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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 2, 2019 8:13:10 GMT
"Loup" kicks all the "tree elves" out of the Wood. And that's totally not something that Ysengrin would do. |
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Post by madjack on Dec 2, 2019 8:21:35 GMT
Is that Kamlen on the right in the first panel?
Anyway it's a good thing the Annies are experienced negotiators because those people are now stuck with no food, shelter and probably no access through the shield.
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Post by bicarbonat on Dec 2, 2019 8:31:47 GMT
I truly don't see a scenario in which no one is pissed.
Genuine tantrums (not the farces that Coyote loved) executed by persons with real power are scary, and this is why. Who knows if the tree elves would've run afoul of Loup eventually (maybe for grumbling about poor infrastructure, à la The Lion King), but this way is so foul - for the tree elves and for the girls.
It's especially wrenching to think that Carver might face the people who opened their home to her, only for her to seemingly play a part in the dissolution of that home life and the beginning of a Holy Grail quest conscription with no end date.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 2, 2019 8:34:10 GMT
This is actually a boon for the Court. They were always short on manpower and as of recently they've had some big doofy trees they can't get rid of. There's plenty of housing and presumably food shouldn't be a problem once they get the elves to accept British institutional cooking modern cuisine. Is that Kamlen on the right in the first panel? Maybe. Hair looks about right, maybe a teeny bit shorter. Doesn't matter, though, since he should be there somewhere anyway. Supposedly this is all of them. |
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Post by madjack on Dec 2, 2019 8:38:02 GMT
This is actually a boon for the Court. They were always short on manpower and as of recently they've had some big doofy trees they can't get rid of. There's plenty of housing and presumably food shouldn't be a problem once they get the elves to accept British institutional cooking modern cuisine. It'd be a boon if they could get along, which remains to be seen. The resentment from both sides being forced into this position will be very real, and Annie will be the target for that anger whether it's justified or not. |
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Post by merry76 on Dec 2, 2019 8:38:38 GMT
Also, what is the point of the forest, if no one is living there anymore? Afterall, they are natives in the forest, its not like Loup is kicking out people that do not belong there. To steal Carl Sagans Quote: "They are a way for the forest to know itself". Ok, I botched this a bit, but it still stands: if there are no denizens in the forest, its just... a bunch of trees. And temporal distortion, because Loup cant handle it properly.
Yes there are animals and weird fairies - if they are still welcome, that is. Maybe they are next to be deported.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 2, 2019 9:09:38 GMT
This is actually a boon for the Court. They were always short on manpower and as of recently they've had some big doofy trees they can't get rid of. There's plenty of housing and presumably food shouldn't be a problem once they get the elves to accept British institutional cooking modern cuisine. It'd be a boon if they could get along, which remains to be seen. The resentment from both sides being forced into this position will be very real, and Annie will be the target for that anger whether it's justified or not. They've got a mutual enemy to blame, plus the forest dudes are coming as refugees. I'm sure some won't like it and will keep travelling out of the Court to some other mystic forest place of elves (whether the Court allows it or not) but there's plenty of space that can be reclaimed now. They won't be able to live like hunter-gatherers but they can have similar tree-homes and farms with livestock. |
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Post by csj on Dec 2, 2019 10:14:41 GMT
Politics warning Loup sounds well-versed in middle-eastern foreign policy
I am both intrigued and concerned how this arc will go given current *ahem* trends in a certain ongoing election |
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Post by migrantworker on Dec 2, 2019 10:20:02 GMT
