[1942] Chompers

[theonethatgotaway]

Don't let these pesky memories hold you back!

[madjack]

"Do you know what the definition of insanity is?"

This is not ok Coyote.

[avurai]

Now I’m starting to feel like Coyote is trying to teach Ysengrin a lesson.

Only he removes his memories so he never gets to learn.

So actually it’s more like he’s punishing him in perpetuity.

[youwiththeface]

*shudder*

[Angry Individual]

So, wait, he is taking his strength and essentially making him upright like a human when he gives him his powers? Honestly making him look a lot more anthro, perhaps due to his hatred of humans while Coyote loves them. Looks like he doesn't even remember getting the powers.

This is a really sad joke.

[kayback]

Jan 29, 2018 8:27:28 GMT Angry Individual said:

So, wait, he is taking his strength and essentially making him upright like a human when he gives him his powers? Honestly making him look a lot more anthro, perhaps due to his hatred of humans while Coyote loves them. Looks like he doesn't even remember getting the powers.

This is a really sad joke.

As capricious as Coyote is I don't think he's doing all this just to be mean. I suspect he has an actual end game.

[jda]

Jan 26, 2018 15:11:34 GMT jda said:

BEGIN
Question = "Which of my powers would you want?"
WHILE imNotBored
{
    ASK Subject Question
    GET Answer
    IF Answer IS "The ability to take bodies"
    {
        GIVE Subject Power
        EXIT
    }
    ELSE
    {
        REMOVE Subject Memory
        STORE Memory IN Self
    }
}
DO whateverIWant
INITIATE Party

END

Truer than I'd like...

[Jelly Jellybean]

This montage shows Coyote asking and Ysengrin responding in the same manner before and after Ysengrin obtained his tree form.  Ysengrin may think his tree form is strong, but he doesn't think it is Coyote's strength no matter how many times Coyote picks his brain.

[faiiry]

It seems to me that Ysengrin already has more than enough strength of his own, and he could very easily "show the humans how weak they are" of his own accord. The only thing stopping him is probably Coyote's lack of permission. Therefore, a wiser answer would be "Free will."

[pyradonis]

Jan 29, 2018 11:35:54 GMT Jelly Jellybean said:

This montage shows Coyote asking and Ysengrin responding in the same manner before and after Ysengrin obtained his tree form.  Ysengrin may think his tree form is strong, but he doesn't think it is Coyote's strength no matter how many times Coyote picks his brain.

Indeed both Coyote and Ysengrin have described it as "power over the trees of Gillitie". Ysengrin shaped the tree armor in an anthropomorphic form himself (of course we don't know whether it was actually his idea).
However, I wonder why Ysengrin thinks his own strength is not enough to show the humans how weak they really are. It reminds me of the three Ysengrins. Which one is which?

Jan 26, 2018 8:08:43 GMT arf said:

Your strength.
Your strength.
Your strength.
Your strength.
... this went on for some time.

Indeed...

[Zox Tomana]

Jan 29, 2018 13:12:12 GMT pyradonis said:

However, I wonder why Ysengrin thinks his own strength is not enough to show the humans how weak they really are.

As I recall, neither Reynard nor Ysengrin have powers of their own. Like Coyote, they are immortal incarnations of myth (by the Big Secret), but unlike Coyote their respective myths don't involve them being gods or having powers like Coyote. Reynard is a trickster in folk legend, but it's his cunning that gets him by, not shapeshifting (as far as I know).

[ctso74]

Apparently, Coyote is a nibbler.
What if the price of having Coyote's "strength", is having the memory of what you want to do with it erased?

[autumnrook]

I wonder if this is a cycle that Coyote is dependent upon. He asks what Ysengrin wants, Ysengrin envisions Coyote's strength, Coyote takes that memory and it actually becomes part of his strength (he's being fed by Ysengrin's belief). He then uses a bit of that strength to help Ysengrin, thereby building up Ysengrin's belief in Coyote's strength even further. Because of this, each memory that Coyote eats give him greater strength than the one before.

[blazingstar]

Maybe all this is a test of Ysengrin's loyalty. He performs the test every once in awhile just to make sure his answer hasn't changed. 

Jan 28, 2018 6:12:21 GMT faiiry said:

Maybe Coyote saves these memories and asks the same question over and over simply because he's stroking his own ego. He's removing and storing dozens of memories of Ysengrin telling him how awesome his strength is. That seems like a very vain thing to do, not necessarily a purely sinister one.

Coyote loving to hear how great he is for the sake of ego is another possibility.

[Nepycros]

I'm growing more concerned by day. My earlier speculation that Coyote is accumulating a "critical mass" of misanthropy may lead to Ysengrin being... unstable the moment it's all given back. All his hatred allowed to fester like a wound just enough that Coyote can scrape out a good portion for safekeeping.

[tc]

I don't think Coyote intends to give those memories back until (or, indeed, unless) Ysengrin becomes more accepting of humans. Remember this page and the chapter containing it?

www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1073

Presuming this is one of those occasions where Coyote is being honest, he says that beings such as himself, Ysengrin and the fae *need* humans in order to cling on to existence. This being the case, preventing Ysengrin from accessing too much power (and removing the memories of those occasions where Ysengrin asked) is both an act of self-preservation on Coyote's part, and an arguably necessary means of protecting the inhabitants of Gillitie, including Ysengrin himself...

[AluK]

Coyote is all about teaching lessons through twisted means, so I feel that what's happening here is that Ys has been giving the wrong answer for a really, really long time. Removing his memory of answering means the answer will only change if he actually changes.

[arf]

David Brin's short uplift story "Temptation" has a similar situation. A powerful trickster race offer individuals the chance to enter their own micro Universe, but wipe the memory of any who refuse so they can be asked again.

[pyradonis]

Jan 29, 2018 14:13:02 GMT Zox Tomana said:

Jan 29, 2018 13:12:12 GMT pyradonis said:

However, I wonder why Ysengrin thinks his own strength is not enough to show the humans how weak they really are.

As I recall, neither Reynard nor Ysengrin have powers of their own. Like Coyote, they are immortal incarnations of myth (by the Big Secret), but unlike Coyote their respective myths don't involve them being gods or having powers like Coyote. Reynard is a trickster in folk legend, but it's his cunning that gets him by, not shapeshifting (as far as I know).

Fair enough. However, Ysengrin was the general of an army of monsters even before he got his tree body, so he must be (or must have been) an exceptionally strong and powerful wolf. But if he believes he needs the strenght of an actual God to "show the humans how weak they really are", what is his Definition of weak in this case?

[netherdan]

Nothing is black and white. I was hating Coyote for messing with Ysengrin's mind but now I realize they're trying to sorta change Ysengrin's opinion on humanity?
I guess if he asked for something else or said it would use this strength to help humans he would be allowed to keep this memory or even be granted the power?

[Per]

"Ysengrin, if you could have one of my powers, which would you choose?"

"Your ability to build scale models with toothpicks."

"Aha! What would you do with my ability to build scale models with toothpicks?"

"... I would show the humans how weak they truly are."

*picks memory*