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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 22, 2019 8:04:10 GMT
Courtnie complains about her wet attire in an sorta un-Antimony-ish way in today's comic but probably will get to show off next comic. Afterwards she'll feel better. And the blue illumination is still on the walls. |
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fjodorii
Full Member
It just does, ok?
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Post by fjodorii on Feb 22, 2019 8:09:32 GMT
blue illumination or just water?
one of the roots covers an 'exit' sign. Not something I expect in a sewer system. maybe this is a derelict undergound railway system?
And if Courtnie has better fire skills than Sylvie, I am going to be very confused.
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Post by merry76 on Feb 22, 2019 8:09:48 GMT
Courtney is the part of Annie that was more on the "traditional girlie" side. Getting dirty, wet etc. is icky, and worthy of a Pft.
But you are right, the illumination looks more and more like the circuits Kats Parents use, despite starting off as splashes of luminous water. I sure hope that the shapes arent made in those shape by the water monster (if they are, they are in deep trouble... Realityhacking monsters are bad news), but are instead old circuits that are brought to light by the luminous splashes.
If the latter is the case, Kat may be able to track where the Annies are.
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Post by Eily on Feb 22, 2019 8:12:35 GMT
Since when does Annie (from the Court) "I spent my summer in the Forest and got smelly" care so much about being clean? Especially in the context, she just fell through a floor and is seemingly being attacked by a giant water creature... Wait, does she actually know what's going own (the very powerful psychic Bud with some help from Ayilu playing mind tricks?) and just pretends not to in order to test her twin? |
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Post by keef on Feb 22, 2019 8:14:38 GMT
Courtnie complains about her wet attire They have to learn how to use their fire to dry there clothes from the inside out. Like witches Well, it would be quite a dark comic without it. |
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Post by madjack on Feb 22, 2019 8:19:51 GMT
blue illumination or just water? I'm on the 'monster controlled water' bandwagon, a bit like the...... Waaaaaaait. An underground labyrinth, check. Monster that makes water defy gravity, check. Evil clone of yourself you're fighting with? Check. All we need is the longshot and this'd be a Water Temple let's play. And if Courtnie has better fire skills than Sylvie, I am going to be very confused. I was almost right, but not quite. Not better, but far more controlled. I bet only Forest!Annie can go full AoE firestorm. |
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Post by worldsong on Feb 22, 2019 8:20:50 GMT
blue illumination or just water? one of the roots covers an 'exit' sign. Not something I expect in a sewer system. maybe this is a derelict undergound railway system? And if Courtnie has better fire skills than Sylvie, I am going to be very confused. I'm guessing Courtney's superior fire skills would come from six months of training to be able to take out assailants from the forest, as well as the basic improvements caused by being the older one of a pair who aren't done maturing yet. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 22, 2019 8:23:22 GMT
Since we first saw the bunker back in #2102 I've been curious about the lighting. I wondered if the green strip on the ceiling might have been some sort of indirect track lighting; the shadows suggested an overhead light source but it never seemed to be giving illumination. Today's comic has clear shadows underneath the characters but we get a good view of the overhead thinger in panel #4 and it's shielded cables (or possibly pipes) but no track lighting. By process of elimination I guess there must be periodic lights on the ceiling that have been out of frame. (shrug) |
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Post by Eily on Feb 22, 2019 8:24:03 GMT
To complete my previous post, I had kind of given up the idea that this was all a simulation (run by Kat, Dr. Disaster, or as I just realized, Ayilu) because only Sylvie was supposed to know about Loup and how he calls her...
That's of course unless they have intercepted the real message from Loup, who was sloppy enough that Courtnie (or Kat) could trigger it, and they were really shocked to hear it call Antimony "my love". So they've decided to test her loyalty, and while Kat mostly trusts Annie, she is still worried enough to make Paz turn agressive.