It'd be a boon if they could get along, which remains to be seen. The resentment from both sides being forced into this position will be very real, and Annie will be the target for that anger whether it's justified or not. They've got a mutual enemy to blame, plus the forest dudes are coming as refugees. I'm sure some won't like it and will keep travelling out of the Court to some other mystic forest place of elves (whether the Court allows it or not) but there's plenty of space that can be reclaimed now. They won't be able to live like hunter-gatherers but they can have similar tree-homes and farms with livestock. There are several practical problems with this though. Firstly, reclaimed space may easily become a reservation which we have to earn first in the elves' minds. Effectively, a pie in the sky promise on the Court's part, with all the costs assigned to the refugees. A better deal than being stuck on a meadow just outside the walls to be sure, but a major source of resentment nevertheless (and so a great plot driver!). Secondly, while being reclaimed the space will continue to effectively be a front line - the roots will continue to act as an access route for forest creatures with an axe to grind. The tree folk would then be in an excellent position to receive the brunt of the attacks, while also being at their most vulnerable. Another cost for them to bear, with the Court reaping most of the benefit, at least initially. Thirdly, once the space is reclaimed the elves will lose their reason for being there. That may not become a concern until much later, but the leaders on both sides will surely already have it in mind - and try to position themselves accordingly. Except that right now, the Court seems to be in a much more powerful position in any negotiations: it may have suffered substantial damage, but the elves literally have nothing but the clothes on their backs. Lastly, assuming all those problems are somehow overcome, then things will change. On both sides. Potentially in ways which the respective leaders wind unpalatable, or even unacceptable. (Say, can tree folk and humans interbreed? It used to be a big issue, and I'm not quite sure only to one jealous man.) So all in all, it would be a very raw deal for the tree folk, even if it also happens to be the best option available to them at this very moment. And the Court may be unwilling anyway. Unless... In a perfect world, the Court would gladly take the tree folk in. The existing patrol teams will be placed under some sort of joint command to help protect the new settlement, and necessities of life provided. An agreement on transferring control to the elves once their situation is stable will be, err, agreed, in advance. An understanding will be made for a future cooperation, details to be fleshed out once sufficient trust is established. Hmm, a negotiator familiar with both sides could come handy. Ideally two of them, one for the Court and another for the tree folk. Better still if the negotiators have a quick, reliable and secure communication channel to use at will. Rings any bells? |
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 2, 2019 11:46:36 GMT
Lots of housing available in the Court does not mean many Court residents won't see the new arrivals as an invasion force/possible spies/sleeper agents/disruptive elements unwilling to integrate themselves/etc. instead of refugees. Happens all the time.
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Post by merry76 on Dec 2, 2019 12:32:00 GMT
I really hope we can avoid getting real world politics into the comic. The court has itself enough hidden agendas and politicking going on, which in itself is more interesting than what happens IRL.
I'd rather not have another site I enjoy repeating "orange man bad" or "what about the uygurs". I think that there is plenty of that already, and usually doesnt age very well. And Gunnerkrigg Court Arcs usually age pretty well, especially if we get a clap back to some older arc  |
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Post by todd on Dec 2, 2019 12:59:53 GMT
I don't think we need to bring up real-world politics to see the potential problems. The exiled elves are from the forest which has given the Court such trouble; the Court's naturally going to be uneasy about their presence, even if they are refugees. And it's looked down on the forest-folk in general as mere animals and savages (one reason why negotiations between the Court and the Forest haven't gone well).
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Post by puntino on Dec 2, 2019 12:59:56 GMT
I really hope we can avoid getting real world politics into the comic. The court has itself enough hidden agendas and politicking going on, which in itself is more interesting than what happens IRL.
I'd rather not have another site I enjoy repeating "orange man bad" or "what about the uygurs". I think that there is plenty of that already, and usually doesnt age very well. And Gunnerkrigg Court Arcs usually age pretty well, especially if we get a clap back to some older arc You sorta just did it, by using those terms. In any way, I hope we stay clear of these discussions too. Onto the comic itself, I find it hard that the Court would accept the elves in such a situation. If they kept an eye on Annie for a while after she came back, imagine what will be their behavior towards forest residents. |
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Post by Eily on Dec 2, 2019 14:27:42 GMT
Ah yes, I was so right to think Loup might have been playing nice despite everything, by providing the help the Annies were asking for.
Yup, playing nice. Really spot on ...
