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Post by philman on Aug 17, 2018 7:19:37 GMT
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Post by madjack on Aug 17, 2018 7:21:12 GMT
From one controlling parental figure to another.
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fjodorii
Full Member
It just does, ok?
Posts: 134
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Post by fjodorii on Aug 17, 2018 7:29:25 GMT
Might there be tooth missing, perhaps?
curious about the remark about loss of control over the forest. could that be the reason there were reports of forest creatures in the Court earlier on?
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Post by philman on Aug 17, 2018 7:39:00 GMT
Might there be tooth missing, perhaps? curious about the remark about loss of control over the forest. could that be the reason there were reports of forest creatures in the Court earlier on? I imagine the forest creatures crossing into the court was intentional, Jeanne the protector is gone, Loup has destroyed the old bridge and created a new one, making it easy for forest creatures to cross. And we have seen before, many don't need much excuse to want to attack. And as for what's missing, control? Sanity? Ysengrin didn't realise just how powerful Coyote was, Coyote held back his power all this time. Loup doesn't care about holding himself back, but he doesn't have the same power that Coyote did. |
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Post by Nepycros on Aug 17, 2018 8:15:00 GMT
"Beware of Loup" is a statement that I expected Ysengrin to discuss in greater detail. Something about Loup's nature, or how Coyote influences Loup. But instead Ysengrin follows it up with Coyote's nature and how his Strength is an insignificant part. He then states that Loup taking control weakened Coyote's control of the forest. No statement is made of Loup's control, or even if he has any control.
Ysengrin uses a past tense statement of cause and effect to mask a potential for present tense. "When Loup took control, Coyote's grip on the forest loosened..." If Loup took control of Ysengrin's mind, it would only imply that control of the forest would also trade hands. But this is not at all what Ys is implying. Instead, authority and power are all deemed to still be in Coyote's name. Nobody wrote Loup's name on the deed to the forest, metaphorically speaking. And yet the actual owner, Coyote, now has a loosened grip? What is Loup's end game? Has he unshackled all his attachments to the forest and divested them solely on attaining access to Antimony? Does Loup's fixation on the fire elemental have something to do with the Court's own ambition to send her away?
To the one who said that "Something is... missing" relates to Coyote's tooth, I do think this implies that Coyote's intent with the tooth was to give an "out" to his own death. I should consider that dagger to be of strong enough caliber to at least destroy the totems. The existence of the dagger is so well-kept from the forest that there had to be some kind of intention behind it. Court residents were apparently allowed to know of it, or at least Annie's closest circle of friends.
I always figured that Coyote had a back-up plan to revive himself. A being like him with such cryptic knowledge of the future would be ill-suited to throw it all away, even on a whim.
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fjodorii
Full Member
It just does, ok?
Posts: 134
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Post by fjodorii on Aug 17, 2018 8:56:01 GMT
I don't think Loup has an end game plan yet; he has just been created, essentially by accident and probably is still figuring out what he wants to be when he grows up. Of course he is shaped by the spirits and memories that he kind of feeds on, I see it as a 1+1=3 type of situation. If Ys is still 'in there' then so is Coyote and I imagine that Loup's first goal is to keep control, and second to establish his place on earth and in the ether.
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Post by rafk on Aug 17, 2018 9:11:20 GMT
Loup is Coyote shorn of the annoying promise keeping bits Coyote wanted free of. Coyote was the iron fist in the velvet glove, Loup is just the fist. Coyote was the abuser who caused harm to Ysengrin and Annie but then wooed them back with charm and niceness, Loup is the abuser who just wants to terrify you into submission.
Beware Loup indeed. As she and Ysengrin should have been more wary of Coyote all along.
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Post by madjack on Aug 17, 2018 9:16:22 GMT
It could be more than just the tooth, what was the goose bone and lake water really made up of? Ys wasn't around when those were given out either.
Also other could be things like Ys' army, Renard's body etc, somehow I don't think it's any of them, but I'm at a loss to what it could be as well.
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Aug 17, 2018 11:23:43 GMT
So maybe Loup is actually the embodiment of the true Spirit of the Forest? Keep in mind the Woods were already around BEFORE Coyote or the Court came along, with a story exciting enough for our dear doggy deities to be attracted to it.
