|
|
Post by madjack on Mar 22, 2019 7:06:09 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 22, 2019 7:09:47 GMT
There's a problem creating a lot of steam in an enclosed (or mostly enclosed) space, though. It has to do with the effect of steam on lungs and skin. Luckily this is a comic and the Antimonies' fire only burns what they want so... no problem after all?
Also: I'm guessing that Monty is attacking or an attack is clearly imminent and they're not going to kill him on general "he's a monster" principles. He did wait until they were lured to the door before closing it so it can be said he's trapped them...
|
|
|
|
Post by philman on Mar 22, 2019 8:06:42 GMT
"Heat up the whole room! That will boil up anything inside it!"
"But... aren't WE in this room as well?"
|
|
|
|
Post by Elysium on Mar 22, 2019 8:09:17 GMT
So we will get the steamy double Annie scene after all
|
|
|
|
Post by noone3 on Mar 22, 2019 8:46:10 GMT
I guess Tom is now working on splash page for monday. It will be something like that:  |
|
|
|
Post by csj on Mar 22, 2019 8:55:47 GMT
I feel sorry for anyone living above the antechamber that are about to find out if Fire Elementals can melt steel beams. On the upside, they might also get a taste of etheric fish and chips.
Loup was an inside job
|
|
|
|
Post by bicarbonat on Mar 22, 2019 9:29:45 GMT
Huh. I suddenly have this craving for some Pappadeaux'sRIP in peace, ashray. |
|
|
|
Post by merry76 on Mar 22, 2019 10:21:08 GMT
Not sure I like this kind of problem solving.
Not that it is much use to bring thermodynamics into a comic where the water elementals, the ether, souls and physical gods are a thing, but:
if you cant defeat an entitiy by heating it up directly with a certain amount of megajoules, you will get even less damage if you heat the room it is in, and certainly not more.
I get that Tom wants to establish that Courtneys laser burns right through the water elemental and does just miniscule damage to the water elemental itself because most of the lasers energy passes through it and hits the wall. But that in turn would apply as much heat as possible directly to the creature, and heat up the room by applying the laser energy to the wall. Heating the room. So attacking it directly IS the best option, especially if the creature gets a bit slowed down from being hit.
If you do not want to heat the entire room to boiling point (just the floor) you would need to fire your lasers through the creature and into the floor - giving you the possible stagger effect, heating up the creature as fast as possible and applying the rest of the energy to the floor it walks on. If, and thats a big if, it even needs to walk. Its very likely that you need to heat the entire room, Monky seemed to be able to stick to the walls just fine. Heating an entire steel box of that size to vaporisation point of magical water? If anyone wants to do the calculations, be my guest. Its probably in the Terrajoules of energy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eily on Mar 22, 2019 10:31:27 GMT
There's a problem creating a lot of steam in an enclosed (or mostly enclosed) space, though. It has to do with the effect of steam on lungs and skin. Luckily this is a comic and the Antimonies' fire only burns what they want so... no problem after all? Also: I'm guessing that Monty is attacking or an attack is clearly imminent and they're not going to kill him on general "he's a monster" principles. He did wait until they were lured to the door before closing it so it can be said he's trapped them... Also they are in the water themselves. Even if it's just their feet, standing in boiling water sounds rather unpleasant. Monty just slammed the door, and is starting to fill the room with water, and while it looks like it can change size (it navigated through trickles of water), it took a pretty menacing one. I doubt it's just trying to give them the talk. Edit: and I'm not sure they are actually trying to kill it, they are probably just trying to scare it away. After conveniently being sent alone together to a place where Loup could reach them, they are coveniently in a situation that needs the power of two Annies... I suppose I could attribute that to Smitty's smittiness. |
|
|
|
Post by saardvark on Mar 22, 2019 11:51:02 GMT
more sensible would be to vaporize the Ashray goop holding the door closed and escape... that would take minimal energy and reduce risk of poaching themselves. (Still, magic fire, so maybe they can make it burn just the Ashray?)
