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Post by bicarbonat on Nov 16, 2018 16:30:26 GMT
Them's fightin' words! We've seen plenty of evidence that Annie goes from mini-Tony to savage when someone's unfortunate enough to trip her wires, so I'm really interested to see what a Firehead Girl tête-à-tête would result in. Will one unexpectedly flame out when up against the other? Or will it just be a gyre of etheric pointing-Spider-man-meme'ing until somebody interrupts?
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Post by fia on Nov 16, 2018 16:48:13 GMT
Sorry, I just had a big private laugh imagining that Annie thinks Annie 2 is basically this. I'm still of the opinion that Annie 2 is real, just from a different timeline. Because how could Loup mess with time and not be able to mess with spacetime? They're the same thing! Also this is feeling like a very classically Doctor Who-esque timeline. And I endorse it.
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Post by tustin2121 on Nov 16, 2018 16:51:31 GMT
One of the comments on the page: Faker?! I think you're the fake hedgehog around here! Now I have this irrational desire that both of them are real and have to live with each other, and one dyes her hair with black streaks and changes her name to ShadowAnnie or something. On a more related note: I'm jumping on the bandwagon of this whole thing being off or faked in some way, what with how Court!Annie didn't seem to remember Jones being shot into the sky... Perhaps this is "Loup's Trick", in that the trick is still going on in Annie's mind or something and that he hasn't actually sent her back to the court... Coyote has at least seen Tony before, so I imagine Loup would remember that Tony has a fake hand (though he might get the nature of it wrong, like thinking it's stone rather than prosthetic plastic). Coyote has never met Kat before, but Annie has likely mentioned her a lot and talked about her. So if Loup is making this whole thing up from whole cloth... I expect missing personality quirks... Missing people... Maybe Annie should ask how Shadow2 and/or Robot are doing, because Loup probably wouldn't know about them, and perhaps if he knew about Shadow, he'd think Shadow is still attached to the floor.
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Post by saardvark on Nov 16, 2018 17:24:12 GMT
*airhorn* *airhorn* *airhoooooorn* I don't believe shorthair!Annie will take that very well. Things can still be settled with the Renard test, that might well show they're both Annie, but this isn't a smooth beginning. When it becomes clear that shorthair!Annie has been living with Tony and making memories with Kat, longhair!Annie will take it much more poorly. I don't think anyone has noted this yet, but beyond the test of which Annie (or both?) could command Renard to do something, there is another useful thing Renard could do... he could see Court!Annie's ether self is wonky. In fact, if Court!Annie has interacted with him *at all* in the past six months, he should have noticed this already, been rightfully concerned and mentioned something to Kat (at least). Maybe this is why both Tony and Kat gave Court!Annie a bit of side-eye when they first saw Forest!Annie (Renard had already told Kat that something about ether-Court!Annie was a bit "off")? But if Renard *had* mentioned it to them, a wise strategy would be to bring him into the interrogation room as well, to compare the ether selves of the two Annies. Maybe this is coming up soon? (Of course any ether-sensitive being could also investigate the ether-Annies, eg, Red, but Renard is probably more interested and close at hand....)
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Post by saardvark on Nov 16, 2018 17:31:25 GMT
I'm still of the opinion that Annie 2 is real, just from a different timeline. Because how could Loup mess with time and not be able to mess with spacetime? They're the same thing! One difficulty with this idea is why is Court!Annie's ether self so wonky? It would make sense if Court!Annie was a poor copy (her fire at least), but if both are real, what is happening? The fire elemental part of Annie can't survive splitting in two, so one half must decay eventually? Maybe...
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Post by darlos9d on Nov 16, 2018 17:55:27 GMT
Gunnerkrigg is one of the few pieces of media where I could see a copy of the main character get introduced and actually just stick around forever. So I really have no clue where this is going.
It's great.
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Post by Runningflame on Nov 16, 2018 18:23:55 GMT
"She's a fake, and she doesn't know the territory!" ( reference)
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 16, 2018 18:25:04 GMT
To people saying "why wouldn't Kat be able to tell it wasn't Annie" - if your best friend is acting odd and a little not themselves, your first conclusion is not necessarily "they're actually a FAKE CLONE of my friend" - you'd probably just be upset and wonder what was up with them. Especially someone like Kat, who's so reluctant to explain things with magic. Of course that would not be her first conclusion (not like Annie, who some chapters ago immediately concluded that Kat must have been brainwashed). However, Kat knows what Coyote was capable of, and what "Ysengrin" should be capable of, so it would not be far off for her to suspect he did something to Annie, when she comes back and acts like a different person. It's not as if people regularly change their personalities over night (remember Court!Annie was only gone for one night). And even if she accepted that, someone else arriving who claims to be the real Annie, and indeed also looks acts like the Annie who left the Court six months ago, unlike the one that came back six months earlier, how should that not tip Kat off?
