world who actually understands that.
So please, enough with the hating on Khepi & the Anwyn. They have all the reason in the world to blame Annie here, but Khepi is still being nice here and respects Annie enough to know that she's already regretting her mistakes, so she doesn't scold her and goes right into a practical discussion of what to do next.
The Court also have all the reason in the world to blame Annie here, but you can still hate on them, just because the Court kind of sucks in general.
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 23, 2019 20:54:24 GMT
(Since Christmas falls on a Wednesday, will the story wait until Friday?) No, the comic updates regularly on all holidays, including Christmas (Tom is always at least one chapter ahead anyway, so no reason to delay the comic while taking his holiday break). |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Dec 23, 2019 23:09:42 GMT
Annie is going to have to use all of her diplomacy skills here. Her what now? |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 24, 2019 1:04:47 GMT
Also, her black eye has healed remarkably quickly. About that: There's been a couple continuity breaks since we've last seen Idra. Idra's black eye looked pretty bad so it was probably at the upper end of the typical range for one to heal... The internets inform me that "typical" as few as five days or as many as three weeks. However, if Idra is hanging around people in the Court sooner or later someone will offer to help with her hair even if (or possibly because) she is being a huge standoff-ish jerk. I'd figure that before a month American colleagues would certainly bring it up, so maybe four or five weeks max for Brits. Elf magic or healing factor is a possibility, though, as is advanced Court medicine and hiding a shiner with cosmetics... So probably more than five days but not more than three weeks is my rough guesstimate of the amount of time that has passed from comic #2207 to #2242. That range would give her enough time to be more-or-less comfortable wearing new clothes, methinks. |
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Post by madjack on Dec 24, 2019 2:57:44 GMT
Random thought: Perhaps Khepi's tune will change when she gets told Coyote is dead and now someone effectively as unstable and dangerous as Ysengrin is in charge? I can see them wanting to get the hell under the shield ASAP given how poorly they regard Ys.
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Post by Runningflame on Dec 24, 2019 6:07:22 GMT
(Since Christmas falls on a Wednesday, will the story wait until Friday?) No, the comic updates regularly on all holidays, including Christmas (Tom is always at least one chapter ahead anyway, so no reason to delay the comic while taking his holiday break). |
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Post by migrantworker on Dec 24, 2019 10:13:28 GMT
Also, her black eye has healed remarkably quickly. About that: There's been a couple continuity breaks since we've last seen Idra. Idra's black eye looked pretty bad so it was probably at the upper end of the typical range for one to heal... The internets inform me that "typical" as few as five days or as many as three weeks. However, if Idra is hanging around people in the Court sooner or later someone will offer to help with her hair even if (or possibly because) she is being a huge standoff-ish jerk. I'd figure that before a month American colleagues would certainly bring it up, so maybe four or five weeks max for Brits. Elf magic or healing factor is a possibility, though, as is advanced Court medicine and hiding a shiner with cosmetics... So probably more than five days but not more than three weeks is my rough guesstimate of the amount of time that has passed from comic #2207 to #2242. That range would give her enough time to be more-or-less comfortable wearing new clothes, methinks. Hmm, I was under an impression that much less time passed since Idra's appearance: the goose bone was delivered to Loup as soon as possible 'cos he's so impatient, and then the elves could not be ignored for long either (and apparently weren't). Three days, maybe? |
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Post by kayback on Dec 26, 2019 14:17:54 GMT
Just a quick reminder that, to most people who are not Annie, Coyote isn't really a person, he's a LITERAL GOD. Whenever he does something, it is LITERALLY AN ACT OF GOD. Today's page really just confirms my suspicion that Forest people tend to just think of Coyote as a force of nature (which is basically correct) which is at various times beneficial or dangerous - mostly just dangerous. Frankly, I think the mere concept of "blaming" Coyote or Ysengrin for...well, anything...would be pretty hard for them to wrap their head around. To the tree elves, blaming Coyote for exiling them is probably like blaming the sun for giving you sunburn, or gravity for making you fall off a cliff. Technically, it's not wrong, but it's kind of pointless because the real responsibility obviously falls on you for not putting on sunscreen or watching where you're going. The officials of the Court actually has a very similar understanding of Coyote's culpability in any given situation. From their perspective, Coyote isn't a god but just a very powerful ANIMAL, with very specific habits and weaknesses they have to manipulate in order to make sure he doesn't go crazy and ruin everything. So again, when Coyote does something, the Court is upset but never really see it as his FAULT, any more than you blame a lion for attacking you after you step on its tail; the blame lies in you for not handling the animal well enough, or sometimes maybe it could be seen as bad luck when something outside your control provokes the animal. The funny thing is, both of those perspectives are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, int heir own way. Coyote IS a god, AND a wild animal...but he's also a person, and Annie is one of the only people in the world who actually understands that. So please, enough with the hating on Khepi & the Anwyn. They have all the reason in the world to blame Annie here, but Khepi is still being nice here and respects Annie enough to know that she's already regretting her mistakes, so she doesn't scold her and goes right into a practical discussion of what to do next. The Court also have all the reason in the world to blame Annie here, but you can still hate on them, just because the Court kind of sucks in general.
I disagree. If your god is so fickle that the attention of a teenage girl can hess him up, he isn't a god. This is the typical religious bent of "if something good happens, God did it. If something bad happens you displeased god." if god is responsible for the good he's responsible for the bad. |
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