[2235] Dead Horse

[Timberwere]

Rey's displeasure is palpable in the first panel.

[madjack]

Tom quietly confirming Rey was standing next to Kat (and her computer) the whole time.

Aside note, Kat seems to be taking the term 'virtual terminal' to entirely new heights.

[Sky Schemer]

I sure hope we are getting to some resolution on Loup. While I appreciate that there can be such things as unlikable characters, there is a point where a character is so one-dimensionally craptastic that it kills the joy. And I feel like joy is on life support these days.

[drdave]

Kat is really starting to look like her Mom

[migrantworker]

Nice to see Renard not being above poking fun at Annie.

[pyradonis]

Laughing Reynardine is cute!

Dec 4, 2019 8:05:12 GMT madjack said:

Tom quietly confirming Rey was standing next to Kat (and her computer) the whole time.

Aside note, Kat seems to be taking the term 'virtual terminal' to entirely new heights.

That was my first thought as well. Kat was there, and it is most likely Loup saw her, but...it could also have been her crazy computer.

What I do not understand: Why is Kat stressing the word "were" in the third panel?

[Eily]

Dec 4, 2019 8:06:22 GMT Sky Schemer said:

I sure hope we are getting to some resolution on Loup. While I appreciate that there can be such things as unlikable characters, there is a point where a character is so one-dimensionally craptastic that it kills the joy. And I feel like joy is on life support these days.

I don't hate Loup 100% personally. I sure don't like him now, and I'd really like to have Ysengrin back, but on the other hand I do acknowledge the fact that he has just begun to live.
Even if he was mature, being told that you're just a pawn in your predecessor's big plan, and that you'll die the moment your part is over has to be disturbing. I also see where the Annies are coming from, but right after she heard Coyote tell him he was going to die, maybe telling him it's his own fault if he's in this situation wasn't the brightest idea.
The problem with him isn't so much who he is, because he hasn't really had the time to grow into that yet, it's that he was thrown into this situation with basically limitless powers, very high responsibility, no guidance whatsoever, and really determined and powerful opponents.

I'm actually willing to start liking him the minute he starts to show some remorse, and tries to work on fixing the errors that aren't entirely his own.

Edit : and thanks Rey for acknowledging that joking about too much of Annie can hurt her feelings 

[Timberwere]

Dec 4, 2019 9:07:51 GMT pyradonis said:

Laughing Reynardine is cute!

Dec 4, 2019 8:05:12 GMT madjack said:

Tom quietly confirming Rey was standing next to Kat (and her computer) the whole time.

Aside note, Kat seems to be taking the term 'virtual terminal' to entirely new heights.

What I do not understand: Why is Kat stressing the word "were" in the third panel?

I read this as a fairly harmless "just imagine what if", nothing sinister.

[gpvos]

With the number of tree elves they have to manage now, they would have *wished* there were four Annies.

[Per]

Dec 4, 2019 9:30:23 GMT Timberwere said:

Dec 4, 2019 9:07:51 GMT pyradonis said:

What I do not understand: Why is Kat stressing the word "were" in the third panel?

I read this as a fairly harmless "just imagine what if", nothing sinister.

Yeah, normal subjunctive mood used for a hypothetical.

[pyradonis]

Dec 4, 2019 10:07:08 GMT Per said:

Dec 4, 2019 9:30:23 GMT Timberwere said:

I read this as a fairly harmless "just imagine what if", nothing sinister.

Yeah, normal subjunctive mood used for a hypothetical.

It just read a little odd to me. I would have stressed the word "four". But I am not a native English speaker.

[Druplesnubb]

I wish panel four Reynardine wasn't cut off halfway through, I might have used him as my new avatar otherwise.

[csj]

the more I see that shirt the more I wonder if Kat has ever drifted... in a go-kart of course

[Per]

Dec 4, 2019 10:26:01 GMT pyradonis said:

It just read a little odd to me. I would have stressed the word "four".

Doing that is what this calls back to.

[xoft]

Druplesnubb :

A bit of amateur rotating and mirroring later, here you go :)

[coastal]

Dec 4, 2019 10:26:01 GMT pyradonis said:

To clarify slightly what other readers pointed out, it's stressed that way because they're referring back to a hypothetical situation that's already been mentioned. Every language has different intonation patterns! It's cool. Rest assured that this does read totally naturally to native English speakers, and I'm glad that you pointed this out, because my eyes missed the bold font, and didn't give the sentence the correct intonation until after reading your comment. : )

[migrantworker]

Dec 4, 2019 9:25:08 GMT Eily said:

Dec 4, 2019 8:06:22 GMT Sky Schemer said:

I sure hope we are getting to some resolution on Loup. While I appreciate that there can be such things as unlikable characters, there is a point where a character is so one-dimensionally craptastic that it kills the joy. And I feel like joy is on life support these days.