Anyway, weren't they all frozen before? If so, they probably don't realize it but they technically just got freed. Maybe Idra can help confirm that version of the story (no way they would believe the Court). Also, even though Loup is trying to put the blame on the Annies, if they were indeed frozen maybe it required an active participation from Loup to keep them in that state, and they probably were a "living" reminder of his shortcomings, so Loup might be all too happy to get rid of them.
Edit: Anyone else thinks the elf in the middle of the last panel looks like a green Eglamore?
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Post by ctso74 on Dec 2, 2019 14:55:18 GMT
Whether real politics are used as an analogy or not, this could get real ugly.
A lot of times, it's not institutions that push things past a tipping point, but rather the common nature of mankind. If good people open up to the new arrivals, any cutting rules will be blunted. However, if the majority of Court dwellers feel unsettled or hostile, then those same rules can be honed to an ugly razor. Let's hope the better nature of people shines through.
On the brighter side of things, they don't have to walk far. No army forcing them to leave the elderly behind to starve on the trail side. Weather seems nice. So no Trail of Tears for them. That's a definite plus... Loup was correct about showing them "bitter".
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 2, 2019 15:18:06 GMT
Anyway it's a good thing the Annies are experienced negotiators because …they'll need to talk fast. those people are now stuck with no food, shelter and probably no access through the shield. Elves probably can settle in Marcia's territory. And surely will prefer that do damaged concrete boxes. As to getting from here to there, tunnels. I think that there is plenty of that already, and usually doesnt age very well. And Gunnerkrigg Court Arcs usually age pretty well, especially if we get a clap back to some older arc There's a simple heuristic for this. Firstly, reclaimed space may easily become a reservation which we have to earn first in the elves' minds. Effectively, a pie in the sky promise on the Court's part, with all the costs assigned to the refugees. A better deal than being stuck on a meadow just outside the walls to be sure, but a major source of resentment nevertheless (and so a great plot driver!). Secondly, while being reclaimed the space will continue to effectively be a front line - the roots will continue to act as an access route for forest creatures with an axe to grind. Unless they can mostly sit it out in the "park". Besides, it seems temporary, until Loup is no longer crazy or no longer exists. Also, given what he does to the forest, there may be a bit of relief, in that so far all they could do was sitting uncomfortably close to him and waiting for the other pinecone to drop. |
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Post by migrantworker on Dec 2, 2019 16:37:05 GMT
Firstly, reclaimed space may easily become a reservation which we have to earn first in the elves' minds. Effectively, a pie in the sky promise on the Court's part, with all the costs assigned to the refugees. A better deal than being stuck on a meadow just outside the walls to be sure, but a major source of resentment nevertheless (and so a great plot driver!). Secondly, while being reclaimed the space will continue to effectively be a front line - the roots will continue to act as an access route for forest creatures with an axe to grind. Unless they can mostly sit it out in the "park". Besides, it seems temporary, until Loup is no longer crazy or no longer exists. Also, given what he does to the forest, there may be a bit of relief, in that so far all they could do was sitting uncomfortably close to him and waiting for the other pinecone to drop. Unfortunately, much of the park has been destroyed by Robot's wooden arm tree (and the end result in top panel; you can just about see a ring of green at the bottom of the tree in the far distance). Oh yes, the tree folk would definitely prefer to just come back from the exile as soon as possible. But how much will remain from the Forest by then? It has been dissolving ever since Loup took over. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Dec 2, 2019 17:51:27 GMT
When the Annies originally went into the forest, they did ask Loup for a team of wood tree elves.
They wouldn't do that without some plan for what to do with them. Whether that involves Green Cards (because they're green, see?) or not, I don't know.
I like the real world, it's where I keep all my stuff.