I suppose that heating the walls might vaporize Monky's attachment point to the ceiling, and he'd come crashing down(?)
also: Monky doesnt seem to be attacking, actually... just hanging there. Maybe waving his scorpion paws a bit. Is it really as much of a threat as they think?
|
|
|
|
Post by madjack on Mar 22, 2019 12:27:57 GMT
also: Monky doesnt seem to be attacking, actually... just hanging there. Maybe waving his scorpion paws a bit. Is it really as much of a threat as they think? From the earlier confrontation it looks like circling up to the ceiling is its windup, maybe the laser startled/stunned it? |
|
|
|
Post by netherdan on Mar 22, 2019 13:28:58 GMT
Apparently, you were wrong! Monky just hung there waiting for them to talk a whole 3 panels, that's like 20 seconds or so... Plenty of time to do a lot of attacking. The theory of the Therapist Ashray still holds |
|
|
|
Post by saardvark on Mar 22, 2019 13:32:51 GMT
Apparently, you were wrong! Monky just hung there waiting for them to talk a whole 3 panels, that's like 20 seconds or so... Plenty of time to do a lot of attacking. The theory of the Therapist Ashray still holds or obsessed fan-fish Monky..... |
|
|
|
Post by ohthatone on Mar 22, 2019 13:34:24 GMT
so the plan is to heat up the metal room they are standing in enough to boil the water creature they are also standing in.
this...does not sound like the most well thought-out plan. 
Unless has it been established that Annie has some resistance against heat?
on the upside their pores are going to look fantastic after that giant steam bath! |
|
|
|
Post by netherdan on Mar 22, 2019 13:35:18 GMT
I guess Tom is now working on splash page for monday. It will be something like that: I guess that's what happens when you break the atomic bonds of dihydrogen monoxide. At first it goes "kaboom" and if you keep heating it it goes "blam-whoosh-vrooom" while interesting things happens on the atomic level. That's why they teach us to never try to put out oil fire with water... I hope our Annies don't overheat the room |
|
|
|
Post by ctso74 on Mar 22, 2019 13:37:49 GMT
Monky doesnt seem to be attacking, actually... just hanging there. Maybe waving his scorpion paws a bit. Is it really as much of a threat as they think? I took note of the same thing, and in my head went, "Oh! Hey, guys. You're the ones that fell through the floor. Boy gosh, that must have been scary for you. I can understand you running away when I tried to help you up, but I'm harmless. My name's Devon, and I'll be happy to hel- AHHH! MY FACE!!!! WHY!!! AH!!!" Sadly, Devon only speaks in Gargle. Neither of the Carver twins knows Gargle. |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Mar 22, 2019 13:48:47 GMT
Is it really as much of a threat as they think? I've wondered that as well. So many "monsters" in the comic have turned out to be friendly that the two Annies might be jumping to conclusions about the Ashray's intentions (colored, perhaps, by Loup's remarks - he might *want* them to think that the Ashray's dangerous, for his own agenda). On the other hand, we've seen much evidence that there are some genuinely hostile beings in the Forest (and it's likely that Loup would have seen to it that all the hostile ones went into the Court while the ones more interested in peaceful relations - like the Anwyn or all the forest-folk whom Andrew was helping or who were at the party in the chapter that introduced the rabbit-boy and his fairy friend - were stuck in the "time freeze"). Incidentally, if the two Annies *are* mistaken in their assumptions about the Ashray, it would be a sign of how much Annie's changed; in the early days of the strip, she'd automatically assume that anything weird and etheric (whether a second shadow, a minotaur, or a Rogat Orjak) was something you could safely greet in a peaceful manner. |
|
|
|
Post by apache on Mar 22, 2019 14:04:45 GMT
So we will get the steamy double Annie scene after all WONDER TWIN POWERS, ACTIVATE!!!!! |
|
strangebloke1
New Member
Any Avatar you see me with is original work. Please ask me about it!