I don't hate Loup 100% personally. I sure don't like him now, and I'd really like to have Ysengrin back, but on the other hand I do acknowledge the fact that he has just begun to live.
Even if he was mature, being told that you're just a pawn in your predecessor's big plan, and that you'll die the moment your part is over has to be disturbing. I also see where the Annies are coming from, but right after she heard Coyote tell him he was going to die, maybe telling him it's his own fault if he's in this situation wasn't the brightest idea.
The problem with him isn't so much who he is, because he hasn't really had the time to grow into that yet, it's that he was thrown into this situation with basically limitless powers, very high responsibility, no guidance whatsoever, and really determined and powerful opponents.

I'm actually willing to start liking him the minute he starts to show some remorse, and tries to work on fixing the errors that aren't entirely his own.

I agree. There's a lot of scope for Loup to grow - if he manages to stay alive. Even Coyote agrees. Kicking the tree folk may be just one of those moments.

[imaginaryfriend]

What I found interesting (aside from Kat being near Renard when he met "Loup") was that Kat and Ren are referring to Antimony singular in panel #2 but after feedback/buzzkill from the link Ren uses a plural in the last panel.

[gergle]

Dec 4, 2019 8:06:22 GMT Sky Schemer said:

I sure hope we are getting to some resolution on Loup. While I appreciate that there can be such things as unlikable characters, there is a point where a character is so one-dimensionally craptastic that it kills the joy. And I feel like joy is on life support these days.

Agreed. I'm usually quite happy to think "oh, there will be a GK update"! Now it's eh. I sometimes go several days without reading it, then I just skim it. "Oh, him again/still, whatever"

[Gemini Jim]

Figuratively speaking, panels three and four are us.





And so begins the long wait for the next chapter to actually start (beyond just a title page).

[Runningflame]

What's that, Rey? You found it unpleasant?

[Sky Schemer]

Dec 4, 2019 9:25:08 GMT Eily said:

Dec 4, 2019 8:06:22 GMT Sky Schemer said:

I sure hope we are getting to some resolution on Loup. While I appreciate that there can be such things as unlikable characters, there is a point where a character is so one-dimensionally craptastic that it kills the joy. And I feel like joy is on life support these days.

I don't hate Loup 100% personally. I sure don't like him now, and I'd really like to have Ysengrin back, but on the other hand I do acknowledge the fact that he has just begun to live.    

My issue is that I just don't care and that feeling is spreading to the rest of the comic because, for the past few chapters, nearly everything has been about Loup. Loup hangs over everything the way Coyote did, only Coyote was fun and interesting.

Loup is worse than an unlikable character. Panels with Loup suck the likability from the panels around them. He's a black hole of unlikable from which nothing likable escapes.

[warrl]

And he isn't even a good villain, because his motives are incomprehensible.

[imaginaryfriend]

I would argue that the motivations of "Loup" are easy to understand but shallow af.

[Sky Schemer]

Here's how I see it. Coyote had complex motivations that we got very little insight into, but his personality was revealed to us in small pieces over the length of the comic. We knew he had a relationship with the Court, was on a first-name (or given-name) basis with some of them, and over time we learned he is manipulating things behind the scenes, or overtly, towards some purpose. What is the purpose? Don't know. But that's OK because it was building suspense and not just relying on action to create a mystery. You knew something was coming, and it was all organic so that when there was a reveal you didn't feel cheated. He also had genuine feelings for characters that he could express and explain, and that make sense to us. So it felt real and genuine.

Loup, on the other hand, is all action and no suspense. Obviously, the shock of how he was created was intended to be that way, and that is totally cool. The attack on the Court? Didn't see it coming, and it shifted the status quo. The problem is...he's made of the worst aspects of Coyote and Ysengrin. He is all action and no suspense. He is all emotion and no explanation. He is all demands and privilege that hasn't been earned. He is an impulsive bully with no self control and nearly limitless powers. And that makes him dull and boring. Except for the "I love Annie" business, which is just gross, in a rapey, douchebag male that calls other guys "bro" kind of way. And I am sick of it.

[migrantworker]

Dec 5, 2019 7:33:29 GMT Sky Schemer said:

Here's how I see it. Coyote had complex motivations that we got very little insight into, but his personality was revealed to us in small pieces over the length of the comic. We knew he had a relationship with the Court, was on a first-name (or given-name) basis with some of them, and over time we learned he is manipulating things behind the scenes, or overtly, towards some purpose. What is the purpose? Don't know. But that's OK because it was building suspense and not just relying on action to create a mystery. You knew something was coming, and it was all organic so that when there was a reveal you didn't feel cheated. He also had genuine feelings for characters that he could express and explain, and that make sense to us. So it felt real and genuine.