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Post by mturtle7 on Dec 2, 2019 20:05:26 GMT
A bit of speculative narration of the tree elves' perspective on the story so far: You're going about your day as normal, doing whatever you usually do in the mid-afternoon on weekends. If you're on the outskirts of the village, you might hear a horrible, unholy growl, like a wolf but much bigger and louder and angrier, so you quickly head back inside because that means mean old Ysengrin is up to something; most likely you weren't close enough to hear it, though. Instead, the first warning you have that something's wrong would be this distant groaning, creaking, and finally crashing noise of wood wrecking stone. A few minutes later, there may be a sort of weird echoing " Sprang!" noise. Now you're almost certain the old wolf is making war or somebody or other out there, which is worrying, but probably not close enough to affect you, so you breathe a sigh of relief and continue with your day. But then, just a little bit later in the day, something much weirder happens. The builders and other magic-users would probably be the first to notice, as all the Ether in trees - including their own houses - starts blurring and changing color, like it's...degenerating? What the hell? You blink, make sure everything's fine in the material world. Yeah, seems fine, everything norm - oh SHIT that big post I made it's FALLING - all those roots and branches, they're SNAPPING like TWIGS - Run! E veryone run! Get to the village center, there's something wrong with the Fores-
Suddenly, you're not running in the village, you're walking through the trees. Not sure why, just kinda seems like the thing to do. Everyone else in doing it...wow, really EVERYONE is doing it. Literally, it looks like the whole village is with you, purposefully heading to...here? Wait, is this the far edge of the Forest? What the hell are we all doing here? What happened to the village? Is it okay? Shouldn't we be going back to fix all that stuff that was breaking for some reason? If you're toward the front of the crowd, you might notice Antimony (you remember her, that nice human girl who stayed in the village for a while, before Coyote made her Forest Medium, doing a pretty good job from what you hear) and she's sitting next to... another Antimony? Okay, that's weird, but maybe they can help? Antimony's the Medium, surely she can-
"You say you need the help of the tree elves to get my gifts back?" Wait what? Who is that? Is he talking about us?
"So be it! Take them all!" Is that Coyote or Ysengrin? He sounds kinda like both... Wait, is he talking to Antimony? What does he mean "take"?
"They are no longer welcome in my forest!" WE'RE WHAT!?!?! HIS WHAT?!? WHAT THE **** IS THIS?!?!
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 2, 2019 20:32:20 GMT
Another problem: The headcrabbed robots are going to have to be reprogrammed to recognize these dudes as allies, not enemies. ...preferably before there's an incident. ...while being reclaimed the space will continue to effectively be a front line - the roots will continue to act as an access route for forest creatures with an axe to grind. The tree folk would then be in an excellent position to receive the brunt of the attacks, while also being at their most vulnerable. Another cost for them to bear, with the Court reaping most of the benefit, at least initially. That at least isn't an issue, at least not for long. The elf building teams can shut down the root-passageways. It likely won't be easy or fast but once that's done the Court can clean out the various pockets of hostile creatures from the buildings/ruins in the red zones. After that they can concentrate on pushing back any salients and securing the border. By that point the other shoe should have dropped with regard to Coyote/Ys/Loup. Then hopefully some domestic tranquility will return. As far as where the forest dudes would live, some would probably prefer to be a buffer while living the same way they always did and dealing with the same creatures they always have. Others might prefer to live on more isolated farms outside the walls, and still others might take to urban living. If there's enough of a community to easily handle whatever assaults come from the Wood (perhaps with aid from the Court or other Court-elf settlements) using those who wish to live that way then the buffer plan might be workable. However, as refugees I suspect the majority would prefer security to keeping their lifestyle. There should be at least a need for a semi-permanent work camp at the big trees, which would mean a need to defend that camp as long as they're dismantling the trees (as timber prices all over the UK plummet from all the hardwood dumped on the market). I think the best option would be a mixed force defending the camp and letting those people who wish to mingle mingle, while those who don't are allowed not to. |
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 2, 2019 20:58:19 GMT
Edit: Anyone else thinks the elf in the middle of the last panel looks like a green Eglamore? You mean there are elves on this page who don't? |
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Post by migrantworker on Dec 2, 2019 22:04:26 GMT
