[2231] "Foolishness!"

[justhalf]

Typical villain.

[madjack]

Loup trying hard for the title of Princess Pft.

[gergle]

Sick to death of this dude. Can't Annie just stab him or something? Let's move on.

[hnau]

Sepp Herberger (German football player and manager) said:

The round thing has to go into the square thing.

[Elysium]

Coyote taking a dump on Loup was almost as hilarious as Loup pouting like a spoiled brat.

[migrantworker]

"I do NOT need advice of mere children!"

Ouch. Must have hit a sensitive spot.

...although I suspect the children secretly hope to catch another glimpse of old Ysengrin.

[pyradonis]

What this page made me immediately think of:

Loup is more of the spoiled brat kind of prince, though.

People who are better with symbolism than I am: Analyze away, why are Annies on spherical planets and Loup on a cubical one?

[bicarbonat]

Nov 25, 2019 9:12:31 GMT migrantworker said:

"I do NOT need advice of mere children!"

Ouch. Must have hit a sensitive spot.

...although I suspect the children secretly hope to catch another glimpse of old Ysengrin.

I hope they do, and that Coyote returns. The first one is emotionally satisfying; the second one is just damned interesting. I mean, oodles of trouble for the folks at Gunnerkrigg Court, maybe, but...not my pig, not my farm.

[philman]

Is this sowing the seeds of how Loup "dies", and becomes Ysengrin and Coyote again? He realises that Ysengrin's desire for power is holding him back rather than allowing him to become more powerful, and upon trying to "eject" the Ysengrin part of himself, ends up just becoming Coyote again.

[madjack]

Is anyone else picturing this page as having a single sphere with both Annies sitting on opposite sides while it rotates around Loup's cube and on its own axis like a planet?

I imagine it slows down while one of them is facing/talking to him because Loup is effectively 'controlling the scenery' and he probably does want to hear what they have to say, even if he doesn't like it.

[theonethatgotaway]

Nov 25, 2019 11:07:36 GMT madjack said:

Is anyone else picturing this page as having a single sphere with both Annies sitting on opposite sides while it rotates around Loup's cube and on its own axis like a planet?

I imagine it slows down while one of them is facing/talking to him because Loup is effectively 'controlling the scenery' and he probably does want to hear what they have to say, even if he doesn't like it.

Oooh no, now you've gone and planted this in my head




OT: Loup is regressing. The more he doubts himself, the less powerful he becomes. If the gods are made by the imagination of humans, and almost none of them know of Loup or believe he is anything but a trick of Coyote, surely the only thing giving him TRUE power is his own belief in the strength he absorbed from Coyote. 

So the lesson today is.... BELIEVE IN YOURSELF, KIDS, AND YOU TO COULD LAY SIEGE TO A COmplete secretive.. school of magic and... etheric.. what the hell kind of lesson is this for a kids' show?

[pyradonis]

Nov 25, 2019 11:22:56 GMT theonethatgotaway said:

Nov 25, 2019 11:07:36 GMT madjack said:

Is anyone else picturing this page as having a single sphere with both Annies sitting on opposite sides while it rotates around Loup's cube and on its own axis like a planet?

I imagine it slows down while one of them is facing/talking to him because Loup is effectively 'controlling the scenery' and he probably does want to hear what they have to say, even if he doesn't like it.

Oooh no, now you've gone and planted this in my head




OT: Loup is regressing. The more he doubts himself, the less powerful he becomes. If the gods are made by the imagination of humans, and almost none of them know of Loup or believe he is anything but a trick of Coyote, surely the only thing giving him TRUE power is his own belief in the strength he absorbed from Coyote. 

So the lesson today is.... BELIEVE IN YOURSELF, KIDS, AND YOU TO COULD LAY SIEGE TO A COmplete secretive.. school of magic and... etheric.. what the hell kind of lesson is this for a kids' show?