Posts: 30 
|
Post by strangebloke1 on Mar 22, 2019 14:05:18 GMT
Not sure I like this kind of problem solving. Not that it is much use to bring thermodynamics into a comic where the water elementals, the ether, souls and physical gods are a thing, but: if you cant defeat an entitiy by heating it up directly with a certain amount of megajoules, you will get even less damage if you heat the room it is in, and certainly not more. I get that Tom wants to establish that Courtneys laser burns right through the water elemental and does just miniscule damage to the water elemental itself because most of the lasers energy passes through it and hits the wall. But that in turn would apply as much heat as possible directly to the creature, and heat up the room by applying the laser energy to the wall. Heating the room. So attacking it directly IS the best option, especially if the creature gets a bit slowed down from being hit. If you do not want to heat the entire room to boiling point (just the floor) you would need to fire your lasers through the creature and into the floor - giving you the possible stagger effect, heating up the creature as fast as possible and applying the rest of the energy to the floor it walks on. If, and thats a big if, it even needs to walk. Its very likely that you need to heat the entire room, Monky seemed to be able to stick to the walls just fine. Heating an entire steel box of that size to vaporisation point of magical water? If anyone wants to do the calculations, be my guest. Its probably in the Terrajoules of energy. A few things. First of all, sure, but remember that the Ashray can recompose itself from any water. If you're heating it directly, it can just disperse itself around the room to cool off. So sooner or later you'd need to heat the whole room anyway. Secondly, Annie's fire is hot when she wants it to be. She's more than capable of instantenously vaporizing living creatures full of water.Heating an enclosed metal box to 250+ degrees isn't that bad. Sure, the Ashray might not die for a few minutes, but the main thing is that they'll beat it eventually. |
|
|
|
Post by The Anarch on Mar 22, 2019 14:18:34 GMT
That probably sounded cooler in her head.
|
|
|
|
Post by pinegreenjellybean on Mar 22, 2019 14:28:15 GMT
I mean....I can see that if they heat up the entire room, it'll evaporate all the reserves of water, including the Ashray, whereas if they attacked the Ashray alone, it could draw from the rest of the water to reform, but....
It seems like if they just kept their power on the Ashray itself, eventually it would use up all its water trying to reform, and they would be less likely to boil themselves in the process..... Also keep the Ashray immobilized, whereas if they try to heat up the walls, it has a chance to attack before its water gets evaporated...
Yeah, not so sure about Annie's plan. Also, a little concerned about the boiling themselves or hurting their lungs with steam and all.
|
|
caber
Junior Member
Posts: 77
|
Post by caber on Mar 22, 2019 14:46:26 GMT
I propose that any scientific incongruity in the plan is because of all the cheating Annie did off of Kat.
Seriously, I wonder how good her grasp of basic scientific principles actually is, what with all the focus on magic.
|
|
|
|
Post by saardvark on Mar 22, 2019 15:02:14 GMT
I guess that's what happens when you break the atomic bonds of dihydrogen monoxide. At first it goes "kaboom" and if you keep heating it it goes "blam-whoosh-vrooom" while interesting things happens on the atomic level. That dihydrogen monoxide is some nasty stuff..... |
|
strangebloke1
New Member
Any Avatar you see me with is original work. Please ask me about it!
Posts: 30
|
Post by strangebloke1 on Mar 22, 2019 15:19:33 GMT
The lung boiling is never going to come up.
If she could be hurt by heat reflected/imparted by her own fire, that would have come up loooong before now. Like, she defensively burns things as a matter of course. Burning a projectile coming at you doesn't make any sense if you could get hurt by something that you heated, since it would just turn a projectile into a smaller, burning projectile.
I can see her coughing on the water in the steam itself, like you would on a salt spray, but the heat is not going to be an issue.
|
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 22, 2019 15:19:56 GMT
Please permit me to complicate the conversation some more...
There's two reasons why heating the environment may be more energy-efficient than attacking the ashray directly. The first and probably most important is that the beam hitting the water creates steam which can, with the help of air at radically different temperatures near/within the steam explosion, refract the beam so that most of the energy after the first few milliseconds doesn't reach the ashray or do anything else useful. If their heat only burns what they want maybe they don't have to heat the entire structure of the room, maybe they just need to heat a thin surface layer, and they can do that through physical contact, not firing a beam. Maybe by heating the room they don't have to vaporize the ashray, they can make it have to or want to leave. Also: Not sure if the ashray being made of water means that it can replenish itself endlessly as long as it can draw water from outside or if the water in the ashray is unique and it can't replace parts of itself that way, or can't easily replace itself. Also not sure if they make steam it still counts as their own heat and therefore won't "burn" things they don't want (like scald themselves/each other) because it's the same energy that they produced or if the indirect results of Antimonies' heat can hurt them. I'm pretty sure that if an Antimony sliced off a piece of the ceiling and it fell on her that it would injure her...