As far as where the forest dudes would live, some would probably prefer to be a buffer while living the same way they always did and dealing with the same creatures they always have. Others might prefer to live on more isolated farms outside the walls, and still others might take to urban living. If there's enough of a community to easily handle whatever assaults come from the Wood (perhaps with aid from the Court or other Court-elf settlements) using those who wish to live that way then the buffer plan might be workable. However, as refugees I suspect the majority would prefer security to keeping their lifestyle. There should be at least a need for a semi-permanent work camp at the big trees, which would mean a need to defend that camp as long as they're dismantling the trees (as timber prices all over the UK plummet from all the hardwood dumped on the market). I think the best option would be a mixed force defending the camp and letting those people who wish to mingle mingle, while those who don't are allowed not to. That points to a different kind of problem: a potential dissolution of a close-knit community. (We actually only ever saw one tree folk village) - and again the cost falls squarely on the elves, with the court risking nothing of the sort. And they get to collapse whatever remains of UK's timber industry just days before a general election. There really is no easy way out for them, is there. ...sorry to keep raining on your parade. I really can't help it. I'm a tester by trade. I get paid for finding faults!  In any case, I am now hoping that the next chapter will show how all those matters are discussed - à la "The Fangs of Summertime", but hopefully with less violence. It could make for some great world-building. |
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Post by DonDueed on Dec 3, 2019 0:49:48 GMT
And thus begins the Elfugee Crisis.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 3, 2019 1:53:45 GMT
That points to a different kind of problem: a potential dissolution of a close-knit community. (We actually only ever saw one tree folk village) - and again the cost falls squarely on the elves, with the court risking nothing of the sort. I'm afraid that ship has already sailed. Unless the Court is going to put them all in an internment camp or a particular urban district (aka "ghetto") they're going to naturally wind up in different places. That isn't entirely bad; the close-knit nature of small community life may be over but small communities are infamous for long-running grudges and deep memories of a person's mistakes, while at the same time regularly overlooking/forgiving popular people's flaws when they shouldn't, and the same people being in charge for the same reasons from generation to generation. That last bit won't be a problem as I figure that beyond the most basic of operations against hostile creatures the forest folk will get no say whatsoever in how the Court is run. |
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Post by csj on Dec 3, 2019 5:14:58 GMT
I really hope we can avoid getting real world politics into the comic. If it's allegorical or alluding, it's kinda unavoidable, though only to what's relevant. As for age, refugees are an ancient issue, older than recorded history. It isn't really capable of aging. The problem of how to allow the elves to live their lives inside the Court is monumental and Kat is probably gonna try and solve it to hilarious (and hopefully not disastrous) results. Given her earlier responses to Annie being influenced by their habits, I think the cultural clash will be maddening. |
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Post by merry76 on Dec 3, 2019 7:10:56 GMT
If it's allegorical or alluding, it's kinda unavoidable, though only to what's relevant. As for age, refugees are an ancient issue, older than recorded history. It isn't really capable of aging. The problem of how to allow the elves to live their lives inside the Court is monumental and Kat is probably gonna try and solve it to hilarious (and hopefully not disastrous) results. Given her earlier responses to Annie being influenced by their habits, I think the cultural clash will be maddening. Yeah, but in the real world past, it has has been handled differently. In ancient times, people that got driven off by invaders often became invaders themselves if they could fight (migration patters suggest that people didnt want to stay when there is a migration push strong enough). If they couldnt, it was often a case of "Look, free slavs" (pun intended).
While the court needs manpower to rebuild (big parts of their infrastructure is in ruins), I guess there would be a big cultural clash. Its not like you can use the Forest Elves skills to build a hightec hab block. Forest folk is indeed so different from court dwellers that you had to DIE to switch the border properly. We have not seen a single forest elf in the court so far (that i can remember). The court even went so far as to shoot one and prevent the other from properly dying to prevent hanky panky between their own and the forest. I cannot think of any fracture between cultures that is this borked IRL. And we have places like china, india and all the -stans that are weirder to our western values that we can comprehend properly.
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blackouthart
New Member
Avatar drawn by Shelby Cragg!