Actually, a human's mind is released into the Ether only upon their death. Who believes what about Loup is only relevant when the persons die.

[migrantworker]

Nov 25, 2019 9:27:20 GMT bicarbonat said:

Nov 25, 2019 9:12:31 GMT migrantworker said:

"I do NOT need advice of mere children!"

Ouch. Must have hit a sensitive spot.

...although I suspect the children secretly hope to catch another glimpse of old Ysengrin.

I hope they do, and that Coyote returns. The first one is emotionally satisfying; the second one is just damned interesting. I mean, oodles of trouble for the folks at Gunnerkrigg Court, maybe, but...not my pig, not my farm.

I don't know about trouble... things at the Court were more or less ticking along until Loup came and smashed the place. It would probably be seen as a change for the better, initially at least.

[machiavelli33]

Ah, the heart of the matter.

Coyote once put forth three of Ysengrin's forms: one which is how he is, one which is how others see him, and one which is how he sees himself.

I have a hard time believing that this view of Ysengrin is Coyote's. He might think of Ysengrin as beneath his notice - or his plaything - or small. But Coyote is Coyote - massive, cosmic and terrible. That's how he views *everything*. To actively think of Ysengrin, specifically, as *weak*? I don't buy it.

No. This is how Ysengrin sees himself.

[netherdan]

Nov 25, 2019 10:51:03 GMT philman said:

Is this sowing the seeds of how Loup "dies", and becomes Ysengrin and Coyote again? He realises that Ysengrin's desire for power is holding him back rather than allowing him to become more powerful, and upon trying to "eject" the Ysengrin part of himself, ends up just becoming Coyote again.

Yup. That's what Coyote's plan is about. Loup will realize it's an awesome idea to cut Ysengrin out of him, unbeknownst to him that this is exactly what Coyote was talking about. And then he will die! *insert big teeth and eyes looking at the fifth wall here*

Nov 25, 2019 11:07:36 GMT madjack said:

Is anyone else picturing this page as having a single sphere with both Annies sitting on opposite sides while it rotates around Loup's cube and on its own axis like a planet?

I imagine it slows down while one of them is facing/talking to him because Loup is effectively 'controlling the scenery' and he probably does want to hear what they have to say, even if he doesn't like it.

Oh, that would look interesting if animated like that

[fia]

Funny, I thought the "Bah, Foolishness!" is the Ysengrin part speaking. Coyote would not use the word 'foolishness', I think. And 'bah!' is an old man thing to say.

Of course Ysengrin wouldn't have looked so petulant while saying it, but that's because he was a big tree wolf and couldn't sit and cross his arms so easily, haha.

[Kuraimizu]

yeah Ysengrin's seeing himself as lesser than Coyote
but thinking he could use a god's powers better than Coyote
leading him to request Coyote's strength, so he could steal the rest of his powers.
creating Loup, who had Ysengrin's hatred of humans, and facsimiles of Coyote's powers
Leaving Loup with the problem, if Ysengrin is why Loup can't use Coyote's full powers
but, Loup doesn't want to die, but Loup is the persona that is the combination
of Ysengrin's and Coyote's memories and personas.

you could separate Ysengrin, and coyote back to their old selves

you could make a Ysengrin with coyote's persona and memories
and a Coyote with Ysengrin's persona and memories.
Which might have all of coyote's powers, which would then start destroying the humans
Meaning their only hope might be for Reynardine to absorb the tooth,
fight Ysengrin-coyote, and steal the body, then leave the body, to kill Ysengrin
leaving Coyote-ysengrin to eat the corpse, regaining his powers,
and the Demi-body of Loup, but the mind of Coyote, he might like being a Demi-God
-
or he might want to just be Coyote again, in which case he could shed the body of Ysengrin again.

or Loup might decide to shed the Body of Ysengrin, going from a Demi-God to a God
while retaining the persona of Loup, and gaining all of Coyote's powers like he wants.
again trying to destroy all the humans, again, their only hope might be for Reynardine to absorb the tooth,
fight Loup-coyote, and steal the body, leaving Reynardine as the final God.
-
or Reynardine might decide to leave the body of Coyote.
resulting in Coyote and Ysengrin just being corpses, and leaving the forest to manage itself.
-
or coyote's body and powers being too powerful and dangerous to leave unattended
Reynardine might take the body and powers into the Doll with him,
safely putting all that power, into the hands of one or two, teenage girls.

so 6 end games, not sure which will be better for the story.