Loup, on the other hand, is all action and no suspense. Obviously, the shock of how he was created was intended to be that way, and that is totally cool. The attack on the Court? Didn't see it coming, and it shifted the status quo. The problem is...he's made of the worst aspects of Coyote and Ysengrin. He is all action and no suspense. He is all emotion and no explanation. He is all demands and privilege that hasn't been earned. He is an impulsive bully with no self control and nearly limitless powers. And that makes him dull and boring. Except for the "I love Annie" business, which is just gross, in a rapey, douchebag male that calls other guys "bro" kind of way. And I am sick of it.

You know, that reminds me of rock stars, of all things: thrust into fame before maturing, lacking the skills to handle the possibilities opening to them all of a sudden. Some pull through it and go on to stay famous for decades - say Rolling Stones, who are now well into their 70s. You can call them a Coyote of music industry. And some others fall into the habits of booze, drugs and hotel room trashing, and when they choke to death on their own vomit at the ripe old age of 27 your initial reaction is "Yeah, I saw that coming, good riddance to them". We might as well call them Loups of the music industry.

But:

The Rolling Stones were exactly the same in their youth. Not all of them made it. But we were not around yet to witness it. For us, they just have been famous since forever. And,
In between all the boozing, drugging and trashing, those who died young did create some outstanding pieces of music, which are remembered and admired to this day. And while they did have some crappy tendencies built into their personalities from the beginning (a state also known as "being human"), those could only flourish because life handed to them a platter filled with more goodies than they could ever chew through.

So this makes me much more patient with Loup's shenaningans. Your mileage may vary.

[philman]

Dec 4, 2019 17:28:14 GMT gergle said:

Dec 4, 2019 8:06:22 GMT Sky Schemer said:

I sure hope we are getting to some resolution on Loup. While I appreciate that there can be such things as unlikable characters, there is a point where a character is so one-dimensionally craptastic that it kills the joy. And I feel like joy is on life support these days.

Agreed. I'm usually quite happy to think "oh, there will be a GK update"! Now it's eh. I sometimes go several days without reading it, then I just skim it. "Oh, him again/still, whatever"

To be honest I have always done that with forest chapters, the machinations of the court have always been more interesting to me than the tall tales of Coyote, and now Loup. But one cannot exist properly without the other!

[somebunny]

Seems like some people on the forum can really relate to Rey in panel 1.

[pyradonis]

Dec 5, 2019 7:33:29 GMT Sky Schemer said:

Here's how I see it. Coyote had complex motivations that we got very little insight into, but his personality was revealed to us in small pieces over the length of the comic. We knew he had a relationship with the Court, was on a first-name (or given-name) basis with some of them, and over time we learned he is manipulating things behind the scenes, or overtly, towards some purpose. What is the purpose? Don't know. But that's OK because it was building suspense and not just relying on action to create a mystery. You knew something was coming, and it was all organic so that when there was a reveal you didn't feel cheated. He also had genuine feelings for characters that he could express and explain, and that make sense to us. So it felt real and genuine.

Loup, on the other hand, is all action and no suspense. Obviously, the shock of how he was created was intended to be that way, and that is totally cool. The attack on the Court? Didn't see it coming, and it shifted the status quo. The problem is...he's made of the worst aspects of Coyote and Ysengrin. He is all action and no suspense. He is all emotion and no explanation. He is all demands and privilege that hasn't been earned. He is an impulsive bully with no self control and nearly limitless powers. And that makes him dull and boring. Except for the "I love Annie" business, which is just gross, in a rapey, douchebag male that calls other guys "bro" kind of way. And I am sick of it.

I see it very differently. Coyote's plan is still unfolding. Loup is a gamepiece, not a player. He is being manipulated by Coyote, like so many other characters. Coyote's influence has just become less obvious now that he is dead and has very few appearances.

And yes, Loup's actions have influenced most of the chapters since his creation. But, for example, having Annie doubled also gave new opportunities as in creating an introspective of Annie through her interaction with...well, herself.

[Sky Schemer]

Dec 6, 2019 19:39:42 GMT pyradonis said:

I see it very differently. Coyote's plan is still unfolding. Loup is a gamepiece, not a player. He is being manipulated by Coyote, like so many other characters. Coyote's influence has just become less obvious now that he is dead and has very few appearances.

I acknowledge that all of that is true. But for me the core problem is that the story has become a drag and I am not enjoying it. The destination is not a motivator if the journey sucks.