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Post by blackouthart on Dec 3, 2019 8:12:45 GMT
If it's allegorical or alluding, it's kinda unavoidable, though only to what's relevant. As for age, refugees are an ancient issue, older than recorded history. It isn't really capable of aging. The problem of how to allow the elves to live their lives inside the Court is monumental and Kat is probably gonna try and solve it to hilarious (and hopefully not disastrous) results. Given her earlier responses to Annie being influenced by their habits, I think the cultural clash will be maddening. Yeah, but in the real world past, it has has been handled differently. In ancient times, people that got driven off by invaders often became invaders themselves if they could fight (migration patters suggest that people didnt want to stay when there is a migration push strong enough). If they couldnt, it was often a case of "Look, free slavs" (pun intended).
While the court needs manpower to rebuild (big parts of their infrastructure is in ruins), I guess there would be a big cultural clash. Its not like you can use the Forest Elves skills to build a hightec hab block. Forest folk is indeed so different from court dwellers that you had to DIE to switch the border properly. We have not seen a single forest elf in the court so far (that i can remember). The court even went so far as to shoot one and prevent the other from properly dying to prevent hanky panky between their own and the forest. I cannot think of any fracture between cultures that is this borked IRL. And we have places like china, india and all the -stans that are weirder to our western values that we can comprehend properly.
Wow, y’all. This is the guy who started his account on here by talking about how Parley wasn’t being drawn attractive enough. I’m not even going to try to touch any of this, but wow. Edit: nope, his first couple posts are about how Eglamore must find Annie hot, and how he ships Ysengrin x Annie. Even worse. |
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Post by merry76 on Dec 3, 2019 8:33:42 GMT
Wow, y’all. This is the guy who started his account on here by talking about how Parley wasn’t being drawn attractive enough. I’m not even going to try to touch any of this, but wow. Edit: nope, his first couple posts are about how Eglamore must find Annie hot, and how he ships Ysengrin x Annie. Even worse. Oh, you are still bitter that I dont share your beauty standards? Way to go. Also, I didnt ship anyone. And Ysengrin x Annie is a horrible ship at that. Ysengrin isnt a ship partner - he is more of a replacement for a father figure. Or he was, because now that he murdered Coyote, both him and Coyote are dead.
But its ok if you dont want to discuss what I wrote. I dont want to either. Not here anyway (mainly because you react in the way you did. Its not very productive). It just got thrown in our laps, and being someone who thinks about stuff like that (comes as part and parcel of being a P&P Roleplaying Enthusiast for 20+ years), it gets me to think. This is welcome - I love reading takes on what happens in this little fantasy universe (which is why I stopped lurking, and joined the forums).
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Dec 3, 2019 8:59:24 GMT
I share the same questions as many of you: what will the Court do with all these Elves? How will the Elves react to Loup's rejection?
I'd love to see another "Life among the Elves" chapter, with the Annies taking on their Forest medium roles to vouch for them before the Court.
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Post by migrantworker on Dec 3, 2019 9:24:21 GMT
That points to a different kind of problem: a potential dissolution of a close-knit community. (We actually only ever saw one tree folk village) - and again the cost falls squarely on the elves, with the court risking nothing of the sort. I'm afraid that ship has already sailed. Unless the Court is going to put them all in an internment camp or a particular urban district (aka "ghetto") they're going to naturally wind up in different places. That isn't entirely bad; the close-knit nature of small community life may be over but small communities are infamous for long-running grudges and deep memories of a person's mistakes, while at the same time regularly overlooking/forgiving popular people's flaws when they shouldn't, and the same people being in charge for the same reasons from generation to generation. That last bit won't be a problem as I figure that beyond the most basic of operations against hostile creatures the forest folk will get no say whatsoever in how the Court is run. Good point well made. I was about to say how small communities are conservative because they have managed to adapt to their circumstances - but of course now they find themselves in new and very different circumstances, in which the old ways cannot be expected to work well, or at all. A new adventure starts next Monday then. |
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