[ctso74]

Nov 25, 2019 11:54:15 GMT pyradonis said:

Actually, a human's mind is released into the Ether only upon their death. Who believes what about Loup is only relevant when the persons die.

Which makes me wonder, what did Coyote mean by "experiencing Death"? Has Coyote and Ysengrin been released into the Ether, or is that Loup's role in all this? If that happens, will an Etheric being dying into the Ether affect things?

As for Sir Pouts-a-lot, maybe Loup inherited Ysengrin's inferiority complex, but displaces it all onto his Ysengrin side. His Ego will demand he proves Ysengrin's inferiority, or else it will mean the fault lies with Loup himself. He's going for the Water even if it's the death of him. Never underestimate the power of a wounded ego to motivate bad ideas.

[Draxiss]

I see that Loup inherited Ysengrin's self-loathing.

Also, I'm still holding onto the idea that Coyote never really 'controlled' the forest the way Loup thinks he did.

[Draxiss]

Look, I just really want the Forest to be a self-governed, classless, stateless society, okay?

[Gemini Jim]

LoupSengrin is turning into a pouty Pikachu at bottom right there.



And I like how the Annies appear to be edging toward "shoulder angel" status.

[jda]

"Don't worry, time will pass as normal, hehe.
Space, however..."

[Runningflame]

Loup is such a square.

Nov 26, 2019 0:02:32 GMT Gemini Jim said:

I like how the Annies appear to be edging toward "shoulder angel" status.

They'll have to be in pretty good shape.

[jda]

Nov 26, 2019 6:09:17 GMT Runningflame said:

Loup is such a square.

Nov 26, 2019 0:02:32 GMT Gemini Jim said:

I like how the Annies appear to be edging toward "shoulder angel" status.

They'll have to be in pretty good shape.

Ha! nice show!

[somebunny]

Sincerely hoping this goes in the direction of "Annie's support helps Loup learn to accept Ysengrin and he ends up staying around and becoming more powerful and kind than either Coyote or Ysengrin", and also sincerely hoping this doesn't go in the direction of "Loup ignores everyone and focuses on getting the lake water, and then kills himself after the revelation of the lake water's memory in order to advance Coyote's plan".

[bicarbonat]

Nov 25, 2019 12:24:41 GMT migrantworker said:

Nov 25, 2019 9:27:20 GMT bicarbonat said:

I hope they do, and that Coyote returns. The first one is emotionally satisfying; the second one is just damned interesting. I mean, oodles of trouble for the folks at Gunnerkrigg Court, maybe, but...not my pig, not my farm.

I don't know about trouble... things at the Court were more or less ticking along until Loup came and smashed the place. It would probably be seen as a change for the better, initially at least.

Except if this is more or less what Coyote planned (if he is indeed engaging in some next level death fantasy fulfillment and who knows what else), he kinda gets the credit for the smashing. The ticking along then becomes more of a false lull - which wouldn't surprise me, considering those brief flashes of mercenary hardness that we've seen from Coyote.

[migrantworker]

Nov 27, 2019 15:23:47 GMT bicarbonat said:

Nov 25, 2019 12:24:41 GMT migrantworker said:

I don't know about trouble... things at the Court were more or less ticking along until Loup came and smashed the place. It would probably be seen as a change for the better, initially at least.