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Post by madjack on Feb 22, 2019 8:29:08 GMT
Those simulations needed feedback suits for the interactive ones, RP1 style. Only the 'holofilms' they showed like the one depicting the beginning of the Court didn't need it, presumably because it was just images. |
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Post by Eily on Feb 22, 2019 8:37:47 GMT
I wouldn't put it past Kat to improve on those simulations. But otherwise there's still the Ayilu hypothesis? Sure Red said she wanted nothing more to do with Annie, but this is kind of working against her, and their new home is being attacked by their old one, I wouldn't be surprised if they had to work a little extra to prove their loyalty to the Court. Should this be in wild speculations? By process of elimination I guess there must be periodic lights on the ceiling that have been out of frame. (shrug) We saw the ceiling though. And there weren't any lights there. |
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manabi
Junior Member
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Post by manabi on Feb 22, 2019 9:03:11 GMT
Since when does Annie (from the Court) "I spent my summer in the Forest and got smelly" care so much about being clean? Especially in the context, she just fell through a floor and is seemingly being attacked by a giant water creature... Wait, does she actually know what's going own (the very powerful psychic Bud with some help from Ayilu playing mind tricks?) and just pretends not to in order to test her twin? To be fair to Courtnie, a wet dress is really annoying. It'll try to cling to your legs, but fails as the momentum of your legs bumps it off them. It also gets cold quickly, so it feels cold and slimy against your legs. At least with pants they're more or less in constant contact and you can get used to it better. Her shoes are not good ones for an adventure like this, and are possibly making the ground feel slippery, thanks to their being wet. It could also be that she's upset that they may be ruined, instead of being dirty bothering her. Amusingly, I had that same thought about the dress when they first fell in the water, because it's a pretty dress. In her position, I'd be upset if it got ruined, too. one of the roots covers an 'exit' sign. Not something I expect in a sewer system. maybe this is a derelict undergound railway system? Large underground drainage systems like that often need maintenance, if not for the tunnels themselves, for utilities that may run through them. Notice there seems to be a center channel in the section they're in full of water, with a large area along one side to walk on, as well as the illumination. Having exit signs makes sense in that context, in case someone down there to do maintenance gets lost. The entire thing may be flooded when there's heavy rains, but it's accessible for maintenance at other times. |
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Post by Per on Feb 22, 2019 9:24:44 GMT
GC has never been much about representing lighting and light sources. If you look through all of Mainly Involves Robots, for instance, it has several indoors environments with several ceiling shots, but the only lamps shown are in the bridge flashback. The only lighting effects are:
* the ubiquitous background diagonals not indicative of luminosity or location
* sometimes characters have dark ovals beneath them, sometimes not
* when Annie and Reynardine are standing in front of a bright screen, Rey casts a faint directional shadow
More recent chapters aren't much different. Occasionally there are special lighting effects like when the green arrow is involved, or when Anthony walks away at the end of The Shadow Men and casts... a shadow! Because he's a shadow man. That's what the refrance.
So I'd say that's clingy water, not luminescent strips or circuitry.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 22, 2019 10:30:11 GMT
one of the roots covers an 'exit' sign. Not something I expect in a sewer system. maybe this is a derelict undergound railway system? That looks like a central canal in panel #1. This is probably a system of flood tunnels with some tunnels designed to be always flooded, others sometimes-flooded, and the rest (hopefully) dry. I have seen smaller spillways with illuminated exit signs in the USA, not sure about the UK. Of course, it could be something odd with no real-life parallel. Maybe Jan's dad races hydrofoils down here. Courtnie complains about her wet attire They have to learn how to use their fire to dry there clothes from the inside out. Like witches Since the fire only burns what an Antimony wants it to they should be able to do that. But an opportunity to practice probably doesn't come along that often. And could be expensive. Well, it would be quite a dark comic without it. Harsh shadow and lots of black usually limits color palette and makes things easier to draw. I wouldn't put it past Kat to improve on those simulations. But otherwise there's still the Ayilu hypothesis? Sure Red said she wanted nothing more to do with Annie, but this is kind of working against her, and their new home is being attacked by their old one, I wouldn't be surprised if they had to work a little extra to prove their loyalty to the Court. Should this be in wild speculations? By process of elimination I guess there must be periodic lights on the ceiling that have been out of frame. (shrug) We saw the ceiling though. And there weren't any lights there. What Per said about lighting. Assuming the bunker and tunnels are real (see below) there has to be a light somewhere but I guess it isn't plot relevant. Since when does Annie (from