*airhorn* *airhorn* *airhoooooorn* I don't believe shorthair!Annie will take that very well. Things can still be settled with the Renard test, that might well show they're both Annie, but this isn't a smooth beginning. When it becomes clear that shorthair!Annie has been living with Tony and making memories with Kat, longhair!Annie will take it much more poorly. I don't think anyone has noted this yet, but beyond the test of which Annie (or both?) could command Renard to do something, there is another useful thing Renard could do... he could see Court!Annie's ether self is wonky. In fact, if Court!Annie has interacted with him *at all* in the past six months, he should have noticed this already, been rightfully concerned and mentioned something to Kat (at least). Maybe this is why both Tony and Kat gave Court!Annie a bit of side-eye when they first saw Forest!Annie? But if he had mentioned it to them, a wise strategy would be to bring him into the interrogation room as well, to compare the ether selves of the two Annies. Maybe this is coming up soon? (Of course any ether-sensitive being could also investigate the ether-Annies, eg, Red, but Renard is probably more interested and close at hand....) I am not sure, has Tony come to trust Renard by now? Maybe Tony did not want him to come.
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Post by todd on Nov 16, 2018 18:30:45 GMT
Perhaps this is "Loup's Trick", in that the trick is still going on in Annie's mind or something and that he hasn't actually sent her back to the court... Coyote has at least seen Tony before, so I imagine Loup would remember that Tony has a fake hand (though he might get the nature of it wrong, like thinking it's stone rather than prosthetic plastic). Coyote has never met Kat before, but Annie has likely mentioned her a lot and talked about her. So if Loup is making this whole thing up from whole cloth... I expect missing personality quirks... Missing people... The big question is: what would be the point of it? It would only delay Annie's fetching the items for him - and we know he's not patient. (The only reasons I can think of would be: a) he's suddenly realized he can do something like that and does it purely for the thrill, without thinking out the long-term consequences or b) he's deliberately delaying Annie's return so that he can then claim that she didn't follow through on her instructions, and so he's attacking the Court again to punish her - and since it's obvious that he caused the delay, it wouldn't be a strong justification - though he might not be aware of this, or care.) Not to mention such story problems as Tom having to do Annie's return to the Court for real all over again, without making it look as if he's doing her return to the Court all over again. I don't see what the point of sending Annie to an illusory or simulated Court would be, beyond a "filler chapter" or to provide some cheap short-term thrills for the readers at the expense of the narrative.
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Post by machinedragon on Nov 16, 2018 18:48:27 GMT
“Oh my God, Annie, you can’t just accuse someone of being a fake version of yourself.”
EDIT: Well, I guess I shouldn't have just that as my first post here. (Though I could have sworn I'd posted before, but I digress.)
I wouldn't put too much stock into the fact that court!Annie didn't know where Jones was prior to this event. The explosions in the sky happened before Loup explained to her where he put Jones, so the divergence likely happened before he explained where she went.
