Did we ever figure out what happened on page 1018?

[Señor Goose]

Someone mentioned it on the subreddit and now I'm struggling to attach meaning to it. On page 1018 and the next one we see someone (maybe Anthony) wrapping like gauze or tape around Annie's foot. Was this discussed or resolved in the forum or did I totally miss the meaning of it?

[madjack]

Taping up feet and ankles to strengthen them and help avoid injuries?

[warrl]

That was my call on it. Note that they are both dressed in gis, so it's either just before, just after, or during martial-arts practice.

[Zox Tomana]

It's Anthony taping up Annie's ankle, presumably after she tripped and gave it a jerk, or twisted it wrong. The whole chapter deals with Anthony and Annie's relationship in one way or another. Or course it's Anthony "Stone Face" Carver.

[faiiry]

I always interpreted it as a kind of heartbreaking breakdown of Annie and Tony's relationship. The nonspecific martial arts thing they're doing is less important than the fact that, on page 1019, Annie is happy to simply be able to grasp the back of her father's shirt. That's the extent of the affection she got from him.

[Eversist]

Jun 23, 2018 15:04:22 GMT faiiry said:

I always interpreted it as a kind of heartbreaking breakdown of Annie and Tony's relationship. The nonspecific martial arts thing they're doing is less important than the fact that, on page 1019, Annie is happy to simply be able to grasp the back of her father's shirt. That's the extent of the affection she got from him.

Yeah, this. Also the fact that he's actually making physical contact and caring for her in an overt way. A little sad to think about.

[tc]

Jun 23, 2018 15:04:22 GMT faiiry said:

The nonspecific martial arts thing they're doing is less important...

Respectfully disagree. A common thread running through most martial arts is the code of conduct that practitioners must abide by, which is usually a variation on using the skills for defence (of the self and others) only, and never using it to do wrong upon others. Learning martial arts can also help people develop a sense of confidence and self-reliance.

The way I interpret those pages, one aspect is that we're seeing Tony spending time with Annie, and trying to teach and help her through what's likely to happen over the next few years as best he can.

Another aspect I reckon is important is that Tony is treating Annie's injury and teaching her martial arts himself. If Tony were truly indifferent to Annie's existence (or considered her of secondary importance to Surma) he could have enrolled her in a public class and have her injuries treated by a nurse - remember that they live in a hospital!

We know that Tony's flat affect is usually most pronounced when he's actually suffering emotional crisis, and going by Annie's age on those pages it's likely that Surma has a year - or less - to live at this point. Behind the stoicism, Tony's almost certainly adrift in a sea of utter despair and it's taking every last drop of his self-control to not show it.

So I guess in summary, dedicating time to teach Annie martial arts may be (among other things) the only thing Tony feels he can do for Annie at that time. There's potentially quite a lot of subtle symbolism in those pages too - in addition to the symbolism of martial arts (self-reliance, defence, moral code) we see that in teaching and trying to help Annie, Tony's actions have caused her to be injured. Being Tony, he doesn't make a fuss - he simply sets about treating Annie's injury with the skills he does have. My interpretation of Annie's holding on to the hem of Tony's gi would be an indication that Annie understands that this is her father demonstrating his love and desire to care for her, even if it's somewhat unorthodox to our eyes.

The last few pages have dropped significant hints that Tony pays a lot more attention to emotional cues (and to Annie's well-being) than we've seen him let on...

[blazingstar]

Jun 27, 2018 7:25:35 GMT tc said:

We know that Tony's flat affect is usually most pronounced when he's actually suffering emotional crisis, and going by Annie's age on those pages it's likely that Surma has a year - or less - to live at this point. Behind the stoicism, Tony's almost certainly adrift in a sea of utter despair and it's taking every last drop of his self-control to not show it.

I completely agree with every single one of your points about Tony except this one.

I ask you to consider: Tony does not emote like most people do. What if it doesn't take him self-control to hide his emotions, but instead, it takes him energy (and/or feeling comfortable with someon) to SHOW them? 

[Jay]

The way that the tape is being wrapped makes me think it's preparatory (like hand wraps under boxing gloves) and not for an injury. It might have been the first time judging by her expression.