the Court) "I spent my summer in the Forest and got smelly" care so much about being clean? Especially in the context, she just fell through a floor and is seemingly being attacked by a giant water creature... If Courtnie is Antimony +6 months she's been six months without going to the Wood, and she's also got a double now so she may be voicing complaints she wouldn't normally. Her priorities may well have changed... And may include getting on Fannie's nerves. Looking at Fannie's face in that same panel, it's working. Wait, does she actually know what's going on (the very powerful psychic Bud with some help from Ayilu playing mind tricks?) and just pretends not to in order to test her twin? It is possible that this is an Ayilu-generated illusion or Bud is playing psychic tricks, or even that Kat's souped-up Randy's sim tech or invented her own, but getting attacked by a creature in order to get a possible duplicate to reveal her true colors sounds more like an Antimony-generated plan. Courtnie said that Kat didn't tell her about " this" which suggested Courtnie knew some of what was going to happen, or thought she knew. Her reactions have been a little funky which could be evidence for this being not-entirely-on-the-up-and-up, but there are alternative explanations. Some or all of this being an illusion would explain why there's no light source and why they didn't take damage from falling, and why the creature's attack didn't land or even interrupt the message. One problem would be that whoever's doing the illusion would have to be close or monitoring in real-time to weave things like "Loup's" message into the fantasy. Kat would presumably be okay. That would put Ayilu in danger of getting hit by Antimonies' fire, and probably the same goes for Bud. I don't think the significant others would allow that, though maybe Bud might risk it and hope Lin never finds out. However, that may be something that Kat's computer can fix. With Kat's assistance maybe they can create illusions remotely from someplace dry and comfortable. But it just doesn't look like how Ayilu's power has been illustrated in the past. We haven't really seen Bud do something like this at all, and even if he can his power appears to be characterized by red etheric greebling, not blue, and Merostomatozons can't see very well above water. Bud would need help if he's going to weave unexpected stuff into the illusion. It doesn't look like the wasp's powers either, and the wasp is dead in any case. Therefore if this is an illusion it's either Kat doing it, Kat aiding it, or all this is something new. Also: If the bunker and sewers are illusory they'd still have to be somewhere similar to avoid collateral damage, so why deceive them about the location? Kat and the robots should be able to locate good spots in the Court for this test. They've got George so they really can teleport them places. Why include Courtnie? If this is ALL an illusion then her presence would work against whatever the illusion is supposed to accomplish. If she knows its a test she's not going to reveal anything, and if nothing else her reactions to things could be immersion-breaking. But if including her is about Courtnie experiencing the same inconveniences as Fannie, as opposed to waiting for Fannie to go through whatever ordeal and then going "pft" when Fannie returns, then it could be understandable. Kat might consider that fair. At first I thought that the message from "Loup" couldn't have been entirely an illusion fabricated from whole cloth but actually there's nothing in it that Fannie didn't tell Kat except the "my love" part, and there are some oddities like the number of days being wrong and "Loup" saying that he was going to see both of them when he's only indirectly-mentioned Courtnie before and not mentioned her fate at all. Maybe if it's a psionic collective hallucination the factoid of "Loup" calling Fannie his love might leak out and some details might get scrambled, but then the fact that it's an illusion would be forefront in Courtnie's mind so why isn't any of that leaking to Fannie? On the other hand, maybe if it's Ayilu she misremembered the facts she was told about when Fannie arrived, but it was also the day a Jones fell out of the sky like a meteor. I don't think Bud or Ayilu would make that error, and I know Kat wouldn't. So: Whatever the truth is I don't think ALL of this can be an illusion. Having the setting be an illusion seems especially pointless. Courtnie's reaction to seeing the creature appears to be a panic-driven slip and fall. But I suppose it could have been disorientation from the fall and surprise, or if she did know it was an illusion perhaps she has started to forget. I do think there is some evidence for some of it maybe being an illusion, but there's some evidence for it being real as well. |
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Post by coastal on Feb 22, 2019 11:10:44 GMT
In a "sorta un-Antimony-ish way" -- Something about the way Court!Annie is behaving struck me. Her "princessy" behavior is not really like behavior that we've seen from Annie before. But doesn't it seem like the way a possible child of Surma and Tony's might behave? Right now Court!Annie is reminding me of certain things about Surma, and certain things about Tony, rather than of younger Annie. Could be due to either: - Six months of living in the Court under Tony's influence and the fact that different traits than previously seen may surface during teenagehood. - Loup splitting Annie into Court and Forest versions in a way that is, like, the reverse (or mirror) of how Coyote and Ysengrin were combined to make one fairly different character. Or both.