Further complications: Even if the ashray isn't hostile at all and is just curious or is mutely trying to communicate, according to some not-in-the-comic sources ashrays can cause burn-like injuries to humans so even if it isn't trying to attack it might scar them permanently or kill them.
My assumption right now is that they know what they're doing and if they're wrong they will stop heating the place at some point before their skin starts to slough off. So it's all good.
|
|
|
|
Post by DonDueed on Mar 22, 2019 15:38:56 GMT
Some people seem to be forgetting that Annie has literally set herself on fire before with no ill effects. It seems that fire elementals are not easily damaged by heat.
|
|
|
|
Post by jda on Mar 22, 2019 15:53:38 GMT
Is it really as much of a threat as they think? I've wondered that as well. So many "monsters" in the comic have turned out to be friendly that the two Annies might be jumping to conclusions about the Ashray's intentions (colored, perhaps, by Loup's remarks - he might *want* them to think that the Ashray's dangerous, for his own agenda). On the other hand, we've seen much evidence that there are some genuinely hostile beings in the Forest (and it's likely that Loup would have seen to it that all the hostile ones went into the Court while the ones more interested in peaceful relations - like the Anwyn or all the forest-folk whom Andrew was helping or who were at the party in the chapter that introduced the rabbit-boy and his fairy friend - were stuck in the "time freeze"). Incidentally, if the two Annies *are* mistaken in their assumptions about the Ashray, it would be a sign of how much Annie's changed; in the early days of the strip, she'd automatically assume that anything weird and etheric (whether a second shadow, a minotaur, or a Rogat Orjak) was something you could safely greet in a peaceful manner. Marvelous observation |
|
|
|
Post by merry76 on Mar 22, 2019 16:03:18 GMT
A few things. First of all, sure, but remember that the Ashray can recompose itself from any water. If you're heating it directly, it can just disperse itself around the room to cool off. So sooner or later you'd need to heat the whole room anyway. Secondly, Annie's fire is hot when she wants it to be. She's more than capable of instantenously vaporizing living creatures full of water.Heating an enclosed metal box to 250+ degrees isn't that bad. Sure, the Ashray might not die for a few minutes, but the main thing is that they'll beat it eventually. You are right of course. Its just that heating up a metal box needs the energy to cook off the ashray plus the heat required to heat up the box - because the ashray is cooling down the box again while he is heated up, drawing heat energy from the heated up box. More efficient would be to create a wall of fire, and then drive it off with it. Annie did one of those way back, i believe when she was attacked in the forest by some uppity wood things. Now that we have two annies, that trick would even be able to herd stuff around pretty easily!
Another thing: If the ashray can instantaneously regenerate from water, he is not the perfect counter to water, fire is indeed the only element that can defeat it. Even if it is hard. The whole "water beats fire" thing video games present breaks down if you have an amorphous blob that cant really be hurt by anything else. Sure electricity would traditionally beat water, but all electricity does when it is directed at water is heat it up (it would also fry its brain, but that just survived getting burned in two by a laser. I dont think it has a traditional, physical brain. It appears to be a spirit moving the water).
|
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 22, 2019 16:15:14 GMT
Some people seem to be forgetting that Annie has literally set herself on fire before with no ill effects. It seems that fire elementals are not easily damaged by heat. Sure, I remember Antimony surrounding herself and Ys with her inner fire, and lighting her hair to celebrate becoming Coyote's medium. If she tried for the same effect by soaking her hair in gasoline and taking a match to it I'm not sure if she would be as unscathed. (her hair! it went up!) |
|
|
|
Post by Per on Mar 22, 2019 16:29:32 GMT
Incidentally, if the two Annies *are* mistaken in their assumptions about the Ashray, it would be a sign of how much Annie's changed; in the early days of the strip, she'd automatically assume that anything weird and etheric (whether a second shadow, a minotaur, or a Rogat Orjak) was something you could safely greet in a peaceful manner. I made a similar observation back in "Blue gets a name and whatnot"; Annie essentially found herself on trial for having been transposed into a completely different set of narrative premises without noticing. If she's changed, it could be that she merely finished internalizing the presumed reality of that transition. |
|