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Post by faiiry on Aug 17, 2018 11:50:13 GMT
I may not like how Ys was cut off before he could spill, but it makes sense that Loup wouldn't let him. WHY would the court take Annie far away?!
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Post by todd on Aug 17, 2018 13:00:58 GMT
I may not like how Ys was cut off before he could spill, but it makes sense that Loup wouldn't let him. WHY would the court take Annie far away?! Ysengrin changed the subject even before Loup interrupted him, anyway. This development has certainly curtailed any hopes for a peaceful resolution (Annie reasoning with Ysengrin, melting away his anger at the Court with love and friendship, say - or Annie using her etheric talents to free Ysengrin from Loup's control). It looks as if Annie and the rest will have to resort to force - with the probable price being Ysengrin's death along with Loup's; a sad thought. |
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 17, 2018 13:18:13 GMT
Wait until you see Annie's reaction. I am not yet convinced it has to end in violence. Right now I am much more interested in what is missing. My first thought were the inhabitants of Fun City, but those monsters respect anyone strong enough to beat them into submission, so it's probably not them. My second thought was that Coyote somehow held the Forest together and it's now dying, but, as theonethatgotaway pointed out, the Forest had stood there before. So, now, my third thought and theory: It was Coyote's might that separated the Seed Bismuth from Gillitie Wood - and now it will spread out again... |
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Post by madjack on Aug 17, 2018 13:21:40 GMT
So, now, my third thought and theory: It was Coyote's might that separated the Seed Bismuth from Gillitie Wood - and now it will spread out again... Oooooh I like this one. |
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Post by ctso74 on Aug 17, 2018 14:39:06 GMT
Wait until you see Annie's reaction. I am not yet convinced it has to end in violence. Right now I am much more interested in what is missing. My first thought were the inhabitants of Fun City, but those monsters respect anyone strong enough to beat them into submission, so it's probably not them. My second thought was that Coyote somehow held the Forest together and it's now dying, but, as theonethatgotaway pointed out, the Forest had stood there before. So, now, my third thought and theory: It was Coyote's might that separated the Seed Bismuth from Gillitie Wood - and now it will spread out again... "Something is... missing..." is pretty vague. He may have been changing the subject, but I do like your idea. There's plenty we don't now about pre-Coyote Forest. Coyote may have devoured (or trapped) earlier powerful denizens, who were freed with Loup's birth. We don't officially know what he did with all the bodies of Court transfers, so if Coyote fractured into multiple entities, there may be a surplus of bodies to choose. That may include Renard's old castaway. If the missing power has formed into other new (or old) beings, Loup's attack may have to withdraw from internal conflicts, which will put the Court almost back to status quo. "Something is... missing..." sounds so ominous, though. I'm thinking it's not Coyote's car keys... |
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Jota
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by Jota on Aug 17, 2018 14:45:19 GMT
If Ysengrin is still in there, that suggests that Coyote might be as well -- especially given how Ysengrin refers to "Coyote's grip on the forest", as if it were still a thing (albeit weaker than it was before). If Coyote is in there, then it sounds to me like Coyote's still alive. Which means he's not dead. Which means that those plans Loup talked about here and here aren't finished yet. Loup talks about how Reynard wouldn't kill Coyote, then says "But along comes the fire head girl! How strange! How strange! Fire head girl sees value and worth in the miserable Ysengrin! Ah! Now this is new!" I assume we're meant to read this as saying that Annie helped Coyote realize that he could use Ysengrin to kill him. But couldn't "along comes the fire head girl!" instead mean that Coyote realized that Annie could be the one to kill him? So here's the theory I'm proposing: the actual reason that Coyote gave Annie the fang in the first place was specifically because he wanted her to use it to kill him in the form of Loup. |
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Post by unbalanced on Aug 17, 2018 14:49:15 GMT
Ysengrin says "his strength is only the smallest fraction of his whole", so he's talking about Coyote's powers. Then the "something missing" could be Coyote's power to control others, which is currently owned by Renard, right?
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Post by csj on Aug 17, 2018 14:51:57 GMT
I wonder if he tastes better than wisps.