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Post by netherdan on Feb 22, 2019 12:12:27 GMT
Wow! Bioluminescent jelly water, didn't think about it but it all makes sense now!
PS: except that the shadows would be facing away from it
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Post by todd on Feb 22, 2019 12:59:16 GMT
Why the near-obsession with "it's all a dream/simulation/illusion"?
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Post by Fishy on Feb 22, 2019 13:10:15 GMT
I’m thinking this will be the first of their bonding experiences. I can tell from experience that nothing gets you closer with your clone than having them teach you advanced fire magic. There’s also the possibility of additional pfffting, but I’m pleased to say Frannie looks to no longer be taking any BS when the chips are down.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 22, 2019 13:38:28 GMT
Why the near-obsession with "it's all a dream/simulation/illusion"? tl;dr of my previous post: I can build a defensible case for some of what the twins have been experiencing post-bip as being an illusion/simulation. It would explain some of the things that have been happening in the comic that seem a little off but if true would make other things seem odd. I can also build a case for everything that's been happening being real that I think is a better fit for the evidence right now; though it leaves some big questions unanswered that's par for the course for GC. Of course, everyone's free to believe, theorize and discuss as they wish. |
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Post by Polyhymnia on Feb 22, 2019 14:14:18 GMT
In a "sorta un-Antimony-ish way" -- Something about the way Court!Annie is behaving struck me. Her "princessy" behavior is not really like behavior that we've seen from Annie before. But doesn't it seem like the way a possible child of Surma and Tony's might behave? Right now Court!Annie is reminding me of certain things about Surma, and certain things about Tony, rather than of younger Annie. Could be due to either: - Six months of living in the Court under Tony's influence and the fact that different traits than previously seen may surface during teenagehood. - Loup splitting Annie into Court and Forest versions in a way that is, like, the reverse (or mirror) of how Coyote and Ysengrin were combined to make one fairly different character. Or both.
Great point! Courtnie seems to share more similarities with Surma in a more emotional, prissy sort of way. That is, she complains more and emotes more, in a sharper fashion. But she also has the self-contained and focused edge that we've seen, similar to Anthony. I think his expectations for her behavior coupled with the war scenario have been making a different Annie, one with much more human sympathies. |
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Post by ohthatone on Feb 22, 2019 14:17:13 GMT
Princess Pft has probably picked up some new behaviors while living with Tony. Even though he seems to have relaxed he still has his ways, like being neat and meticulous. Annie, wanting his approval, may have consciously or unconsciously started taking those traits for herself, so she now cares if she's clean.
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Post by ctso74 on Feb 22, 2019 14:46:22 GMT
That seems like a lot of root to just laser. Maybe, Courtnie is going to laser it into cubes, which will then roll out?
It is entirely possible that Courtnie has a different take on her powers, and general life events, because she's had six different months than Frannie. Six months at that age can make quite a difference, especially with new living conditions. My personal guess is that Loup split Annie into "parts", that add up to the previous "whole", and they'll need Loup to come back together. However, there's no reason that they could simple be different, due to teenagers changing/growing a lot in six months.
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 22, 2019 15:19:30 GMT
At first I thought that the message from "Loup" couldn't have been entirely an illusion fabricated from whole cloth but actually there's nothing in it that Fannie didn't tell Kat except the "my love" part, and there are some oddities like the number of days being wrong and "Loup" saying that he was going to see both of them when he's only indirectly-mentioned Courtnie before and not mentioned her fate at all. Maybe if it's a psionic collective hallucination the factoid of "Loup" calling Fannie his love might leak out and some details might get scrambled, but then the fact that it's an illusion would be forefront in Courtnie's mind so why isn't any of that leaking to Fannie? On the other hand, maybe if it's Ayilu she misremembered the facts she was told about when Fannie arrived, but it was also the day a Jones fell out of the sky like a meteor. I don't think Bud or Ayilu would make that error, and I know Kat wouldn't. That was a great, deep analysis. I would only like to add one thought to that part: Loup looks how he is supposed to, down to every hair. Even if both Annies told Kat (or anyone else) how Loup looked, they would not be able to recreate him perfectly to that extent.