Personally, the flashback felt really relatable in that I think people remember weird things from their childhood. I can remember the shape of a banister from when I was a kid and there are nice feelings associated with that memory of sitting on the stairs in that house but I don't really know anything else about it. The focus and detail on the gi is what signaled that for me.

It was also after Donny told her how Tony is about people, so probably she's taking this weird kid-memory and thinking about it in a different light. I think it's interesting to revisit it too, with what we know now.

[Zox Tomana]

Jun 28, 2018 21:40:23 GMT Jay said:

The way that the tape is being wrapped makes me think it's preparatory (like hand wraps under boxing gloves) and not for an injury. It might have been the first time judging by her expression.

You wrap hands for boxing because the bones inside the hand are poorly supported for punching things without proper technique. Honestly I've never heard of wrapping the feet for similar reasons. I can tell you that the pattern Tony is following is the classic way in which medics are taught to wrap the foot and ankle. Annie likely didn't plant her foot properly, or something similar, and rolled/sprained her ankle.

[warrl]

I can tell you that the pattern Tony is following is the classic way in which medics are taught to wrap the foot and ankle.

He's a doctor. Doctors and medics wrap bandages in certain ways because it *works*. I would expect him to wrap that way, without regard to why he's wrapping.

[Zox Tomana]

Jun 28, 2018 22:52:57 GMT warrl said:

I can tell you that the pattern Tony is following is the classic way in which medics are taught to wrap the foot and ankle.

He's a doctor. Doctors and medics wrap bandages in certain ways because it *works*. I would expect him to wrap that way, without regard to why he's wrapping.

But you decide to wrap based on reasonable need, and if you're questioning what's going on without an explicit reason you should look at what is most likely. The most likely reason for him to be wrapping her foot is due to injury fo the ankle*, meanwhile to show prep for sparring it would be (artistically) most reasonable to show him wrapping her hands because it would be basically unequivocal. You might wrap a foot to prep for sparring in something like kickboxing, but Tom was clear in the commentary on 1018 that the art was non-specific, and Annie's skills thus far have been displayed through throws, implying a discipline more akin to judo.

*As to why I say this is more likely: we wrap hands because punching with improper technique leads to broken bones down there, esp. of the fourth and fifth metatarsals. They don't have as solid of a line to transmit force further along the arms compared to the 2nd and 3rd. Meanwhile, a kicking motion (into a person) is not as likely to break the bones of your foot, and the construction of the ankle is going to handle those forces a lot better than putting all the force of a punch into your fourth knuckle. Injury to your foot from the relevant motion in sparring is simply not as likely. Injury to the ankle due to sprain, strain, or a roll is probable, and a wrap is not going to do squat to actively prevent the occurrence the same way wrapping knuckles is used to prevent breakage of the bones in your hand. If the forces you're putting into your ankle are enough to strain the ligaments in there, some relatively wimpy stretch wrap ain't gonna help you (okay, the truth is that results are mixed when you look at real life, but even so if you're trying to prevent ankle injury, the most common techniques are by taping--which to my mind is on par with compression wrap for actual reinforcement--or bracing the ankle, not wrapping with a compression bandage). The point of a compression bandage like Tony is applying is the bring down/prevent swelling. As to structural support of the joint, it's about on par with certain things we apply to people with neck injuries: more about reminding you to take it easy than it physically secures your ankle.

[tc]

Jun 28, 2018 21:07:07 GMT blazingstar said:

I ask you to consider: Tony does not emote like most people do. What if it doesn't take him self-control to hide his emotions, but instead, it takes him energy (and/or feeling comfortable with someon) to SHOW them?

Fair point, and I present as evidence Tony's outward appearance in this infamous scene - which is placid, if not outright cold; with what he later admits to Donny was his actual state - implied to be crippling turmoil and self-loathing at what he was doing*.

To a lesser extent, there's also this "blink-and-you'll-miss-it" moment at the start of "Get Lost", where we see Tony instinctively move to comfort Anya and Donny, only to stop himself in the process.

[* - If you read between the lines of that chapter it is heavily implied that the Court was blackmailing Tony into being the instrument of their displeasure towards Annie by threatening Tony with Annie's permanent exile.  At no point does Tony try to explicitly use that as an excuse to evade responsibility for his actions - either to Donny or himself. ]