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 17, 2018 15:06:25 GMT
Wait until you see Annie's reaction. I am not yet convinced it has to end in violence. Right now I am much more interested in what is missing. My first thought were the inhabitants of Fun City, but those monsters respect anyone strong enough to beat them into submission, so it's probably not them. My second thought was that Coyote somehow held the Forest together and it's now dying, but, as theonethatgotaway pointed out, the Forest had stood there before. So, now, my third thought and theory: It was Coyote's might that separated the Seed Bismuth from Gillitie Wood - and now it will spread out again... "Something is... missing..." is pretty vague. He may have been changing the subject, but I do like your idea. There's plenty we don't now about pre-Coyote Forest. Coyote may have devoured (or trapped) earlier powerful denizens, who were freed with Loup's birth. We don't officially know what he did with all the bodies of Court transfers, so if Coyote fractured into multiple entities, there may be a surplus of bodies to choose. That may include Renard's old castaway. If the missing power has formed into other new (or old) beings, Loup's attack may have to withdraw from internal conflicts, which will put the Court almost back to status quo. "Something is... missing..." sounds so ominous, though. I'm thinking it's not Coyote's car keys... Dang, you are right. :-o The rabbit's body was still alive, only uninhabited, just like Renard's original body. I (like Annie, I guess) assumed that Coyote was going to devour the body, but he explicitly did not say what he was going to do with it other than "taking care" of it. "Coyote is no liar." says Jones, but of course, if the others make assumptions he does not need to lie... Who knows what he really did with all the bodies. :-o |
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Post by darlos9d on Aug 17, 2018 15:15:34 GMT
"Okay, can I speak to Coyote next?"
"Okay."
*Loup sends Coyote out*
"Ha ha! Wow! This is some crazy shit, isn't it?"
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Post by Runningflame on Aug 17, 2018 16:44:46 GMT
I miss you already, Ysengrin.  |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 17, 2018 17:57:55 GMT
If "Loup" isn't able to control Coyote's power there may be leakage and accidents as the ether flows through him in an uncontrolled fashion... like Zeta makes spiders and Zimmingham, but based on Ys' personal take on Gillite.
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Post by todd on Aug 17, 2018 18:22:00 GMT
Did Coyote know that this would happen to Gilltie Wood when he got Ysengrin to kill him? (I have the uneasy suspicion that if he did know, he didn't care - probably a tone of "since I'm moving on, I won't need my toys any more, so they can all get broken - Court and Forest alike".)
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Post by fia on Aug 17, 2018 19:47:33 GMT
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Post by Nepycros on Aug 17, 2018 20:53:20 GMT
I love the idea of all the GC gang gathering up their little bits and pieces of Coyote. They pour the lake water on a table, drop in the wish bone and the fang. Then have Reynard roll around in it until a miniature Coyote pops out and laughs at them.
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Post by Corvo on Aug 17, 2018 21:43:32 GMT
Oh no! Annie have big bazoongas now! Nah, she must be hiding the "missing thing" in her top.
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Post by grahamf on Aug 17, 2018 22:51:31 GMT
"The number you just dialed is no longer in service"
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Post by todd on Aug 17, 2018 23:59:16 GMT
I love the idea of all the GC gang gathering up their little bits and pieces of Coyote. They pour the lake water on a table, drop in the wish bone and the fang. Then have Reynard roll around in it until a miniature Coyote pops out and laughs at them. I still wonder why they'd want Coyote back. He engineered all this trouble; restoring him would mean that he'd be free to cause yet more, at the expense of the Court - and maybe the Forest as well. Unless he's being presented here as the lesser evil, the only alternative to the disorder of Loup threatening both Gunnerkrigg and Gilltie. |
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Post by liminal on Aug 18, 2018 4:33:35 GMT
"The number you just dialed is no longer in service" I just wanted to state, for the record, that I really appreciate your avatar. That is all. |
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Aura
Junior Member
I'm a ninja!
Posts: 79
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Post by Aura on Aug 18, 2018 7:20:49 GMT
Calling it now, the missing piece is Rey.
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Post by davidm on Aug 19, 2018 4:20:28 GMT
Loup is showing good leadership and diplomacy skills. Ysengrin should have been a team player, but instead he makes a fool of himself... Loup=Coyote+Ysengrin, if Loup is worse than Coyote then clearly it is Ysengrin's fault and he should be trusted even less than Loup. So Loup wisely saves the old fool from embarassing himself any more.
And if you ever doubt this then Loup will shred your flesh and grind your bones!
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