Why the near-obsession with "it's all a dream/simulation/illusion"? That, my friend, is simply normal behavior for webcomic readers. Do not forget that only some pages ago, people still argued everything since Annie had left the Forest was an illusion... |
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Post by DonDueed on Feb 22, 2019 15:52:43 GMT
one of the roots covers an 'exit' sign. Not something I expect in a sewer system. maybe this is a derelict undergound railway system? Shouldn't the sign say "Way Out" rather than "Exit"? Or has the UK adopted the American standard signage? |
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Post by Mitth'raw'nuruodo on Feb 22, 2019 16:08:10 GMT
Courtnie seems more and more like a return to an older Annie rather than the more recent and developed one. Does this return to tradition mean that she is more or less likely to be the "true" Annie? I still do not believe that they are both real, especially since Loup so casually knew there were two.
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Post by Rasselas on Feb 22, 2019 16:26:31 GMT
Ahhh, it's been a while since I've visited and let me say, I'm delighted with all the variations of names for Annie.  You guys! I've missed you! And your theorizings. I just popped in to say, I love the way Tom draws bodies. They just feel so real. I think he gets the proportions somehow eerily right, they almost pop out at me like they have actual 3D weight. For what it's worth, I don't think this is a simulation or a dream, feels like it'd cheapen the experience of them bonding again, and Loup's threat would fizzle away. It works way better as an experiment in bonding that went wrong due to Loup's interruption. As a story device, I don't see what a simulation would accomplish here, or how it might turn into a plot device. If the events are real, they feel more powerful for me. I love how this shows the differences and disparities between the two Annies. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Feb 22, 2019 17:13:26 GMT
one of the roots covers an 'exit' sign. Not something I expect in a sewer system. maybe this is a derelict undergound railway system? Shouldn't the sign say "Way Out" rather than "Exit"? Or has the UK adopted the American standard signage? "Way Out" does seem more British, especially in a subway station. But then, I don't think they always use "Way Out." "Bray Out" would just sound stupid. (EDIT: At least more stupid than Brexit already does.) |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Feb 22, 2019 17:51:47 GMT
For what it's worth, I don't think this is a simulation or a dream, feels like it'd cheapen the experience of them bonding again, and Loup's threat would fizzle away. It works way better as an experiment in bonding that went wrong due to Loup's interruption. As a story device, I don't see what a simulation would accomplish here, or how it might turn into a plot device. If the events are real, they feel more powerful for me. The idea behind the simulation theory, as I understand it, is this: Kat wants this situation resolved. Kat doesn't want to hurt her friend. She is also a nerd with mad tech skills. Ergo, she engineers a little Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra situation where the two Annies have to work together, maybe fight a monster or something, maybe work together to cut some roots down to escape?? It doesn't matter if the situation is fake, or if it's a hologram-enhanced escape room. What matters is the experience. They can "you tricked us!" later, but they will still have had the bonding. Or that's the plan, in theory. (EDIT: Even if it's real, with a real monster role-playing and real roots blocking a real exit, there's still a bit of fakery involved. It's not like they asked to be trapped in a bunker. ) |
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Jota
Junior Member
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Post by Jota on Feb 22, 2019 18:32:20 GMT
My (probably wrong) guess about this whole simulation question:
There is a simulation created by Kat et al. to make them work together. However, the Annies are missing it entirely, because it's taking place upstairs in the room Parley originally dropped them off in. They won't even find out about it until after they get back to the rest of the gang (who will believe themselves to be responsible for the Annies' learning to accept each other).
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Post by Gemini Jim on Feb 22, 2019 18:42:58 GMT
My (probably wrong) guess about this whole simulation question: There is a simulation created by Kat et al. to make them work together. However, the Annies are missing it entirely, because it's taking place upstairs in the room Parley originally dropped them off in. They won't even find out about it until after they get back to the rest of the gang (who will believe themselves to be responsible for the Annies' learning to accept each other). They were able to get downstairs from the original room pretty easily. Kat's simulation or friendship trust exercise or escape room or whatever might have included the second floor with all of the pipes and stuff. It was only when MiniLoup broke into the simulation that things started getting really dangerous - they dropped down into the third floor. |
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