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on Nov 16, 2018 18:51:50 GMT
Of course that would not be her first conclusion (not like Annie, who some chapters ago immediately concluded that Kat must have been brainwashed). However, Kat knows what Coyote was capable of, and what "Ysengrin" should be capable of, so it would not be far off for her to suspect he did something to Annie, when she comes back and acts like a different person. It's not as if people regularly change their personalities over night (remember Court!Annie was only gone for one night). And even if she accepted that, someone else arriving who claims to be the real Annie, and indeed also looks acts like the Annie who left the Court six months ago, unlike the one that came back six months earlier, how should that not tip Kat off? True, but from Kat's perspective, there could also be plenty of other reasons for Court!Annie to be acting strangely - and it's also not the first time Annie has gone through somewhat of a personality change in response to events. For example, accepting her elemental side led her to becoming a lot more expressive and less cold and restrained (if over some time), and she reverted pretty severely for a time after Tony returned. And, well, a lot has been going on. The Court is currently under siege and presumably in a state of emergency. Annie can no longer go to the place that's offered her escape from the Court and an opportunity to express the elemental, Etheric side of her. Coyote, who she was fond of, is dead, and her pseudo-father-figure Ysengrin committed a brutal murder in front of her, changed severely, and then (from her perspective) asked her to leave the Forest. She's admitted to being an indirect cause of the attack by freeing Jeanne, and we don't know how Tony reacted to those news in the long term (or who else in the Court knows, and how they reacted). There's lots of reasons any odd behaviour from Annie could be explained away by Kat as "man, all this stuff is really getting to her." If, that is, the difference between fake and real Annie wasn't a drastic, immediately noticeable difference, but rather smaller elements that just seem a bit off over time. However, I agree with you on one thing: if Court!Annie has indeed been acting differently, and Kat has picked up on that, we should see her be fairly willing to support Forest!Annie's theory that Court!Annie is the fake. For now, Kat has mostly stood and stared and provided exposition, so we don't really know what she thinks about this situation yet. I'm sure the next few pages will show us. Another thought - I've been listening to Tom's videos going over previous chapters, and one thing he mentioned is that a core character trait of Kat's is that she's fiercely loyal to her friends, in particular to Annie. How will that loyalty be tested in a conflict between two different versions of her best friend? Also also - Tony: "since then there has been no activity from the forest directly." What indirect activity has there been, I wonder?
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Post by keef on Nov 16, 2018 21:43:06 GMT
“Oh my God, Annie, you can’t just accuse someone of being a fake version of yourself.” EDIT: Well, I guess I shouldn't have just that as my first post here. (Though I could have sworn I'd posted before, but I digress.) I wouldn't put too much stock into the fact that court!Annie didn't know where Jones was prior to this event. The explosions in the sky happened before Loup explained to her where he put Jones, so the divergence likely happened before he explained where she went. Welcome to the forums! And I disagree. She went to the forest with Jones and has no explanation how and why Jones disappeared? That's strange, and at least a tiny bit suspicious. And while I'm at it; she says she met Ysengrin (or at least someone in the shape of Ysengrin) and she didn't realize there was something strange about him? I'm certain now, c-Annie is the fake, burn her! Or not of course. Of course, if she realized she was a fake she wouldn't have said Annie-F looked real... so... My head hurts.
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Post by shaihulud on Nov 16, 2018 21:56:16 GMT
It should be noted that Tony and Kat have literally moved from their starting positions in the middle, to stand by the Court Annie, with the table between them and Forest Annie. As in, they literally are standing by her and taking her side.
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Post by mturtle7 on Nov 17, 2018 0:09:45 GMT
“Oh my God, Annie, you can’t just accuse someone of being a fake version of yourself.” EDIT: Well, I guess I shouldn't have just that as my first post here. (Though I could have sworn I'd posted before, but I digress.) I wouldn't put too much stock into the fact that court!Annie didn't know where Jones was prior to this event. The explosions in the sky happened before Loup explained to her where he put Jones, so the divergence likely happened before he explained where she went. Welcome to the forums! And I disagree. She went to the forest with Jones and has no explanation how and why Jones disappeared? That's strange, and at least a tiny bit suspicious. And while I'm at it; she says she met Ysengrin (or at least someone in the shape of Ysengrin) and she didn't realize there was something strange about him? I'm certain now, c-Annie is the fake, burn her! Or not of course. Of course, if she realized she was a fake she wouldn't have said Annie-F looked real... so... My head hurts. I think there's a misunderstanding here. Nobody said that Annie2 has no explanation of HOW Jones disappeared. She just didn't know WHERE she was. I think her description of her perspective of this unfortunate scene would have gone something like this: "she was thrown way up into the air, through the clouds, and that's the last I ever saw of her." The audience got to see her keep going up and then stay in orbit, but poor Annie was not privileged with this information. Jones might have been sent flying away to Australia for she knew. Or just crashed back down into the Forest. Or launched all the way to Mars or something. Not exactly a lack of possibilities there.
Now, why the oh-so-amazing surveillance of the COURT didn't know the location of Jones at all times, THERE'S a more interesting question. Or, why Annie only knew that "something" fell from the sky. It's not like Jones wouldn't be perfectly capable of identifying herself as soon as she lands.
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Post by warrl on Nov 17, 2018 0:42:20 GMT
It's not like Jones wouldn't be perfectly capable of identifying herself as soon as she lands. Actually, she wouldn't be perfectly capable of identifying herself to someone else until she digs herself out.