Except if this is more or less what Coyote planned (if he is indeed engaging in some next level death fantasy fulfillment and who knows what else), he kinda gets the credit for the smashing. The ticking along then becomes more of a false lull - which wouldn't surprise me, considering those brief flashes of mercenary hardness that we've seen from Coyote.

That's my impression as well: Coyote may well have wanted to die, but he also arranged the whol affair in such a way as to leave open a possibility of the Court being attacked by somebody which is not quite himself.

But I'm not sure about a false lull. My understanding was that the Court was in fact secure enough, and for long enough, to casually ignore the Forest to the point where they did not even appoint a new medium for years after Surma's disappearance. Seeing how the bound dog attack was easily dispatched by a platoon of robots in 'Ties', and how even Loup's attack was stopped by the secret shield, I'd say they would actually be somewhat justified in their complacency.

[bicarbonat]

Nov 27, 2019 21:59:46 GMT migrantworker said:

Nov 27, 2019 15:23:47 GMT bicarbonat said:

Except if this is more or less what Coyote planned (if he is indeed engaging in some next level death fantasy fulfillment and who knows what else), he kinda gets the credit for the smashing. The ticking along then becomes more of a false lull - which wouldn't surprise me, considering those brief flashes of mercenary hardness that we've seen from Coyote.

That's my impression as well: Coyote may well have wanted to die, but he also arranged the whol affair in such a way as to leave open a possibility of the Court being attacked by somebody which is not quite himself.

But I'm not sure about a false lull. My understanding was that the Court was in fact secure enough, and for long enough, to casually ignore the Forest to the point where they did not even appoint a new medium for years after Surma's disappearance. Seeing how the bound dog attack was easily dispatched by a platoon of robots in 'Ties', and how even Loup's attack was stopped by the secret shield, I'd say they would actually be somewhat justified in their complacency.

I believe it's a false lull because they were allowed to believe that they were sufficient on their own. The relative ease with which the Court have dispatched and resisted threats doesn't reflect the full extent of the Forest's power. I think back to the Headmaster's bored disdain each time he's met with Coyote; his relaxed passing over Annie as Court medium, followed by real consternation when Coyote zags and appoints her Forest medium.

The Court trades on observation and intel; that's how they got Jeanne, that's how they built the Court from the bismuth seed. But if no one has intel on Coyote's thoughts, the only thing they can fall back on is observation. So far, they're either observing low-level feinted actions, or they're getting surprised (as the Headmaster was) by "sudden" actions...like, say, Loup.

[mturtle7]

Nov 27, 2019 5:38:53 GMT somebunny said:

Sincerely hoping this goes in the direction of "Annie's support helps Loup learn to accept Ysengrin and he ends up staying around and becoming more powerful and kind than either Coyote or Ysengrin", and also sincerely hoping this doesn't go in the direction of "Loup ignores everyone and focuses on getting the lake water, and then kills himself after the revelation of the lake water's memory in order to advance Coyote's plan".

Agreed! Honestly, I'm a little surprised that people in this thread paid a lot of attention to Loup, but haven't talked much about how Annie's insights. Loup just dissmisses her, but she's RIGHT, goddamn it. Our options at this point are not at all limited to "Loup dies and Coyote returns", "Loup becomes more like Coyote and takes control of the Forest again" and "Loup ruins the Forest and needs to be stopped".

The branches were very specifically keyed to Coyote's nature as a mad, chaotic, trickster, but all Loup really has to do to fix this is scrap Coyote's old system and build a new one that's personalized to him.The Forest might become less "chaotic" due to Ysengrin's contribution, but that same contribution will probably also make the Forest a lot more dangerous and powerful, just in time to rein everyone in the "red Zones" and handle any Court factions that might want to take advantage of the new lack of the Annan Waters. Loup seems like kind of a jerk, but that doesn't mean he can't be a perfectly competent and, indeed, legendary Leader of the Forest. If anything, he should become much more an actual leader than Coyote, who literally just let everyone do whatever they wanted to each other, as long as they respected him and the Mediums.