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Post by todd on Nov 17, 2018 3:36:01 GMT
Now, why the oh-so-amazing surveillance of the COURT didn't know the location of Jones at all times, THERE'S a more interesting question. [/div][/quote] Damaged from Loup's attack and still not repaired yet? (Granted, it's been six months.) And maybe the Court's been too focused on figuring out what the Forest is up to to give much thought to Jones (who isn't an official member, from what I've gathered).
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Post by jda on Nov 17, 2018 4:04:23 GMT
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Post by madjack on Nov 17, 2018 4:38:40 GMT
More wildspec of sorts. Perhaps there's another explanation for Kat being in sorrow-mode: The Court has decided it's too dangerous for anyone who isn't necessary and has somewhere else they can go to stay there, so Paz has been sent home.
Edit: That would be symbolic of itself actually; Peace has left the Court.
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 17, 2018 19:36:45 GMT
It has been years, Jones should have a new phone by now...
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Post by arf on Nov 17, 2018 20:58:33 GMT
Tut, tut, Annie. That's no way to address your doppelganger.
Here's something else to stir the pot: during the break, Tea was questioning Court Annie.
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Post by fia on Nov 18, 2018 15:13:26 GMT
I'm still of the opinion that Annie 2 is real, just from a different timeline. Because how could Loup mess with time and not be able to mess with spacetime? They're the same thing! One difficulty with this idea is why is Court!Annie's ether self so wonky? Oh, I didn't think it was that wonky. Annie's fire has sort of Annie's hair whenever she's in the ether, and you'll note that this is after Ysengrin has destroyed her blinker stone. See, a a couple of pages later, her fire is 'cut off' from her hair even though she's "intact" now. It took a lot of work for Annie to be at ease with her own anger and process her emotions in a more healthy way! That is why I think Annie2 is real but from a different timeline; one where her relationships have developed differently and she hasn't quite had the progress Annie has. I mean, I might be wrong and the fire projection of Annie2 is wonky. For me though the fact that she has a fire at all already shows there is at least something 'real' about her.
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Post by philman on Nov 18, 2018 16:17:50 GMT
Oh come on Annie, you have been in the forest, talking to the court's enemy for the last 6 months, and now as soon as you come back you are accusing the version of you who has been living among the court for the last 6 months of being a fake? Do you really think they are going to believe you?
I really hope they sort out that both of them are real soon, I don't want this to become an annoying "evil Annie" imprisoning the "Real Annie" storyline. It would be much more interesting to have both as real.
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Post by saardvark on Nov 18, 2018 16:44:27 GMT
One difficulty with this idea is why is Court!Annie's ether self so wonky? Oh, I didn't think it was that wonky. Annie's fire has sort of Annie's hair whenever she's in the ether, and you'll note that this is after Ysengrin has destroyed her blinker stone. See, a a couple of pages later, her fire is 'cut off' from her hair even though she's "intact" now. It took a lot of work for Annie to be at ease with her own anger and process her emotions in a more healthy way! That is why I think Annie2 is real but from a different timeline; one where her relationships have developed differently and she hasn't quite had the progress Annie has. I mean, I might be wrong and the fire projection of Annie2 is wonky. For me though the fact that she has a fire at all already shows there is at least something 'real' about her. Hmm, an interesting take on it. I guess the wonky aspect I was reacting to wasn't so much the part-healed cut (if thats what the fragmentary nature indicates), but that it is also part normal hair, and that aspect has a part-healed cut as well. court!Annie's ether hair is unlike anything we've seen before, like it's 4-way schizophrenic: "am I fire cut (or not), normal cut (or not)?". Even the fire aspect seems a bit different than usual, with fading into fire with some rising flames at the end, even emitting embers, rather than being more like internally fire-lit strands of regular hair. It all looks unstable, a lot like Loup! An unstable construct - not sure of what it is - of an unstable Coyote-Ys merger, was my inference. Could be wrong tho! But if I take your point of view, maybe the wonky aspects come from the fact that court!Annie's different timeline experiences haven't let her cut from her fire aspect heal as completely or as well as forest!Annie... the latter has been able to heal the cut more completely. Yeah, that could work too... Well, I guess we will see soon what is actually going on!
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Post by netherdan on Nov 18, 2018 20:29:51 GMT
Here's something else to stir the pot: during the break, Tea was questioning Court Annie. Dammit you're right! Though she wasn't wearing her makeup yet and seemed a lot more vivid, I think maybe she was at 2 to 3 months living with her dad so she haven't changed a lot yet, now at 6 months she looks like an Anthony2 instead of Annie2
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